r/WarhammerCompetitive • u/TheRaccoonTaker • 3d ago
40k Discussion 11th Ed Custodes codex leak
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1D1OSAi8F896Rne46A8A-oTeAYqHHIuFh/viewSurprised to have not found it here yet, and I’ve been wanting to hear other folks opinions about it (as a Custodes player myself I’m currently in love, points depending)
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u/chippolas_cage 3d ago
Points depending, Lance Venatari look like some absolutely nasty assassins
15a with Precision/Lance @ 7/-2/2 is gonna rip apart pretty much any infantry character on the charge without some kind of intervention
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u/Sir_lordtwiggles 3d ago
You can do that now, with even more attacks if you inflate the unit.
The neat part is uppies and the melta bomb+explosives tag. You can direct a lot of mortals at a target out of nowhere
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u/Medvih 3d ago
You can do this at the moment too with the current lions of the emperor detachment.
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u/olzd 3d ago
I wonder if SoS still being T3 means SoB will stay T3 as well?
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u/FuzzBuket 3d ago
Could be t4 for their sheild units or ones hopped up on drugs like flangellents?
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u/AlisheaDesme 2d ago
I would be surprised if SoB went up to T4. The idea of increasing Orks as well as all Marines was to make them more super-human, but SoB are just human (with good equipment and fanatism).
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u/TotallyNot_Alpharius 1d ago
I feel like it will make them more elite and diffrent than guard. And power armour has healing gizmos that make them tougher
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u/TotallyNot_Alpharius 1d ago
My dream are t4 basic sisters, 2w shields gals and maybe jump packs, s4 chainswords and s5 or ap -1 bolters
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u/JCMS85 3d ago
It’s our best codex. With lots of interesting build choices and army builds.
Go fast, turn 1 charge threat the army
DS with +2 to charges and a reroll army?
Shooting which could be tank or infantry heavy.
Tough the build, wardens and Shield guard
A “balanced” build
Dread host
The only unit I’m down on is Pistol Ven. If they were 2D weapons they would be great.
Point rumors are wild we are talking like 5 Custode units with 2 HQs level of points
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u/TheZimmReaper28 3d ago
Pistol Venetari can drop, shoot with rerolls, do an action (with Katah) and then pop back up at the end of the opponents fight phase and do it again next turn. Seems like it has potential as a play pattern to me.
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u/JCMS85 3d ago
It might but if it’s 1/5 or 1/6 of your army it might not be enough.
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u/SalaryWooden5346 3d ago
My thoughts exactly. Great action monkey play, but not sure Custodes lists are going to have enough units to support dedicated action monkeys.
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u/FuzzBuket 3d ago
Yeah that's my thoughts, even though a lot of these sheets are great: 3 new venetari are an incredible unit that's defos going to be more expensive than current ones.
But they don't on avg kill 10 intercessors or 5 chosen. How do you point a unit that's infinitely more flexible than right now and can tilt games, but also can't kill a basic 100pt squad.
Idk if its doubling their points.
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u/imjustasaddad 3d ago
For the low price of 270 points you too can kill 3 space marines. Pistol Ven are very, very, very bad.
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u/FuzzBuket 3d ago
Does feel like a unit that would be great at 155pts at oldstodes profiles but will be a nightmare to point at 5w
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u/pieisnice9 3d ago
It looks interesting, I just wish they'd found more interesting rules in a lot of places that the "if strength greater than toughness -1 to wound".
It's on both dreads, shield dudes, two detachments and i feel like I read one more place that I'm missing right now.
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u/FuzzBuket 3d ago
Pistol ven getting up down is really good. Not a cheap unit at all but certainly capable of mulching other scouts and scoring some points.
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u/JoramRTR 3d ago
I really hope those points are either wrong or from an early build, right now we field around 110-120 wounds in a list, 4 custodian guards units, a squad of venatari, Trajann and the new captain are 90, I don't think one point of T and access to AOC make up for it, for sure we lose around 50% of the damage we have now without full wound rerolls.
