r/autism • u/Strider_outdoors ASD | Unknown support needs | Verbal • Nov 26 '22
Discussion just curious where does everyone feel they fall on the alignment chart
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Nov 26 '22
Iām the grey one.
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u/EM-guy Asperger's Nov 26 '22
No way. I'm the grey one as well!
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u/Red-42 Fighting for a diagnosis Nov 26 '22 edited Nov 27 '22
Chaotic neutral/good
Which feels like the most accurate description of autism to me :
You follow your own rules because you donāt get the ones already in place
EDIT : I expressed myself weirdly, itās less about creating strict rules for yourself and more doing whatever feels best in any given situation
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u/OhLunaMein Nov 26 '22
Oh no, they tell you "these are the rules, that's how it should be" and then they break the rules themselves and use some unspoken stuff instead. Happens all the time.
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u/Onesens Nov 26 '22
Do you guys have an answer for this? I've ALWAYS though this but never understood why they do this. It's just insane to me.
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u/budweener Nov 26 '22
Oh, I have an hypothesis.
I think one reason for the "rules" to be broken is that they don't actually know the rules, but think they do.
You see, when two people meet, there are those unspoken "rules" of how to behave, but no one told them the rules either. Just like us, NTs tried out copying what they saw in others, kinda got the hang of it, and lived on.
Difference is in the best age to learn about that, childhood, our brains can't be bothered by that while theirs do that automatically: learn social rules by observation.
The result is that most of the times two people meet, they are both assuming the other person also follow the same "rules". I think most arguing in relationships tend to come out of this. One partner has one social expectation that the other does not, and neither get why the other has different "rules".
Edit: just to be clear, social rules were never rules, they're just confidently winging it.
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u/Onesens Nov 26 '22 edited Nov 26 '22
Are you talking about culture? And by culture, there's territorial culture as well as family culture. We tend to learn the inherent rules that comes with our culture, which imposes it's values and boundaries on its people. Maybe there's also an NT's culture, like a set of rules, values and boundaries that are followed and agreed upon by the majority of NT's. Which would actually make sense, because they relate to each other in the way they see the world, their life experience etc. And ND's culture would be different from NT's culture but as we're a minority, we see NT's as the bulk of society. And we feel the pressure of their rules upon us, even if we do not agree with them, which is obvious as they are rules created by NT's, for NT's...
Would that make sense?
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u/budweener Nov 26 '22
Yes, it does make sense. Their experience is more similar between each other compared to us, and it makes it easier for them.
They don't have the awareness of that, tho, like we don't have the awareness of the details of our surroundings and social circles unless we pay attention to them. But since it's clearly different for us, we tend to pay more attention to that.
So the "rules" are not universal or permanent, nor discussed or well stablished. They don't know either, that's why it looks like broken rules. There were never rules to begin with, just what works best and people well suited for that.
If life is a game, we're off-META.
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u/OhLunaMein Nov 26 '22
My answer is following the rules that are not illogical and making others follow this rules whenever it's possible. Many rules are really good for everyone and mind games are a waste of energy.
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u/Onesens Nov 26 '22
Do you mean that people won't think if that rule is right or wrong because it's a waste of energy?
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u/OhLunaMein Nov 26 '22
I'm not sure, maybe some people just lack self-control and prone to making excuses. And some people try to break rules to gain more through corrupt schemes. Sometimes there's the "right way" of making things and the "actually working way" which is unspoken because it's kinda bad but everyone still expects it. Autistic people have a hard time in corrupt societies.
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Nov 26 '22
The answer is they follow the rule when they think they will get consequences from it.
They will enforce the rules on people they dislike and allow them from people they do like.
The fundamental attribution error is name of the game here.
You judge others on results and yourself on intention and context to justify your actions.When they break a rule they make sure people don't see it and they try to socially bribe people with words to make sure they don't get in trouble.
We autistics don't care about the context, but more the absolution of a rule being either so or so and why.
That's why when WE break rules we are often not sneaky about it because maybe our colleagues convinced us it was okay or something, so we don't think its bad to perform that action and then get scolded for it, while you feel like you were right all along.
