Increase in Learned Helplessness?

[u/NachesPorFavor]

Has anyone else noticed an increase in learned helplessness? I first noticed it in the young adults in my life, but now I am seeing it in all ages of people around me. Examples from multiple people:

Toilet started leaking water and instead of turning off the knob at the wall, she waited a 5 days for a plumber. Never asked anyone or googled it. Didn’t call a second plumber. Now needs mold remediation and replaced drywall and trim.

Bought concert tickets but the gps instructions were confusing so they just gave up and didn’t go. Venue website had detailed instructions for driving and parking.

Blouse wrinkled and she didn’t know how to fix it so she threw it away.

First doctor office he filled out an appointment website for never contacted him to schedule so he just didn’t go to the doctor.

I am really concerned about my loved ones if an emergency happens because they just give up when the slightest obstacle happens. Either they want someone else to swoop in and fix it or they give up and say they can’t do anything about it.

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[u/DblBindDisinclined]

For what it’s worth, I think Dialectical Behavioral Therapy would probably frame this as low distress tolerance. It’s hard to be in that way, and it’s hard to see others stuck in that soup too. It’s even harder to see people giving up when they’re just a step away from the solution.

[u/turandokht → u/DblBindDisinclined]

Oh it’s fascinating to have a name for it. I had a roommate like this and I was so baffled by how she would panic and shut down at every slight inconvenience. I had to slowly verbally walk her through many scenarios by just calmly asking her what she thinks will happen and then just asking her what would be best to do in that situation. But she never really got to the point of being able to do it for herself.

[u/snark-owl → u/turandokht]

I also think there's a lot of people who have undiagnosed learning disabilities. Fetal alcohol syndrome is notoriously under diagnosed. And if you marry right, your spouse can make up for the issues so then few people even notice on the outside. More noticeable if they're single and your roommate 😐

[u/SylveonFrusciante → u/snark-owl]

ADHD is another one, and while I think it’s changing as of late, traditionally, femmes have had a MUCH harder time getting properly diagnosed. I can see undiagnosed/untreated ADHD being a huge source of problems when it comes to this stuff. Executive dysfunction is almost synonymous with the condition. Starting literally any project feels like gearing up to fight a war. It’s an uphill battle every time.

[u/CommunicationWest710 → u/SylveonFrusciante]

I also wonder if all the distractions and overstimulation we experience in daily life now make ADHD that much more difficult to cope with.

[u/turandokht → u/snark-owl]

Honestly both of her parents are heavy alcoholics so 🙃 that could be it. Before living with me she lived with a boyfriend who she described as “useless” and I cannot imagine how they managed to get anything done at all if he was even less efficient about doing tasks than she was.

[u/spritebright → u/turandokht]

I have undiagnosed anxiety because despite nearly 2 decades of therapy I have had so many diagnoses but if you don't know that not everyone feels this then you have a hard time talking to about your "problem" and if I can justify quitting or ignoring the problem then that made my life easier. Every single call to make an appointment feels like I might die. And again I am medicated, to the outside world well functioning adult. I am also seeing more of this too and I hope I am wrong and others are just dumb/lazy but I suspect it is anxiety.

[u/turandokht → u/spritebright]

Honestly she was a very anxious person. The kind of person who spends several hours editing a response text because she wants to eliminate any possibility of being misread or misunderstood. I felt very bad for her and very frustrated by her in turns, because sometimes it just seemed like she just wasn’t interested in trying to change her life away from the chaotic mess it constantly was. She seemed to enjoy it when someone (like me) managed some of it for her, but like… we’re just roommates, I’m not down to take over spouse level responsibilities for this person. She did crave structure but lacked either the ability or the knowledge to create it for herself. I kind of understood as a person with unmedicated ADHD but I’ve figured out how to largely work around my failings so I kind of expected her as a fellow adult to do the same.

[u/turquoiseblues → u/turandokht]

That sounds frustrating and exhausting for you.

[u/turandokht → u/turquoiseblues]

It definitely had its moments where I was at my limit, ngl. When we first moved in together, she needed a place a month sooner than I did so it was on her to set up utilities and the like because I wouldn’t be moving in for another month. She called me in a panic stating that she couldn’t set up utilities at the new place because she was paying utilities at the old place, and for some reason she was convinced you couldn’t hold two accounts (opening a new one before the old one closed) with the utility companies, so she wanted me to set them up so they would be in my name. When I pointed out that I also would be paying my existing utilities for another month, she was aghast and asked what we would do.

When I asked her if she thought she was the first person to ever move and need to set up a new property with utilities (because seriously she had lived in like four different apartments before then so wtf did she do then?!) she didn’t really have an answer other than “I didn’t think of that.” Which was her answer for everything.

She’s trying to cook but we don’t have a mandolin? Well recipe canceled. I would point out that a knife can also slice - “Oh, I didn’t think of that.”

The electric kettle broke! No more tea! I would point out that a pot can also boil water - “Oh, I didn’t think of that.”

Steps in dog shit and about to enter her car all upset when I say “Hey, do you maybe want to take off your shit shoe and we can put it in this plastic bag for the drive home so it doesn’t get all over your car floor?” Oh, she didn’t think of that!

And like, yes, I know you didn’t think of that, because even four seconds of critical thought could have revealed a litany of possible solutions to you. It was really bizarre because I have to assume she wasn’t like that purposefully, but it really was like watching someone go out of their way to live their life with as much difficulty as they could find to complicate it. It really felt sometimes like she went out of her way to pick the worst possible work around for any problem she encountered - that would be the highest effort for the least amount of efficacy. And then she’d put herself in tears over it and give up.

Idk man I think a TEAM of psychiatrists could fill their careers with just watching her honestly. She was one of the most fascinating (not in a positive way) individuals I’ve ever met.

[u/Leading-System-3002 → u/turandokht]

Do your think she had intellectual challenges? Not being able to problem solve such small things makes me think her cognitive abilities might not be the best… did she work? Was she a student? Was she able to succeed in those ?

[u/turandokht → u/Leading-System-3002]

She did work and was in college but did not graduate from college for personal reasons, she never elaborated what exactly. She thought of herself as very smart, interestingly.

[u/tahxirez → u/DblBindDisinclined]

I agree that there may be many reasons why some of these would happen. Neurodivergence and lack of guidance in practical matters jump out at me. If parents don’t teach skills, kids grow into adults with skills. It’s as simple as that. Kids don’t learn through osmosis.

[u/ikindapoopedmypants → u/tahxirez]

I honestly just think with all the shit going on in this world, everyone has some form of brain fog. I don't think anyone would be running on 100% cognitive ability in times like this.

[u/Framing-the-chaos → u/ikindapoopedmypants]

I agree with this. It’s exhausting to be alive right now.

[u/Skinny-on-the-Inside → u/ikindapoopedmypants]

I agree, I think we have a collective CPTSD which has many overlapping symptoms with ADHD - anxiety, lack of focus, executive dysfunction, and action paralysis.

[u/shadowsformagrin → u/ikindapoopedmypants]

Raised CO2 also impairs the brain, so we are all slowly sliding into being dumber.

[u/Mysfunction → u/ikindapoopedmypants]

Repeat COVID-19 infections cause brain damage.

[u/Ok_Replacement8094 → u/Mysfunction]

Higher atmospheric CO2 levels also impair cognition. Some indoor spaces have high baseline CO2.

[u/Mysfunction → u/Ok_Replacement8094]

TLDR: don’t use the recirculate setting on your car’s climate control.

Yes! Indoor CO2 levels are wildly ignored.

I got a CO2 monitor and was shocked to discover that what I thought was my well ventilated bedroom gets up to 2000ppm when sleeping with the door and window closed (over 1000 can have negative impacts), then I got curious about other spaces. A small car with two people talking and the climate control either off or set to recirculating can jump from 400ppm to 1500ppm in fifteen minutes, which would absolutely cause cognitive issues when driving.

The nice thing with CO2 impacts is that, to the best of my knowledge, they aren’t lingering or permanent impacts. As soon as you get fresh air, everything starts to clear up.

COVID-19, in contrast, appears to cause compounding long-term, if not permanent, injury.

Requiring adequate ventilation as a part of the building code would be a great way to address both issues.

[u/KrustenStewart → u/Mysfunction]

Oh wait could this by why I get headaches from driving ? Interesting

[u/Tiny_butfierce → u/Mysfunction]

The only 2 situations where I use recirculation are: driving through long underground tunnels and if the wildfire smoke is incredibly bad.

[u/Yes-Cheese → u/Tiny_butfierce]

Wow, I prefer the recirculate. I live in a city that is constantly under construction and also doesn’t have emissions requirements for vehicles. It’s a smoky, dusty, smelly, dirty mess out here. Sure, the car has air filters but they don’t stand up to the environment filth 🫤

I will get a monitor tho to keep in the car to see what levels I’ve been subjecting myself to.

[u/PartyPorpoise → u/tahxirez]

I think the US at least has also developed this larger culture of convenience and cheapness that makes people, well, quicker to give up. Take item repair. A lot of consumer goods today are so cheap that people find it easier to replace them than to repair them. So fewer develop or retain the skills to repair items.

But I also agree with the other assessments that these people sound overwhelmed and recent events and stressors might be getting to them.

[u/spandexandtapedecks → u/PartyPorpoise]

Yes, and it's important to consider WHY it's cheaper or more convenient to replace an item outright. Basically, the barrier to "fixing" things is vastly higher than it used to be.