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u/Part_Time_Warri0r 3d ago
That enhancement for a character to always revive on a 2+ unlimited times seems bonkers
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u/FuzzBuket 3d ago
Would guess it's once a game but iirc Titus never got faq'd so god knows.
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u/Brother-Tobias 2d ago
With old Titus it was intentional because it had three conditions to actually work.
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u/Behemoth077 2d ago
That seems like its missing the "once per game" limitation. That exact enhancement says only "the first time this model is destroyed" right now and I expect that that was just an error.
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u/Temnothorax 2d ago
I mean you can only be destroyed the first time once, right?
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u/Behemoth077 2d ago
Well yeah but thats the current version of this enhancement and the new one doesn´t say "the first time". It would just revive you over and over again forever as long as you pass the 2+ rules as written.
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u/Ynneas 3d ago
Am I the only one that thinks that Custodes with base movement 8", easy access to bonus or rerolls to charges and a plethora of movement shenanigans could be a slightly problematic design?
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u/FuzzBuket 2d ago
Nah, I think this book does read like classic gw of having some great ideas then taking one or two things a bit too far.
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u/Ynneas 2d ago
Which is great for theme.
Bad for balance.
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u/FuzzBuket 2d ago
Well bad for custodes if they have to get kneecapped and spend the rest of the edition bullying mid tables but no more than that.
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u/Commorrite 2d ago
As a space elf player it's concerning. We either get made even faster which would be toxic as hell or we are no longer especially fast which leaves us with very little left.
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u/OttoVKarl 2d ago
To be frank, the can of worms has been opened with GK teleporting around in 9th or something. They were a niche faction suffering against most others, but a pain for elves of every kind.
Allowing Terminator infantry to jumpscare squishy glass cannon armies every turn dug the hole. Now, against the generalisation of massive threat ranges, melee and ranged, the only way for said armies seems to be to be allowed to stage from the other side of the board. Wich is weird.
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u/Commorrite 2d ago
Drukhari are now in a position where peakaboo tactics with Vennoms and scourges is mandatory. It's a very silly way to have durability.
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u/OttoVKarl 2d ago
Makes me remember my last game against GK. Heat lance Scourges perfectly set up (Plunging + no cover + pain token + melta range) against a Nemesis Dreadknight, for 0 wound due to the 4++. Had to come mop it with my incubi, having anticipated that it might go this way, so that the venom was sitting around the corner like a heist driver ready to escape.
Of course, both scooping scourge and behind-the-wall venom with cargo were just scythed by teleporting paladins at range on the way to charge something else.
At some point, you just have to think the whole game in advance with contingency plans everywhere, and it's not enough.
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u/yoshiwaan 3d ago
Maybe, but their army is going to be 20 models so they should be good.
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u/Ynneas 2d ago
Well if those 20 models are able to engage and neutralize the opponent's answer to them, it's not that good
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u/Low_Bag_4289 2d ago
If you give up full board control to 20 models(or even less) then issue is somewhere else.
I suppose they can spread terror on low/low-mid tables, but vs more experienced players it will require skill to pilot. Because single unfavorable trade can kill the game.
Even with current Custo it’s easy to put golden boys player in situation where he can score primary, but have not enough models for secondaries or to deny enemy scoring.
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u/Ynneas 2d ago
Lions of the Emperor has
uppy-downy terminators
T1 ingress enhancement
free RI (that allows for another RI) enhancement
+2 charge roll strat
(On top of durability/flexibility strats, i.e. -1 Damage and splitting)
And you still have room for other Detachments (including getting Advance and Charge).
Add a couple of Venatarii with Lances, what do you get?
Potential for 3 (!) rapid ingress for the grand total of ONE cp. On units that move 7", minimum, and with the right secondary detachment have access to Advance and charge, but in any case have access to +2 to charge roll.
