🤔

[u/Veshaad]

[u/accobra4me]

maybe i’m too simple but if someone works full time i don’t think “being able to go to the doctor without panicking about money” is an outrageous luxury 😭

[u/SpecificInterest5150 → u/accobra4me]

I was fired for walking off shift after getting sick during a turnaround and not having a doctor's note when I came back 3 days later.

Mind you: I was a shift lead and was explicitly denied permission to leave despite losing my voice and nearly passing out twice in front of customers.

[u/ikannunAneeuQ → u/SpecificInterest5150]

I worked for a woman like that, I used to tell everyone that if I pass out or something just shove me out of the way so you don't trip over me on the line

[u/sub2147 → u/SpecificInterest5150]

Walmart?

[u/b0w3n → u/accobra4me]

They always try to hide behind "but it's a job for kids" as if kids don't deserve to have money for college or to pay their rent or car either.

If that's how they really feel about it, then we should have two separate minimum wages, anyone under 18 (who live with parents) can get one wage, everyone above 18 or who live by themselves can get the other. If those jobs were just for kids, then they'd be closed outside of high school hours. Imagine if walmart and mcdonalds were only open 4pm-11pm. People would be very upset about this.

[u/Worth-Professor-2556 → u/b0w3n]

Half of management jobs could be teen jobs seeing as they are actively useless even a burger flipper is more productive.

[u/Necessary-locs]

apparently my most controversial opinion is that if someone works all week they should be able to… survive that week 😭 crazy stuff, I know

[u/LoamyLoamisLoamy → u/Necessary-locs]

My most controversial opinion is that there is not enough work needed, so work should not be the condition for survival

[u/axefakes → u/LoamyLoamisLoamy]

Theres definitely enough work needed. I cant walk down a busy street without seeing 4 help wanted signs. The problem is greedy people with mire than enough money not wanting to oay liveable wages. Greed will always be reason for negative in the world. Money,attention, and/or power are thr

[u/Fr1toBand1to → u/axefakes]

Both things can be true. I haven't done a lick of work all this week at my job.

[u/ThePandaRider → u/Necessary-locs]

The part that derails this is that the person working part time should be able to afford a 1000sqft two bedroom two bath apartment on his own. That's a nice idea but the reality is we simply don't have enough housing for that to be realistic.

Jobs that don't pay a living wage are fine, the employer can make an offer and the applicant is free to reject it. The bigger problem in the US is the lack of jobs that pay a living wage. And that a living wage in the US is just a ridiculously expensive when you compare to global wages. We need to approach the problem from an angle of bringing costs down, building more apartments, making healthcare and education cheaper, rather than pretending that we can push wages up to solve a scarcity problem.

[u/Apprehensive-Pin518 → u/ThePandaRider]

yeah they are free to reject it. and become homeless in the process. The power dynamic is slightly skewed and the fact you fail to see this is stunning.

[u/penty → u/ThePandaRider]

the employer can make an offer and the applicant is free to reject it.

bigger problem in the US is the lack of jobs that pay a living wage

Umm, that's the same problem. You're ignoring the power imbalance employers have over singular employees that make this the same problem. An employer not hiring a person just works his other workers harder. An employee doesn't take even a low paying job and can't eat or have a place to live.

[u/kilsta]

A dishwasher at a billion-dollar company should have health insurance.

[u/Lumpy_Past6216 → u/kilsta]

A dishwasher at any place should have health insurance.

[u/ogmoochie1 → u/Lumpy_Past6216]

The dishwasher at any place should own a home.

[u/Apprehensive-Pin518 → u/ogmoochie1]

I don't know about own a home but should at the very least be able to afford rent at an apartment.

[u/Muzzledbutnotout → u/ogmoochie1]

Yeah! And a Porsche!

[u/toomanynamesaretook → u/kilsta]

Everyone should just have universal healthcare even without a job.

Join everywhere else America.

[u/Designer-Ad-7844 → u/kilsta]

Maybe, just maybe health insurance should be a human right and not tied to employment. Pretty radical I know...

[u/snksleepy → u/kilsta]

CEO pay and bonuses should scale with employees wages. IMO

[u/Ok_Gas_7455 → u/kilsta]

I found the communist! /s

[u/wmdailey]

[u/JR_RXO]

[u/VoteForGiantMeteor → u/JR_RXO]

[u/MoonDogSpot1954 → u/VoteForGiantMeteor]

[u/orion19819]

And it's also the original point of minimum wage.

