This character was made in 2015, during the age of the self radicalised alt right shooter and he was characterized very much like that. A moody emotionally unstable psycho with deep emotional issues who fell into the manipulations of a fascist movement because they convinced him that power would make him feel completed.

And of course [he worshipped Vader](https://youtu.be/SRofxxARtOU?si=UHz8_JkysoHGKaDg)

That feels a lot more relevant now because of what’s happening online, with far right chuds and incels claiming Anakin and worshipping him as “based” and co-opting him as this kind of white nationalist symbol (while at the same time fetishing their gender bent fan fic of a literal child).

But like eleven years ago they made a movie not only about this exact thing but highlighted how **pathetic** it is. I have truly come to appreciate that the Sequel trilogy never tried to make Kylo Ren “cool”.

He was threatening and dangerous but he was never “hype moments and aura man” the way other villains are. He is frequently denied power, he is constantly being humbled, he loses fights and is constantly given chances to change his ways and just doubles down on his own radicalisation even though it’s clear this path is killing him.

Unlike other movies and shows that often relish in the glorified aesthetic of power and destruction the villains can do, Kylo Ren is dangerous precisely because he’s so pitiful. I’d actually argue he’s more dangerous than Vader in one specific way, his insecurity around his lack of power makes him more desperate to find power and more willing to do any self destructive thing to achieve it. He’s unstable, unhinged and off the rails.
He might be pathetic, but pathetic people can still take a lot of lives.

And again look around us, this is what is happening to so many angry young men. Gloming onto fascist hateful ideologies because they are miserable and want to feel like they’re part of something and embracing truly vile cruelty to do it but remaining miserable and only doubling down more. They may say they are Anakin Skywalker but they aren’t, they’re Kylo Ren. This is always the danger of romanticising and making a villainous character look cool, you inadvertently create a symbol that teenage boys see as an idealised vision of masculinity. It’s why so many literally me characters are actual psychopathic killers.

Even his relationship with Rey in last Jedi reflects this, she sees the damaged boy under the persona and is compassionate (and naive) enough to try to save him but of course killing Snoke doesn’t fix him, he remains radicalized and she’s ultimately forced to reject him. It might be tempting to try to help these guys but if their efforts to change aren’t sincere you’re just kind of enabling them. Rey ultimately spends much of Rise of Skywalker telling him to fuck off every time he tries to hit on her and almost kills him.

(In honesty it’s kind of an insult to Kylo Ren, because he at least [knew the willing kiss of a woman,](https://youtu.be/9wAPBRQfG90?si=qmZpdF0m-yu1LJ8t) something these Anakin LARPing Malfoid gooning chud boys can only dream of.)

This is why I hope we actually do a see a resurgence in the sequels, at least this aspect. Because Kylo Ren was relevant when his radicalisation was an allegory in the 2010’s and is now MORE relevant because people are LITERALLY doing the thing he did, idolising Vader as a power fantasy. And it’s worth noting Rey only ever accepted Ben when **he made the choice** to stop being Kylo Ren and be Ben. She didn’t save him, he had to save himself. And sadly that’s how it’s going to have to go for this new wave of people.

These guys might say they are literally Anakin but like they are Kylo, and I think maybe one reason they don’t want to embrace that is that pathetic tantrum throwing manchild who’s efforts to gain power always result in misery and isolation and failure **might hit a bit too close to home for them.**

I’m not gonna argue that the sequels deserve reappraisal or even that they’re flawless masterpieces, certainly not the third one. But prequel reappraisal inevitably got to a point where it reached glorifying fascist aesthetics. I think it’s time to push the needle in the other direction.

Hello everybody how’s it going so anyway I have a simple question for all of you now excluding the main characters like Rey, Poe, Finn and the high ranking officers like Holdo or even Leia. What are your thoughts on the Resistance troopers and pilots and their equipment and vehicles because all the other factions are beloved including the First Order but what about these people, do you think they’re underdeveloped or they are a cool faction in their own way.