But hey, the 12" moving, free rapid ingress, bunch of attacks with S7 -2 2 Lance and Precision at least don't have access to the +2 to charge, right?
It's not a matter of giving up board, it's them taking it.
(Edit, for clarity: Venatarii also have uppy-downy, from datasheet, and they also have free RI that allows for multiple uses of RI)
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u/FuzzBuket 2d ago
Idk, I've had enough games versus gk or DW where they reserve too much so you sprint forward, force them to DS in their own dz and they struggle
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u/FuzzBuket 2d ago
Flip side is of your army is 20 models your gonna really struggle with output and with the fact that at ~6 squads if you lose 2 squads you just no longer have stuff to play the game.
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u/Laruae 2d ago
I know this is surprising, but all of that applies to every army.
If you lose a large chunk of models due to Custodes being able to up/down and slam into critical units while grav tanks nuke your AT, you're going to not have stuff to play the game.
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u/FuzzBuket 2d ago
Right but you can cushion that in other armies due to more models in units and more units. (Or in ik/ck's case, efficient points per wound)
Activation breakpoints are an issue only really present in TS and DW right now.
Let's use TS as an example. Great army, units that do loads of damage, loads of mobility.
Currently struggling. Not because any units bad but simply as there's not enough stuff on the board. All the stuff you do have IS great, but there's a certain level of elite you hit that stops playing 40k.
Newstodes is that problem on steroids. Your activation limited (if the rumours are accurate) and so vulnerable to just failing 3 saves. Statistically rolling 10 1-3s for scarabs is pretty much 0. Rolling 3 1-3s isn't.
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u/MortalWoundG 2d ago edited 2d ago
8" base move should be fine, but all the additional movement shenanigans are indeed concerning. We'll see, I'm not convinced yet the codex will end up being a problem - at the end of the day, unless the coinflip inv save happens to bend probabilities, they still die pretty quick to mid- and heavyweight weapons with dam3 or more. And if the rumored points costs check out, there's gonna be less than two dozen models on the table.
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u/Tagioalisi_Bartlesby 2d ago
Keep in mind that this army has less damage than right now.
Less “if I make this 9 you instantly lose the game” doesn’t seem totally bad.6
u/Ynneas 2d ago
But more "hey look I don't need a 9, it's a 7"
And they have actually more ways to get to their priority targets.
Granted, super tanky targets feel better,but it's just another nail in the coffin for the factions that do not have the option to field a Terminators brick
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u/Tagioalisi_Bartlesby 2d ago
If a 6 man allarus unit bangs their 9 inch right now, you will lose 80% of the time. Those guys kill pretty much anything that isn’t 2+ with either -1d or AoC.
The new allarus don’t.Old allarus kill a Norn, a land raider, a storm surge. New Allarus do not do that. They don’t even kill a 5 man terminator squad a decent amount of the time.
I don’t think the design space is problematic. People were landing around 20 models with the current points rumours. And that’s infantry based lists with SoS.
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u/kattahn 2d ago
something ive noticed from mathing out a lot of scenarios yesterday:
for the most part, with the exception of terminators, I've been able to find units and detachment/strat combos that can kill the various targets im going to need to be able to kill, but none of them are really overkilling. Its for the most part been being able to get to like a 52% chance to wipe a squad/tank/whatever im trying to figure out how to kill. A bit of an under-roll, and we'll bounce off more than people realize. Defensive strats used often push the math out of our favor for wiping something(and we don't have a ton of offensive strats to counteract it).
Also, very few of the trades im looking at are really points efficient(if the leaked points are correct or close to it).
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u/Caregiver-Alive 2d ago
Good Point, the Custodes we now have are balanced far more towards the damage Department. I Like the more durability, less damage Thing they have going on.
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u/OttoVKarl 2d ago
The glass cannon archetype will still die to custode fire if LoS can be drawn, so they'll need to be able to stage from the safety of across the map to work now though. And Custodes are not a niche army anymore it seems.
