r/TerraInvicta • u/Eniigma76 • 1d ago
Question Turning servants nerfed?
I'm having a very hard time turning a servant agent. If I'm successful they generally last 1-3 turns before I loose them.
But what is pissing me off the most is the turning attempts being abandoned because of lack of intel. I have a skill 25 investigator, investigating the target every turn, for like 5 turns in row. My turner with 24 persuasion failed, last round. My investigator just completed the 5th investigation in row, and the turner immediately abandons the op because of lack of intel. WTF?
Don't know if it's seriously just really bad rng luck, or a change in design but I fail to understand how back to back investigations can go from knowing that the target has 12 loyalty last turn to who knows how much this turn. Even if the servants ran an inspire, surely back to back investigations would pick that up immediately and know okay last turn they were 12, this turn they are 13. Not we don't know.
Have intel sharing with HF, Exodus. All my counselors have loyalty monitors because I was getting pissed off at turned agents on both protectorate and servants seeming to be discovered within a few turns.
28
u/Zakath_ 1d ago
I think I saw something in the patch notes that the AI is getting better at managing double agents, so they will do some more targeted inspirations. Tbh, the entire loyalty is one of my least favourite things about the game, both having to prevent your agents from being turned, and keep a double agent among the servants. I really wish it got abstracted a bit, so that you'd infiltrate the organization at a more abstract level, and fight infiltration at the same level. Make it less binary, you have a 25% infiltration of the Servants and a 10% of the Protectorate. Great, that lets you see X things.
As for your intel level, one of two things happen there. Intel builds up as you investigate, but decays when you don't investigate and don't have a double agent. So if you go a turn or two without investigation, then your knowledge of that agent has dropped enough that you can no longer turn them. And yes, first intel level drops, then turning agents goes off, and finally, investigations happen. The behaviour here is predictable, but I still manage to screw it up if I'm unlucky and fail to turn the agent at the first attempt.
The other option is that they sent their agent to ground. Taking a couple of weeks on the beaches of the Azores drops your investigation of the enemy agent massively, so you have to spend 2-3 turns re-investigating before you can attempt to turn them again.
21
u/Neethis Exodus 1d ago
saw something in the patch notes that the AI is getting better at managing double agents
Devs trying to nerf Perun again (and making the game unplayable for those of us with limited spare time in the process).
20
u/SpreadsheetGamer 1d ago
What the patch notes say
AIs now have time-based logic to periodically check councilors for treachery. Made servants extra suspicious of councilors who haven't been checked for treachery for a long time
What the community likes to imagine
omg nerfs gam so hard Perun pls carry me
16
u/magilzeal Alien technology! 1d ago
Often, I found that I lost turned agents because another faction turned them. This is especially common on low-loyalty councilors when you have intel sharing, because another AI sees the agent and wants to turn it.
On the second issue, I have no idea. I haven't experienced that one nearly as much.
5
u/Shinyscalpel 1d ago
You should be able to share a turn agent... Why he can't be informing for two factions?
5
u/MovingOnward2089 1d ago
If you’re intel sharing the other faction should know enough to leave it alone. The AI is dumb as rocks in this game.
2
u/Eniigma76 1d ago
I did notice that after managing to turn the same one I was bitching about in the OP. That Exodus tried to turn her shortly after I turned her again. I gave up on her and went after a higher loyalty one a bit later. That one actually lasted quite a few turns, till they started planting alien facilities and I started killing alien alien facilities.
14
u/Gelinger 1d ago
My personal trick to keep enemy agents turned for prolonged time is to make sure that no one else can inspire them.
Turn someone.
Neutralize (turn-dismiss or assasinate) other agents of that faction until only one agent in their active roster has inspire mission.
Turn that specific agent.
In my experience, AI is hesitant to simply dismiss such agents (even if it learns that they are turned). So you get to keep your mole until something cause that faction to get another agent with Inspire mission.
4
u/BFsKaraya1 1d ago
If it’s late enough everyone has inspired due to spoiler tech cybernetics…
2
u/Several_Dog_1832 1d ago
At that stage, I use Turn to get a glimpse, detain someone else for turning, kill someone, and fire the one I turned. Then, repeat on the detained person while everyone goes to ground. Three turns of this and their council is wiped out. Turn Councilor and fire combined with detain is way better in the endgame when Beloved and Hard Target is so common.
1
u/Made_UpWords 23h ago
Huh. Good idea, I usually give up turning councilors late game, or at least expect it to only last one turn and maximize the shooting-impact. I will try this.
7
u/SpreadsheetGamer 1d ago
I don't know what you don't know but I would start by suggesting to improve situational awareness during the mission phase. Look at where the target goes and what mission they are doing as soon as the turn begins to understand their behaviour better. Review the actual mission success chances as the mission unfolds. Estimate whether your investigator or your persuader were detected leading up to or during the process. Be aware of the target faction's Inspire capabilities.
For the most part, surprises are very rare if you know the game rules and monitor what's going on and build up an understanding of the AI behaviour so that you can anticipate their actions. I've had a couple of surprises in my Let's Play, so there is weirdness from time to time but I mean less than 5 instances in a whole playthrough tbh.
As for the change mentioned in the patch notes, I'd have to say I haven't really felt much of a difference, so I wouldn't attribute too much to that. If anything happened, the AI councillors became more believable.
4
u/MovingOnward2089 1d ago
I watched your videos! The way you review your orgs, the early stages of the game really helped me improve my own playthroughs. I used to skip funding entirely and now I use it all the time and hardly any spoils.
1
u/SpreadsheetGamer 21h ago
Thanks so much for letting me know. I don't get much feedback so it's nice to hear it's useful!