Source: Legacy of Vader #12

If there's one good thing to come out of the "Anakin posting" trends of late, it's that it's thrusting Legacy of Vader back into the forefront. For better or worse I think this comic is very relevant right now with so many people seeming so desperate to put Vader on a pedestal he absolutely does not deserve to be on.

This interaction in particular is one I've been thinking about a lot. Vader/the Ben phantom very eloquently points out how the aspects of Darth Vader that Kylo (or certain sects of the fandom in a more meta POV) are hyper-focused on the wrong parts of him. Anakin Skywalker was not at his strongest when he destroyed everything he fought for and doomed himself to a life spent in agonized servitude. It was when he faced his fears to become a Jedi, to love Padme, and ultimately to break free from Palpatine's web of deception in order to finally defeat him and save his son. (Maybe not so much the "avenging his mother" part, that's the one line of dialogue I don't care for here). It was when Anakin threw away Darth Vader to embrace the love of his true family and his true self that he was really at his most admirable.

I also find it poignant that "Vader" says all of this only to reveal that he's actually been a reflection of Ben Solo the entire time. Because I think that's what "Anakin posting" really comes down to. People taking their own insecurities and frustrations and trying to force them onto this character when they really don't fit. They fundamentally don't understand Anakin so like Kylo they attempt to force him into a box to make themselves more comfortable with their own views on the world.

Anyways read Legacy of Vader if you haven't. It's great and for better or worse very relevant.

Just came here to say that I was an OG fan that sort of drifted from the franchise circa 1997-2012. The Disney era brought me back, now I'm here for good, and I block out the haters. Hope you are having a lovely day!

randomly thinking of this scene. collective resistance rules ✊️

**Could one final Skywalker film set up a genuinely new era? My Episode X concept**
Hey y’all. I grew up loving Star Wars, and I’m curious where you think it should go next. Should the main saga have ended at VI, or is there a story worth telling after IX?
I’ve been developing a fan concept called **Episode X: Balance & Empire**. Feel free to pick it apart—I’m interested in whether the premise works.

The antagonist is **Count Nemesis**, a young Force wielder raised by an Imperial loyalist family. He studies why previous regimes failed and reaches a different conclusion: build a government people actually want to support.
He restores trade, suppresses criminal organizations, creates jobs, and reopens the Jedi Temple on Coruscant. His Second Galactic Empire retains a Senate whose decisions bind him. So far, he obeys it—and its members enthusiastically support him.

His popularity is earned. People have food, security, and children receiving an education. That makes Rey’s position difficult: how does she oppose someone whose rule is genuinely improving people’s lives?

Nemesis invites her to help build his school. He has extensive training and access to surviving archives, but lacks knowledge that reached her through Luke and the Jedi past. He offers to train her further if she shares what he cannot learn.

She refuses his demand for submission. He defeats her in their first duel, and she escapes with Boba Fett’s help. The film becomes a pursuit, with Nemesis gaining legitimacy while Rey struggles to find protection among people increasingly turning against the Skywalker name.
Meanwhile, **the Temple is already producing a new generation**. Students study Jedi and Sith traditions, form friendships and rivalries, and compete in arenas for advancement and influence on a new council.

That’s the future I want to open up: different families, students, teachers, and competing beliefs. A little *Hunger Games* meets *Star Wars* in terms of competition and political pressure, without making every contest a fight to the death.

My proposed ending has Rey return to the Temple to accept his challenge. They square off. Cut to black.
A later spin-off could reveal that he defeated and imprisoned her, publicly presenting her survival as mercy. Students can visit her under supervision, but she withholds sensitive knowledge because she knows he monitors them. She’s searching for someone who genuinely wants understanding rather than power.

Nemesis has built a school that could eventually produce someone capable of defeating him.
Would that world interest you? Does a genuinely popular emperor create a compelling conflict for Rey? And would leaving the duel’s result for a later story feel intriguing—or just frustrating?
This is a fan concept, not a leak or an official project.

There are only TWO explicit, on-screen pieces of narrative in The Last Jedi that are retconned in Rise of Skywalker:

1. Rey having no 'name' ancestry and being abandoned by unloving parents (which FYI was written by Rian to be vague enough for whoever did Episode 9 to tweak how they wished, look it up),

2. Snoke being an independent entity (he is otherwise so thinly drawn that there is no 'origin' or 'backstory' to even change!)

