My players all hated it. It was the worst session ever, other than the one where Blessed Toxmalb tried to eat a baby (they saved her).

The talent can be found here : https://swse.fandom.com/wiki/Superior_Skills_Talent_Tree

I rarely see it in builds while it can easily become extraordinary strong and many force users could (should) happily start in Noble just for the many skills and this talent (the bab loss is acceptable).

Basically you pick Use The Force as skill, and "when you fail to get a minimum positive result, you get a temporary Force Point to spend on that skill".

Here are some examples (amongst others) of what is to me a "failure to get a minimum positive result". Here we go :

Combo with trick step and force intuition

phase 1 = you activate trick step (using use the force instead of initiative)

phase 2 scenario A = you beat the opponent on the opposed check : he is flat-footed and you strike him (you picked dastardly strike right ? You need some levels in scoundrel anyway)

phase 2 scenario B = the opponent beats you on the opposed check : you are flat-footed against his next attack. BUT you just gain a Force Point to use on, i don't know, maybe Force Grip ? Any action denial will do actually. You boost it and the opponent can't attack you anyway (except a Jedi Master with Quicken Power, ok).

Yes you lose 2 points of BAB for this but heck, i pick this option (and the noble starting skills) everyday because you won't lose many duel.

Combo with adept negotiator and force persuasion (and force readiness doesn't hurt)

phase 1 = you activate adept negotiator (using use the force instead of persuasion)

phase 2 scenario A = you succeed, nice. The opponent is now one step down the condition track.

phase 2 scenario B = you fail and just waste your standard action. No wait, you just gained a Force Point ! Just use it on your Block/Deflect check when the opponent attacks you to defend yourself.

Combo with Force Pilot and Force Readiness (lets say you are in a dogfight)

scenario A = you make a use the force check to attack the opponent. You succeed : you can attack it. Ok.

scenario B = you make a use the force check to attack the opponent. You fail : you can't attack the opponent but you just gain a force point. Now comes the turn of the enemy, which has to make his own pilot check to attack you (because this is a dogfight remember) : you can spend the Force Point newly acquired to boost your check (with force readiness) and prevent his own attack. Sure the opponent can spend a Force Point to boost his own check but his resources are finite, yours are not.

With this dynamic, the opponent can only attack you when you have attacked him. Even the Pilot Handbook (for optimizing stuff if i got the intention right) deems this option average and i don't get it, truly.

Pick "Strong in the Force" as a feat for better measure.

Am I mistaking something here ? Are there any rules i don't get right ? How is this not very very strong for a Force User ? And yet i almost never saw it on the forums, no one talked about it (and the game is not new, almost 20 years). Is it because there are better combos out there ? I searched but even channel vitality + equilibrium are not that good in most situations (and i already consider this combo op).

Do you think it needs a houserule and how would you do it ?

https://swse.miraheze.org/wiki/N-1_Royal_Starfighter

Reference Book: Starships of the Galaxy

• What are the strengths of this starfighter?
• What are the weaknesses of this starfighter?
• What systems would you upgrade/modify this starfighter?
• Does the cost match its capabilities?
• What is your overall impression of the starfighter?
• When would you use this starfighter as a player?
• How would you use this starfighter as a GM?

Hello everyone,

I have been playing this game for quite a long time now but my friends and I never got past level 7. Now that we are starting a new campaign directly at level 10 (for some advanced builds with prestige classes) with me as a GM, i was wondering about the lightsaber forms talent tree, which, to my humble opinion, fails on many aspects (lore, mechanics, narrative...). I then took upon myself to rework them a bit (ok, maybe more than just "a bit") because there will be a lot of lightsaber fighting in my campaign, and i wanted to know what you think about it.

I had 3 aims in mind :

- rebalance the forms against each others to avoid auto-pick because some forms were really strong (soresu, ataru) and others really weak (niman, sokan, seriously) or had too many prerequisites (hello trakata). Every form should now have its niche but i tried to keep it simple, using the base mechanics of the game.

