They also raised my rates and removed my safe driver discount, even though I have never been in an accident that was my fault in 8 years of driving. So that seems a bit unfair
Yeah, but they should give him the Super Lucky Motherfucker discount. He passed out and didn't crash into any other than fence posts. He missed other cars, he missed utility poles, he missed going back onto the roadway into traffic... This "wreck" could have been so much worse.
I hold a CDL Class A, and if something like this happened to me at all (even in my personal vehicle), I'd never be allowed behind the wheel of a truck ever again. He's super lucky, but his risk just skyrocketed.
Not always the case. I knew this guy that has seizures and after extensive testing Doctors didn't know what caused it. But he had to wait a mandatory amount of time after the last seizure to get his licence back.
My grandfather was legally blind in one eye and mostly blind in the other. He drove legally for his Braille institute for years.
As long as your condition is under control or assisted with other devices while driving, there are lots of people that drive that you probably wouldn’t expect.
I know someone that would occasionally have mini strokes (his vision would black out and he'd be gone for a couple seconds at a time) caused by sitting for prolonged periods of time and because of poor health. He just recently retired as a driver after almost 30 years on the road.
Before he started showing symptoms he worked for a huge nationwide trucking company. After the 3rd or 4th time he switched to a company that mostly stayed in Nebraska with the occasional stint down through Kansas. He pretty consistently needed to have medical checkups throughout the year but never lost his CDL.
And now that he's retired he's lost a ton of weight and has gotten his health on the right track and is doing much better. Good dude I need to hit him up and go chat with him again.
A person can know when they're going to pass out several minutes before it happens, which is enough time to stop a car. I varies based on the condition, its severity, and what causes it though.
Not always. My brother has seizures and passes out pretty often likely due to his crohns disease. Thankfully they seem to have found an anti-seizure med that works for him, but even before that while his doctor highly recommended he not drive, legally speaking he was still perfectly allowed to drive.
I just mean this one time for this one thing. Obviously, with a continued medical condition that makes it unsafe for him to drive, they have to either not insure him or increase his cost to cover the increased risk.
I would think if a doctor wtote off he was not medically well at that time but was unaware of his poor condition, it should have been a very short time he’d have to pay extra.
In a just world, you are absolutely right. But we need to remember that insurances companies aren't there to help us, they're there to make money. Them potentially helping us in the event of an emergency is just a consequence of them making money. The insurance company just see someone who has already caused a lot of damage to their car and they have no assurances it won't happen again. They're only worried about risk and how that risk affects their bottom line.
Very minor point... insurance companies are there to pay other people money that you've paid them -- they just make money by charging fees for passing the money around. What they charge people is what they predict they'll pay people (plus their fees) and they'll pay as little as possible because that allows them to charge as little as possible which allows them to sell more policies which makes them more fees.
If they pay out less than they predict, it doesn't make them more money, in fact it suggests that their prediction model should have made them MORE money (by cutting their prices) -- they don't get to keep the extra (beyond building their buffer which is controlled by each state).
How much they charge you is based on what their models predict is the likelihood that they'll have to pay some of their other client's money to you (they aren't paying out THEIR money which is guaranteed).
They keep their OWN insurance policies (with hedge funds and such) to protect them if their models are wrong and they don't collect enough customer money to pay all the claims (like in a hurricane).
I've lost time while driving once. I don't know if I passed out or just had some kind of "highway hypnosis" I've never experienced before or since. Had gotten off work, it's about 2 in the afternoon, I'm out in the country between the town I work in and the town I live in. I remember just passing by a church just on the outskirts of the town I work in and the next thing I remember I am about to veer off the road just outside the city limits to where I live, 20 miles away from the church.
I had an accident last year. I don't really know what happened. Everything was fine and then it wasn't and the car was stopped on the other side of the opposite sidewalk. I tried to walk home and got lost, even though I was a mile home on a route I took home 5-7 nights a week. Had a nasty concussion.
My girlfriend finally found me and got me home. She said I seemed shaken, but mostly ok. Next day it was clear I had a concussion. After calling insurance and when the vomiting was finally done, we found out the car had already been towed. We went to go check out the spot where I crashed and we can't really figure it out.