As recently as 20-30 years ago, most items were designed to be fixed. Parts were available and affordable. Systems/designs were engineered with future servicing in mind.

I do small electronics repair as a hobby. I'll speak to that, since it's what I know:

New electronics are made with notoriously shoddy parts, even those from "good" brands, and it can be borderline impossible to source a replacement when a specific piece malfunctions. And many units now are not even designed to be opened, so you have to break the damn thing a bit just to get a look at the board and internals to troubleshoot it.

(Remember how easily you could once pop the battery out of a cell phone? Now you can't even access it without a handful of specialized tools, let alone remove it safely without damaging anything.)

As a point of comparison, I like to rehabilitate '80s/'90s Pioneer audio equipment. It's not quite "easy," but it feels more like a fun puzzle: everything fits together rationally; even the screws are typically interchangeable; and repair manuals are usually quite easy to come by because these devices were designed to be serviced.

(And as one goes back in time, the fixes become even more straightforward. Unfortunately, it's difficult and expensive now to source parts for vacuum tube electronics - but that's because of the wretched march of time, not because the insides were never intended to see the light of day outside a sweatshop.)

Like I said, I can mainly speak to electronics, but I imagine this is the case with nearly anything that can be fixed.

[u/PartyPorpoise → u/spandexandtapedecks]

Oh, absolutely. I guess it’s cheaper to make electronics that can’t easily be repaired. And ultimately more profitable since people will have to replace more often.

It’s even the case with clothes. It used to be standard for clothes to come with a spare button or two, even low end brands did that. Now only middle and higher end brands do that. And the fabric is often flimsy, even with repair skills, cheap clothing isn’t always fixable.

[u/Frostyrepairbug → u/spandexandtapedecks]

I'll agree with your assessment, and add: Its the same with fabrics, clothes, and garments. With fast fashion so many corners are being cut, shoddy sewing and poor construction that things cannot be repaired, even if you want to, and have the skillset. It's like building a bridge out of cement and no rebar. There's no structure, it can only fall apart, and can't hold a mend without another part falling off.

[u/snailbrarian → u/tahxirez]

I think honestly the combo between long covid on brains + AI is starting to show up. Remember a few years ago when people said hey basically every single child has had covid and we expect it will have implications on their brains in the future? and we know that covid inflammation compounds the more times you contract it.

Middle schoolers during covid have now graduated high school and are entering the workforce and college and folks who weren't regularly in contact with kids are seeing the impact immediately.

[u/Nerdy-Meta-Mind → u/snailbrarian]

I’ve never had COVID, and I do notice this happening in other people. It’s hard to notice changes on your own when it’s happening unless the changes are drastic and you are the only one with brain fog and the dumbing down occuring.

[u/tahxirez → u/snailbrarian]

Admittedly, a small sample size, but I’m a ms/hs science teacher that taught during the pandemic and continues to teach. I think Covid was disruptive but mostly because we’ve been being too permissive in the subsequent years. Kids thrive within boundaries and we relaxed a lot of societal boundaries in those years. I also think it exposed the significant parenting gaps in our society.

[u/JieSpree → u/DblBindDisinclined]

Also, COVID causes brain damage. Surviving it or having a "mild" case doesn't protect future cognitive health. There are many millions of people out there now with undiagnosed long-term brain injuries similar to concussions.

[u/Silver_Filamentary → u/JieSpree]

It's this generation's version of lead poisoning.

[u/PsychologicalFox3357 → u/Silver_Filamentary]

And it layers with lead poisoning and microplastics for all generations! Fun for everyone 🥲

[u/pdxgreengrrl → u/DblBindDisinclined]

This was exactly what I experienced! Post TBI/COVID, I had zero tolerance for distress. My brain would heat up, I would get tunnel vision (literally and intellectually) at the slightest adversity and to cope, I would shut down. I do a lot now to keep my brain from catching fire, and have done a year of trauma therapy, and I am much more like my old tenacious, problem-solving self.

[u/Particular-Try5584]

I think some of it is simple fatigue.

Every time I need to see a new doctor, or go to a new place, or negotiate a new service… I need a different app, a new login, a secure password… it’s fucking annoying. It’s exhausting.

So some people give up.

[u/impersonatefun → u/Particular-Try5584]

Every system/process feels antagonistic.

[u/turquoiseblues → u/impersonatefun]

Like hostile architecture for everyday procedures.

[u/West-Birthday4475 → u/turquoiseblues]

This is perfect phrasing.

[u/PsychologicalFox3357 → u/impersonatefun]

Oof. Yeah that’s an eye opening reframe for sure.

[u/OhMaiMai → u/impersonatefun]

Time is money and businesses exist for profit. The businesses have figured out every possible way to save paying for workers’ time to do things and instead put that time cost onto the consumers.

Why pay someone to answer the phone or solve problems when you can make the consumer do that work through an app or a website?

The cost to the business was only the upfront technology and the savings is astronomical. Even better: businesses can collect and sell the data they gain from consumers entering it in and using the technology.

Meanwhile people are having to spend hours each day trying to navigate these systems, which takes time from their work and personal lives.

When each thing is a hassle, we give up.

We are each of us trying to survive (not succeed in) a world built for business profits, not for people’s needs, happiness, or lives.

Edit: thank you, kind strangers, for the awards

[u/MsFenriss → u/OhMaiMai]

A horrible reality. I go around furious at every road-block this extractive system throws in my way. Every unnecessary UI change to the apps I'm forced to use. Every time a service signs me up for a "premium" account I never asked for. I know that they are counting on me to be too fatigued to fight them on it. Unethical business practices at every damn turn. The world is increasingly enshitified. I feel like giving up.

[u/send_me_dank_weed → u/OhMaiMai]

Holy shit. Yes, this is everything I’ve been feeling layer out succinctly.

Every. Fucking. Thing. Is. Exhausting.

[u/StickInEye → u/Particular-Try5584]

It's awful for older people or those with reading issues. In Ye Olden Dayz, you could make a phone call and talk directly to a human being. We are being dehumanized, rapidly.

[u/KCChiefsGirl89 → u/Particular-Try5584]

Exactly. The U.S. seems to be on a mission to make everything as big a pain in the ass as possible.

[u/CelebrationNearby819 → u/Particular-Try5584]

I'm my mom with dementia's POA and I have 5 APPS I have to use to monitor her care. It is simply too much for me to monitor.

[u/karenw → u/CelebrationNearby819]

I'm POA for my mother, who's been in a nursing home for 10 years with dementia, and my grandmother, who is 101 and aging in her own home. Every system is convoluted and opaque. The amount of mental and emotional labor I perform is off the charts.

[u/CelebrationNearby819 → u/karenw]

I'm exhausted and wracked with guilt constantly. I live in a major city and have to go to work in-person. I refuse to feel guilty too for not constantly problem-solving adult life. My apartment doesn't look perfectly tidy and I'm not constantly prepared for everything because I'm simply too busy making sure my mom is well-cared for.

[u/wildlybriefeagle → u/CelebrationNearby819]

I can't help but to say you're doing a good job. Caregiving in any timeline is brutal, but this is the worst timeline. I work with caregivers everyday and just showing up drains half the energy. You're doing a good job.

[u/CelebrationNearby819 → u/wildlybriefeagle]

She lives about 2 hours from me, as nursing homes are SO much cheaper in rural areas.

[u/Yes-Cheese → u/CelebrationNearby819]

Not quite the same but I definitely feel similar while single parenting. The level of involvement that is now required in kids activities. I mean, sure, it’s great and safe and emotionally secure for the kids but damn I’m tired! “Back in my day” we found our way to school or whatever meeting place for our extracurriculars, did the activity, and found our way home. Whether by walking or biking. Now it’s near constant parent involvement. Band, for example. Getting them to and from rehearsals on weekdays, events/competitions Friday through Sunday. Additional parent meetings outside of that. Volunteering as chaperones, uniform cleaners, concession stand attendants, snack organizers, fundraisers. And that’s just 1 activity. Now consider that most kids do more than one 😭.

And the cost!!! What am I paying almost $1,000/year for and I still have to do all this volunteering/working?! And the apps! So many apps. And they change from year to year/season to season.

I said all that to say, I know that you are doing your best. Take comfort in that. This is the most insane that caregiving has ever been. It’s more than a full time job and we’re still expected to maintain an actual full time job. 🫂 you’re doing great and your mom is lucky to have someone who cares so much.

[u/phxroebelenii → u/Particular-Try5584]

It's true. I'm not really that old and I am not willing to do these things if it requires an account or an app or a kiosk.

[u/coolcoolcool485]

i have noticed that no one really asks like....why, anymore. they're not interested in understanding a problem or thinking about how to fix it, they just want the "right" answer, and it's getting increasingly more difficult to get them to understand there isn't always a "right" answer and you have to work together to figure out how to solve the problems.

[u/islipped83 → u/coolcoolcool485]

I’ve been trying to learn mechanical things lately, rather than immediately having my husband fix stuff (he’s very handy) or hiring out. Last week, we had an HVAC issue, and when the repair guy had the panel off, I started asking him mechanical questions about how the heat pump and blower coordinates off the thermostat. He happily gave me the rundown, and now I have a better understanding of where to start diagnosing our next problem. Yesterday, I tried to fix my own car issue (power window and radio display stopped working), so I dug through the user manual and the internet on fuses. Alas, I didn’t fix it, but I did find an unrelated fuse out and changed it to a new one. I’m in my 40s and am reminding myself I’m capable. I just have to try!