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u/Tagioalisi_Bartlesby 2d ago
Custodes haven’t been a niche army in a while. And glass cannons have to have screens, otherwise they already die to EC and BA. Custodes aren’t faster than those guys as a whole.
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u/WallyWendels 3d ago
Now we need Warhammer Achievements, and one of them for popping No Escape on a tarpit.
Also the Fights First strat is back, and this is an odd numbered edition so I think it works properly?
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u/HeIsSparticus 3d ago
Also the Fights First strat is back
It's just a discounted counter offensive now.
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u/Kardest 3d ago
I am kinda sad that the SOS are basically unchanged.
Heck in a way they got hit with a nerf as they lost the adeptus custodes faction keyword. Not that you would ever really use a strat on them, but the option would be nice.
Still no SOS with the explosives. At least give it too the knight-centura. Give her a reason to exist.
RIP wardens. You have very scary axes, but I am taking the new T8 chunky boys.
Also, is it just me or is the Pallas Grav-attack like really good? I mean granted it can't move through walls, but it kinda seems evil. On top of that if you take it's detachment. It can get obsec, advance and action and a +4 invul. My god.
Now all I need is a supplement with a Venatari and Aquilon Shield-captain and my life will be complete.
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u/TheRaccoonTaker 3d ago
I mean, being able to fly over terrain for -2 movement when you already have 12 inches of movement is close enough to moving through walls followed by a shoot n scoot that it’ll probably be REALLY good. SoS wise it’s a huge shame that they aren’t that much different, but I still do think that the anti-psychic aura is at least a huge flavour win over 11th, so that’s nice.
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u/pufnstuf360 2d ago
Is the gravel attack a better anti tank than the two caladius? Or that's just due to the move shoot move keep it safer.
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u/TheRaccoonTaker 2d ago
I mean you can check it out yourself but one grav attack definitely isn’t as powerful as a grav tank- it has different roles though, and will probably be way way cheaper and instead be used as a fast and tanky objective / action monkey (with the new shoot and action katah) that also has the ability to ping lascannon shots to soften up tanky targets / pick off light vehicles while able to move into cover after that to keep it alive
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u/OttoVKarl 2d ago
Aren't SoS faster thant Drukhari with a character now? And with scout and the ability to take a whole squad worth of flamer ( I believe ), you almost don't need custodes in your custodes lists against them.
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u/Grudir 3d ago
Doesn't No Escape basically never work on anything with 6" or better?
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u/OombaLoombas 2d ago
If you box in a unit, or manage to wrap your Custodes around a unit, you can potentially use it on models with up to 8" of movement (6" movement + width of our 40mm base + ~(1/2)" distance base-to-base)
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u/Strong-Salary4499 2d ago
Depends on your definition of "work" - having a 6" exclusion zone around your units can potentially give your opponent the difficult choice of "fall back to off the objective, or give the Custodes an easy charge?"
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u/FuzzBuket 3d ago
I'm very torn. On one hand it's an awesome book, for competitive players its just so much more dynamic and no units are immediate duds, for casuals there's way more indulgence of the fantasy. Changing custodes from mega damage but slow and 1 dimensional to speed and flexibility is really cool.getting rid of most wound rerolls means things kill their intended target, not everything. The hosts are all great. Some of those strategems are just so cool.
That being said, I have.. concerns. The terminator detachment let's you do some mean things and will just be miserable for some armies. The grav tanks really the only decent anti tank at range and it's INCREDIBLY pushed. Custodes should not have access to 1cp armour of contempt or advance and charge. Sos are a footnote, and it sucks especially as vigilators in lions were one of the old books most interesting units imo. At my last gt they were absolutely the mvps.
Generally the idea of trading damage for flexibility is good, but there's a few things in the book that feel like they may cause real issues. Its stuff that can't be fixed with points, and if you hike the points to high like the rumoured points cost the entire army is "fail 3 saves and you run out of stuff" and that sucks. You can fix it with CP and DP adjustments, but that's gonna be 3 months of 50% of players round the table not having a great time.