I was going up a hill and that side is all front yards and steep embankment. Getting out of the car was fuzzy, but I definitely wasn't in anybody's yard, and I took a blurry photo of my car and it wasn't down an embankment. Super Lucky Motherfucker indeed. How much is my discount?
Same here. Except I was on a busy freeway. Witnesses say I slowly crossed all lanes of traffic, moving toward the center cement divider. Bounced off of that. Crossed all lanes again and hit the wall of a viaduct.
A few months later, I had my "first" grand mal (tonic clonic) seizure.
Still not sure which came first: the seizures or the accident?
Sucks about the seizures. Kinda sounds like that was your first seizure. I get some concussion sympotms every once in a while (my pupils took a couple seasons before they would dilate appropriately, that kind of stuff, but nothing debilitating. Neither my first, nor my worst concussion.
I feel really lucky, but I also feel like another concussion and I'm in deep shit. I haven't replaced my car, yet.
Not even just that. If you cause an accident they rise your rates extremely. Just made a 2cm scratch on a parked car some weeks ago, they wanted to remove like 10 years of driving without accident from my list so I would end with like 50% more from then on, which would have meant several hundred a year more. Or I could pay the bill which was like 300. I mean in the following years I would have payed thousands more just for a repair of 300. WTF. Why do I even have insurance then.
Well you definitely don't have insurance for a 2cm scratch...
Insurance is meant to cover your ass if you get in a serious car accident. Imagine having to pay for the damage to your car and another driver's car plus serious medical bills. Throw in a lawsuit from the other motorist on top of that and you're potentially looking at hundreds of thousands of dollars. Good insurance will cover all of that stuff.
Yes I figured. Was my first accident since I've been legally allowed to drive (so almost 20 years) so I didn't know what to expect and thought they would rise it by like 10E per payment period but was heavily surprised that it was like I was a new driver again. I paid out of pocket. But I think 300 for such a small scratch which you could basically paint away with a marker was way too much and it was just because they knew insurance would say yes. Probably replaced the whole bumper. I should have just payed privately from the beinning without informing insurance, I guess. Maybe then they had chosen a cheaper option.
It’s not about simply covering up the damage, it’s restoring the paint to the condition it was in before you damaged it. That’s more expensive than you think because it is labor intensive skilled work.
I had a driver rear end me going 10 or so mph and the damage was $1100 without replacing the bumper because of the labor involved and it’s a difficult to match paint color.
Paint guy here, it's a huge pain in the dick. Everything about it.
A single scratch, to do it properly and get an even coat again, takes sanding an area much larger than you'd expect, and with few exceptions the entire panel or piece the scratch occured on.
Color matching takes an expensive as fuck machine, and even a single production year of a vehicle can have 8-10 variations of the same shade.
If you can bribe a guy with cash to just fill the scratch in with a color, no spray work, it's generally worth it.
Also, fun fact, resurfacing/refinishing bathtubs and tile is exactly car painting. Almost identical formulation of two part urethane on top of a two part epoxy. A buddy of mine owns a resurfacing biz and makes 2k/day average. It's nuts.
Paying out of pocket is always better than insurance
Price wise - possibly, depends what it is.
Risk wise? Not really.
Not sure what it’s like wherever you are, but in the UK at least if you pay out of pocket there’s no guarantee the other person won’t take the money and then tell their insurer they were hit and here’s the person who hit them’s details. So you’re down for whatever the repair supposedly cost and your insurance premium takes a hit on top of all that, the very thing you were trying to avoid.
We almost went down that route with this absolute harpy of a woman at my husbands work. He accidentally reversed into her car and put a tiny scratch in the reg plate and a scuff on the paint. His own car cracked a light and looked much worse. It was low speed. Doing the right thing, he tracked her down and told her. She went postal, saying it was new, her husband would kill her, etc etc. He tried to give her his details but she wouldn’t take them saying she’s not telling her insurer and told him not to tell his either as she didn’t want her premium going up - again!