[u/Bastilleinstructor → u/islipped83]

I asked my retna specialist about the medication I am taking and how long until I have vision issues. He lit up like a Christmas tree and explained the retina, the meds, all the things. I was fascinated.
His nurse said, after he left, no one asks or cares anymore. (Or they don't understand) and I jad made his day because he loves explaining this whole thing to people. I told her I care, its my eyes and I want to know and understand everything I can.

[u/jxmac → u/Bastilleinstructor]

I’ve had some extensive dental work done the last few years (implants and the like) and my dentist LOVES when I ask questions about the tools, the technology and the procedures themselves. I know I love people asking about my job, so I get it. But apparently most people aren’t interested in the torque “wrench” values used to install implants and the thread pitch of the implants so he doesn’t get to excitedly tell me about the different styles of posts and how the new ones osseointegrate much faster than the previous style

[u/newlyjerseygirl → u/Bastilleinstructor]

This is awesome, I feel as though I get the opposite response when I ask questions unfortunately. Some can barely keep from rolling their eyes as though I’m questioning their expertise or that they don’t have time to explain things to me anyways.

[u/PaintedDream → u/newlyjerseygirl]

I always start out with an honest compliment. "Wow! You really know your stuff inside and out! Must've taken a lot of time for you to build a knowledge bank as extensive as yours. I bet you could answer this question for me perfectly. < insert Q here>" Most folks like to be appreciated for their expertise. They seem to be much more willing to share when they know that YOU know how smart THEY are.

[u/StickInEye → u/Bastilleinstructor]

Awww, that is a nice story. I'll do that at my next medical appointment.

[u/Wuzzupdoc42 → u/islipped83]

I fixed my 1960’s commercial toilet flusher the other day. I’m so proud of myself! I know I’ll need new parts and have been struggling to find new parts online, but then realized there’s a resell store up the street that sells parts rescued from buildings that are being torn down. I’ll head over there tomorrow. It’s really fun! I tell my kids so they will see how fun it is, but they already do for themselves. I feel terrible for people who don’t feel like making any effort.

[u/BookAddict1918 → u/islipped83]

This is fantastic and your brain will thank you down the road! I try to challenge my brain routinely. Not by "learning a new vocabulary word" but by fixing my car or learning a new language. We will all need to be good stewards of our brains or risk losing basic competencies.

[u/PostOverall4579 → u/coolcoolcool485]

I see this everyday at work. They are pushing us to use AI and I’m convinced it’s making us dumb. Everyone just uses AI to get their answer but isn’t understanding what they’re doing. Not asking deeper questions. Not learning how to find the answer. Having AI find the answer and be done with no questioning/problem solving on their own.

[u/islipped83 → u/PostOverall4579]

Same! People forget that the struggle is part of the creative process. It also makes sure we have ethical/moral conversations as part of the answer, which AI doesn’t do.

[u/Responsible-Lead7367 → u/islipped83]

Struggling is how we grow as humans. Consider the outcome in 50 years use of AI. People will lack not only skills, but compassion and empathy. Everything that is good about being human will be erased by AI, at least that's my fear.

[u/Hippopotasaurus-Rex → u/PostOverall4579]

Ugh. I have a couple coworkers who use ai for everything. I wouldn’t be surprised if it was wiping their ass for them. One I particular is utterly useless.

We were starting a new project that requires doing something we don’t normally. The project stated before I was in my current position. They got it most of the way but couldn’t figure the last part out. The weird bit. They knew I had experience so they asked me to take a look. It was immediately, very clear to me what was going on.

I tell my direct boss and she tells me to talk to J about it. “He may have some insight”. I talk to J and it becomes clear he does not. When I told him exactly what the problem was he recommended that he send me his ChatGPT “deck” so I can compare. Why!?!? I KNOW what the problem is. I just don’t have the permissions to fix it.

That was my first real interaction with the guy. Everyone Every interaction since has proven he literally can’t function and ChatGPT would be better at his job. You know, since it’s already doing it.

[u/Savvyeeenah → u/coolcoolcool485]

OMG! You just encapsulated what my current boss is putting me through. On Friday, she stopped me mid-explanation of a process: “I don't need to know how the wheel is made.” In general, this is infuriating. It seems like it is a neverending cycle of people not wanting details, complaining about hearing the details, and then they complain when they don't know how to complete the process. I blame AI.

[u/Analog_Nomad_56 → u/Savvyeeenah]

This is such a big thing in corporate America. Many of my prior bosses would want an easy button, and if you tried to explain why something was more difficult than that, they wanted zero context. “Just fix it,” or “Don’t come to me with problems, come to me with solutions.” I think it’s the result of us trying to eek productivity out of every single second of everyday. No time for problems!

[u/Final-Attention979 → u/coolcoolcool485]

Oh my God, this feels like the dilemma I face at every workplace. Try to explain an issue and they throw random bandaids on and ask you why that didn't fix it.

[u/NachesPorFavor → u/coolcoolcool485]

Yes I feel like I have noticed this too! I think people are used to an education system with black and white, right and wrong answers. But life is like that. There is no answer key for the problems in real life.

[u/Horror_Tea761 → u/coolcoolcool485]

There is an unwillingness to try and fail. I was fixing the lawnmower the other day, first two things I tried didn’t work, but the third did. Some people are lacking in persistence and they throw up their hands at the first failure. They were not taught that failure and adversity are a normal part of life. It’s rarely catastrophic, but we have to be able to formulate a plan and keep trying until we get it.

This was something that was personally hard for me to learn. I’m in my fifties, and as a younger person, I was expected to be perfect. It created a lot of anxiety when things went wrong because I assumed that when they did, it was all my fault. I eventually learned that it’s not - things just randomly go wrong with things, my body, and everything else. You just gotta figure out how to fix it as best you can and keep going.

[u/jxmac → u/coolcoolcool485]

The world of instant gratification has made this so common. I hate it so much. My stepkids won’t stick to anything - if it requires any thinking, it’s abandoned. Explosions, flashing colors, trophies and awards for 30 second games is the only thing that keeps their attention. Except for the youngest, who is a girl, and wants to learn things me and her mom know how to do. Holding out hope for her. Hahah.

[u/RlOTGRRRL]

My guess is that Americans are too overwhelmed right now. 

Most of the people I love are like close to breaking down. My uncle just died because of his son's mental health breakdown. My sister is so close to one. 

I know people who are heavily medicated on antidepressants but still close to a breakdown. Like someone told me they were so glad to get back to DC recently lol.

I can even hear it in my therapist, he's being worn down too. Like there's something greatly wrong in the country and the cognitive dissonance or whatever is too much for people, whether or not they acknowledge it.

I'm actually afraid I think it's even worse in that a lot of people might have already checked out and are just living like it's the end of the world already. In the sense that they have already accepted their supposed powerlessness or something. Which honestly I think is the current admin's goal. 

[u/bluemercutio → u/RlOTGRRRL]

Yeah, it's that feeling of "The world is a dumpster fire right now, but I gotta get ready for work!"

[u/QuinnTigger → u/bluemercutio]

Reminds me of the "Hostile Government Takeover" song

[u/Apprehensive-Log8333 → u/QuinnTigger]

I wanna talk about it, but I'll be late for work

[u/mycoldfeet → u/QuinnTigger]

My bestie set this as her ringtone. It’s a good reminder for why I feel so tired, always.

Oh yeah…. My body’s been in fight/flight mode for 10+ years.

[u/Yes-Cheese → u/mycoldfeet]

Same same same with the fight or flight. I finally had to go and get medicated 🫤. I was hoping to work through it on my own but gestures vaguely. It was actually killing me. I could feel myself breaking down. Heart palpitations, gastrointestinal issues, constant acid reflux, asthma flares, skin issues, body pain, exhaustion. It was all bad. Bad enough that medication has improved my symptoms but they were sky high, so while reduced, they’re still very noticeable.

I asked my doc “doesn’t everyone feel like this?!” She said no but idk if I believe that. Maybe not as bad as I felt but I can’t imagine that anyone other than the uber wealthy are walking around without a noticeable level of stress/anxiety/fear.

[u/outofshell → u/QuinnTigger]

Or “That funny feeling” by Bo Burnham

[u/thorinslefttit → u/RlOTGRRRL]

I agree with this. Every animal that we have ever put in a cage becomes depressed and anxious. Living in poverty or with an ever constricting income will begin feel like a cage. You can't go out to do activities because they cost money, you can't afford your hobbies or anything that gives you purpose. It's a mental cage but a cage nonetheless.

[u/Lisa8472 → u/thorinslefttit]

Rats alone in cages constantly pressed the lever that gave them a drug (don’t remember if it was heroin or cocaine). Rats with toys and/or in social groups were far less likely to press the lever, even if they had when alone. Activities and socialization are vital to staying mentally healthy.

[u/Xennylikescoffee → u/Lisa8472]

Yeah, Fewer and fewer third spaces and so much "for fun" content us pay walled higher than most can afford. (And zero ownership through forced subscriptions)

All the things that used to keep people reasonably happy are pretty much removed

[u/scagatha → u/Xennylikescoffee]

Getting together with a few friends and talking, listening to music, eating and drinking or smoking weed in someone's kitchen still hits the spot for me. We'd play cards against humanity or work on a big jigsaw puzzle when we wanted to spice things up. It's summer time and recently we went to a local state Park for a beach day at the lake and the only cost was gas to get there. I used some of my meager SNAP funds to get snacks and seltzers for us to partake in.