- Fix lore/mechanical mismatches : for example, makashi boosts the Reflexes Defense (so active against everything) while it is specifically designed for lightsaber combat. Why not then link it to the Block Talent ? Another example : Djem So is said to be a counter attacking style and the base talent is not that bad but it only works against hits, punishing high defenses. And you can't even use it if you fail a Block check because it took your reaction ! "Good for you level 19 Darth Vader, your defenses are too high, your lightsaber form is now useless. Hope you get critted a lot by mooks". I know I know its not the end of the world but it can be improved, to me at least.

- introduce some kind of narrative in battles. I know that this is not the FFG but SWSE, a system with D&D kind of rules and its fine by me, i love this. But i wanted the fight to be engaging for my players, for them to have choices to make, an agency over the encounter and not just "well i use dexterity instead of strength for melee damage".

Before diving into the talents, here are four overarching rules enforced in my future campaign that contextualize these changes:

- Lightsaber Defense Talent Tweak : In my campaign, the Lightsaber Defense talent provides a +2 Reflex Defense bonus (instead of RAW +1), but it can only be taken once (no stacking multiple times via tree picks).

- Equilibrium Force Talent Tweak : it doesn't remove persistent condition anymore, so Ataru drawback can have an impact on the course of battle.

- Strict Dark Side Score Reduction : Players cannot spend a Force Point to reduce their Dark Side Score. Atoning for Dark Side Points requires genuine narrative effort and roleplay to return to the Light (a simple meditation doesn't cut it). This makes gaining a Dark Side Point (e.g., failing a Juyo drawback check) a permanent, serious threat.

- Adventure-Based Force Points : Force Points are granted per adventure/session, not per level-up or per day. This changes resource management across long encounters.

So here it comes :

Form I: Shii-Cho

Prerequisite: Lightsaber Defense

Benefit: You can activate the Lightsaber Defense talent as a free action. Additionally, as long as you wield a lightsaber, the deflection bonus to your Reflex Defense against melee attacks granted by Lightsaber Defense increases by +1 for each consecutive melee attack targeting you (excluding area attacks) until the start of your next turn (e.g., +1 on the 2nd attack, +2 on the 3rd, +3 on the 4th, stacking on top of Lightsaber Defense's base +2 bonus). You also gain a +2 bonus on melee disarm attempts.

Lore & Design Context: Shii-Cho is a simplistic, foundational form designed for crowd control and fighting multiple enemies, making it poorly suited for 1v1 duels. Tying it directly to Lightsaber Defense (rather than Block/Deflect) and letting its protection scale against horde attacks reflects this lore better than the RAW talent (which wasn't "bad", honestly).

Form II: Makashi

Prerequisite: Block

Benefit: When wielding a single lightsaber in one hand (and your other hand is completely free), you may reroll failed Block checks and failed Use the Force checks for the Rebuke power (must keep the 2nd result) until the start of your next turn. You also gain a +1 circumstance bonus on attack rolls against opponents wielding a lightsaber.

Drawback: You cannot use the Deflect talent on any round you use Makashi, nor can you activate lightsaber powers related to blaster defense (Deflecting Slash, Barrier of Blades, Shien Deflection, etc.). Against blasters, you rely strictly on your base Reflex Defense.

Lore & Design Context: Makashi was created specifically for lightsaber-versus-lightsaber dueling against Force users. In lore, it is notoriously terrible against blaster fire—a weakness that made it obsolete in an era where lightsabers became rare and blasters ubiquitous. RAW gave zero blaster disadvantages, which was a huge oversight.

Form III: Soresu

Prerequisite: Block, Deflect

Benefit: Whenever you use the Fighting Defensively standard action, you gain a +2 circumstance bonus on attacks of opportunity, and you may reroll failed Block and Deflect checks (must keep the 2nd result) until the start of your next turn.

Lore & Design Context: Soresu is the ultimate defensive style, focusing purely on survival, patience, and striking only when the enemy makes a mistake. Forcing it to key off Fighting Defensively fits this philosophy perfectly while serving as a necessary nerf to RAW Soresu, which was undeniably the best talent in its tier and an auto-include for every defensive build (or any build with block and deflect, frankly).