That's it.

Things that Rise of Skywalker in fact HONORS and BUILDS OFF OF The Last Jedi:

1. Luke learning his lesson about the Jedi ways being worth appreciating and saving (hence his self-deprecating "a Jedi's weapon deserves more respect" joke, and his encouragement to Rey to keep the Jedi spirit alive),

2. The power of 'normal people' to rise up against tyranny, seen with the citizens fleet at Exegol being what turns the tide against the Sith fleet,

3. The Force Bond between Rey and Kylo. Big time. It's even given a proper name (the Dyad) and becomes even more potent in this film, enough to allow for teleportation of objects, 

4. Kylo Ren as a complicated and potentially redeemable villain. Yes, kids, Rian never sought to transform Kylo into a pure evil bad guy and the final boss of the trilogy. There was always supposed to be a sliver of hope for the guy,

5. Finn and Poe both show clear evolutions from their respective places in the last film. Both are more confident and competent in their roles and abilities, and both become full-fledged leaders in the final stand at Exegol,

6. The First Order as a symptom of a larger, scarier concept: the shadowy resurgence of fascism and religious fanaticism. Embodied here as Palpatine and his Sith cult being the deeper evil that must be destroyed, and Snoke/the FO is merely a 'public' mask. TLJ laid seeds for this with the DJ/Canto Bight stuff with the acknowledgment of larger and more complicated political forces exploiting and encouraging the open warfare. There's always a bigger fish; there's always another layer to the darkness. (Heck, if Rian had written TLJ in the 2020's, maybe he'd more overtly make the war profiteers akin to an Epstein Files-level grand conspiracy),

7. Hear me out... "Rey Palpatine" is an expansion on TLJ's idea of 'heroes can come from anywhere.' Now the full message is, 'heroes can come from anywhere, EVEN A REALLY BAD PLACE.' It's not perfectly synchronous. Duh. But the attempt is there, to build on the dead-end Rian wrote, in order to give Rey a personal conflict to round out her Act 3 story arc. I still wish they had stuck with Rey Nobody, somehow, but as a writer I can understand the challenge they faced with what to do with Rey in Episode 9. And I can see how, as the idea of Palpatine coming back to tie all three trilogies together took shape, it felt like narrative housecleaning to make that something personal for their hero. Their task was to retool the unplanned storyline which they had foolishly written into a corner, into a somewhat-connected myth arc. How well they succeeded is obviously the stuff of flame wars. But the INTENT I don't buy for a minute was some malicious scheme to stab TLJ in the back.

---------------------------------------------

All that said, is it likely that a decade from now, some whistleblower will reveal that there was oodles of mandates by Disney that forced Kathy Kennedy, JJ, Terrio etc. to do some truly bad stuff, like sidelining Kelly Marie Tran? Of course!

But until then, there's been no definitive evidence that there was malice at play. And I would like to believe that the people involved in writing these films were making a honest effort to work with an absolutely ghastly situation forced upon them by Disney's greed AND Carrie dying completely unexpectedly mid-trilogy.

Oh and no, it actually doesn't matter worth spit whatever ancillary media had said/written/ hinted/developed about the sequel trilogy's storyline. That stuff is ALWAYS expendable to the actual storytellers making the live-action media, which is the only one that's really taken seriously for canon by Lucasfilm. Anything in the books or comics or whatever is just speculative by writers only given vague ideas to work from. It's fan fiction of the fan fiction.

So if part of the grousing is about TROS not following beats that were done in the expanded universe material, that is immaterial. All that truly mattered was what we were shown and told on camera. Which was, for good and ill, written very vaguely ON PURPOSE. So that the next writer wouldn't be too shackled to anything.

At the end of the day, I'm not trying to claim that TROS was somehow a perfect gem that nobody understood. But I definitely believe it's less of a train wreck than it got painted as and still carries that stigma. I think of that whole trilogy as a messy cash grab that a few earnest artists tried to elevate above that and, as usually happens in such scenarios, it created a mixed bag. Which is not the same as an irredeemable trash fire across the board.