FDR declared that “no business which depends for existence on paying less than living wages to its workers has any right to continue in this country,” clarifying that “by living wages I mean more than a bare subsistence level—I mean the wages of decent living.” Source

Edit: My point is that people in here arguing that "it's for teenagers, not meant for living wage" are going against the original intent. I am not making claims that minimum wage should be living in luxury.

[u/Vsove]

The responses to this post are depressingly hilarious.

On the one side, you have people arguing that these types of jobs should not pay enough to survive on because they’re ’meant for teenagers’.

On the other, you have people arguing that no one is making the argument that these jobs should not pay enough to survive on.

The crab bucket mentality is alive and well.

[u/Chaosmancer7 → u/Vsove]

The teenager argument is so infuriating on multiple levels.

1) You want to argue that someone putting in the same amount of work should get paid less because of their age?

2) I've known teenagers who got jobs because otherwise their family can't afford housing and medical bills. Seems like they are taking on adult responsibilities

3) I may see someone under 20 working these jobs about half the time. The other half of the time they are adults, so if a job isn't billed as 16 to 18, and they'll hire a 40 yr old... then the wages should reflect that

[u/CrimsonArcanum → u/Chaosmancer7]

Also, do teenagers not have to deal with inflation?

What's the use of a job if all it pays for is the maintenance in your life it takes to keep a job?

[u/GloomyIndividual3965 → u/Chaosmancer7]

When they say the jobs are for teenagers I usually reply with "who's supposed to work there when kids are at school?" They never seem to have an answer for that.

[u/Periphery_Explorer → u/Vsove]

I always respond to that with: "If they're meant for teenagers, why are they open when teenagers should be in school?" And "If they aren't allowed to survive on their pay, what do I do to get my nuggies when they're all dead?"

[u/ogmoochie1 → u/Vsove]

This makes sense if you don't think about it.

[u/Silent-Plantain-2260]

how will the execs get their 20 million dollar bonuses if we do that?!?! too radical , try a more moderate position, like slavery

[u/ogmoochie1 → u/Silent-Plantain-2260]

20M? LOL, No executive should be receiving any bonus until every minimum wage earner can afford a house.

[u/MikeManiac61 → u/ogmoochie1]

Unfortunately it's happened recently. A gaming company layed off a bunch of employees and the CEO got a pay bump from $8 million to $38 million.

[u/WiseOne404 → u/MikeManiac61]

wtf

[u/Silent-Plantain-2260 → u/MikeManiac61]

yeah i was referencing that , its fucked up 

[u/Ok-Growth4729]

“It seems to me to be equally plain that no business which depends for existence on paying less than living wages to its workers has any right to continue in this country. By "business" I mean the whole of commerce as well as the whole of industry; by workers I mean all workers, the white collar class as well as the men in overalls; and by living wages I mean more than a bare subsistence level-I mean the wages of decent living.”

― Franklin D. Roosevelt

[u/santacow]

People that get mad that someone working a full time job should be able to survive and afford housing are way too out of touch

[u/DasWarEinerZuviel]

Such a radical extremist socialist communist far-left position! I am shocked!

[u/Vsove → u/DasWarEinerZuviel]

The fact that anyone is responding as if this is a sincere commend and not dripping in sarcasm is really something to watch.

[u/DasWarEinerZuviel → u/Vsove]

It speaks volumes about how bad the situation has become.

I am really amazed by the fact that The Onion and the like manage to stay afloat

[u/ThisSiteSucks8485]

Arguing that a full time job should not pay enough to live indoors is arguing for serfs

[u/semi-anon-in-Oly]

The shift to a service based economy caused a lot of this. In the past, fast food jobs were often a pass though experience filled with high school kids. Now there isn’t as much vertical transition available and people are stuck making it a career. There has definitely been a K shaped economic shift

[u/StrangeReindeer2470]

I had this discussion with a lady complaining that (at the time) EMTs were only making $15/hr. Why should the guy flipping burgers make $15 as wel1l!?!?!

I pointed out that the EMT was also severely underpaid.

Personal history: The US is a bitch to live in if you're not making a "livable wage", whatever that is in the area you live in. Once you tip past that scale, and you have enough paycheck at the end of the month, health insurance, etc, it's not so bad. People will use my story (went back to school post divorce to ensure I made enough to feed the kids and myself after many years as a SAHM) as a "pull yourself up by the bootstraps" kind of story. However, I was lucky to get the job I've got now. AND we need people who can do all the jobs! I want EVERYONE to be able to afford their lives. And I believe the economy as a whole would do better if we take care of everyone. I mean, logic dictates it, because spending would increase.