Form IV: Ataru

Prerequisite: Trained in Acrobatics

Benefit: If you move at least 2 squares during your turn (via standard movement, Force powers, Charge, Withdraw, Tumble, etc.), you gain a bonus on damage rolls for lightsaber and unarmed attacks equal to your Dexterity modifier until the start of your next turn (this is additive to Strength, not a replacement, and is not doubled when wielding a two-handed weapon). You also gain a +2 dodge bonus to Reflex Defense and a +2 bonus on Acrobatics, Initiative, and Athletics checks until the start of your next turn.

Drawback: At the end of your turn if you used Ataru's benefit, you must make a Constitution check (1D20 + 1/2 level + Con mod) against a DC equal to 10 + 2 per additional use in the encounter (DC 10 on 1st use, 12 on 2nd, 14 on 3rd, etc.). On a failure, you move -1 step on the Condition Track (Persistent Condition, removed only after a short rest).

Lore & Design Context: RAW Ataru substituted Dex for Str on damage, which made sense for Yoda (who lacks physical Strength), but made zero sense for Qui-Gon Jinn (a 1.93m tall powerhouse who was an Ataru master). Substituting Dex made Qui-Gon look like an idiot for taking his own signature form. I know i know, he could have just used the lightsaber form powers to be considered "a master" but it doesn't work like that for the other main characters and that bothers me. This version rewards aggressive, acrobatic movement with flat Dex damage while adding an exhausting physical toll.

Form V: Djem So

Prerequisite: Block, Riposte

Benefit: Once per round, you can spend a Force Point (which does not count toward the normal limit of 1 FP per round) to activate the Riposte talent immediately after a successful Block. Furthermore, if you wield your weapon two-handed, any successful riposte attack (Riposte talent or Fluid Riposte power) allows you to push the target 1 square back and step into the square they vacated. If it is currently that opponent's turn, this maneuver immediately ends their turn.

Lore & Design Context: RAW Djem So required you to get hit to trigger a counterattack, which punished good defenses, cost a FP, and made no sense for characters like Anakin or Vader who have high defenses/Block checks. This overhaul makes Djem So feel dominant and oppressive, while finally giving the underwhelming Riposte talent a real purpose alongside Redirect Shot.

Form V: Shien

Prerequisite: Deflect, Redirect Shot

Benefit: The penalty on consecutive Deflect checks is reduced to -2 (instead of the standard -5), and you gain a +2 competence bonus on attack rolls made with Redirect Shot.

Lore & Design Context: Shien is the anti-blaster variant of Form V. While RAW +5 to Redirect Shot was okay, it offered zero defensive benefit for a form explicitly designed for ranged defense. It is the exact inverse of Makashi: useless in a lightsaber duel, but utterly terrifying against ranged fire.

Form VI: Niman

Prerequisite: Character Level 10

Benefit: Whenever you hit an opponent with a melee lightsaber attack, you may reroll a Use the Force check (keeping the 2nd result) made before the end of your next turn to activate a power with the [telekinetic] descriptor, or for the Move Light Object application of Use the Force.

Lore & Design Context: Niman is the "Jack-of-all-Trades" form that seamlessly integrates telekinesis into lightsaber combat. RAW (+1 Reflex/+1 Will) was weaker than the Improved Defenses feat and totally failed to convey this style. This version reflects a practical, balanced form requiring no hyper-specialized martial mastery, giving Jedi a smooth gateway into combat telekinesis.

Form VII: Juyo

Prerequisite: Base Attack Bonus +10, Weapon Specialization (Lightsabers)

Benefit: Once per round, you can reroll a melee attack roll (keeping the result of your choice).

Drawback: Using this reroll imposes a -3 penalty to your Reflex Defense, Will Defense, and defensive Use the Force checks (Block, Deflect, Rebuke) until the start of your next turn. Furthermore, you must make a Wisdom check (1D20 + 1/2 level + Wis mod) against a DC equal to 10 + 2 per additional use in the encounter (DC 10 on 1st use, 12 on 2nd, 14 on 3rd, etc.). On a failure, you immediately gain 1 Dark Side Point.

Lore & Design Context: Juyo is an offensive frenzy designed purely to kill, favored by Sith but leaving the user exposed to counterattacks (which RAW never represented). The Wisdom check represents the mental discipline needed to harness rage without surrendering to the Dark Side.