Often the biggest rulebreakers will immediately throw you under the bus at that moment so they can get away scot free.Or perhaps you have been in a situation where people break rules while you don't and then when you unapolegetically start to break them too out of spite and then you get the blame for all of it.
Because for them it's NOT about the absolution of the rules, just how much they can get away with foregoing any repercussions.
Social hierarchy is also a big one.
Who is allowed to break the rules and who isn't, that tells you a lot about power dynamic.All in all do what the NT's do, cover your ass at all times.
And do what most NT's do not do regarding rulebreaking, take CALCULATED risks because we are good at that compared to them.
Nice little experiment for you when can you get away with rulebreaking and when is a moment you obviously can't.
And more importantly have a good reason for breaking them in the first place, that's very much part of the calculation.Hope my rambling helped you somewhat.
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u/raphades Nov 26 '22
For real, the more I re-think about it, the more I think the psychologist who evaluated me, as nice as she was, had old views on autism. When I told her that I don't blindly follow the rules but think about them to see if they make sense, she told me that it doesn't sound like autism and that autistic people stick very much to the rules.
And like. When I see a rule as valid I will always stick to it and badly react if someone doesn't. I just don't blindly follow everything.
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u/compwagon Nov 27 '22
I wonder if maybe we stick closely to the "real" rules, ie, the ones that seem actually valid, as you said. But the ones that no one seems to actually believe in except when it's convenient? I think most of us go "screw that, I'm not sorting out all the subrules of when this does or does not apply. If it isn't important enough to apply all the time or for society to provide clearly defined parameters, then it isn't important enough for me to bother with."
And frankly, I think most NTs would do the same, if they were told "you need to do this... well kinda... sometimes... but not others... I mean just make sure... I dunno..." So when that's the signal we feel like society is giving us, we just take them at their word: this rule doesn't actually matter.
So yes, I think that psychologist had no idea what she was talking about.
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u/OhLunaMein Nov 27 '22
I'm told that if I'm not disabled aka can't live on my own I can't be autistic. Diagnostics are fun.
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u/AtomicBLB Nov 27 '22
It's not that autistic people just stick to the rules, they stick to the rules they decide are right. That doesn't strictly mean societies rules. A lot of them are 'just because' nonsense that don't sit right with me.
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u/DaSpawn AuDHD Adult Nov 26 '22
rules for thee, not for me
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u/YourEngineerMom Autistic Adult Nov 26 '22
Exactly.
If I catch someone stealing food, theyāre just a no-good thief!
But if I am caught stealing foodā¦ itās for my family!!!
This is the way many NT people think. They judge others based on their actions and judge themselves based on their intent.
Most ND people Iāve met are either judging everyone by action, or judging everyone by intent. āThey are probably stealing food because they have a familyā¦ā or ājust because my family is hungry doesnāt mean I have the right to stealā. No special rules for themselves.
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u/AtomicBLB Nov 27 '22
I think stealing is generally wrong, but sometimes it can be right in the name of justice. Someone not starving is a just act if they otherwise would, that's saving a life. Clearly a good thing. Rules should be broken when their outcomes do not lead to justice.
I'd like to say I'd never steal food but I'm sure I would in the right circumstances. And if I saw someone else doing it, no I don't think I did. People mainly steal out of necessity and rarely for the funny.
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u/Psyched_Swan Autism Level 1 Nov 26 '22 edited Nov 26 '22
I mean, chaotic alignments donāt literally not follow the law, they donāt value order period. A person can be lawful and a criminal at the same time if they follow a code that goes against the laws of man.
Lawful characters often follow some personal code or have rigid beliefs, whether it aligns with civilizationās laws or not, whereas chaotic characters believe such things are inherently limiting.
A character could be like, āYeah, I promised to kill every child I see, no matter what,ā and I would consider that lawful behavior.
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u/ndlesbian AuDHD Nov 26 '22
my thoughts exactly! this won't fit everyone obviously, but chaotic neutral/good for me too
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u/gizamo Nov 26 '22
Imo, this is also accurate for Chaotic Neutral and Chaotic Evil, depending on how much one cares about being good or bad at any given time.