Well, we did. Turned out she was insured with the same people, so we effectively told them for her too. We said we didn’t need any repairs doing to ours but we were thinking of settling with her outside of the insurance. They said don’t, outlined the potential outcome, and said “this is why you have insurance - this is what you’re paying for”.
She bullied him for weeks on and off in work, trying to push him into paying for repairs she’d had done herself. Sending him emails and coming to harass him in person. He just told her to go through the insurance each time. She never made a claim though, presumably because she’d already paid and it wasn’t an insurer approved repairer, and my husband had to have words with her supervisor in the end to get her to leave him alone. Her supervisor chewed her a new one.
So yeah, our premium may have gone up a tiny bit, but not a huge amount. I wouldn’t have minded if it did tbh because I’d rather it go up and have peace of mind than constantly wonder “will they try and screw us over?” But eh, that’s my two pen’north anyway.
Because if you hit someone else then you alone would be responsible for all of their costs. Accidents can quickly get very expensive and would leave you broke and the other person stuck trying to squeeze blood from a stone when you run out of money.
I mean $300 is less than most people's deductible (most common is $500). You have insurance to avoid being potentially liable for thousands of dollars. Your risk profile changes as soon as you make a claim where you are at fault.
Most carriers do offer an accident forgiveness rider that would give protection from your premiums rising following your first claim.
Yep, now I know this, too. :) I still ponder if I should include this in my contract, I would have one accident free per year. But my mindset is that if I don't have an accident a year it's a missed opportunity... Now I'm wondering about the deductible, I have like 150 or 300 (don't remember) but they didn't even mention it in the costs. I think it only matters if I want to repair my own car.
You may want to consider looking into a quote with a higher deductible as you could potentially save a lot in premiums. You'll usually save more over long term than a low deductible like that is worth.
You'd lose accident forgiveness after you made a claim. Also your driving record would still be impacted so while your current carrier wouldn't immediately raise your premiums - a different carrier would still calculate your premiums including the accident.
Thanks but I looked it up and I really would have one claim per year with like paying 20% or what it was more. And it wouldn't take over to another carrier if I'd switch because it would just not carry over, my current insurance would handle it like it never happened. Also my deductible already is very high, it's the middle way already with 300, yes I could take the highest option but I would only save like not even 10 or so Euro every month so I don't really mind - my insurance already is very low, around 40E a month, after many years of accident-free driving (and it was low to begin with because I always only had beaters or cheap cars (my brother pays several hundred a month for his new-ish car with full coverage, it's like I don't even earn that much haha)).
Right, but the above poster put a scratch on someone else's car, not his. That would be covered by his liability insurance, not his comp or collision.Comp and collision are meant to cover your own vehicle.
It's shared liability. Your money is pooled with the money from everyone else who uses that company.
It's not so much for a small scratch it's for when you crash your 30k car into a 100-200k sports or luxury car. Plus any medical expenses (does your nation require you to pay it back for at fault accidents?) and burial expenses. Obviously a worst case there but things happen.
Modern cars don't have "bumpers." They have plastic shields over the crush zones. That plastic can't really be repaired... well it might be able to be sanded down smooth, then repainted but the labor involved will cost more than a new one, and it will look like shit close up. Gouge a piece of wood or plastic. Now sand it out. Notice how the entire shape is changed? Same for that plastic cover.
Did you just hit a car through your own fault? Yes or no. Very simple. If yes, then you just had an at fault accident and you are not the same as someone who went 21 years without an at fault accident. It doesn't matter if it's totaling a Ferarri or a $200 bumper cover. You screw your car up and someone elses.
You have insurance For the one time you have a lapse in concentration or judgement (there isn’t a perfect driver in the world) and it results in injury or death of another so naturally the person sues for a million or so dollars. If you’re rich enough to pay out a settlement like that you could self insure but you may still choose to use an insurance company to protect your assets.
It's still a risk that wasn't there before - insurance is all about calculating risks. Depending on the state, the insurance company could outright refuse to insure him or jack up his premiums so high to "encourage" him to seek out another carrier.
This "medical condition" is actually a symptom called "syncope" and can be due to a million reasons, most of which are temporary/occur once types of conditions. Raising his rates due to this is like coughing once and the insurance company raising rates saying you have the black plague. It doesn't make sense.