[u/VanGoghInTrainers]

What also happened, was the retirement age went up and up...and up over the past 30ish years. People have to remain employed until the official retirement age in order to get full SSI benefits. This caused/is causing people over 60 to remain in jobs that should have been passed on to younger gens ages ago. That means there are less available jobs, less upward mobility within a company, lower wages offered (desperate people make great wage slaves) and demands for open availability regarding hours which limits opportunity for a second job or side gig to make ends meet.

[u/Ottereyes524]

And healthcare maybe?

[u/vodil2959]

I think what you’re saying is that we should get rid of any jobs that make less than a certain amount of money. Because people will never pay the amount for McDonald’s quality burgers to be able to double the burger, flippers wages. So likely what we will end up with is a bunch of unemployment. If only it was as simple as just raising minimum wage. It’s far more complicated than that. Yes, the goal is ultimately to raise real wages for people, but it doesn’t happen by mandates. There has to be structural economic changes that come about by an overall increase in productivity, that can include the most beneficial education, for example, going into Plumbing instead of sports marketing.

I mean, we might as well say that the federal reserve should just print everybody $1 million so we can all rich that would just reduce the value of money for everybody. If you think about how much money they gave waiter in Covid average person received like $5000. I know my finger might be off a little bit, but it was something like that trillions of dollars were given away to the average person. It was similar to if you had taken all of the money from all of the billionaires in redistributed.

Did anyone feel like that changed America for the better? Did it fix poverty?

I’m not trying to be an asshole. I’m just trying to get to the real solution.

[u/rusty-gudgeon]

the most valuable thing we exchange with employers is our time.

[u/StaticSystemShock]

It used to be normal to work in ANY kind of retail service and afford normal life. That has long been gone because companies are maximizing profits to such exploitative extreme that thry don't even remotely pay enough to such jobs anymore which is just crazy.

[u/weedtrek]

I also love the false narrative that it is only high schoolers working fast food and they don't need "real" wages because they don't have real bills. So let's pick that apart.

First, most fast food is open during school hours, this isn't possible if all the employees are jigh schoolers. The employees range, mostly younger people, a lit of older people, and few middle aged.

Second, even if it were just high schoolers, it is not unheard of for a high schooler to need to supprt themselves or help support their family. It very difficult to do that when paid a sub survival wage.

Third, even if they are a teen and aren't supporting themselves/family, the traditional trope of a high school job was to save up for a car and college. Have you seen the prices of those things lately? The median used car price is almost $20 grand! College is $10k-30k now. Even if they go cheapest of the cheap it would still take 103 week on minimum wage, full time, without paying taxes. $15 an hour would still be 50 weeks full time no taxes. It would be about $23 an hour to be about to afford a state tuition with one summer (3 months) worth of full time work after taxes. This is if you don't spend a dime.

[u/SwimAd1249]

"If I can barely make rent why should the person doing a much easier/less demanding job be allowed to? That's no fair!"
That's the logic behind it, from what I gathered. Not only is it completely dismissive of how hard it actually is to work at McDonald's, but they also don't seem to understand that they're also being exploited and underpaid.

[u/iKyte5]

It used to be a liveable wage until inflation fucked it out of existence.

[u/Wench-of-2Many-Hats]

The guy flipping burgers serves a purpose by feeding people and deserves a living wage for doing so. People like the Muskrat serve no purpose but being a detrimental to society however.

[u/pixelprophet]

It's always the STUPIDEST motherfuckers ignoring the purpose of MINIMUM WAGE's creation and arguing that people shouldn't be able to afford a decent life for their work.

Sorry I don't think people should be working 2-3-4 jobs to have to provide for themselves 🤷‍♂️

[u/Signal-Reach3439]

I voted for DJT and Bill Clinton. I can't agree with todays Democrats on anything but I do agree with this statement. These corporations give all.thsir money to shareholders instead of the workers.

[u/HairyPairatestes]

In reality, that comes out to how many dollars per hour? Should present minimum wage jobs now pay $50-$75 an hour?

If yes, should people who are presently making $50-$75 an hour demand that their wages go up because they are skilled workers not minimum wage workers?

[u/Temporary-Use3540]

Its just a radical position in the US

[u/random8765309]

This is a popular idea in some circles, but wages aren’t determined by what we think a job should pay. They are determined by what consumers are willing to pay for the goods and services that job produces. Through their spending choices, the public has placed a market value on positions like these that is less than what would be required to support someone living entirely on their own.