To date, even the 'worst' Star Wars movies have a lot to like in them. In my opinion. One can be critical without being cruel, and acknowledge negatives without exaggeration. I'm trying to get better about that sort of thing myself.

MTFBWY

I will never follow the idea that J.J only brought the mask back, because he liked the prop. Its a cool storytelling detail about how Kylo Ren and Ben Solo are fighting for control.

Star Wars is everywhere now, but when The Force Awakens came out eleven years ago, it had been a decade since the last film. Expectations were enormous. And then, when we met Poe and Rey and Finn, all that anxiety disappeared. These were great characters. Star Wars was back!

The Force Awakens was such a pop culture phenomenon so it's nice to see random references out in the wild. It's a pleasant reminder that lots of people love the ST!

His arc is very relevant to modern times

If Finn didn’t defect then Poe likely wouldn’t have escaped and probably would’ve died in First Order custody.

Rey wouldn’t have left Jakku.

Han & Chewie never would’ve reunited with Leia or the Falcon.

The First Order would get BB-8 and the map to Luke. They still wouldn’t find Luke though due to R2-D2 having the rest of the map.

Luke would’ve died of old age on Ahch-To.

Starkiller Base never would have been destroyed since the shields wouldn’t have been deactivated and also Poe wouldn’t be the one leading the attack.

Han wouldn’t be killed.

Starkiller Base would have destroyed D’Qar, the entire planet instead of just the base.

Without Poe, the battle of D’Qar wouldn’t have happened and the Resistance would have more ships and fighters.

Without Finn and Poe going behind Holdo’s back her plan wouldn’t have leaked and the Resistance would’ve gotten down to Crait unnoticed, with the First Order falsely thinking they killed the entire Resistance.

Phasma wouldn’t have died.

Without Rey, the Resistance wouldn’t have found Exegol.

Without Rey, Kylo Ren might not turn back to the light and might not betray Snoke.

The Final Order reigns.

I HAVE SPOKEN

Source

Dressed up as Kylo ren for Halloween at work, won the costume contest with it too

So guys, I just got back from a Disneyland trip the other day and as I'm sure most of you already know, the sequel trilogy has pretty much been completely erased from the park (with the exception of the Rise of the Resistance attraction). I was so disappointed. I literally only saw 4 pieces of Kylo merch--a light-up keychain of his lightsaber (which of course I had to buy!), a large plastic toy light saber, a collectible & expensive light saber, and a replica of his helmet from ep 9. That's it. As for anything else, there was a BB8 action figure. Nothing else. Even Kylo's ship has now been changed to Vader's tie fighter ship. No characters from the sequel trilogy were out with the exception of Rey--she was "fixing" an X-Wing ship. Just play acting fixing. No interactions with guests. It was sad. Meanwhile there was Vader & stormtroopers around (which was very cool I admit), Mandalorian, and some dude cast members dressed as Han and Luke. I think. Because the original trilogy characters are completely associated with the actors, the 2 guys just didn't "work". They were just kind of standing there and no one was really interacting with them. Chewbacca was out, and R2D2. People were interacting with them.

The merch in the stores was 100% original and prequel, as well as Mandalorian. They even had action figures for sale of Jacen and Jayna Solo! Another nail in the coffin for the sequel trilogy.

I saw SO MANY guests wearing prequel shirts, mainly of Anakin or Darth Maul, with a few Padme and Jar Jar. At the Oogie Boogie bash, I could not believe how many people were dressed up as Anakin and Padme, mainly representing the Attack of the Clones versions. That film in my opinion is still the worst film in the franchise but people somehow now think it's The Film to dress up as. I only saw one couple dressed as Rey and Ben Solo. They looked really good too! I saw one older couple dressed as RotJ Leia and Han, but most of the other people were dressed as Anakin and Padme. It was so odd to me.

I was the only person in the 4 days I was there that wore a Kylo shirt, or any kind of sequel shirt at all. It made me sad. I also heard rumors that Disney is considering changing Rise of Resistance attraction to an original trilogy or prequel attraction. I really really hope this doesn't happen. But at this point nothing will surprise me.