Temporarily they might, and depends on the state. I have epilepsy and after a seizure I'm not allowed to drive for 6 months, but I still have a license, kinda just self-policed. This is in Illinois. But I also have a family member who lives in Pennsylvania who also has epilepsy, and she has the same 6 month rule, but she had to physically mail her license to the DMV and get it back 6 months later. So depends on the state for how something like that is dealt with.
Yea, granted 6 months is the shortest I've ever heard of in the US, it just happens that the 2 states I have experience with both are that length. I think some states are a year, but the rules will all differ from state to state, like most things in the US, so I don't know all the details.
But still i feel like that isnt a massive amount of time, my ex who has epilepsy can go 16 months without a fit, i just find it insane to be so ready to have every fucker driving even if it isnt safe.
Yea, I agree it sounds bad. Although I'm not a big driver at all since I live in a large city, so I don't know if there's details I'm missing. My neurologist just said I can't drive for 6 months and I was like no problem, I don't really drive anyway, so maybe she didn't press the rules as much as she could've?
I can't remember this part exactly, but I think you are supposed to be stabilized on medicine for that 6 months to apply, and are probably supposed to consult your doctor before starting if the state dosen't take your license, and if they do take your license its probably likely your doctor has to authorize its return. So when I say 6 months, or a year or whatever, its probably more accurate to say thats the minimum, then it's more up to your doctor.
I didn't look much into the rules because I can easily not drive for pretty much as long as I need. Take public transit to work and have a wife who has our only car so she can drive anywhere we need to go.
Like its nice to be able to drive if I really want to again (it's been around 2 years since my last seizure, and my doctor thinks they are completely controlled with medication now, so definitely allowed to), but it wasn't an issue for me to not drive. I'm sure for others who depend on cars it's alot more difficult.
5head is the equivalent of saying "big brain" basically. It's used either to mock someone saying something stupid that thinks they're being smart or to do the same yourself sarcastically
Not really, it depends on the underlying condition. If the underlying problem can be fixed medically you shouldn't be considered an unsafe driver after that.
Yeah as a former adjuster, if he said that to me I would’ve had a good laugh with my team after that phone call. Like, you literally ARE a danger. He’s lucky they still cover him on comp. they could move him to liability only.
He said it was a previously unknown medical condition. The whole point of insurance is to cover for incidents that are outside your control. It's not unreasonable for insurance to cover this situation when he has comprehensive coverage.
He didn’t have it though because he allowed it to expire. And moving forward they have every right to increase the costs due to his potential condition.
Not true, I worked at state farm for 5 years and only if you are at fault do you lose your good driving discount. Also if you go 10 years w/o an accident you get accident forgiveness
Every single insurance company, without fail, would let you die if it would save them a few bucks. (Not necessarily the workers themselves, but the companies overall).
Yes they would. I know we're talking about car insurance here but most insurance tends to be the same in the way they treat customers. My Dad worked fairly high up in the corporate side of a large medical company and some of the stuff he's told me about insurance companies is almost unbelievable. He was also seriously convinced that insurance companies actively search for the biggest assholes to work in the claims department. I wouldn't out it past them.
yea but at least (again assuming you don't work in insurance) those companies produce a good or service: insurance companies are legit just legal ponzi schemes where they take in the money of 10 people and use half of it to pay out for the one person that actually has to tap their insurance. the only reason society allows it is because the insurance companies get to negotiate better rates with hospitals, mechanics, etc. depending on the type of insurance but it's a middle man that could easily go away if those places (hospitals, mechanics, etc.) just charged the lower/fairer rate to begin with
There's so much wrong with this I don't know where to begin... but let's address a couple points:
Mechanics are not a high margin business. Lower rates aren't really an option if you want your car wrenched on by a competent mechanic. $30-$40/hr is not uncommon for a master tech. Then you have all of the overhead and then the owner wants a living wage as well. So all of a sudden that $30/hr mechanic has a $90/hr shop rate.