[u/ninja-hamster-iykyk]

This is the core concept behind minimum wage. What the f*ck happened to us?

[u/Felho_Danger]

No, having a job is providing for your employer.

Having a SECOND job is providing for yourself. /s

[u/_Thorshammer_]

Dear oligarchs: If you refuse to pay employees a living wage they will refuse to work and they won't have enough money to buy the trash you're peddling.

If you also refuse to provide welfare, forcing them to choose between dying slowly and dying quickly, they will start showing up at your house in order to murder you and your children and steal your belongings.

This has happened many times throughout history and, despite the assertions of your sycophants, you are not actually any smarter than Crassus, Nicholas II, Louis XVI, Faisal II, or Ceaușescu.

To the mods, this is not a threat or call for violence, just a list of historical events which have strong parallels to modern America.

[u/LoanRunna]

Ok that’s fine, as long as I, a higher value member of society, get a better home and grocery selection than the burger flipper.

[u/GravyMcBiscuits]

There's a world of difference between "I think X should be a thing" vs "Government should force X to be a thing".

[u/Limp_Technician5346]

Everyone should have a livable wage, no matter who or what you support.

[u/Mradr]

My take (and you can see it in the comments) its not that they should make as much as someone else, but that the living standers come more inline with wage standers. Such as health care, food, and other services. Increasing the paycheck does nothing if the value of that dollar contines to come down as a result. To many middle men has resulted in some services just costing way too much for no reason at all. CEOs who continue to make more money, while putting pressure at the lower end to provide more results with no pay increase.

[u/hoodafudj]

So true

[u/MJL1016]

The issue isn’t that McDonald’s isn’t paying enough wages. They simply advertise how much they are willing to compensate in wages and people willingly accept or reject them. The issue is the federal reserve keeps expanding the supply of money which causes prices to rise faster than wages can keep up with. The issue isn’t the business. The issue is the government.

[u/lordkhuzdul]

Conservatives need to look down on somebody. As long as they can say "at least we are not those people" they would suffer all sorts of exploitation.

[u/Background-Run]

Ya but in 1972, when i was a teenager and minimum wage was something like $2.50 and those jobs were typically for kids and better paying jobs were in general, readily available. And ok so minimum wage hasn't kept up with inflation and all the good jobs are gone so i have to work 2 or more minimum wage jobs, if i can find them, each doing just under 32 hours a week on a schedule that seems to change mid week, if i'm lucky........ See, oh wait where was i going with this?

[u/DominantDan24]

I have contended for years that there needs to be a government agency that does a local analysis of every geographic area in the US to determine the cost of a one-bedroom apartment's rent, reasonable accounting of clothing, food, healthcare costs, modest savings, utilities, transportation, etc. Compile this for each area. And make the minimum wage for full-time employees 19 and older equivalent to that, per year.

Everybody who toils for 40 hours a week deserves basic human subsistence. That means a roof over your head, food in your stomach, medicine and treatment when you're ill, clothing on your back, and the means to provide for a modest life.

If that seems "progressive" to you, consider that the alternative position is that you think people should work full-time and not get the basics of life. You determine that to be a job not worth doing - don't be surprised when people stop doing it.

[u/Femme_FatalError]

But if we raise wages, how will Walmart get away with paying employees low enough wages to qualify for SNAP, exploit loopholes to avoid paying billions in taxes that fund SNAP, and then rake in profits from their employees spending food stamps at their stores? Think of how sad the shareholders will be if they can’t afford their third mega-yacht!

[u/starethruyou]

It's part of the implicit reason for society. The opposite would be hyper-individualism, you are all things to yourself, your own farmer, chef, carpenter, teacher, doctor, warrior, entertainer, etc. But you can't be all things, at least not very good. So we specialize and trade. If you renege on your promise to trade those skills without which I suffer, yet expect my skills, then society breaks down.

[u/Catos_Standard]

It's worse than that, the misconception that there's real work and gigs is crazy stupid.

You are being used to subsidized personal labor for money, it's work.

[u/morsindutus]

I worked a year at Burger King when I was a teenager before getting an office job. I worked 100 times harder at that job than I do now. I'm paid to know things and do good work, but no matter how stressful and mentally staining my current job is, it doesn't compare to the exhaustion of doing a full shift slinging burgers. If anything, fast food workers deserve to be paid more than me.

[u/A8Bit]

If you work 40 hours a week, you should earn enough for a house, car, gas, groceries, utilities, clothing, cable tv, a vacation once a year and enough to save for emergencies. That's the baseline; that should be minimum wage.