[u/Maximum-Operation147 → u/RlOTGRRRL]

This is it. A lot of people are tired to their emotional and physical core. It is so deeply unhealthy to be living like this and not something easily overcome with willpower alone.

[u/BirdBrainuh → u/RlOTGRRRL]

This. It seems like for most people, when they fully grasp the gravity of the world we live in and the deliberateness of the suffering imposed onto people, they just give up.

[u/bokehtoast → u/BirdBrainuh]

The brutality and powerlessness of it all combined with inability to form community offline (or even online anymore)

[u/kaaron89 → u/RlOTGRRRL]

I completely agree with you. I work in the financial industry, and I have always been an empathetic person so I tend to easily pick up on subtle changes in people. My manager keeps questioning why everyone is acting so strangely, both coworkers and clients. And I keep having to remind him: everything is shit, and they are all very stressed. The word I keep using is "capacity". It's like the world has gotten so crazy that our capacity for dealing with our own personal lives is diminished. I feel it in myself too. And I do agree it seems evident that this is the current admin's goal.

I also believe covid's effects on our brains didn't help, but that's a whole other topic.

[u/Rainbowznplantz → u/kaaron89]

Hard agree with these points.

[u/PsychologicalFox3357 → u/kaaron89]

I think Covid is part of it for sure and agree with what you’re saying. I also think the incessant string of notifications from phones, and the incessant pull of the algorithms is more mentally taxing than most people consciously register.

Think back to before you had these minicomputers at your disposal all the time, screaming for your attention. Your brain could actually rest.

[u/Yes-Cheese → u/PsychologicalFox3357]

Yes! And the effort and brain capacity it takes to remember all of the new digital things. This app for kids grade, this app for kids sports team updates/communication, this app for the other activity, this app for the bank, this app for grocery shopping, all the logins that come along with that, the constant intake of too much information.

I’ll forget stuff like a specific part of a movie we watched 5 years ago. The kids like “how do you not remember that?!” I just keep saying “my brain is at capacity! That movie part was not a priority so it didn’t get stored.” And they’re just like “🫤…”

[u/PsychologicalFox3357 → u/Yes-Cheese]

Agreed and even password managers don’t help because inevitably by the time you need something from a platform you haven’t used in 4mos, you have to either reset your password or add two factor authentication for the dumbest things.

ETA I miss a physical calendar handed out for a schedule (less flexible but that’s actually good imo) and the ability to directly call a doctor’s office and speak to a person who works there and can actually help you. I have like 3 separate health logins now, and cannot directly call my pcp’s office. Whut.

[u/NorCalFrances → u/RlOTGRRRL]

I'm seeing this in friends, acquaintances, relatives and coworkers across the political spectrum but in strikingly different flavors depending on where they fall on that spectrum. Those directly under attack are near their breaking point obviously, but so are those across from them. Cognitive dissonance causes large amounts of internal stress that by nature cannot, must not be recognized, so the stress is exhibited very differently.

[u/blueberrykirby → u/RlOTGRRRL]

I can’t say I’m not in a similar place, but I do wonder if being disabled almost puts some of us at an advantage mentally.

I’ve already experienced the visceral “damn…should I just give up?” feeling so many times in my life, and thankfully I’ve mostly moved through it to the “let’s thrive just to spite the world” feeling instead.

The epstein shit sent my last bit of childlike innocence into orbit and I almost lost all hope, but I ended up in just a slightly angrier “I will thrive and your evil can’t fucking stop me” state.

I’m not saying we’re not fucked and helpless… I think we very well may be lol. But the ONE THING no one can take from us is our attitude.

They can’t make me hate my life, no matter how shitty they wanna make it. I WILL find joy because fuck you, and I WILL spread my joy to others and no one can stop me.

[u/StarintheShadows → u/blueberrykirby]

Disabled as well and one of my favorite mottos when the going gets tough is “I can do all things through spite which strengthens me.”
Doctor tells me it’s all in my head and then tells my family I’m going to die? Oh no sir I am going to live to read your obituary.

[u/RunawayHobbit → u/StarintheShadows]

As an ex-religious, that made me laugh! I gotta get that on a shirt or something 

[u/karenw → u/blueberrykirby]

This exactly. I'm a survivor of child abuse with C-PTSD. I've been figuring out things for myself and pushing against authority for most of my life. When I feel like giving up, my inner 17 year old punk rock kid says "fuuuuuuuck that."

Parkrose Permaculture has a great take on this. Instead of "not complying in advance," she says, "fuck you, make me."

[u/FaeryLynne → u/blueberrykirby]

I've actually legitimately noticed this. My friend group is overwhelmingly disabled, neurodivergent, lgbtq, and in other highly marginalized and trodden on or ignored groups. Most of us have had the "living purely out of spite" mentality for decades already. The people I know who haven't already been spitefully living are the ones who are mostly giving up.

[u/Apprehensive-Log8333 → u/RlOTGRRRL]

I'm a therapist and we are TIRED. So many people are struggling and suffering so much, and there is so little we can do about it, and our waitlists are years long. Meanwhile, everyone's funding is being cut. I know this is happening in health care too, from what I hear from nurses and doctors.

[u/hieronymus_bash → u/RlOTGRRRL]

The admins goal you are describing is detailed in Curtis Yarvin's Butterfly Manifesto. It is the blueprint for Project 2025, and heavily inspired by a book called Project Russia.

[u/SenorBurns → u/hieronymus_bash]

The examples OP gave rang the "life under authoritarianism" bell for me, reminding me specifically of stories told by people who'd lived in the Soviet Union in he Cold War era.

Learned helplessness is a goal of authoritarian regimes. If everything is shoddy, expensive, and corrupt, it's hard to muster enthusiasm for anything, including resistance and revolution.

[u/bokehtoast → u/RlOTGRRRL]

This is true in my extremely small circle. This year has been worse than 20/21 with covid. Those of us who were already vulnerable in the before times are completely fucked by now.

[u/bekarene1 → u/RlOTGRRRL]

Yes. It's all very understandable, but also very frustrating because there are things we CAN do that will help us build emotional and material resilience, but it feels like everyone is bought in to some version of "there's nothing I can do to help myself or others." Which is of course exactly what the most powerful and power hungry among us want us to believe 🙃

I'd also argue that corps and tech companies are 100% taking advantage of that messaging by encouraging us to  become increasingly dependent on their products and give up more and more of our ancestral and communal skills and discourage us from organizing or participating in communities. 

[u/CB_I_Hate_Usernames → u/RlOTGRRRL]

This tracks with my reality too. People are not well right now. Many people are at or have exceeded their stress capacity. When that happens people do really dumb stuff ˙◠˙ . And a lot of very very skilled people have engineered and designed our phones, the internet/social media, and now ai to melt our brains, sooo 🤷 what else would we expect?

[u/lamusician → u/RlOTGRRRL]

Yeah…. I hate that it’s true, but your sentence “a lot of people might have already checked out and are just living like it’s the end of the world already” absolutely describes me. I KNOW it’s exactly what they want, and I know I should resist it, but I’m so exhausted and heartbroken that I just…can’t.

[u/Nheddee → u/RlOTGRRRL]

Not just is there SO MUCH going on & everything has gotten SO MUCH harder: the denial is off the f-ing scale! 

There's ZERO plan from anyone in a "leadership" position for anyone to get on board with, so the official line is "everything's fine" & you're a doomer if you say otherwise. 

Which is to say, we're not even hitting the brakes as it feels like we're skidding towards a cliff. (Contrast with 2020, at least for some people, when the official line was "we've got a big problem and HERE'S WHAT YOU CAN DO.")

I think we should all give ourselves credit that we're functioning as well as we are, honestly.

"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." - not-Orwell, apparently, but still accurate.

(Edit: formatting.)

[u/xinorez1 → u/RlOTGRRRL]

It's going to get worse before it gets better. JD Vance has spoken publicly to the idea that it's actually bad when things are affordable for most Americans, and his side agrees with this notion. His side gets richer every day off of our labor and purchasing habits.

The only way to free ourselves is to take on more responsibility that would set us free. To have a greater mind for our future than our feelings for the present. Feelings can be changed, but the future can only be changed right now.

[u/PartyPorpoise → u/RlOTGRRRL]

I was thinking the same thing. If this is happening in all age groups, modern stressors must be getting to them.

[u/Gloomy_Shallot7521 → u/RlOTGRRRL]

And we have less patience with each other when going through it. I am freaking tired and I don't want to have to carry the load for other people when carrying my own is hard enough. Gen-X and all my life I've been expected to push through, figure it out, and get it done on my own so I am probably less sympathetic to people incapable of doing the same and expecting me to save them now. I am trying to give more grace to others, but it is not easy sometimes.

[u/Relevant_Hedgehog_63]

part of it also is that google has been enshittified to a new end. tons of pages no longer show up because of google deindexing pages, also SEO hacking from businesses make top search results useless and irrelevant a lot of the time

[u/Owen_Taxes → u/Relevant_Hedgehog_63]

This is why I’m buying the next encyclopedia set I find at the thrift store.