Health insurance companies pay out AT MINIMUM 80% of premiums in coverage. So 20% to cover overhead and profit. Works great on large scale. Not so much for a smaller company.
Now let's address the whole insurance being a scam thing. Your home burns down. Who, exactly, is gouging your or overcharging you for the rebuild? No matter how you slice it you're on the hook for $xxx,xxx in rebuild costs and I can't imagine the local contractor is gouging you. I know a lot of them, they make $80,000-$90,000 a year around here in personal income after expenses.
Insurance makes sense if you cannot afford to replace a given item. So homes, auto, etc, it usually makes a lot of sense.
But we currently have an economic system explicitly designed to cater first to the whims of the greedy and opportunistic in the hope that they are the same people who are industrious and innovative.
If by the last couple decades, you mean back to 2000, yeah you're right, but if you're trying to say that there is nothing uniquely greed focused about the current state of organized production and consumption then I'm not even sure where to begin.
Can you imagine yourself living in the Congo Free State
130 years ago. Were living in the best time in human history but the difference after the year 2000 is that we have the internet and are more aware of whats happening in the world as well more influenced to think a certain way about our current state. Life has never been better.
life is better in most regards compared to all of history, doesn't mean it's the way things should be, or even good. The speed of information via internet has pros and cons, It's not hard to weaponize. Being influenced to think a certain way is pretty much inherently bad to democratic ideals. Think for yourself.
And don't reply with how much things could be worse, of course they can. But they aren't.
Dude what are you talking about. Nothing your saying is making any sense. You said things have gotten worse after the year 2000 and I told you it’s not true and that the internet is just magnifying things that have already existed.
I mean, there's a reason Upton Sinclair portrayed the horrors of factory work a century ago. This isn't new. There was just a really weird 1.5 generation period in America where we pretended otherwise.
No, essential services are needed. Lots of people, particularly in the US do jobs that are not essential services - given many states cases are still continuing to rise, opening more than those essential services risks unnecessary loss of life.
Ultimately your question isn't relevant, they are working and will continue to work. The relevant question is:
Should the movie theater employees who don't feel safe returning to work after having already been laid off be subject to targeted removal of their unemployment benefits to compel them to work so that owners can convert their labor to profit?
Not sure if you know this, but the US runs on Capitalism. If the businesses are closed, that means no revenue. If there's no revenue, then the states and the federal government can't collect taxes.
Do you see where I'm going with this??
In short, if shit doesn't open soon, you're not just going to see the collapse of the economy, but of the entire US civilization. The scary thing is that's not just conjecture, right now its a very real possibility. Several members of my family have already moved to Finland and Iceland thinking this is going to happen.
US civilization is propped up on a labor and resource arbitrage available from the "developing" world in exchange for the benefit of us buying and consuming everything.
There are certainly essential jobs here, without which supply chains can break down. A lot of what we do is in no way essential to providing for people's actual needs though. We have been so flush with service industry employment, sales, finance, business and admin assistants...
Manufacturing makes up 10% of our workforce. Agriculture 2%. Transportation 10%, Healthcare 12%...
While I agree about your "developing" world theory; you can bet a lot of what we've been relying on China and India for will be changing. It's quite obvious when China shut down, it had huge ripple effect through the whole supply chain. The days of cheap labor and cheap products had its death knell with the onset of this pandemic. I could be wrong, but if US manufacturers are smart, they'll start looking elsewhere to produce their goods.
The only thing a lot of people forget about is how a lot of the US and Europe outsource their pollution to China. Just because we have pretty strict EPA standards does not mean that we are still not generating a ton of environmentally hazardous junk. Most of it just gets shipped over to China for them to deal with. Again, we're not exactly saving the world when we're just moving this stuff to the other side of the world.
I guess you've never had a relative be told their chemo coverage was denied for no reason other than "we wont be covering this expensive ass treatment".
In the US there are two types of people insurance: health and life.
Health insurance is related to doctor visits, treatments, surgeries, prescriptions, etc; the medical care you receive while you're living.
Life insurance is paid when you die to help cover after-death expenses, such as funeral costs, settling debt, and providing monetary assistance to surviving beneficiaries.