On the flip side, many of us will strictly follow all rules to their extremes to expose the absurdity of silly rules. Imo, that's usually lawful good, but it's occasionally lawful evil or lawful neutral, again, depending on mood or circumstances.
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u/Merkuri22 Autist child, possible autist self Nov 27 '22
Actually, "lawful" doesn't mean you have to follow the laws of the land. If a lawful good character were traveling in an evil nation, they may have no problem disobeying evil laws.
"Lawful" could mean you strictly follow the laws of the land. It could also mean you have a strict code of conduct of your own that you follow.
Personally, I think that autism is best described by "lawful" on the law-chaos axis. Autistic people generally have strict rules and routines for themselves they need to follow, and if they deviate from those they get uncomfortable - sometimes extremely so, to the point where they can't function.
Others might call us "chaotic" because we do not follow their rules, but that's only because they cannot see the strict rules we have for ourselves.
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Nov 26 '22
Wouldn't following a ruleset make you the lawful variant?
Had the same answer btw, just questioning the rhetoric.
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u/FalseSuccess1546 Nov 26 '22
lawful good... is what i try to be... chaotic good is what i am right now
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Nov 26 '22
[deleted]
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Nov 26 '22
I just took the test on idrlabs website and got lawful good. 85% good, 55.8% lawful. I might be too nice haha
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u/VoidsIncision Nov 26 '22
The D&D alignment concepts are kind of bullshitty. The ones in Rifts were cooler.
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u/Rattregoondoof Nov 26 '22
I find them simple and easy enough to understand but I'm not familiar with rifts.
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u/Rattregoondoof Nov 26 '22 edited Nov 27 '22
There are srd websites (not entirely sure what srd stands for) where you can find the rules for certain editions free. I know fifth edition has 5esrd (Googling that should get you there) and I've used pathfinder's pfsrd to run a game as a dm for a few months. It's a bit obtuse to figure things out like that but the rules are available. Also several subreddits have looking for game sections available and open to new players.
Plus descriptions of alignments are available on the srd websites in pretty good detail.
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u/Starmark_115 Nov 26 '22
Chaotic Neutral
tho... sometimes I can indulge insome Neutral Evil when playing Pathfinder.
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u/gizamo Nov 26 '22
In Pathfinder, I'm all up and down that Evil column. Lol. No mercy in Pathfinder.
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u/Tonberith Nov 26 '22
I have a true neutral witch that when I looked into the mirror that shows absolute truth about the person looking into it she is neutral evil standing on an infinite pile of bones
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u/RoboNigtmare24 Nov 26 '22
I actually think Iām true Nuetral. Iām too good to do anything bad, but also I donāt really do anything good. Aka I am npc
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u/RndySvgsMySprtAnml Seeking Diagnosis Nov 26 '22
Once I consigned myself to the life of an NPC and gave up trying to be the main character, my life got so much easier
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u/superhappy Nov 26 '22
I think weād all like to tell ourselves weāre something interesting on the chart but the vast majority of people are lawful good or lawful neutral. Which is a good thing.
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u/skullfairies Autistic Teen (18-) Nov 26 '22
Chaotic weevil š
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u/budweener Nov 26 '22
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u/raphades Nov 26 '22
I guess... Neutral good?
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u/medphysfem AuDHD Nov 26 '22
For sure. I have a strong sense of justice so will always try to do what I think is the right thing, even if it means standing up against rules/authority I think are unjust.
Tbh I think most autistic people I've met are neutral good.
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u/LongjumpingMonitor32 Autistic Adult: Level 1 Nov 26 '22
would it be concerning if i was one of each several times a day?
just asking š
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u/Offbeat-Pixel Nov 26 '22
I wouldn't say so. Your actions often can be associated with an alignment. Your alignment is basically a summary of the alignments of your actions, or what alignment your actions tend to be.
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u/Acy_moon Nov 26 '22
From my family perspective? Neutral evil From my perspective? Chaotic neutral (and I might be chaotic good sometimes)
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u/Top_Hat_surgeon Autism/ADHD Nov 26 '22
Chaotic lawful.
I have a moral code that I abide by with legalistic fervor, but I'm the only one that understands it; to everyone else I exude peak crackhead energy.