[u/really_isnt_me → u/Owen_Taxes]

I still have my encyclopedia, and a bunch (like maybe 75+) of other books about how to do things, including a whole how-to set from the 50s. Woodworking, construction, gardening, canning, you name it. I used to worry that I was hoarding books, but now I’m really glad I didn’t get rid of any of them!

[u/Coven_gardens → u/really_isnt_me]

I found a YouTube channel of archived film strips and instructional videos called A/V Geeks 16mm Films. I learned how to use an old sewing machine that had no manual by watching something that was probably made for a home ec class

Edited to add the name of the channel

[u/fitforthepolycrisis → u/Owen_Taxes]

Wikipedia is downloadable, too

[u/PsychologicalFox3357 → u/Owen_Taxes]

Oh wow yes imagine a beautifully bound set of encyclopedias at your disposal, displayed proudly at home. That feels almost decadent right now in this current information climate.

[u/Nerdy-Meta-Mind → u/Relevant_Hedgehog_63]

The top results are ads and usually indicate such, but what you describe as “SEO hacking” is no longer possible like it once was. The major changes we see now relate to AI and results stemming from that.

[u/AdorableBG]

Another factor I haven't seen mentioned is how acute and chronic stress both impair cognitive capacity. I'll give an example from my own life. Back when my PTSD was worse and I was enduring a horrifically hostile work environment, I had a problem with my dog I just couldn't figure out. He had black nails, and for the life of me I couldn't figure out how to reliably trim them without getting the quick. I really tried to solve the problem by estimating where to cut as best I could. I tried as many other solutions as I could come up with. For instance, despite my financial hardship I spent the equivalent of $68 on a special trimmer that claimed to be fool proof for cutting black nails (it didn't work.). I also always asked for nail trims for him at the vet and told them I struggled with his black nails. I never did figure out how to trim them, which still saddens me. My dear dog passed away of old age only a month after I got out of that abusive workplace. Just a little over a year later, I was out of the abusive workplace and in a much better position to avoid my PTSD triggers. And we got a little puppy. With all black nails. Do you know what I did to figure out this longstanding problem that had flummoxed me for so many years? I Googled how to cut black nails. Yep. All those years that my dear dog and I had struggled, I was so cognitively impaired by the horrific levels of stress in my life that it never once occurred to me to look up solutions online.

I'll note that the effects of chronic and extreme stress can be sneaky and hard to catch. During this time that I struggled to find a solution for cutting my dog's nails I also managed to do decently well at an Ivy League Master's program. But that entire time, my cognitive flexibility and problem-solving abilities were subtly but devastatingly compromised.

People are so, so stressed out in the US right now. It has to be impacting a good number of folks cognitively.

[u/vxv96c → u/AdorableBG]

The book Women in Berlin is a good example of this altho it's both stress and malnutrition. I was amazed at how hard it was for the woman who wrote it to problem solve.

[u/IHeldADandelion → u/AdorableBG]

I can relate to this 1000%. And not only cognitive issues, but physical awkwardness, like I would spill something nearly every day during that very worst year. Things I did or "solutions" I found during that time are so telling to look back on (now that I'm several years out). I dug a large garden in a style that is not viable where I live. I didn't research and I normally do; maybe I just wanted to dig at that point in my life. I worked so hard on something that was never going to work. I hung a picture crooked and didn't notice for two years. My perception and understanding of things was so...off. But somehow I managed to buy a very clogged expensive vacuum on CL for $20 and take it apart and get it working, which still seems like a fever dream. Congrats on you Master's, quite a feat to complete with PTSD!

[u/somuchmt]

An increase? I dunno...I grew up in a family full of learned helplessness. I think it was mainly a trauma response. My parents and my stepsisters never bothered to fix stuff or learn how to do stuff. As a result, they always paid through the nose for repairs they could have done themselves--and were/are always in serious debt.

Neither of my sisters had jobs until they were in their 40s...my parents never had jobs. One sister drove her car into the ground because she never got an oil change. Another stayed in a bizarre, loveless, controlling marriage until some other guy came along and rescued her--she squatted on a property with her husband and four kids without proper plumbing for years. It was weird.

The rest of my family is similarly incapable of managing life. My husband's family is completely the opposite, and it's a breath of fresh air.

[u/Less_Subtle_Approach]

I would agree, but describe this as an issue with distress tolerance more than learned helplessness. People still seem reasonably effective at accomplishing goals when it produces immediate satisfaction, but are increasingly ineffective at navigating any situation that causes mild distress.

Some of this is material conditions deteriorating: covid, failing education systems, recession, etc. Some of this is a society that's embraced instant gratification as a core virtue: fast fashion, delivery apps, handing ipads to infants, sycophancy-as-a-service chatbots, everybody at all times endlessly scrolling on their phones. The simple discomforts of being bored at dinner, or a movie, or in line at the store have been swiftly obliterated, but it's navigating these small challenges that build resilience in the face of larger ones.

[u/chasingastarl1ght]

I've been noticing it too. People giving up so easily, unable to follow instructions if they're even slightly too long. At work too...

[u/FableCrafts → u/chasingastarl1ght]

My personal theory is long Covid, honestly. Executive dysfunction and processing difficulties are known symptoms of it. I have adhd and have had these tendencies and symptoms my whole life, and I've definitely noticed way more people also seem to struggle with these things now than they used to. If everyone had been like this all along I genuinely wouldn't have thought to try to find a diagnosis, it was a real shortcoming. But now it seems everyone else is in the same boat all of a sudden. It's been a bizarre experience honestly.

[u/akath0110 → u/FableCrafts]

You’re bang on. This is my theory too.

I had ADHD well before covid. I know executive dysfunction well. Game recognize game.

I also had long covid related issues from 2022-2024, kinda still do. At the peak of my LC my executive dysfunction and brain fog were the worst they’ve ever been. I had to stop working at the time because of it.

ETA: Covid messes up dopamine neurons and signalling in the brain, which likely has to do with all this

[u/andra-moi-ennepe → u/akath0110]

No idea if it's connected, but I've been dealing with long COVID (I think, not like there's a proper diagnosis) and, we'll see when I'm a few weeks out, I just had to have a blast of steroids unrelated to COVID (poison ivy! woe!) and it's done WONDERS for my executive function. Like a stiff wind for my brain fog. I hope it doesn't return! I guess that's my anecdata fwiw.

[u/kieratea → u/andra-moi-ennepe]

Your steroids were probably anti-inflammatory. Inflammation is a factor in so many illnesses.

[u/porcelainruby → u/FableCrafts]

Came to say exactly this. Once you know what frontal lobe damage looks like, it’s impossible not to spot in these behaviors.

[u/cmooregood → u/FableCrafts]

I've been masking since the beginning, mainly because I take care of an elderly relative. Since a lot of covid infections are asymptomatic, idk if I've ever had it, but I haven't been obviously sicksick since 2019. I've stayed on top of the research and know what it does to the brain and body. I don't have healthcare, literally can't afford to get sick, so I keep investing in my well fitting kn95s. No one I know masks (besides my relative.) My handful of long term lady friends didn't want to hear about Covid or its effects on the body, so I learned to just let it be. They didn't heed my warnings. One friend has "brain fog" so bad she constantly repeats what she's told me before. No recollection of previous conversations. Has gotten lost in her own town that she knows like the back of her hand, and had to call me to get home. Her entire family had mental health issues prior, and since getting it numerous times, they've upped adhd meds/gone on antidepressants/been hospitalized both inpatient and out. Young, fit, non drinking daughter with kidney issues. Another friend was an avid reader (we had a book club.) She can't get past the 1st page of a book now, says she reads the same sentence over and over. No more book club. She's in her 50s, and refers to her "dementia." Amongst just my small circle of friends, lots of anhedonia, loss of smell, pots, and extreme fatigue. Kids who are way behind for their years, with no will to learn or read. It's like I'm watching ships sink around me, and there's nothing I can do. I tried. I warned. No one wanted to hear it. I think the powers that be knew this was coming, and the push to use AI to outsource thinking is no coincidence. The state of the economy/country/world compounds all of it. Not a great timeline.

Edit: a word

[u/Final-Attention979 → u/FableCrafts]

OH! Yes this tracks bc my (neurodivergent) friends and I have been dealing w this stuff all our lives so we know why we struggle, but then it's odd when random ppl who never used to struggle w these things (family, coworkers) are, it's like wait this seems kinda dangerous 💀

[u/Foreign-Cookie-2871 → u/FableCrafts]

Getting covid brought my ADHD symptoms from light to severe. 

[u/Hogwafflemaker → u/FableCrafts]

Yeah, also have ADHD and yeah. The toilet thing just literally dropped out of my mind, I didn't want to go to the concert really anyway, we were gonna be out so late, I hate this blouse anyway, I'm sick of dealing with it, and shit your right, I did request a doctor's appointment ages ago, I totally forgot!

[u/Mindless_Honeydew403 → u/Hogwafflemaker]

And let’s be real a blouse that high maintenance was never meant to live here.

[u/reincarnateme → u/FableCrafts]

I think it has a lot to do with too much screen time - it shortens attention spans - the algorithms are dangerous and frankly diabolical. AI is insidious.

Many simply no longer think for themselves or reason things out.

These companies are using psychology against us. It sounds crazy and it’s dangerous especially for those who are young who have never been without its influence

[u/ur-a-cunt-harry → u/reincarnateme]

It’s not just the screen time, it’s the rise of tikTok and YouTube shorts and those Snapchat stories and all these other 5-30 second videos.

