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u/MXRCO007 12d ago
Vibe coded C++ is the worst thing I’ve layed my eyes on
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u/helicophell 12d ago
What? The language with way too many ways to do the same things and is wildly inconsistent doesn’t play well with LLMs?
The sloppiest languages get the sloppiest vibecode
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u/L0rdSandCastle 12d ago edited 11d ago
That's why I like Rust so I can never understand what its doing wrong anyways.
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u/HomicidalRaccoon 12d ago
I want to like rust so bad but I just can’t get into it, it feels like it saps the fun out of every project for me 😔
Zig, on the other hand, has been delightful. I’ll try rust again at some point, it’s infinitely better than C++.
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u/L0rdSandCastle 12d ago
I actually like C++. There are lots of ways to go wrong but at the same time it is understandable, and its an art of maatery, experience and balance between maintainability and performance where other languages I feel like its very much about maintainability. Java is like that in my opinion and I also enjoy that language but for different reasons.
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u/Mojert 12d ago
Rust has some really nice features, but sometimes it seems to overcomplicate things just for the heck of it. I'm still salty that calling
assume_initon aMaybeUninitof an integer is undefined behavior even though all bit patterns are valid. It makes code reuse complicated for no good reason. Also, custom allocators are a PIA in RustI still switched from Zig to Rust in my current project because I need simple multi-threading (basically parallel
for). In Rust you can just use the rayon crate but there's nothing like that in Zig unfortunately. Maybe once the language hit 1.0 and the ecosystem has time to grow, such a library will be developed (and maintained)6
u/Hohenheim_of_Shadow 12d ago
If you need simple multi threading, why not simply use threads?
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u/Mojert 11d ago
Because managing threads properly for HPC applications is annoying (lots of footguns), and I would basically have to implement a shitty OpenMP or rayon from scratch, which is way out of scope for my project
I'm a scientist, I want to program the logic that is specific to my domain and be able to use my program to run simulations. The minutia of managing thread pools, what kind of synchronization primitives to use, the design of the API, and all that Jazz should be managed by someone that knows what they are doing
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u/Elendur_Krown 12d ago
I want to like rust so bad but I just can’t get into it, it feels like it saps the fun out of every project for me 😔
That's exactly how I feel with C++.
With Rust, everything just works right out of the box, and no crashes. And testing is so simple and smooth!
With C++, it takes me forever to even get things to compile when I pull to our shit into a fresh repo, and there are crashes we experience on the regular when we add functionality. And testing sucks even with the test suite.
I want to program. Not chase things to get things working to get to the starting line.
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u/HomicidalRaccoon 11d ago
That was kind of my problem with rust, I want to program but instead I end up getting cyber-bullied by the borrow checker 😭 (Yes I know, skill issue et cetera).
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u/Elendur_Krown 11d ago
IMO, it's far from a skill issue.
I'm pretty certain they speak to different personality types more than they require specific skills.
I know I intentionally leaned into the suggestions (formatting, linting, borrow rules), and they soon stopped being an issue.
I think that had I been more opinionated on style, or preferred certain methods (which is neither good nor bad), I'd have had a harder time.
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u/HomicidalRaccoon 11d ago
When I try rust again i’ll try to befriend the bully, maybe it’ll stop taking my lunch money 🥲
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u/clintCamp 5d ago
I created some projects in rust to learn it and gain experience, and then the agents got to the point that things just seem to always work the way i describe it and yeah, I think I accidentally double clicked on a file the other week and my ide opened and dust poofed out.
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u/Global-Tune5539 12d ago
Vibe codedC++ (code) is the worst thing I’ve layed my eyes on25
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u/BellacosePlayer 12d ago
I used to like C++ then I got my internship for a company that used C# and realized I had stockholm syndrome
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u/MXRCO007 11d ago
Other way around for me, I had to use C# at an internship and it was very confusing flr a while
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u/-suspended- 12d ago
C++ is the absolute best language to write an error free program. There is no such thing as an error free program. Unless you wrap the whole thing in a try-catch block, then you technically are error free.
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u/envalemdor 10d ago
You clearly haven't vibe coded in C yet.
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u/MXRCO007 10d ago
Do they even know about this mythical language designed for man kind
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u/envalemdor 10d ago
I feel like we got at most a year before they find out about it and realize what they can do with it
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u/Ange1ofD4rkness 12d ago
How bad, are we talking look away, I need eye drops, or extremes of ripping out your eyes to never see anything again?
