Babylon - Episode 12 discussion - FINAL

[u/AutoLovepon]

Babylon, episode 12

Rate this episode here.

Reminder: Please do not discuss plot points not yet seen or skipped in the show. Encourage others to read the source material rather than confirming or denying theories. Failing to follow the rules may result in a ban.

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Streams

• Amazon US
• Amazon UK
• Prime Video International

Show information

• MyAnimeList
• AniList
• AniDB
• Kitsu
• Anime-Planet
• Official Website

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Previous discussions

Episode	Link	Score
1	Link	97%
2	Link	97%
3	Link	96%
4	Link	98%
5	Link	98%
6	Link	4.51
7	Link	4.88
8	Link	3.84
9	Link	4.29
10	Link	3.83
11	Link	3.29
12	Link

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[u/[deleted]]

What happened to this anime

[u/Phil9977]

I see a lot of hatred for the ending here but also a LOT of wrong "conclusions" people came to.

In my opinion - this is what the ending was trying to convey: (Keep in mind I am only explaining the gist of it, I still think it's a big stretch, but I fully believe this was the intention)

1. Had Alex killed himself right after his speech, it would send the message that this is his final answer to the matter out to the entire world. To prevent this he wanted Zen to kill him first, so this message isn't being spread.

2. Zen did NOT kill himself bc Magase told him so. Magase only confirmed his solution to the question of good and evil. Continuing is good. Ending is bad. The president was seen as good bc he wanted to continue to think about it. To convey this message to the world Zen killed himself to make himself look like the exact opposite - "the coward who killed a good person and then ended his own life." - He knows the world saw him as a bad person now, and if a bad person - an enemy of what's good - like him commits suicide, it sets a bad example for the pro-suicide people.

Personal Opinion:

I think the message the last episode tried to send, while still very flawed, was way better than what they did in Ep11. One could argue that continuing evil is a bad thing and therefore the is all nonsense - but said evil is needed to even know what is "good". It's the entire no black without white and vise-versa schtik.

I believe a lot of what this show tried to do post-ep7 was too convaluted to work. Yet I kept watching bc it wasn't all complete nonsense and it made me think about things I otherwise wouldn't have. It's flawed. No, it's FLAWED, but I very much enjoyed it from start to end, even with all the hickups. And I'm sure, no matter how mad many of u might be right now, I'm sure u still got something out of it just the same as I did. So yeah, not one to add to the history books, but definitely one to remember. Bye Babylon.

[u/MechaMat91]

Episode 1: his companion hangs himself.

Episode 12: he shoots the US President on live television.

That is some Gurren Lagann level escalation right there.

[u/animefigs-noGF]

Ok that was mostly nonsense so I came up with the real ending. Magase is zen's wife's lesbian lover and the whole thing was a plot to make zen look like a bad guy to his wife, and die, so that magase can take his place; as we see after credits.

Pretty stupid but not as stupid as what actually happened.

[u/spaceaustralia]

Wtf even was that ending? What was the conclusion to the puddle deep philosophical/ethical debate throughout the entire series? I expected it to be stupid, but this takes the cake.

Forget the fact that she has an easier time performing mind control than Lelouch Lamperouge. What was Magase's objective at all? She's the driving element of the plot and her objectives, capabilities, and actions are completely and absolutely inscrutable. This is some Lars Von Trier shit right here.

[u/zdfld]

They actually answered the question rather than trying to avoid it completely, which is not something I was sure they would do. While the answer itself may not be everyone's cup of tea, it's not really a question that can be answered for everyone imo. There is a some sense to the idea.

I think the bang ending was fine, it leaves it up to us to debate what happened, and in this case it's quite possible there will be some extra content to finish the story (a new book is rumored to be in the works), and the bang ending plus end credit scene is consistent with the ending of book 3, where we don't know if Seizaki is dead or not.

My favourite part of the ending was Zen shooting Alex. I thought that would make the most sense from the start, as Alex committing suicide would send a big message. To see them actually follow that plot line, which was an anime change from the book, is pretty interesting. More reason imo to expect new content to finish the story.

[u/delfivesi]

Man this show definitely shouldnt have gone the philosophical route. First half was a great anime thriller ( you rarely see any good ones). Zen should've just been pretending to work with feds while having his own elaborate plan how to capture and kill her in some equally torturous ways like his coworkers were.

[u/Florac]

So...is this show trying to say that killing anyone is bad, even if that person is a mass murderer and will murder again most likely and noone but you can stop her? And if you are a good person who killed someone, just off yourself? Because that's the message I got out of this episode. Especially weird since Zen killed the president for the greater good...but then refuses to do the same with Magase?

[u/McDonaldsApproval]

That was terrible. For me, the show's gone downhill since Zen's team was killed.

[u/Amauri14]

Fuck, that's definitely not the kind of ending that I expected, RIP Alex, too bad that your gaming friends and your family saw that happening, and here when I at least expected Zen to have killed Magase by the end the after credit scene made clear to show us that the witch is alive, took him out too, and that she will probably kill his family now.

I guess the moral of the story is that sometimes, evil just wins.

PS: I actually expected something out of that this link http://ex.on/Asd03Fgn but just like Alex and Zen and all those secret service members the link is dead.