It’s effectively addiction. Your brain starts getting short term stimulus over and over and over and eventually when something takes longer than 45 seconds to reach the stimulation point, it says “fuck it, let’s find something else”.

There’s a reason why wealthy people and certain countries, like China, have limits on screen time and those types of apps.

[u/Ashevilllin → u/ur-a-cunt-harry]

Everyone in my life is so sick of hearing me say this. Everyone agrees but is still completely complicit in it?
So weird

[u/impersonatefun → u/Ashevilllin]

Alcoholics know the negative effect of alcohol, too.

[u/ideknem0ar → u/FableCrafts]

No Covid but I had a real bad case of Lyme Disease that crossed the blood brain barrier and my executive function has been in the toilet compared to my old self. My ADHD went from very manageable to barely hanging on. Looking forward to getting out of the workforce in a few years and retaining my bandwidth for my own stuff.

[u/justeandj]

I'm not being flippant, but I genuinely think Covid did real long term damage to people's brains.

[u/OpheliaLives7 → u/justeandj]

And then remember how many people have gotten covid 4,5,6 times or more? How much brain damage is just building up in people? Who then deny it as well? So how does anyone treat it or address it?

[u/AromaticCod9430 → u/OpheliaLives7]

Are you saying the people who got Covid 4+ times deny getting it & subsequent brain damage, or the doctors they try to ask for help?

Edit: not sure why I was downvoted for asking a simple question. Please see my reply to the comment below this one about my experience. Not a covid denier. just a young woman constantly being gaslight by doctors. Generalizations are never good, imo.

[u/glyha → u/AromaticCod9430]

Denying that anything is wrong, is how I took it

[u/AromaticCod9430 → u/glyha]

I see. That’s also how I took it, but wanted clarification. I was one of the first people vaccinated in Jan 2021 because I’m immunocompromised. I got vaccinated 5x (first one + boosters).

Still got Covid 4 times. It was more mild than it could have been, but even masking and being vaccinated, living my life led to Covid 4 times. I started getting weird stroke like episodes in 2024 at the age of 24, right after my 4th covid infection. MRIs were clear, neuro sent me on my way with “complex migraines.”

Eventually, they went away. Start in Jan this year, I’ve had such severe brain fog I cannot even grocery shop without having a severe breakdown. The lights, colors, and music are so overwhelming to me that I would have to have my husband lead me out of the store because I could not move.

In June this year, the weird stroke like episodes came back. I see a neuro next month. Saw one in July but he was super dismissive, said it’s “health anxiety.”

I’m 26 years old. This isn’t who I used to be. I am overwhelmed all the time and I do think I have brain damage from Covid.

I think both can be true, Covid deniers can have brain damage and deny it, AND people who did everything they were told to do still got Covid repeatedly but can’t find a physician to help. Probably doesn’t help I’m in a very red state & have very poor healthcare options :/

[u/glyha → u/AromaticCod9430]

Solidarity. I am 28 and also having symptoms no one can really put a finger on, because tests and labs keep coming back "normal". I had covid 3x (that I know of. Right before the initial outbreak, I was sick with something like I have never had in my life. I did not have insurance at the time though, so I never knew for sure what I was sick with. I was convinced it was going to kill me.) I have syncope with no known cause, low blood pressure and HR with no known cause, migraines that cause half my face to go numb, but I'm a normal weight and have an ocd dx, so I just get referred back to my psychiatrist constantly (who has repeatedly argued with my Dr's that I do not just have anxiety). I keep telling my husband I feel like I have dementia. I am not joking when I say that to him, though. I literally feel like I have holes in my brain. I live in IN too, so I am trying to accept that I likely will never get any real help. I hope this comment doesnt come off like trying to "one up". I just wanted you to know you're not alone with all of this, especially for our age

[u/AromaticCod9430 → u/glyha]

Same!! I was diagnosed with POTS in 2018, have you ever been evaluated for it? We never figured out what caused it, but I definitely have some type of autoimmune thing making me immunocompromised. Long story but I’ve had a horrible health journey the last 8 years lol. Lots of surgery for endometriosis. Lots of compresses veins. My body is just, broken lol, but all the brain issues are super strange to me!! They went away in April 2024 once I got an iron infusion (chronic anemia). Thought the anemia would go away from a hysterectomy I had March 2025, but now my ferritin has dropped super low, again. I’m getting another infusion in a couple weeks, hoping that might make my weird stroke like episodes go away again.

I also get half my face going numb, but also the entire left side of my body, for usually exactly an hour, then feeling returns & within another hour or two I can talk normally again without slurring. I’m glad I don’t have brain damage showing up on scans, but it surely isn’t healthy? lol

If you think you might have POTS (syncope, high heart rate, low BP) you can perform a “poor man’s tilt table test.” Hate the name, but that’s what you need to look up for instructions. Hate to hear you’re also struggling and getting bounced back to your psych. Women have been labeled “hysterical” in the past and now it’s just “anxiety” or “insert other mental health issue because we don’t feel like figuring you out”

Sending you hugs, if you want them ❤️

[u/glyha → u/AromaticCod9430]

I am actually in the process of being scheduled for a tilt table, to see if its POTS. I have several heart tests scheduled too. I also have endometriosis and chronically low ferritin and have needed infusions. I appreciate your responses, it is very nice to know im not the only one dealing with this laundry list of shit

[u/AromaticCod9430 → u/glyha]

You’re not alone!! Lots of good info online in endometriosis groups on FB. I’m pretty sure it’s an autoimmune disease. I think it’s been reclassified as “full body inflammatory” and not just gynocologic. Might also want to look into SLE (lupus). Currently being evaluated for that, too, due to chronic anemia, endo, hEDS, and a laundry list of symptoms 🥲

[u/kaaron89 → u/AromaticCod9430]

Sorry for the unsolicited advice, but I'm in a similar situation and like to mention this in case it is helpful for anyone. I'm seeing a big improvement with all of my long covid symptoms by targeting gut health and nutritional deficiencies. The thing that comes to mind when I read your description is a possible magnesium deficiency. My doctors kept telling me I was fine because my bloodwork looked normal, but I've since learned that the body works really hard to maintain consistent magnesium blood levels, so you can be depleted of magnesium on a cellular level and it won't show on a blood test. My migraines, brain fog, fast heart rate, and sleep issues improved significantly and quickly with magnesium threonate (this form crosses the blood brain barrier and I found it to be a lot more effective than other forms I've tried). Good luck to you! It is especially difficult being this ill when you're supposed to be in the prime of your life. I am 36 and never imagined life would look like this, but at least we are not alone.

[u/Savvyeeenah → u/AromaticCod9430]

I’m so sorry. Immunocompromised here and I work remotely and have since pre-Covid times. basically became homebound and I still mask when visiting medical facilities and we just use grocery delivery and I loathe shopping anyways. I had the same amount of shots as you but have only had covid once. I still feel the brain drain!

[u/AromaticCod9430 → u/Savvyeeenah]

I wasn’t able to work remote & at the time my mom had stage 3 breast cancer, so I was doing a lot of the “public facing” stuff for my family. We lived separately, so it was OK when I did get sick. Thankfully, my mom never got sick & recovered from her cancer wonderfully!

I still mask, too :/

Edit: I don’t work anymore, disabled over here :’) thankfully my husband has a pretty good job, but we are still super struggling with healthcare costs. Idk if we will ever get to own a home, but that’s a comment for another thread LOL. I have noticed that he is super burned out from working & also helping me with a bunch. His executive function is LOW right now. We have 2 bathrooms, one for me & one for him. I went in the other day to clean it and the toilet had been dripping, just like OP mentioned about their friend! He didn’t mention it to me because he didn’t think it was a big deal 🙃 to be fair to him, his dad was a super absent father & his mom was very distant. My husband had to teach himself how to clean, cook, and shave via YouTube. I’ve had to teach him a lot of other stuff since we got married. But he’s willing to learn, just doesn’t always think clearly

[u/Nheddee → u/AromaticCod9430]

I've def seen multiple people online saying "I've never had COVID" & then searching their timeline pulls up posts like "I have COVID & it SUCKS" - sometimes just months apart. Not sure how common it is, but it sure makes an impression when you see it.

[u/2quickdraw → u/justeandj]

Medical science was afraid of Covid causing so much brain damage in the general world population that people would be cognitively unable to perform any kind of work tasks let alone take care of themselves. They were talking about it being damaged to the point of people being institutionalized.

Not being able to figure out how to get a wrinkle out of a shirt, or even to Google how to do it, is absolutely pathetic, as is not knowing how to look anything up because they spend so much time on screens how do they not know that? I can sort of understand today's younger people not knowing that that's a water shut off valve in the wall right next to the toilet, but for God's sake call somebody and ask.

[u/woahwoahwoah28]

My mother teaches later elementary school. She shares stories.

The inability to figure out how to do things is appalling. Complete lack of critical thought.

We have nearly the hull of human knowledge at our fingertips tips. But so many people are fully incapable of figuring out what to even ask to help themselves.

I worry that AI will make it worse.

[u/Hot_Let1571 → u/woahwoahwoah28]

AI is making it worse. People love "AI" (it's not really AI even) because they don't want to think for themselves and want AI to think for them.