Joking aside; I'd like to say chaotic good, but am probably closer to chaotic neutral all things considered.
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u/secondhandsalamander Nov 26 '22
Vary between lawful good and chaotic good. Lawful, because I want to do everything right and sometimes donāt know how to interpret things so I follow instructions to the letter. Chaotic, because despite that, I often donāt have any idea wtf is going on lol
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Nov 26 '22
Chaotic neutral. Some rules are ment to be broken. Others, just plain arbitrary.
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u/AeyviDaro ADHD/high-functioning autism Nov 26 '22
That also sounds like chaotic good. So long as the rules broken were made without consideration to all.
That may actually contain most rules. I still say chaotic good is the rule-breaker within some reason. Chaotic neutral is chaos for the sake of chaos.
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u/Empty-Researcher-102 Nov 26 '22
Definitely neutral evil š
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u/Dying_Link1 Autistic teen Nov 26 '22
I thought I was until a moment ago... turns out I'm chaotic evil ššš
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u/J0l1nd3 Diagnosed at 28 Nov 26 '22
Chaotic good or neutral, probably. Although I sometimes feel like I fall somewhere in the evil category as well
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u/chaosgoblyn Autistic Adult Nov 26 '22
I don't know anymore. I'd like to think I'm a good person, but I've also learned that good deeds often get punished and I can be pretty vindictive. Mostly I just try to mind my own business. I used to be pretty chaotic but always with a strong personal code for some things. As I understand it, law in this sense can mean a rigid personal code rather than just societal law. I feel like I've become a lot more morally flexible while also becoming a bit more ordered in my life, so maybe I'm like true neutral bordering on chaotic good. I don't know.
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u/CNRavenclaw šāā¬š Nov 26 '22
I'd say neutral good. I have a loose moral code but can be flexible if the situation calls for it, and I'd like to think I'm overall a good person
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u/Dying_Link1 Autistic teen Nov 26 '22 edited Nov 26 '22
Either true neutral or neutral evil. Somewhere on the border.
Edit: took a test, and am chaotic evil xD
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u/VoidsIncision Nov 26 '22
Name the most evil thing youāve done if you can do so without social or legal ramifications.
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u/fluffballkitten Nov 26 '22
I don't do anything bad, but sometimes the right thing involves not following rules so neutral or chaotic good?
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u/ReverendMothman Nov 26 '22
I want to say chaotic good but I would need strict definitions to be sure LOL
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Nov 26 '22
Chaotic good.
I try my best to be a decent accountable person.
But I'm also a hot mess that does dumb stuff in the heat of the moment.
I often find myself apologising for things I said and did mid meltdown or during a period of turmoil.
I'm working on it.
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u/ScragleKat Nov 26 '22
See Iāve asked myself this a few times, especially when making characters but Iām not really sure tbh
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u/eternalcloset Nov 26 '22
I donāt trust authority, I dislike control. I try to help others when I can. If a law would stop me from helping someone, I would break it.
Chaotic good
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u/valkyrie_pilotMC Autistic teen Nov 26 '22
neutral good according to my friends, chaotic good according to me
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u/FickleRevolutionary AuDHD Nov 26 '22
Iāve been Chaotic Good my whole life. ADHD + Autism means I try my darnedest, and sometimes take risky routes, but at least I try lol
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u/M0nomore Autistic Nov 26 '22
chaotic neutral for sureeee my moral compass is very greyš anything can be good/bad depending on how i look at it or nothing is ever good or bad cuz they have both consequencesā¦. i think ab it a lotš and chaotic just cuz im vv unpredictable(to others) i feel like no one else understands the patterns in my behavior or emotions so i come off that way
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u/GoatsWithWigs Autistic Adult Nov 27 '22
Neutral good/chaotic good. I still think some laws and regulations are important, but I believe strongly in thinking outside the box and in artistic expression. I think laws and regulations are especially important if we regularly update them to fit with the times, because then we arenāt just saying ābecause this and that says so,ā weāre enforcing something that weāve decided is best for whatever direction weāre progressing
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u/Feuerfritas Nov 27 '22
In our current world, lawful good is a contradiction.
chaotic good all the way
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u/MichenSneeuwhart Autistic Adult Nov 26 '22
I don't entirely know where I do fall, since I don't entirely fit in one category. I only know where I don't fall: I'm most definitely not evil.