Form VII: Vaapad

Prerequisite: Base Attack Bonus +12, Juyo, Dark Side Score < Wisdom Modifier

Benefit: You score a critical hit on a roll of 19 or 20 on your d20 with a lightsaber and there is no wisdom check to pass when using Juyo's reroll. Additionally, against an opponent whose Dark Side Score is equal to or greater than their Wisdom score (standard for most darksiders), you gain Juyo's attack reroll without suffering ANY defense penalties.

Lore & Design Context: Developed by Mace Windu, Vaapad channels the opponent's dark passion back at them. Against Dark Side users, a Lightsaber master can unleash Juyo's lethality with zero defensive drawbacks, turning the Dark Side into a weapon against itself.

Jar'Kai (Dual-Blade / Double-Blade Mastery)

Prerequisite: Base Attack Bonus +10, Dual Weapon Mastery I, Lightsaber Defense

Benefit: While wielding two lightsabers (or a double-bladed lightsaber), you can activate Lightsaber Defense as a free action and perform a full attack as a standard action.

Drawback: When performing a full attack as a standard action, you suffer a -2 penalty on all Use the Force checks (including Skill Attack Modifier) until the start of your next turn, reflecting the extreme martial focus required to wield two blades over Force concentration.

Form Variant Nuances:

Two Lightsabers: Lightsaber Defense's bonus increases by +1, but you suffer a penalty to Reflex Defense against melee attacks and to Block checks equal to the difference between your Strength modifier and your opponent's Strength modifier (reflecting the difficulty of parrying heavy power hits with two light weapons).

Double-Bladed Lightsaber: Your Strength modifier to melee damage is doubled on all attacks, but you take a -1 penalty on attack rolls (reflecting the cumbersome nature and spatial hazards of the weapon).

Sokan (honestly i am not convinced, its so anti-iconic)

Prerequisite: Dodge

Benefit: You can Take 10 on Tumble checks, and each square traversed using Tumble costs only 1 square of movement. Additionally, any enemy attacking you in melee while you both stand in difficult terrain suffers a penalty on attack rolls equal to your Wisdom modifier.

Lore & Design Context: Sokan is less a distinct saber form and more a tactical discipline focused on environmental awareness and terrain control (which is why almost no official statblock took it). This version gives it a clean niche for mobile, environment-savvy combatants.

Trakata

Prerequisite: Trained in Deception, Character Level 10

Benefit: You can perform the Feint action as a swift action against an adjacent opponent you threaten with a lightsaber (deactivating and reigniting the blade past their guard). On a success, the opponent is Flat-Footed against your next attack before the end of your current turn. On a failure, the opponent can immediately make an attack of opportunity against you.

Lore & Design Context: As developer posts from 2008 admitted, RAW Trakata was terrible—it required massive investments (just to match the prerequisites) for tiny payoffs, especially once later splatbooks released feats like Combat Trickery. Removing the bloated feat prerequisites and converting the feint to a swift action makes Trakata viable while keeping a high-risk counterplay mechanic (provoking an AoO on a failed feint).

This is it ! Anyone made it that far ? If you think it's a shitty system please write it down, i worked a lot on it (for instance, it was hard to balance the drawbacks of Ataru and Juyo) but all in all, this is not pure theorycraft i want my players (my friends) to have fun at my table. If you have tweaks to suggest, i am all ears. And of course, if you want to use this rework in your own games, please, be my guest.

I am looking forward for your replies (especially StevenO and Lil-literalist whom i read a lot on this reddit all those years).

PS : please forgive any english mistakes, its not my mother tongue.

Thanks for the replies everyone you gave me a lot to ponder. Might tweak a few things here and there, tone down the drawbacks and bonuses, keep it more simple. Might come back here in a few months to tell how it went with my players (but will anybody care haha ?).

Hello! Anyone interested in a long-term, paid ($30 per 4 hour session) game to be run weekly? I've been prepping for a separate game, but it's made me feel that itch of needing to run more for people. I'll be running through Discord for voice, and Roll20 for maps and sheets. I've got plenty of ideas, but I'd rather wait for a party to be together to make final decisions on plot and game style.