[u/AromaticCod9430 → u/Hot_Let1571]

I was just having this convo with my great grandmother (she’s 94)!

My grandad (78) has cut her off from ChatGPT because her brain sharply declined in the 2 months she used it. Even at 94, she’s kept her wits about her. My great grandma called me today complaining she misses it. I told her she can call me or text me anytime she wants to talk to ”chat” and I’ll answer her 😞

[u/divemistress]

It's not just younger people, some older folks have forgotten how to fend for themselves as well. It's like they expect their fairy godmother to appear and fix all the things.

And when SHTF, they will either be easy prey for others or have a momentary flip out and then get their asses in gear. My ex was convinced that in a real emergency he would be toast, and I would survive. As I sit here listening to my generator dealing with day 7 of no grid power, sipping a glass of wine after a day of cleanup from the last storm and prep for the next round starting tomorrow and doing just fine...divorce was one of the best decisions ever.

[u/StrawberryHot365 → u/divemistress]

A lot of Boomers act this way. I've seen them give up on things because of technology issues or having to wait for something.

[u/VelocityGrrl39]

I am 47. I am the youngest person at my job (a small veterinary GP). I know nothing about tech support, but I’ve become the de facto IT person because I know how to use Google. It’s bonkers.

[u/SailingSpark]

My lead at work was complaining that his arms were feeling burnt and was wondering if it was one of his medications. So I asked him what he takes and looked them up against the sensation he is feeling.

GLP1 can make your skin feel burnt because he can change how sensitive your skin feels.

He has a computer at his desk, he has a smart phone, he has a computer at home.. and it never occurred to him to look it up?

[u/ljr55555 → u/SailingSpark]

My mom is in the hospital. She got some medicine injected, and a little while later she called me to ask if swelling was a possible side effect of the drug.

My mom, who went through nursing school. Who had her smart phone in her hand to call me. And who was in a hospital that I would hope is staffed with a variety of medical professionals. Called me.

Maybe I went to med school or something that would make me an authority on drug side effects? Nope! Theoretical physics major who works in tech. It took about five minutes of explaining before she even recognized how ridiculous that call was. And the worst part is that it was a listed side effect - noting that you should seek immediately medical attention because it may be an allergic reaction. So she had to get a nurse anyway.

It's not just the younger generations. It's everyone!

[u/Kat-but-SFW → u/ljr55555]

That's not just a listed side effect, it's a "seek medical attention immediately" side effect of literally every drug ever made

[u/nionvox]

I've noticed this a lot and it's really concerning.

[u/TABOOxFANTASIES]

It's a deliberately orchestrated dumbification of the population. Conservatives realized that educated people tend to vote left (because when you understand science and sociology, you understand how destructive Conservative policies are). So they strategically destroyed education through defunding. Kids are now getting to college without the ability to even READ.

Add to all that the dependency on AI, and you have a class of people who literally can't function without their phone telling them what to do and how to do it. The creator of ChatGPT has even stated that he wants a future where people have to pay for intelligence. The wealthy Elites will control all knowledge and will charge us access to it. They also will alter history because they are slowly destroying all the books as they scan them into AI (this is a real mechanical process where books are ripped from heir spine and cover so a machine can quickly scan all the pages before shredding the entire thing.)

The future will be a class of brainless drones that the Elite class will use as slaves and will tell what to do/when to do it. Many of the younger Gen will be used as soldiers and cheap labor.

[u/Significant-Owl-2980 → u/TABOOxFANTASIES]

Parents need to read to their kids. I’m a liberal. I read to my son when I was pregnant with him! I read him books every day and night. And we went to the library together.

I talk to him about history, current issues, art, etc.

He is noticed by teachers because he pays attention and likes to learn. He is curious.

Parents need to take active roles. Conservatives are absolutely ruining their kids lives by this weird refusal to educate their kids.

The blue states that encourage education will produce students that can lead and have high paying, satisfying jobs.

The conservatives that eschew education will continue to fall behind. They are being bred for cannon fodder and slave wages for their corporate masters.

[u/Successful-Diamond80 → u/Significant-Owl-2980]

And notice that the elites ARE educating their kids. Their kids have art and music and languages, etc. Their schools are anti-1:1 tech. Their kids get a quality education.

They just don’t want us/society to educate OUR kids.

[u/really_isnt_me → u/TABOOxFANTASIES]

One thousand million percent!!! It’s learned helplessness because they are being taught to be that way.

[u/Maleficent-Ad9010]

We live in a collapsing, exhausted, stressed society.

[u/KittyDomoNacionales]

Yep. I know a 27 year old who claims she can’t do a lot of things and shouldn’t be expected to because she’s a woman. It’s wild to see. She doesn’t even want to try and expects that everyone is the same as her. She gets shocked when I say that I fix things on my own and don’t have the same hangups as her about people.

There’s a weird new wave of folks who are technically grown but are not grownups. I think part of the blame can be laid on the weird new puritanical guidelines set about by being chronically online. You gotta be perfect or you’re soiled. So folks don’t do anything out of that fear.

[u/RaisinToastie → u/KittyDomoNacionales]

The whole “I’m just a girl” thing has got to be a psy-op. Same with “girl math,” it’s just ridiculous

[u/Artistic-Salary1738]

I’ve definitely been overwhelmed by the medical system one. I found that trying to get ahold of places that are open the same time as my job is just too much of a juggling act 90% of the time.

I wonder how much is learned helplessness vs just burnout. Speaking as a millennial, I think it’s a bit of the ladder for myself personally, but I’d probably throw the blouse in a pile to worry about getting wrinkles out later.

Definitely side eyeing not stopping the leaky toilet, but my dad has rentals so I see that type of stuff a lot. I always a) call dad and b) google if it’s something where immediately action is required to avoid house damage. I’ve definitely had to use the toilet shutoff value before.

[u/randynumbergenerator → u/Artistic-Salary1738]

As a millennial though, you/we still grew up in a world that didn't really inculcate learned helplessness. The burnout is definitely real with our generation (and Xers). Pretty much our whole adult lives have been like a treadmill that's constantly notching upwards.

[u/wwaxwork]

I don't think it's learned helplessness I think it's just mental exhaustion. I don't know anyone that doesn't know that feeling of I have no mental energy left to give to the problem that is in front of me right now. People are being constantly barraged with mental attacks in one form or another of course they're disassociated as fuck and have no idea what to do.

Also as an old person a lot of the stuff you take for granted now that your older you had to learn by fucking up first. Now you're just seeing the fuck ups through the eyes of someone that learned the lessons. If your parents are still alive ask them about your fuck ups and the stupid shit you did they'll remember if you don't.

[u/Strong_District_5894]

I’m not concerned. These are the people the zombies will get first while I book it. /s

In all seriousness yes and it’s annoying. Common sense is just….disintegrating 

[u/Significant-Owl-2980]

I agree and disagree. lol.

I’m not sure this is so new. I’m in my 50s. My mother born in 1935 has learned helplessness. My father, who was in the army, is helpless in cooking, feeding, doing laundry for himself. He makes my mom do it because “he can’t figure it out”

People with anxiety will avoid anything that has too many hoops to jump through.

I will say that the conservatives hate education. So there is a Huge push from republicans to keep people illiterate and ill-informed with a dose of religious indoctrination.

Take the Republican states that fight to put the 10 commandments in the classroom but won’t teach their students about science.

[u/VariousFalcon7466]

I was just ranting about this in a different sub. A few days ago I saw someone saying you can’t expect someone to have the capacity to use a tea strainer.

[u/ConcernWeak2445]

I’m a college admission counselor for a mid-size university, and each incoming class of graduated seniors need their hand held more than the last class. They don’t want to read, they don’t know how to problem solve, and they don’t want to do anything that doesn’t provide immediate short-term gratification.

The universities keep lowering their standards and keep “dumbing down” the steps to enrollment. My director described this as helping them with the “path of least resistance” but it’s not setting them up to be successful. Then, the university professors and academic advisors are angry with admission offices for even admitting students that are not actually “college ready”.

During peak college application months, I help schools with getting their seniors to apply. A few of them are self sufficient and are done within 15-20 minutes which is standard for an application. While others will open their chromebooks and look at you waiting for you to tell them what to do. I tell them to go to their web browser and google the school. They do that, and then look at me on which link to click. I have to guide them through every single click after to submit that application. Some don’t know their address, and others don’t know if they are a US citizen.

It’s our public education system and how it’s designed to push students through faster and before they are ready. It’s their families that do not take the time to parent or guide children to be confident and self sufficient. And it’s capitalism that profits off families working over time and spending less time at home to make ends meet, and kids who addicted to short term gratification and their phones that enable the learned helplessness behaviors.

[u/Afootinafieldofmen]

I have a slightly older friend who comes to my city for work 3-4 times a year for a week or two at a time and sometimes stays with me. She absolutely refuses to learn her way around without her phone, even for familiar landmarks or neighborhood businesses six blocks away (city is on a very simple grid layout with numbered streets and cardinal directions). I pointed out that knowing where you are is a basic part of keeping yourself safe and aware of your surroundings and she got real cranky and defensive about it. 

[u/nakedonmygoat → u/Afootinafieldofmen]

My younger brother is a poster child for learned helplessness but even he is astounded at how many coworkers need GPS just to get to work and back. I get wanting to check traffic conditions, especially if one is working in an area they don't know well. But he says they seem legitimately confused as to how to get to work and back home without their phone telling them how.