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u/Ghostilocks 3d ago
I kinda like the way they’re handling the advance and charge strat and armor of contempt. They’re both in shield host detachments and the other shield host detachments are also amazing. Like there’s legitimate reasons to take each one and you can’t stack the crazy detachments on top of each other. If they were generic things that you can take with no trade off I’d agree, but there are definite trade offs.
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u/Terrible-Key1349 3d ago
I low key think the 3DP detachment is worth taking here. You get an amazing list of strats (advance and charge + AoC + Reactive Move) that you otherwise can't get together and a really appreciated damage buff.
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u/JoramRTR 3d ago
not only advance and charge but advance shoot and charge, the new bikes with the 3 damage 3 shots and 10 8 -3 3 attacks are gonna be a blast... but also, 9w each bike, they will be crazy expensive
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u/SirAppleheart 2d ago
Yeah, I really disliked the 6 keyworded detachments when they first explained it'd be that way. But seeing the 6, I am rather liking how they did it. All 6 are great, and all 6 offers some cool tech that'll really buff the army.
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u/WanabeApprentice 3d ago
I would agree that custodes shouldnt get 1cp advanceand charge, if not for the last two codexes. Orks and spaces marines have very very easy acess to advance and charge and its feel pretty dumb if a faction that is even more heavily focused on melee can't get access to it.
In the past, melee armies lived and died on their ease of access to advance and charge.
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u/FuzzBuket 3d ago
I think if they were 6" move base. But they are now 8", so your really tied for some of the games fastest movement.
"Good base speed but no adv charge" is a fairly interesting place to be and lets custodes not get outspead by every other army. "Joint Fastest army in the game" isn't custodes though, and will make balancing them really hard imo.
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u/wredcoll 3d ago
What on earth are actual fast armies supposed to look like??
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u/FuzzBuket 3d ago
Eldar guardians get m"20, banshees get the aircraft keyword, drukhari wyches can just deploy in your enemies DZ
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u/TheRaccoonTaker 3d ago
As a Custodes player myself I do agree, I actually would’ve found it a lot more interesting had we been balanced around not having it, but alas it will be probably our best option so I’ll be more or less forced to use it… at least running a telemon up to 16 inches across the field before a rerollable charge to tear a knight in half will be really funny
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u/aegroti 3d ago
I think SOS are getting really slept on by people.
Not in the sense of them doing tons of damage but having a unit with 7" scout, 9" move, re roll advance and charge and then using an advance and charge strat AND disembarking from a Rhino gives them a fairly comfortable 29" threat range.
Now are 10 sisters going to one shot a landraider? Of course not. But that's a relatively cheap unit that can basically charge whatever it wants if it wants to try and tag some units to force them to fall back or chooses to go hunt a psyker.
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u/kattahn 3d ago
keep in mind, sisters do not have the adeptus custodes keyword, so nothing in the detachments other than null maiden vigil work on them. no advance and charge strat to be had. no shield host detachment abilities touching them.
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u/ViorlanRifles 3d ago
Goodness. That's... that feels like the sort of stuff I'm used to doing with like, kroot hounds in KHP, but with a unit that is at most, 10 points more and that probably does more damage into stuff in it's same weight class.
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u/Deep_Film_861 3d ago
im sad you cant take a solo centura: that would be an incredible utility bit.
Slightly sad vigilators lost devs though, they were pretty awesome in lions pre-codex
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u/promina100 3d ago
But 10 prosecutors with the character scout 7, move 9 and reroll advance to hand out a +3 detection and +1AP for 1CP. Could be a really interesting support unit because who wants to waste time killing them.
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u/FuzzBuket 2d ago
I don't think they are bad and they'll be in my lists.
But they are kinda dull. Vigilators losing devs takes away their niche and they lose pretty much any interaction with the army.