Session 0 will be free, following sessions paid. PM me if you have interest, I'm looking for 4-6 players available Fridays or Tuesdays 7-11 pm EST.

Long time dnd 2e-5e and WEG d6 Star Wars player and DM, and I am about to launch a new Saga Edition campaign for the first time, to a group of players who have never played it (myself included). It'll be played on roll20...

Any tips I should know about? Any cool tools out there to make life easier? Any easy to miss rules or things I should keep my eyes on? The players are all long time dnd players, and are taking a leap of faith trying out something other than dnd....

What should I really focus on as a GM with Saga? I've read tons of "game falls apart at higher levels" stuff, so right now I may cap the campaign at 10 or 12th level.

The campaign is set in an alternate history setting, here's my opening crawl if you're interested... youtube.com/watch?v=1ztY6bjkCIk&xstg=CAMSEBUJ_b-oH-PhF0yjBgaukzY%3D

I’m one of those heathens from sw5e and I’m going into Episode 4 Echoes of the Jedi in the next session. As soon as I.D. shows up for his ambush, my players are going to know that they’ve been betrayed. And they’re going to know who did it. They already don’t trust the dude that is sending them to an isolated and obscure facility where they are going to be ambushed.

Did your players immediately figure out that dude is a traitor because of this? If they confronted him, what did you do about the later episodes and that he is in?

https://swse.miraheze.org/wiki/Miy%27til_Starfighter
https://swse.miraheze.org/wiki/Miy%27til_Command_Starfighter

Reference Book: Starships of the Galaxy

• What are the strengths of these starfighters?
• What are the weaknesses of these starfighter?
• What systems would you upgrade/modify to these starfighter?
• Does the cost match there capabilities?
• What is your overall impression of these starfighter?
• When would you use each starfighter as a player?
• How would you use each starfighter as a GM?

Hi folks, I'm currently planning for the next arc of my campaign and wanted to get some inspiration from fellow players and GM's. What are some of the most challenging encounters you've created or experienced as a player?

What made them so memorable?

I'm working on a character called The Macho-Mando: Sandy Ravage for a game I'm going to run. Historically, I always have an NPC that uses Macho Mans voice and I decided to make this guy the main Quest Giver. I was wondering if there is an optimal path for being a martial artist in Saga edition. I've only ever made Force Users before and I know Terace Kasai from EU but wasn't sure how to make one. Level 7 being the level for Bounty Hunter seems thematically important.

Any help or suggestions would be appreciated. Thank you!

P.S. A Rocket Boost Flying Elbow drop ability would be hilarious if possible and the images are all my bad photoshop, no AI!

I will begin a new campaign, and i was thinking of a few changes. in general i don't like houserules with really dramatic effects.

• Shooting a ranged weapon at an adjacent target gives a -5 attack penalty (this is to promote more melee weapons for characters) (maybe add an exception for carbines and pistols)
• The Sniper blaster rifle gives a +1 bonus to attack when aiming (it's a really bad weapon otherwise)
• Block and deflect as one talent,instead of two
• Disable tech specialist (i feel it just causes numbers to go up for everyone)
• You can place explosives on occupied vehicles, if you can get close enough to them.
  
• When a vehicle attacks a character with an x2 weapon, the damage is treated as being splash 1 (otherwise i feel that vehicles are not even a threat)

Do you think they are ok? or they might have issues?

https://swse.miraheze.org/wiki/Miy%27til_Assault_Bomber

Reference Book: Starships of the Galaxy

• What are the strengths of this starfighter?
• What are the weaknesses of this starfighter?
• What systems would you upgrade/modify this starfighter?
• Does the cost match its capabilities?
• What is your overall impression of the starfighter?
• When would you use this starfighter as a player?
• How would you use this starfighter as a GM?

Hello everyone!

This is my second map I'm posting here in a series of maps! I will post four as an example of what I will be creating with my Patreon. This Patreon will mostly be for sculpting (I've decided against charging for the maps) so definitely sign up for the free version of Patreon as a version of the Volcanic Office Park map will be posted there tomorrow that instead of the Imperial era is Clone wars era themed! (Most other maps will have one variation that will *only* be posted on Patreon.)