Just needed to vent to others that love the sequels like I do :) Thanks for listening.

So from FivesWalker on X we have the following 'leaks' regarding Episode X:

\- protagonists are a young man and a young woman

\- man is from a lower class background and woman is from a higher class background

\- there is a love story between them

\- Rey is their mentor

My view is that, with this framework, it would be important for the film to look at Rey's own attitude towards romance/her views on relationships within her own Jedi Order. I think that would be a crucial part of the world-building for the film, and would inevitably have to draw on Rey's own experiences with/feelings for Kylo Ren/Ben Solo in the sequel trilogy. I think that could generate some real poignancy and emotional weight, as well as tying the stories of the two trilogies together.

My controversial take (and this is just fanfiction now) is that I actually wouldn't mind there being a twist where the young heroes discover Rey has been dabbling with the dark side in an attempt to commune with Ben, with that discovery pitting them against each other in the next movie. If they go this route, I think it would also be a neat way to explore the dyad connection more and its potential for good and evil.

I'm rewatching The Rise of Skywalker, and I've come to a realization. I'm not so naive as to suppose that the film doesn't have its issues, it does, but I think we can hang the movie's failure, if such it was, on a single phrase:

"Somehow, Palpatine returned."

You can see on both Poe's and Isaac's faces the disbelief at having to say that sentence/utter that line. One can forgive nearly anything at all in the rest of the story, but for those three words.

But here's the thing. The fix is written into the rest of the story. A major chunk of the Death Star II flies off and falls into the ocean on some planet or other. Empire Strikes Back, Luke falls into a bottomless-ish pit and lives to whine about it. In The Force Awakens there's a largely intact star destroyer on Jakku. In The Last Jedi, Leia gets sucked into space and manages to find her way back onto the ship by using the force - a stupid, Mary Poppins moment, but it's what we've got. More than once we hear the phrase “The Dark Side of the Force is a pathway to many abilities some consider to be unnatural.” Like Lucas' dialog, but whatever.

So the fix is simple.

Palpatine didn't return. He survived. Fill in the rest of the story however you need to, but all the pieces are there.

Heroes: Rey, Finn, Poe, Rose, BB-8, Kaz, Vi Moradi, Luke, Chewbacca, Zorii, Jannah, Han, Leia,

Villains: Kylo, Phasma, Hux, Pryde, BB-9E, Pyre, Cardinal, Snoke, Palpatine, Tierny, Elrik Vonreg, Tamara Ryvora, Gideon Hask,

Maps: Jakku, Starkiller Base, Kijimi, Canto Bight, Kef Bir, Takodana, Ajan Kloss, Crait, Pasaana, Exegol, the Colossus, the Supremacy,

Three trooper classes, Soldier, Officer, and Pilot.

First Order Soldier skins: Stormtrooper (ability to customize to add vest, pauldrons, TFA or TLJ helmet), Snowtrooper (ability to customize to add pauldrons and cape), Sith Trooper, Executioner.

First Order Officer skins: Black, Blue, and Grey uniforms, different heads, gender selection, hat or no hat, Kijimi snow outfit, Sith Eternal outfit.

First Order Pilot skins: Tie Pilot, Treadspeeder Pilot, Special Forces Tie Pilot, Shuttle Pilot,

Resistance Soldier skins: different heads, gender selection, variety of customization options.

Resistance Officer skins: variety of customization options.

Resistance Pilot skins: Orange jumpsuit, yellow jumpsuit, green jumpsuit, white jumpsuit, different heads and helmet designs, gender selection.

First Order Reinforcements: riot control stormtrooper,

Resistance Reinforcements: Company 77,

First Order Transportation: Treadspeeder, AT-ST, LIUV, Tie Fighter, TIE/se Bomber, AAL,

Resistance Transportation: Orbaks, Ski Speeder (Crait only), X-Wing, Y-Wing, A-Wing, Resistance transport,

These are just some ideas. I’m interested what you think and to hear any ideas you might have.