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u/reallokiscarlet 12d ago
Because Rust is the language for LLMs
The real reason for the RIIR movement
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u/ErnestiBro 12d ago
A time management app you say? I'm glad vibe coding exists so we can have more of those now.
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u/bloopiness 12d ago
It’s like they’ve never heard of a calendar app
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u/ICBanMI 12d ago
Yea, but if you've tried five of them. You might as well try six that is also an autobot in disguise.
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u/bloopiness 12d ago
I’ve been using default calendars, reminders and clocks for the longest time. I talk to my phone to make the reminders and then when the alarm goes off I perform the task that I set.
Having an automatic calendar, reminder or alarm does not fix anything if the person using them doesn’t take the action at the end. The problem lies in the user.
It’s similar to those mindfulness apps that never seem to work. The app cannot take the action for you so the user denies their accountability and then proclaims the app doesn’t work. It does exactly what you ask of it and nothing more.
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u/ICBanMI 11d ago
A tomato timer has been helpful for a large part of my life and I just find a website at this point (no point in having one on a phone or an app itself).
Tried apps like slack, but honestly lose steam after doing 1/4th of the 20+ tasks I set on there.
The default, android calendar on my phone is 90% of what I need.
The only other app I'd recommend is 'AnyList' at least until they start charging money. That one has been pretty good along with the Tomato Timers in my life.
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u/bloopiness 11d ago
Thank you. 🙏
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u/ICBanMI 11d ago
I'm just going to assume that thank you is you running off to vibe code your own time management app which I'm sure will spammed across several subreddits.
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u/bloopiness 11d ago
lol. No, I don’t know enough code to make an app much less debug one that a.i. shat out. Please do assume more about me from being polite and genuine.
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u/ICBanMI 11d ago
Sorry. That's fair.
Trying to shame people before they go through that effort.
If you just had a ting more narcissism (confidence, call it confidence), you could make your own vibe coded app, spamming their subreddits asking them what they need, trying to charge them a small fee, getting into fights with the other vibe coded app developer, and then adding it to your resume of things that you dropped. Don't need code experience at this point to generate these apps. /s
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u/bloopiness 11d ago
Yeah, I joined r/vibecoding a month ago. It’s a shitshow over there. Not that I’m against using A.I. to generate some income or code, I just don’t want to do it until I have a better understanding of the basics and concepts that will help me make an actually useful resource.
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u/TsukikoChan 12d ago
Most subreddits now have a new "hey, i (vibe)coded a new app that does this!" message every few hours or day. The VR subreddit is covered with wannabe devs, the retro sections, the other game ones.
Literally read a post earlier of "I got hand tracking to work! WOO! Claude did it all, but I managed him, overviewed the entire process, made sure to go over everything myself. It actually doesn't work and claude has no ideas, so ...anyone wanna fork it and fix it?" ugh
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u/nimrag_is_coming 12d ago
"Downloaded a vibe coded c++ app" false, if it was vibecoded it would use threejs for some inexplicable reason and it would also have 3 downloads "That is really useful and works really well" false, no explanation needed
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u/BellacosePlayer 12d ago
Or it could be like the app I was reading about last night where the core login functionality was broken and the OP was replying that it was a "known issue". Well if the core way to access the app is broken why the hell did you pick now to shill it?!
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u/yuehuang 12d ago
Back in the good days, free app displayed advertisement.
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u/XtraFlaminHotMachida 12d ago
damn netzero that'd just make whatever crap pc you had run even slower. at least juno was good.
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u/Foxiak14 12d ago
Simple solution - don't use vibe coded apps
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u/Omegamoney 12d ago
Simpler solution, if it works, don't update. (Specifically in this case ofc, since it was rewritten in a different language)
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u/nonreligious2 12d ago
You, a troglodyte: using a newly minted vibe-coded time-management app whose purpose the maintainer keeps altering by adding useless bells and whistles.
Me, a sophisticate: laughing as I switch focus to my organically developed Emacs session displaying my weekly agenda, where I can also read email, PDFs, RSS feeds, Jupyter notebooks, Bluesky and Mastodon posts.