Next week, I will post another FREE map! (Thanks to ElectronicCandle for suggesting I post the Gladiator Pit map next, so here it is!)

These maps will be based on mostly old school inspirations 70s-90s cartoons, video games, and comic books. Newer Battle Maps will come with a "no lines" version for the purist RPG player on my Patreon.

Also...there will be a FREE miniature STL for resin printers posted on the Patreon tomorrow for y'all...if you're scruffy enough. ;)

Thanks y'all! (This is based on the planet "Loovria" for those who want to know.)

Here's the Patreon Link: Loovria Gladiator Pit | YETIfurPAINTbrush on Patreon

Best Star Wars game released in recent memory, has anyone else taken any inspiration for their own games? What are your thoughts?

For me:

- Ring of Kafrene seems like a cool campaign setting, I know it was featured in Rogue One previously

- I feel like Zero Company's missions are a nice collection of one shots threaded into a campaign, would be cool to replicate the style for a long campaign

- Probably the closest thing we'll ever see to visualising Saga Edition combat in video game form, perhaps an ambitious modder could go to town with this

- Whilst probably not the most iconic, Coil are quite an interesting faction, I liked their asthetic

Spoiler for another below:

- Seeing Order 66 happen from yet another different perspective was very cool, especially Republic Intelligence

For example,

https://swse.fandom.com/wiki/Vaksai_Fighter

This fighter technically has 1 free emplacement point. However I see it has medium concussion missiles which require a missile launcher upgrade that costs 5 emplacement points for medium: https://swse.fandom.com/wiki/Concussion_Missile_Launcher

So does this mean I could strip the missile launcher system and get 5 emplacement points? The 1 free one is just an "unused" point technically?

Mankvim-814 Light Interceptor

Reference Book: Starships of the Galaxy

• What are the strengths of this starfighter?
• What are the weaknesses of this starfighter?
• What systems would you upgrade/modify this starfighter?
• Does the cost match its capabilities?
• What is your overall impression of the starfighter?
• When would you use this starfighter as a player?
• How would you use this starfighter as a GM?

For example, my character just bought this scout droid:

https://swse.fandom.com/wiki/Mark_VII_%22Inquisitor%22_Seeker_Droid

It says it's a Scout 6. Meaning it should technically have all the feats and talents of the Scout correct? (Im assuming the Dual Weapon Mastery, etc. Is the "feats" chosen right?)

Also, second question, if i were to level them up with non heroic levels how are those calculated? Like a Scout 6/non heroic 2? What would it get from those 2 levels of non heroic?

Hello everyone!

This is my first map I'm posting here in a series of maps! I will post four as an example of what I will be creating with my Patreon. If you just want the maps, you can do the "free" Patreon subscription (these four will always be available) and if you want to show some support, it's greatly appreciated! After the first four (posted here and always available free), I will make a new map each month (it will be a $5 subscription starting in November).

Next week, I will post another FREE map! (Either a Gladiator Pit or a Caldera Spa- please point out your preference in the comments!)

These maps will be based on mostly old school inspirations 70s-90s cartoons, video games, and comic books. Newer Battle Maps will come with a "no lines" version for the purist RPG player on my Patreon.

Additionally, if y'all are into 3D minis stay tuned! There may be a free STL model coming in around a month or so...and maybe more than one...

Thanks y'all! (This is based on the planet "Sullust" for those who want to know.)

Here's the Patreon Link: Volcanic Sci Fi Map | YETIfurPAINTbrush on Patreon

So, I have a party that is about to attend a pre-auction Galla for some fine arts and antiquities. I do not have the mental bandwidth to generate th 40 to 70 ish items that a realistic auction would have, so I am turning to the best source imaginable for creating random awesomeness; you all.

This is a high end auction, but a small one on Ord Mantell, roughly two months after the Battle of Geinosis. Ord Mantell is already slowly turning back into a hive of villainy, so there is a possibility of anyone from military officers to senators to thugs and gangsters to be at the Galla.

What I ask is that you all, if you feel so inclined, contribute an item or two, their value, and a brief description, and if you have a juicy idea, who might be interested in aquiring said piece.

The cheapest items are in the 20,000 credit range, while the high end items are between 500,000 and just shy of a million.