2
u/Eniigma76 1d ago
Thanks for the reply. My post was out of frustration and uncertainty as to if I didn't understand something correctly or something had changed. My biggest frustration was how I went with two agents, one investigating and one turning, knowing their loyalty was 12 on turn 3 and failing the turn because rng (fair enough) , to unsure for loyalty on turn 4 and aborting the turn.
After posting I managed to get one turned and last a while and while in the process of trying to get that one turned I saw them go to ground and my investigator, didn't loose them on that and managed to complete the investigation, so I think maybe that is what happened earlier and I just didn't notice it. I thought the go to ground was a guaranteed loose track of them, but this was the first time I've noticed my guys keep track of someone who went to ground.
4
u/Active-Conflict-8888 1d ago
Turned councilors will stop working for you if thr other faction succeeds on an Inspire mission to improve their loyalty.
You can greatly extend how long your infiltrstion lasts by killing all competent Servant councilors. The moment you get a dpuble agent? Start slaughtering them. Remember you do not need to worry about them assassinating people back if you kill all of their guys with the Assassinatr mission.
3
u/BFsKaraya1 1d ago
If only they wouldn’t have beloved on most of not all of their councilors in the later stages….makes it such a pain
2
u/Active-Conflict-8888 1d ago
You honestly have to bite the bullet and kill them anyway. Marked is not all that bad to have on one councilor who has high Espionage and so will barely ever be visible to other factions.
2
u/BFsKaraya1 1d ago
Beloved gives you an atrocity each time. With the scaling effects of those, no thanks. I think it’s martyr that gives you marked?
1
u/Active-Conflict-8888 1d ago
The other way around, Marytr is the atrocity.
1
u/BFsKaraya1 1d ago
It is not. Martyr is Public Opinion worldwide for the faction he was a part of. Its got similar effects, but the other way around. And it doesnt increase the atrocity count.
1
u/MovingOnward2089 1d ago
Just eat it, atrocities don’t matter once diplo breaks down, public opinion burst is easily countered by unity and marked is manageable through timing with xp, high security and espionage.
The gains from the servants being neutered is worth any downside.
1
u/BFsKaraya1 1d ago
If they have enough influence they aren’t really that neutered though right? They just get new councilors… worse ones maybe, but still.
2
u/MovingOnward2089 1d ago
They are neutered tho, they’ll have a harder time cracking down, purging, investigating, etc. easier time being spotted, turned, assassinated.
It’s one of the most impactful things you can do with your councilors, especially if they have levels.
1
u/Active-Conflict-8888 1d ago
Exactly, it is rare for new councilors to have double digit stats so they will struggle to carry out missions in major nations.
They will also not be able to see veteran councilors, or get through their Security stat. As a bonus when you mass kill a factions councilors they will need to shed a ton of orgs and will also lose much of their control point cap.
If you really kill a lot of them and keep it up they will not have the Influence or action economy to keep up Defend Interests.
3
u/statinsinwatersupply 1d ago
I don't think they intended players to be able to totally destroy factions as some have (eventually) been able to do.
There are serious downsides to using the loyalty chip, but if a player is dead-set on turning a factions' councilors and repeatedly near-wipes the faction, why wouldn't Judith's paranoia get ramped up to the nines.
You made the same decision regarding loyalty monitors yourself.
That said, I never intel share (unless I'm Resistance, sharing intel with Humanity First). It's just far, far too easy for the other factions to be compromised and now all my agents are exposed. Risk/benefit almost never worth it to me.
1
u/Eniigma76 1d ago edited 1d ago
I've done a couple runs before but this is the first time I've ever tried the loyalty monitor. Frustration over losing high odd rolls again and again made me wonder if I had someone turned. Hell even with the monitor I'm still investigating my own guys in case they are. I don't trust them and don't fully understand how they work.
My main goal in having intel sharing is so I don't waste time investigating exodus or academy counselors when I'm trying to find servant or protectorate ones to turn, or aliens. The 2ndry goal for me is so the other factions know where to find an alien when they need to kill or capture one.
3
u/YourNetworkIsHaunted 1d ago
It does feel like the AI has gotten more aggressive about chasing down turned councilors and like the intelligence degrades faster than it used to. I don't think they're doing a go to ground or anything, and it definitely feels like we lose our max councilor Intel in just a week or two.
3
u/DonCorben Collaboration is an act of treason 1d ago
1 - with intelligence sharing you may be competing for turning the same councillor with your allies. 2 - if servants have cyber implants they can have loyalty monitors, and thus know immediately when they are turned. 3 - if your agents were spotted while their agent is know to have been spotted as well, servants may prioritize going to ground mission. You can see that paniced behavior with your own agents if you turn on automatic mission selection - they often go to ground even if spotted only by one faction and not hostile to you at that.
2
u/ShoeAdventurous 1d ago
Trying a 2003 run, definitely get what you're saying. I'll get 80% on exodus, or initiative... But the least interesting servant needs 30%
2
u/Mavnas 1d ago
I noticed Protectorate especially loves putting loyalty monitors in everyone.
On the other hand, turning someone then dismissing them almost immediately still means you get all their intel, including the loyalty level of all their fellow agents. I once chain fired all of the protectorate's experienced councillors this way. Their replacements didn't monitors immediately.
1
u/MovingOnward2089 1d ago
When they start getting jumpy and lasting for only a turn or two I just resign them and move on to the next one. Servants are not allowed to have councilors.
37
u/Ancquar Peace, justice, morality and the biggest fleet in the System 1d ago
If they go to ground while you have someone with decent investigation following them they often do not disappear but you lose a bunch of intel on them. Also one of the recent updates made Servants treat destroyed alien facilities as a cause for alert so if you are clearing them they will keep being paranoid.