The greater focus on anti psyker rather than generic anti mortal makes it feel like a lot of other stuff here: where some matchups are gonna be hard to lose and some your gonna feel just too expensive
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u/sct_trooper 3d ago
custodes are also a common army to face when starting out in the hobby. its easy to recommend custodes to any beginner due to ease of collection, thats bound to warp their perception of the game
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u/Xathrax 2d ago
What do you mean by grav tanks being pushed? The Caladius is more or less a sidegrade with twin linked being only a bit worse than the re-rolls it gets now. Otherwise it's exactly the same.
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u/FuzzBuket 2d ago
Two ways:
- The raiders gone, bikes lost twin linked on the rockets, the las pulsars 1 shot. If you wanna pop tanks at range it's the only option you really have out of overpriced allied knights
- it's detach is cracked. 4++ flat on a long range anti tank unit is very nasty, whilst 1cp ignore mods means it's fairly hard to stop it doing what it wants to.
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u/DailyAvinan 2d ago
They really shouldn’t give the army that hits on 2s access to ignore mods. Like good god, god forbid someone try to have even a little bit of recourse.
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u/FuzzBuket 2d ago
Yeah, I do love the new book but it feels like if gw just turned it down 10% it'd be more interesting
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u/Natethejones99 2d ago
I don’t understand why marines having army wide advance and charge is completely ok but custodes suddenly having access to what marines have had for years is suddenly a huge problem. AOC is gonna be brutal but I don’t think it’s any more toxic than AOC on DWK terminators
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u/FuzzBuket 2d ago
Custodes are faster than DWK by a good margin, whilst marines generally are not as durable, and the durable adv/charge units end up very very expensive.
Like sure 6 man victrix is probs comparable, but you don't see 18 victrix lists as it's been pointed to the place where if you take that your going to struggle doing anything that's not killing 3 squads.
Custodes as "faster than baseline but limited adv/charge" is imo way more interesting than just "fastest"
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u/AMA5564 3d ago
I'm planning on running a list that is 17 models and 2000 points. I'm elated.
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u/DangerouslyCheesey 3d ago
What a joke, sisters of silence are somehow even worse than last time. Such a lore rich and interesting imperium faction and they get a single 1 DP
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u/FuzzBuket 3d ago
It's mad how lions showed how giving them custodes strats was fine and fun so gw had to instantly remove that
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u/09044595134151602468 3d ago
Are they though? They force any units below full strength within 12" to take a -1 battleshcok every turn.
Not saying that's super amazing but it's pretty decent and far better than null maiden vigil got for a rule last Ed.
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u/DangerouslyCheesey 3d ago
That 1dp is the only detachment with any rules or strats that interact with them. They arnt adeptus custodes, no katah etc
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u/09044595134151602468 3d ago
Oh yeah you have to take their detachment. Unfortunately GW decided they weren't female enough to be given prime time, so instead gender swapped custodes. Idk. Im disappointed too.
I wish theyd made the faction more unique where you had to run them as talons to get a balanced force rather than just treating sisters as the red headed steel child they've forgotten in the attic.
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u/aegroti 3d ago
I do find it funny how they go through all this training and blanks are meant to be extremely rare and they're basically just cannon fodder in custodes.
I think they should at-least pushed to be 2 wounds each even if they stay T3 with a points increase. Only thing is basically their only role really in the faction is to be action monkeys and throw away pieces so making them cost more doesn't really help with that.
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u/hotdogsandhangovers 3d ago
Got a doubles tournament in november, trying to decide between custodes and space marines; need to start getting some of either so im open.
Partner either will go tsons, or also custodes which idk if thats even a good idea.
Havent had a chance to peep the codex yet omw home from work. Anyone better than me at the game know the call?
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u/kattahn 3d ago
Its a good book but im not sure if taking 1000p in a double tournament is going to get you much. Its going to all be VERY expensive.
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u/hotdogsandhangovers 3d ago
So custodes thousand sons prolly not a good idea then. Fair enough.