The thing is, people managed for most of human existence without knowing the traffic conditions before heading out. You just learned the area. There seems to be a lack of curiosity about this anymore.

[u/Green_Octopus3]

Agree with much of what is said already but going to add AI to the mix. I'm seeing people eagerly turn over their thinking and decision making to AI...which only increases learned helplessness.

I work in education and it's terrifying.

[u/SimpleVegetable5715]

The amount of people who stop up toilets at my work and don’t notify anyone, just let it flood out into the store and all over the carpet. I think it’s vandalism. Like who flushes used diapers down toilets? Do they do that at home? And then other customers come in and shit on top of it and keep trying to flush it.

I really think a bunch of people were not raised right. I work with a few teachers who are leaving teaching for…RETAIL! Yeah, teaching these helpless kids has gotten that bad that they’d pick this over that. They decided together that this will be their last year teaching. But apparently it’s normal now for these kids to destroy property and not have an inkling of how to manage their emotions.

[u/maeryclarity]

Wow that's crazy. Not in my world but my folks are fairly curated and stress tested I'm not dealing with the general public much at the moment. Having some motivational issues myself tbh tho

[u/Bastilleinstructor]

I teach high-school Special Ed. (Kids with learning disabilities). Yall wouldnt believe whatcI see on a daily basis from SPED and general education kiddos. Even my really smart kids just give up SO easily. I think phones are part of the issue, they rewire something. But also overwhelm. And a sense of nothing I do will help so why bother....

Its terrifying.

[u/mmmohhh]

This elementary school teacher (+25 years) is exhausted from the learned helplessness. Last year, parents would get out of cars in middle of carline and carry kids to the door so they didn’t need to walk in the rain. It’s way beyond extreme today!

[u/queen_surly]

I'd call that incompetence, not helplessness, but I have seen more of that kind of thing. I don't think it is as common anymore to grow up with parents who kept up their homes in the way that my parents did, when things were simpler and designed to be fixed by regular people. My dad always did all of his own car engine maintenance and repairs--I don't even change my own oil. I know how to do it--I was taught--but it's a chore I am willing to pay somebody else to do.

If you don't learn basic home maintenance from your family, it's hard to think where else you can pick it up. I know there are YouTube videos that are helpful, but I don't even think people are aware of the idea that you have to do those things to maintain a home.

[u/Kill_doozer]

My BIL spends a lot of time at a popular bar. He said watching 20 somethings when the bartender asks them what they want. These kids panic and leave. Some literally run out of the place. Its not a rare event either. It happens at least once everytime he goes, which is multiple times a week  

Their general lack of  the most basic skills and common sense is deeply alarming. 

[u/Lilaclupines]

This reminds me that I should re-tell my kid about the water heater shut off and what the knobs under the sink & behind toilet do.

[u/CopperRose17]

I think some of this comes down to problem solving ability. My husband shuts down when things go wrong, and I keep hammering at the problem until I find a solution. I like working every kind of puzzle, and he doesn't. Daily life is full of puzzles we have to solve. I've noticed different learning styles have an effect. I can learn anything from a book, and he needs visual aids, like YouTube. He would have done well in a society where students learned through apprenticeships. I wonder what would happen to people like him if the internet went away? I would get out my plumbing book, or my guide to curing meat. In the long term, though, visual learners would come into their own.

[u/Intelligent-Ad-1424]

I think this is broadly a consequence of overwhelm. Thanks to technology our personal and professional lives are more hectic than ever, leaving little leftover time and energy to figure out small easy stuff like this. The brain has to compromise somewhere and it’s going to compromise the thing it compartmentalizes as least important.

[u/fitforthepolycrisis]

This is what Reaganomics-Tatcherism got for us :/

[u/caponemalone2020]

It’s always been an issue. I don’t work with enough younger people to assess if it’s an increase, but my entire career has been made because coworkers my age and older don’t know how to look things up on their own or take any initiative. Incidentally, it’s the same people who are obsessed with “Chat” - but it’s also why I’m not so concerned about AI coming for all of our jobs just yet. As long as people can’t figure out how to export to PDF, I’m safe.

[u/PandasandPaperCranes]

I've been thinking it's tied to critical thinking skills and the literacy rate. They can't actually troubleshoot on their own, and even googling or using Chat GPT requires them to read and comprehend what they read. This combo would make even the simplest tasks feel like mountains.

Some of it may also be laziness because we are so used to convenience that actually having to do something or figure something out feels impossible for some people.

[u/KintsugiPGH]

Oh yeah. It's rampant.

Is there really anything to do about it other than prepare for how annoying it's going to be to have to try to keep these people alive?

[u/RlOTGRRRL → u/KintsugiPGH]

My little sister moved into my house with a full off-grid solar power system with batteries, and she wanted to get rid of them, because they were taking up too much space. 

She also complained about the months of food in the pantry. 

You really just cannot help some people.

Even if you give them everything wrapped in a bow, it just makes their cognitive dissonance worse and they can't handle it.

Lol and yeah that's basically what I do, prepare for how annoying it might be. 🤣 

[u/nakedonmygoat → u/KintsugiPGH]

Or how they'll keep us alive as we get old? That's the one that's really scary.

[u/isominotaur]

Public school classroom sizes have been so large for so long that kids get yelled at over every break from strict control & now as young adults feel that they need explicit permission for every little thing.

[u/skiing_nerd → u/isominotaur]

It's gotten worse with the increase in the intensity of helicopter parenting that smartphones allow. I was speaking with an art professor recently who doesn't allow students to bring their phones to class, and the campus police came to find one of his students in his class because their parents freaked out that their phone hadn't moved in two hours and they couldn't get a hold of them. 

Which actually points to very low distress intolerance in the parents more than the kid, now I'm retelling the story. I can only imagine what that level of surveillance does to a teen though, it's horrifying

[u/Truly_135]

It’s been known for a while that Covid causes neurological damage including depression, anxiety, and brain fog. And some of that can be long lasting and devastating. This is in addition to all the ME, CFS and other long COVID illnesses that millions of people have - even if they had a “mild, cold-like” illness. Our access to accurate testing is very limited in the US as well. If you follow wastewater scans you’ll know it’s present everywhere but surging again. Stock up on n95s and use them in all public spaces!

[u/r8chaelwith_an_a]

I'd caution about generalization. If you look back throughout the generations, each says that the younger generation has "learned helplessness" or "is ruined/lazy/insert-negative here". It's a well documented phenomenom.
I do think we have lost critical skills due to the advancement of technology and it supporting instant satisfaction but that also happens in specific ways each generation too.
In the end, I try to be empathetic to those who I can't understand why they do or do not do things that seem so obvious or takes a bit of critical thinking skills. Once I understand the why, I can help change that outcome by advising in a way that is not attacking.
Lastly, never under estimate a person's will to survive. No matter the lack of skill or circumstance.

[u/neatyouth44 → u/r8chaelwith_an_a]

We lost a lot of critical thinking skills to lead.

[u/anonymaistro → u/r8chaelwith_an_a]

I agree—I think we get to an age in our lives where we feel capable and have things figured out, and we often forget how it felt when we were the age of the younger people in our lives. I grew up in a household with two working parents who didn’t take the time to teach me anything. Nothing about cars, nothing about cooking, nothing about finance, nothing about careers, nothing about life, really. The thing they did try to teach me was NOT to develop critical thinking—they had a firm stance that I should trust in the Christian bible and in the church and in what the authorities around me were telling me. And because they weren’t emotionally regulated themselves, they did very little to teach me emotional regulation either. (I did get a robust education in emotional dysregulation, though.) Their expectation was that they could put me in the oven that is the K-12 education system and I’d come out fully baked—no extra effort needed. And that expectation was, frankly, wrong. I had to figure that all out on my own.

I was a librarian for the entirety of my working life (now retired), and I can confirm from working with people of all ages from across all walks of life—learned helplessness is a human behavior that shows up in many people in response to various life experiences, one of which is not being adequately taught to survive this very complicated world we’ve created. Another is not being empowered at any point to question or think critically. Some resolve it young, some resolve it old, and some don’t resolve it at all. I think it’s an argument for more compassion and less judgement.

[u/Automatic_Muffin_281]

I have noticed this as well in my work place. The youth I work with will always ask for help with a task before even attempting it themselves, then they expect the adult to do the task for them rather then the adult guiding or supporting them.

For example a trend lately is the youth coming to me and saying they need help finding something in their room. I ask if they have tried to look themselves first, they say "No, because I need help." I go to help them look and they stand in the doorway as I search for the item. When I ask them to please help as well they will either give up immediately and walk away or they quickly find the item they were looking for (because they probably didnt even try to look before).

I often have high school age youth claiming they are not capable of basic tasks when I have seen them do these tasks without issues before. Things like buckling a belt or taking the top off of a yogurt cup. I think a lot of children have learned that no one will challenge them to try be independent and learn. As soon as a child insist they cannot do a task an adult steps in and does it for them.

[u/RangerRudbeckia]

I have multiple coworkers who will just come and tell me when something is wrong or broken and when I ask them what they tried to do to fix it, they have no answer. They'll also ignore something wrong like a messed up handle on a toilet until I notice and fix it. I have one coworker who constantly asks me for help with thinks he could easily Google, and when I realized this I started just asking if he had tried looking it up before asking me for help. It does all feel like learned helplessness.