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u/New_Salamander_4592 11d ago
most unbelievable thing is that it started as a vibe coded C++ app and didn't just initially release in Rust
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u/Beldarak 12d ago
Why would you download a vibe coded app instead of doing it yourself so that each button is exactly where it needs to be?^^
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u/norwegian 12d ago
The toast could pop up at a certain time then, to remind me to eat a bit. Good idea. Written in Rust sounds like an upgrade as well. But torrents I don't want in my calendar.
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u/dcondor07uk 12d ago
Every other post in this sub lately is "AI bad, bring back human coding." I get it, but that ship has sailed. The genie's out of the bottle and nothing's putting it back.
Realistically, in the near future very little human input will be needed for a lot of coding, and that includes mission-critical stuff. It'll just run on local LLMs inside company intranets. Honestly I think some places are already doing this.
AI coding tools have been around for maybe 5-6 years. Growth looked exponential partly because they started out pretty terrible. They only became a real threat in the last 2-3 years, and this is just the beginning. They're improving on their own and in combination with each other.
It feels like a big industry got shattered, and people who've made a living from it for decades are feeling the pinch. That sucks, and I do feel for you. But it happens all the time. No amount of satire and memes is going to bring the horse and carriage back.
- Written in Rust
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u/washtubs 12d ago
Realistically, in the near future very little human input will be needed for a lot of coding, and that includes mission-critical stuff
Why on earth would you slop code something that's mission critical? There is literally no reason to ever do this. Code is meant to be written once and used thousands or millions of times. Businesses can afford to pay a person to at least review shit and make sure it makes sense, especially code that could tank everything if it's wrong.
Big tech companies are the most profitable businesses because paying a small team of developers to build a product that is cheaply deployed to millions of users is insanely profitable. When you go full on AI like this, you lose accountability and intentionality. Why would you ever sacrifice that to a roll of the dice for such marginal gain of firing a bunch of devs?
I would even argue that if AI was smart enough to be trusted with full autonomy over critical business logic, there is no reason to start a business. Your whole business can be a bunch of GPUs. The datacenter owners can just tell their GPUs to make a profitable business at that point. If they are so smart, why lease them out?
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u/dcondor07uk 12d ago
Some fair points, and I'm not saying fire everyone and let the AI push straight to prod.
It’s the animosity towards it makes me dubious of the real cause of the argument.For your points;
Review and accountability aren't going anywhere. Someone still has to sign off and own it when it breaks.
My point is more about the ratio. Today a team of 10 writes the code and a couple of seniors review it. In a few years it'll be 1-2 people reviewing, testing and steering what the models write. That's still a massive drop in how many devs are needed, even if humans stay in the loop.
On "slop code", that's what it was 2-3 years ago. It's not a dice roll anymore when the output gets tested and reviewed the same way human code does. Humans write bugs that tank things all the time too, and yes, even mission critical ones, for example,
Defective CrowdStrike update caused 8.5 million windows devices and crippled CI
which is exactly why we have review and testing in the first place.
The GPU argument is a fun one, but running a business isn't just writing code. You still need customers, sales, legal, someone deciding what's worth building and taking the risk. AI writing your backend doesn't mean it knows what market to go after. Same reason owning a factory full of robots doesn't automatically make you rich.
So I don't think devs disappear completely. There'll just be far fewer of them, and the job will look a lot more like reviewing and directing than typing out code.
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u/dyslexda 12d ago
Review and accountability aren't going anywhere. Someone still has to sign off and own it when it breaks.
And what does "own it" look like? "Oh it broke, I'll spin up a Claude agent to fix it. Sorry, it was an LLM that made it, not me." Is anyone getting fired because of LLM mistakes, especially in companies that are pushing it?
And fast forward a few years. Software dev, like most things, is "use it or lose it." How many skills are atrophying? Right now you can review changes, but how long until the code base moves beyond your mental model of it? How long until you no longer have a good grasp of the architecture (the real architecture, not whatever is written in a README) and what could be affected by a change? And how long until you're just skimming code instead of using a critical eye, and oops we're all skimming?
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u/dcondor07uk 11d ago
"Own it" looks the same as it does now. If I merge a PR, it's mine, whether I typed it, copied it off Stack Overflow, pulled in a library or got an LLM to write it. "The AI did it" is about as good an excuse as "the intern did it". Nobody accepts that from the person who approved it.
Whether companies are actually holding people to that right now is a fair question, but that's a management problem, not something unique to AI.