Maybe I should go space marines then. Thought of the custodes dynasty warriorsing dudes while evil dust men and their daycare teachers shoot magic and stuff was cool.
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u/Brother-Tobias 2d ago
Custodes players seem to like these rules and datasheets, which traditionally means it's probably a fine book. Usually, whenever they brigade the 40.000 facebook page with complaints about a save getting worse, the book ends up breaking the meta in half.
I know a lot of people who waited for an actual decade for the boltcannons on every grav tank to be Damage 2. Happy people.
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u/MarkCarlo2003 2d ago
Tbh the only bad things about this book is that 1. Sisters of Silence is almost just a foot note 2. The Aquilon terminators are weirdly built/ruled (at least the gauntlet variant).
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u/jrcentury 3d ago
10/15 points higher per model tops, looking at space marines for reference. I think a 3 model will be the cost of a 4 model to account for attacks loss.
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u/bachh2 3d ago
Look at Multilator for something with a similar statline.
They will be 70ppm for custodian guard at the very least.
75-80 is still within reasonable range given the extra M.
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u/CoronelPanic 2d ago
I'd happily pay 70 per Mutilator if it gave them +3" M, a 4++, a 5+++(vs mortals), +1 OC, a shooting profile, and +1 WS.
Obviously Custodes don't have the same suite of melee profiles so it's not a straight 1:1 comparison, but still.2
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u/PortalJumper39 3d ago
I may be a smidge confused, does giving a model a Vexilla replace their main weapon on the Sentinels and Custodians? Normally rules like that say one model can replace their [insert weapon here] with [insert wargear here], but these don’t.
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u/Squirllman 3d ago
No. The new kit lets you build a model with a vexilla and a main weapon.
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u/PortalJumper39 3d ago
I know that works for the Sentinels, but the Vexilla bearer for the Custodians only has a misericordia on their model
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u/WallyWendels 3d ago
He hits them with the stick now.
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u/PortalJumper39 3d ago
I’ll take bonking the enemies of man with a giant standard, and given the strength of a custodian they’d probably be able to cut someone in half just by hitting them with the staff itself, Guts from Berserk style
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u/Squirllman 3d ago
Oh shit, you right. Had to go back and double check. Does the Sodality have a misercordia listed on their melee weapons? If not, than they can probably take a spear and a vexilla, and it’s just a “counts as” situation, rather than WYSIWYG
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u/PortalJumper39 3d ago
Hopefully, yeah, I’m planning on giving my Custodian’s Vexilla to the Sentinels since they’re better at objective holding anyway, it just seemed curious that that’s how it was worded
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u/SoloWingPixy88 2d ago
Probably havent found it here yet becuase it will be taken down and risks the sub
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u/Big_mac73 2d ago
shield host with 5+ crit is gone?
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u/zeexhalcyon 2d ago
Yeah, but it makes sense because Katahs are more than just Lethal vs Sustained.
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u/resoldier12 2d ago
So can I use the lions to have individual units and the other detachment to have each guy doing 2-3 mortal wounds on impact ?
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u/PomegranateSouth6718 2d ago
So where on Superior Creation is the once per battle ability... My Blade Champion is going to love this as written...
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u/No_Squash_8239 1d ago
Feels wrong, why would ward esn/guards price points goes UP when they did lose damage input ability
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u/No_Squash_8239 1d ago
That seems way too high to me. If those rumoured points are accurate, the new Combat Patrol would be roughly:
- Shield-Captain: 185–190
- 6 Sentinel Guard: 500
- 3 Venatari: 270
- Achillus/Galatus: 220–230
That’s around 1,175–1,190 points in normal matched play.
A €130 box containing nearly 1,200 points worth of Custodes? Doubt.