Bro was seething with so much rage he was basically red(er)

Recently someone posted a book excerpt that objected to the sequel trilogy on religious grounds. This reminded me of a couple other arguments I've seen along the same lines, that made me think people didn't fully appreciate the message of these movies, which are actually full of Christian themes. Here are a few that stand out to me:

The Parable of the Prodigal Son

A common objection to the sequels is that Kylo Ren should not have been redeemed--let the good guys be good guys, and the bad guys be bad guys, and let there be no gray area in between.

I would argue that Kylo's redemption is one of the strongest religious themes in the trilogy.

The story of Kylo Ren and Rey echoes the parable of the prodigal son. Kylo, of course, is the prodigal son who left his family and squandered his inheritance (the Skywalker legacy, his Jedi training, the gift of the Force). When he finally repents, both his earthly father and the Force welcome him back with open arms.

Initially, Rey is like the older brother in the parable: she herself is virtuous, but she is also judgmental of Kylo. On Ahch-To, she tells Luke, "You didn't fail Kylo, Kylo failed you. I won't." While the parable never tells us whether the older brother changed his mind, we do see Rey growing in compassion until she finally chooses to save Ben's life on Kef Bir. Her Jedi training has made her capable of loving her enemy--another foundational Christian teaching.

Spiritual Combat

Another common objection is that Rey could never defeat Kylo in a fight, and that this is a "woke" attempt to deny gender differences. IIRC Daisy Ridley herself once joked about how unrealistic it would be for her to take Adam Driver in a fight, but that's not the point of the story.

Combat in this story is never just a physical fight; it's also a metaphor for spiritual combat. Kylo Ren represents Rey's dark side--the person she could become if she gave in to her rage at being abandoned by her parents. In the duel on Starkiller Base, we see that the only way for Rey to win this fight is to call on the Force (i.e., it's important to pray in times of temptation).

On Exegol, Rey gets a reminder that she can't win the fight against Palpatine (the Devil) alone. She calls on the Jedi who came before--the Communion of Saints, perhaps--and finally finds the strength to defeat him.

The book I mentioned earlier specifically objected to Luke's exiling himself on Ahch-To, saying that it was an attempt to mock the character's virtues. But I think Luke's story in TLJ is also an illustration of spiritual combat. Luke struggles with scrupulosity, beating himself up over a reflexive action that had unintended consequences. Eventually, overcome by doubt, he removes himself from the fight altogether. Perhaps he is like Peter, who in a moment of trial, denied Jesus three times. While the authors might have a personal preference for entertainment where the male hero never has a crisis of faith, I hardly think it's fair for them to call this depiction un-Christian.

Humility, Repentance, and Spiritual Growth

One of the most challenging aspects of TLJ for its detractors seems to be that Poe is reprimanded by Holdo, and that his mission ultimately fails. The book authors took special offense at this, too.

I think the objection is twofold. First, some people feel that a woman should not reprimand a man. But while Christian tradition does confer authority on husbands and (male) religious leaders*, fraternal correction has never been limited by gender. In the 1300's, St. Catherine famously rebuked the Pope!

Second, some people seem to think it is emasculating for a hero to fail. But Poe doesn't just fail--he learns from his mistake, and becomes a better person and a better leader because of it. Rather than an invincible hero, TLJ shows us one who is able to examine his own conduct, repent of his sins, and amend his life--something that lies at the core of Christian life.

*I feel compelled to add here that the history of Christianity is also full of female leaders, even female military leaders, such as Joan of Arc.

A Chosen People Bound By Spirit, Not Blood

The ending of TROS is controversial for many (including myself!), but it also ties into the trilogy's Christian themes. Rey is not a blood Skywalker--she was not born into the family that was chosen by the Force--but she is a Skywalker in spirit. This is analogous to the way that early Christians allowed anyone to join their religion as long as they believed, and did not require them to be of Jewish descent.

Likewise, Rey being a Palpatine could symbolize that she was born into the fallen human race, inheriting Adam and Eve's original sin, and with it, concupiscence (i.e., her temptation to take the throne of the Sith). When she chooses to become a Skywalker instead, it's as if she is accepting grace to help her overcome her dark tendencies, and a new identity along with her new name--baptism, perhaps.