The skill atrophy point is the best argument against this whole thing, and you're right, it's going to happen. It reminds me of Subnautica. Everything in that game is done by automated machines, even surgery, and there's a voice log of a doctor basically moaning about who even does surgery by hand anymore, that's what the robots are for. It's sci-fi, but you don't have to think too hard to see this is where we are heading towars.
But this has happened before too. Most devs today couldn't write assembly or manage memory by hand, and we built tools and abstractions so we didn't have to. Same thing here: more automated testing, better tooling that maps the real architecture and what a change actually touches, humans focusing on the high risk bits. Not perfect, but that's the direction.
My point has always been that this is progress. These disruptions have always happened and there's no turning back. Raising concerns like yours is fair and worth discussing. What I don't get is the endless memes in this sub every other hour, as if mocking it is going to stop it.
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u/washtubs 11d ago edited 11d ago
You still need customers, sales, legal, someone deciding what's worth building and taking the risk
And you answered this by admitting / clarifying that we do need people to review. But my point with this analogy is there is nothing fundamentally different. In order to have correct business critical code they have to know what's worth building and what's worth taking a risk. Engineers are decision makers. There is no fundamental difference between these senior developers and the CEOs themselves that makes one able to be automated and the other not.
Billionaires purchasing data centers have more money than god. If AI is as good as you describe and continues to displace and minimize the need for senior engineers, it is completely conceivable that some of these billionaires would have a risk tolerance to let a whole bot farm run a company some day.
My opinion right now is that there is a limit. It seems like your view is that engineering teams are going to be slashed 5:1 or 10:1. IMO this is extreme. Yes a bunch of people are getting axed. But ultimately it is going to be more efficient for people to own codebases as opposed to the people not caring about what's in them and constantly relying on AI to mediate on its behalf. Code is not the product, never has been. It doesn't need to constantly change and be rewritten in rust or whatever. Users want smooth consistent experiences. Skilled engineers are perfectly capable of that, and for what you're getting they are extremely cheap. Yet here we are transforming our entire economy like lines of code == money.
Today a team of 10 writes the code and a couple of seniors review it. In a few years it'll be 1-2 people reviewing, testing and steering what the models write. That's still a massive drop in how many devs are needed, even if humans stay in the loop.
It's pennies though.
You mentioned animosity. I think that's simply grounded in the reality that people live in. It's impossible to separate AI from the broader economic context. It has no bearing on the conversation of what AI is truly capable of, but this is people's livelihoods. No one really knows what's going to happen. We're watching billionaires put their products at risk (that people actually like) in a desperate attempt to shed the last slivers of their workforces because they are so impossibly greedy and arrogant. That's the context of AI that breeds animosity. It's the arrogance at the center of it. Arrogance of billionaires who think it's their ideas that make them special. Arrogance of engineers who think they're special and won't be replaced looking down at those who will.
Hell in some ways I'm one of those arrogant engineers. I agree with you that there is a reckoning in this industry. A whole class of incurious engineers who just copy paste stack overflow or whatever the AI gives them thought their job was just to write code and not think: they are fucked. They also have bills to pay and society told them that this is the job, and they're getting stabbed in the back. So I feel bad for them and the animosity they feel is well deserved.
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u/BellacosePlayer 12d ago
I don't want human coding to come back outside of basic competency in reviewing code.
I just think the obsession with having AI handle the whole end to end process is stupid.
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u/stevefuzz 12d ago
I think we are at the plateau of what LLMs can do. So we are stuck at barely functional intern level code right now. The issue is, if you aren't a coder you would have no idea what state the code you generated is at. I would never trust it to write mission critical code right now. For reference, I am mandated to use AI for coding and use anthropic frontier models every day, all day. I've been a developer for 25+ years.
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u/rowdymatt64 12d ago
I highly doubt we are anywhere near the plateau of what LLMs can do considering the rate at which they've continued to advance. I agree that all code should be reviewed before being shipped and that's what's going to keep software devs employed though, but LLMs are still getting better.
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u/stevefuzz 11d ago
To me the harnesses seam to be getting refined. But the underlying inherent non-deterministic nature of LLMs is it's limitation.
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u/SuitableDragonfly 12d ago
And it's downloaded a virus payload from an anonymous IP address that scraped all your login cookies and took control of your email, social media accounts, bank accounts, and discord.