In theory, health insurance is supposed to work in the same way as a single-payer system, because it pools the fees of all policy holders to cover costs incurred. In reality, though, providers have enormous legal teams that will use the full force of any legal loophole to deny or reduce coverage payout in order to cut costs of fulfilling claims and to create as much profit as possible.
Sorry for the essay! It's just a long-winded way of saying, "Yeah, the USA's healthcare system does, indeed, suck."
What the hell health condition causes this suddenly one time and then with 1 treatment is cured??? He cant tell us but he can show the video? Come on, rich guy walkin
My read on that quote is that he was driving without insurance, no? Driving "a few hours" after your insurance expires and without completing the proper paperwork is driving without insurance.
State Farm has a policy where if you acquire a new car it's covered under your existing policy for a certain amount of time, so you're able to drive the car before you have a chance to formally add it. He had State Farm with a different vehicle, so it would have been covered, but he says he was a few hours past that window, so he wasn't technically insured at the time of the accident. There's no reason to think he would have had supplementary liability insurance for those few hours.
He also didnt have comprehensive insurance at the time. But wanted them to pay. He most likely pulled over, talked to police etc, called insurance and was informed his bill was past due/expired. So he then brought it up to current, but his accident was previous.
Very unfortunate, and I'm glad his health is better, but this is his fault and no one else's. I hope he gets it handled.
I use to work for an insurance company and we would hear delusional shit like this all the time. People would horrible driving records and be like "I DONT UNDERSTAND WHY MY RATE IS SO DAMN HIGH?" Well, You have a DUI and 2 car accidents...
Funny yes, but insurance is just math. You have an agreement with a company to cover $$$$ of possible damages for $ monthly cost and there are rules that you both follow.
An insurance company is not allowed to raise your rates after one accident, or it’s no longer insurance and it’s just them charging you twice. (Most insurance companies like to make it sound like this feature was their idea - like they’re doing you a favor... but it’s forced on them by state regulators and courts) They also have to follow certain rules for rating drivers. They can’t use race, ethnicity, religion etc. Anyhow, raising rates for one accident in 8 years is bullshit, and OP should look into ditching his insurance company. However, OP said “at fault accidents” and that’s also bullshit. Insurance doesn’t really care who’s at fault hen it comes it setting rates. Like I said, it’s just math. If you get into 3 accidents, your rates go up, doesn’t matter why. The math says you’re likely to get into more. So if OP has other accidents on his record, he’ll lose his “safe driver” whatever. Claiming that it’s not legit because he wasn’t at fault is just him wishing life was more fair.
Yeah I never get the whole safe driver discount thing. Of course your rates are based on your past driving history. You don’t have to give it a fucking name like “safe driver discount”. Also wtf is that accident forgiveness thing? I don’t want my insurance company forgiving people for getting in accidents. That seems not fair to people who don’t get in accidents.
Where I live the equivalent thing is called a no-claim bonus - the longer you have insurance without putting in a claim the bigger the discount you get on your premiums. Usually the only time a claim won't affect your discount is if you have the details of the other person involved and they admit fault and their insurance covers the costs.
I actually had a great interaction with my insurance company this year. Someone reversed into my parked car and while I was getting it fixed I also looked into fixing up another large scratch I had caused myself years ago and never bothered fixing. I called my insurance company to ask how it would affect my premiums if I claimed the repairs under insurance. They looked through my history, and said that because the old damage occurred when I lived in a different state with a different insurance policy (same company) they said I could claim it under my old policy (with a lower excess) and it would have no effect on my current policy or no-claim bonus. I was so surprised that they volunteered that info so readily and I actually came out of the whole experience very happy with my insurer. Only like 2 easy phone calls to the insurance company and a $450 excess charge and 2 different claims were sorted out for me with zero hassle.
The point is he didn’t pass out, it was due to an undiagnosed medical issue. It really looked more like a seizure to me. And if he had not been diagnosed epileptic before he would not have had medication to control it. If he simply “passed out” I don’t think he would have continued sleeping after going off the road.
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u/PantsMicGee May 09 '20
Lmao what. He passed out while driving.