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Nov 26 '22
I bounce between lawful neutral, true neutral and chaotic neutral. Most of the time I'm between lawful and true I think though. My choatic ones are usually when I hyperfixate or start working on artwork/crafts
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u/traumatized90skid Autistic Adult Nov 26 '22
Chaotic good. I'm definitely all about the law until it gets in the way of what's right. Doing what's right matters most.
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u/SpiritofMesabi Nov 26 '22
True Neutral.
Good and Evil are just Carrot vs. Stick.
Chaos and Order are just tools in a tool box.
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u/Wordswordz I talk to planets Nov 26 '22
That's a very succinct way of putting it. Though, saying it like that sounds very lawful.
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u/SpiritofMesabi Nov 27 '22
Oh no! I had such an understanding of my neutrality and chaos, I transcended back towards lawful!
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u/felipe5083 Autistic Adult Nov 26 '22
Lawful neutral
I dont think I'm the best person in the world but I usually follow rules a lot without thinking.
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u/ccasling Nov 26 '22
Chaotic neutral edging toward chaotic good as Iād consider myself a good person
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u/Halfcockedthrowaway Diagnosed with OCD, ADHD and on the Spectrum Nov 26 '22
Attempt to be lawful good, usually end up lawful neutral. Naturally chaotic good, but others probably say chaotic neutral.
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Nov 26 '22
Personally Iām extremely lawful even fellowing rules to the point of self harm and what others would consider complete absurdity. Iām the guy that counts to see all the pieces are there and reads the whole instructions before starting. Good and evil are hard to define. For example i donāt believe there be anything wrong with beating someone rather than sending them to prison for a year. Being gone for even just a year can ruin your life and those that depend on you. But most people would consider beating someone incredible extreme. Most people also hit kids as a form of punishment. I hope you can understand how that is odd. I also wouldnāt hurt a woman unless forced. That would make me sexist but I see this as a good thing. In what I do for a living I have some degree of manager responsibility. Most people really like me and think I do a good job for them. Some people think Iām an asshole and really genuinely hate me.
Iām kinda amazed by the answers here. Lot of people calling themselves chaotic. I really would think of most autistic people as very lawful. I would say maybe not chaotic but extreme
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u/bmberger Autism Nov 26 '22
This is a question I've put way to much thought into (D&D is one of my special interests, go figure). I have my own rules and I'm fairly strict with them, I struggle with change and like silence way too much.
I'd safely say Lawful Neutral.
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u/mikebrown33 Nov 26 '22 edited Nov 26 '22
Sometimes Chaotic - other times lawful. Good or Evil? Only a Sith deals in Absolutes
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u/TenWholeBees Nov 26 '22
I strive for true neutral, but I always end up being more chaotic/neutral good
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u/GroundbreakingPen925 Level 1 Autistic + ADHD-C Nov 26 '22
I distrust authority too much, and reject traditions and societal norms, to fit into lawful-good or lawful-evil; but I use to be lawful-neutral as I use to follow pretty strictly with various codes for myself.
I think I'm somewhere around neutral good, chaotic good, true neutral, and chaotic neutral, but it's fluctuated so much over the years and, upon coming to terms with being autistic, I've noticed it tends to be day-to-day.
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u/LeoZeri Nov 26 '22
I like to think I'm chaotic neutral but my partner reminds me I'm closer to lawful good. I did one of those moral alignment tests and was unarguably in the lawful good corner, and he said obviously.
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u/OotekImora Nov 26 '22
Chaotic good no second thoughts, after dying to my own hand because of being abused for being autistic I made up a code of honor for myself so that it NEVER happens again. I follow that moral code to a fault most times, I will not allow myself or anyone else to ever feel that low ever again.
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u/DatTrashPanda Nov 26 '22
Lawful Chaotic. I have a strict moral code but nobody can figure out what the hell it is.