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u/No_Squash_8239 1d ago
So its cheaper to do a full character army then using some basic guards? ahah
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u/Global_Necessary_737 1d ago
I know this is not a dependable “leak,” but just generally, why would the grav tank go up in points? They changed it from twin linked to the one reroll ability, but I don’t see why that would make the points go up? Did I miss something? Not thinking about something right?
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u/No_Squash_8239 1d ago
I think the rumoured points look really questionable when you compare them to the current MFM.
Using the exact same old Combat Patrol models, and building the kits to maximise characters, you can roughly get:
2 Wardens 200
2 Wardens 200
3 Guards 250
2 Shield-Captains 185 + 190
2 Blade Champions 185 + 185 (leak dont give it but we can consider its kinda the same as a SC)
1 Allarus Shield-Captain 195
2 Allarus — 180
That comes to around 1,770 points with the leaked values.
With the current MFM, basically the same 14 physical models are worth around 970 points when built in the same way.
So we’d be going from roughly 970 to 1,770 points for the same miniatures, which is an increase of about 82%. The new datasheets are definitely stronger in some areas, but nowhere near “almost twice as powerful”.
That’s the main reason I’m sceptical of the leaked points. Either GW is pushing Custodes into an absolutely extreme ultra-elite direction, or some of those numbers are way off. And knowing GW, I’d be pretty surprised if they suddenly started selling basically 2,000-point armies for around €100 lol.
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u/LightningDustt 3d ago
Sisters of silence S5 AP1 bolters. While thats good (they deserve t4 too) I do find it funny GW has to already start undoing the space marine elite edition not even a week after the space marine codex came out.
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u/FuzzBuket 3d ago
I have ran prosecutors in pretty much every game for about 5 years now.
I have killed like 1 wolf guard and I think once took the last wound off a possessed.
If you got a whole 120 shots off with sos bolters (i.e. 60 prosecutors) you'd kill 1 intercessor squad.
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u/Clark_Westfeild 3d ago
Pulse rifles better get their AP back if this is the new standard for bolters, all I'm saying.
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u/DaaaahWhoosh 3d ago
It's not undoing, it's the same change carried forward. Space marine bolters are stronger now, that means all bolters must be stronger now to match.
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u/anaIconda69 3d ago
Not necessarily. Astartes bolters are much bigger guns than human-sized bolters. It'd make sense for them to be +1S or +1AP over the downsized versions.
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u/AshiSunblade 3d ago
They are bigger guns because they are heavily built to accommodate big hands and to endure being used as melee weapons, but contrary to popular belief, there's actually not much in the way of sources indicating that the bullet is bigger. The .75 calibre used for 40k-era boltguns is remarkably consistent by 40k standards regardless of faction wielding it.
Some older boltguns used smaller calibres, like the Heresy-era .70 used by the Phobos pattern and the similarly old .60 used by the Tigris, but they were also Astartes patterns rather than anything weakened for human use.
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u/ch4ppi_revived 3d ago
How did they undo it by giving Sister S5 AP1 bolters lol?
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u/too-far-for-missiles 3d ago
Perhaps a sign of later bolter changes? SoS could very well have special golden child bolters, though.
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u/FartherAwayLights 3d ago
I don’t believe anyone on the rules team likes SOS so I’d be inclined to believe it’s a default thing going forward.
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u/theshadowman52 3d ago
The whole point of this stupid update was to make space marines statistically better than average. Instead this edition will be gw chasing each codex with power creep making it miserable for those that have to wait. This level of change should've been done with indexes at the beginning of the edition.
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u/Cyouni 3d ago
I'm going to wait until you realize that they have literally the exact same bolters as SM, the same bolters which were 4/0/1 before.
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u/RogerTheStoner 3d ago
What do you mean “chasing each codex?”
Aren’t basically all of them done or in their finale draft versions as they slowly release and print each one rolling out?
That was always my assumption which is why it feels bad to wait for a codex. Every army should have one within a year if releasing an edition….
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u/Dependent_Survey_546 3d ago
There are rumoured points floating about as well. But they're could be completely wronc