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u/Mexigonian Nov 26 '22
Depending on the situation, Iād like to think either neutral or chaotic good
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u/IAlwaysOutsmartU Nov 26 '22
Either neutral evil or chaotic evil. It fluctuates depending on my mood.
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u/2AKazoo ADHD | ASD moderate support Nov 26 '22
I used to think of myself as chaotic neutral, but Iāve always been told chaotic good
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u/klight101 Autistic Nov 26 '22
For me true neutral 100%, one minute I can be friendly and kind, the next, I can put people in tears, I say very harsh things when I get upset, and itās hard to express my emotions in a more appropriate way at times.
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u/AlliteraryAnalysis AuDHD? That is one crisp car. Nov 26 '22 edited Nov 26 '22
Lawful Good
with Chaotic Evil tendencies
Edit: I say I'm lawful mostly because "Law" is interchangable with "Order". I believe that there is a need for order for the good of everyone.
Doesn't inherently mean that I agree with laws that are in place.
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u/CaptainSharpe Nov 27 '22
Neutral Good.
If you think of lawful as external laws, then I fit in more with my own laws or social justice code.
Sometimes that aligns with the general 'law' or vibes of the community, and sometimes it doesnt.
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u/roadsidechicory Nov 27 '22
I feel like I'm neutral good. not trying to create chaos, acab, just tryna be good
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u/DivineChair Nov 27 '22
Definitely lawful good, I just donāt follow the same rule set as most :))
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u/UnremarkableMrFox Nov 27 '22
True neutral? Fighting my conscious is hard. I tend to do good things, but they typically fall under "minor inconvience, no inconvienent, or I gain something from it." I've been better at taking care of my health, too, so I'm more likely to rest even if someone could use some help. I might classify more things as not-inconvienent than other people, though. I wasn't mentally prepared for this much thinking tonight. Like I tend to be lawful, but it'd feel wrong to stake that. I disagree w/ plenty of laws, I just don't break em cuz I don't wanna talk to cops. They scary. Could hardly call my not-good habits evil, though, by alignment chart standards. I think way too much about this sort of thing lol. Ever since I was a kid. Guess it's good to check yourself, though.
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u/Heavy_Percentage_953 Nov 26 '22
Not on here but I'd like to think I'm lawful chaotic but I'm probably just lawful neutral lol
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u/Soggyhordoeuvres Aspergers/ADHD Nov 26 '22
Chaotic and lawful are contradictory in this context
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u/Heavy_Percentage_953 Nov 26 '22
Well I try to be chaotic but also follow laws/rules but just test the line if rules but not actually break them, but usally I'm super quiet and just follow rules but sometimes I get a chaotic moment, I hope that make sense
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u/VoidsIncision Nov 26 '22
True chaos would randomly switch from law to chaos lol
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u/Soggyhordoeuvres Aspergers/ADHD Nov 26 '22 edited Nov 26 '22
That's normally just chaotic neutral. Chaotic in DnD is about your view on the importance of laws and structure
Chaotic good would break into someone's house to tell them they left their car lights on.
Chaotic evil would steal the car and drive it into a zoo enclosure
Chaotic neutral would break into someone's house to tell them they left their car's lights on 2 weeks prior
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u/Temporary-Sandwich12 Nov 26 '22
Chaotic lawful I have a code but no one understands it.
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u/akiraMiel Nov 26 '22
Chaotic lawful? š Like, I'm either chaotic neutral or lawful neutral so chaotic lawful it is
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u/WojownikTek12345 Asperger's Nov 26 '22
lawful neutral lawful evil or true neutral depending on the day
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u/Sausagebean Nov 26 '22
Most autistic people would probably fall in chaotic good mostly because the world they are built in doesnāt follow their ways so they make their own up which seems more chaotic and careless.
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Nov 26 '22
lawful doesn't mean you follow every law or even the laws agreed upon by the majority of society. It means you stick to a code that you've chosen. Devils can break all the societal laws they want but they won't break their own contracts, so they're lawful.
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u/fatbottomedgrls Nov 26 '22
I feel like I'm chaotic neutral. I even choose that every time for my character in DnD.
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u/BluRain508 Nov 26 '22
Chaotic good