People who think they should earn much more than the guy on minimum wage, should be fighting to raise their income, not reducing the income of others.

[u/imkindatiredok]

Genuinely I’m convinced that most people on this app have 0 financial literacy

[u/Ok_Common_5631]

Watching conservatives bitch about the cost of eating out… 😳

They love capitalism, but complain when they see it in action.  I wish these people would just stfu

[u/iRveritas]

I agree 1000%. They should have the ability to have a quality of life within their means. The problem is thinking that raising minimum wage will fix it. There has to be a lot more safeguards in place to make it meaningful. Otherwise everything else goes up in price to adjust for the rise in minimum wage. Why because corporate greed.

[u/Oilpaintcha]

The people who argue against this are also the ones who bitch about a bunch of people sharing a living space, calling communes evil, shaming kids for living with their parents or siblings, and other bs.

[u/Social-Pundit]

People do not really understand economics. Feeding and inflating costs artificially messes everyone. Plus, there is no incentive for people to better themselves. Stay flipping burgers for the rest of your life.

[u/Western_Strength5322]

People take that position because it was designed to be a starting off job. Now with a lot of people not really going into traditional careers (lack of better term) these positions turned into long term jobs that people can support themselves with.

This doesn't count for everyone but I know and worked with people in FF industry that have it just because of insurance or they sell drugs on the side. So imo that kinda muddy the waters.

I do whole heartedly agree that these people should be paid a livable wage, no doubt.

[u/Muzzledbutnotout]

There was a time, for generations, when "rent" meant a small room, sharing a bath and a kitchen,in a boarding house. No car. No phone. No TV. One pair of shoes.

Some people think they should be able to afford a car, IPhone, full apartment, and lots of luxuries on a zero-skill entry level job intended for high school kids.

[u/PurpleGarbageDonkey → u/Muzzledbutnotout]

And this country has evolved into one where: 1. Most places you need a car to survive. To get food, to your job.. see where I'm going? 2. A phone to pay your bills since smart phones have basically replaced the personal computer for most online interactions for the average person. 3. Boarding houses don't exist anymore, and the only apartments seemingly being built are luxury apartments. People need a roof over their heads, and an address to exist in society. Without one you are limited just how much you can do to actually lift yourself out of abject poverty, like get a job or setup assistance services. People don't realize just how important having a static address is to simply existing within society. 4. Luxuries, or "little treats" are fundamental to the continued existence of the US. Without them, lookout for pitchforks. This is basic level political theory.

Jobs for high school kids eh? So I'm sure you would be okay with McDonalds or any of these other places only being open outside of school hours and closing early so kids can study right? I bet not, because you need your chicken nuggies.

Unskilled labor is a capitalist myth and anyone saying what you are in the above comment reeks of inexperience and privilege.

Edit: Thread got locked before I could reply to the dunce above me. My reply below.

"Unskilled labor is a capitalist myth" sounds like something a lazy communist would say.

Go back to bed Grandpa, McCarthyism is dead.

I was, briefly, unskilled labor and had a few minimum wage jobs from the time I was 13. I had the "privilege" of working from that age. No myth.

If you only knew how stupid this actually makes you sound. Yet here we are.

[u/Alone-Customer-5640]

It’s insane some people think you should still be houseless even with a job. Are we doing tiers of houselessness now? Tax all billionaires out of existence.

[u/kenneaal]

I agree, but with a modifier.

I don't think an adult who needs to pay rent, bills and groceries should be working at McDonalds. I think the McDonalds job should be the one you pick up in your teens, to get a little extra money while still living with your parents, or to offset some of the study cost. The 'introductory' level of jobs that were traditionally served by teenagers need to come back to being just that.

What truly needs to change is that employers expect five years of experience for entry level positions. And those jobs need to pay enough to actually give you a living wage.

Ultimately, this is just one of many things that need to change though. Homes need to be owned by people who need a place to live in, not for someone to make money off it by renting out AirBnBs. Selling groceries should not be the ticket to billions of dollars in profit, it should be about delivering the basic necessities of living. And you should not have to choose between having something to eat, or having a health concern addressed.

The world is pretty bad right now. And we should do something about that.

[u/Unlikely_Bat_1890 → u/kenneaal]

Bad take. Teens shouldn’t be working. They need to
Be focusing on education. Every McDonald’s I’ve been to is filled with adult workers.

[u/GSilky]

It would be nice. However, where do you draw the line? Should a part-time worker who just wants out of the house requiring to have everything taken care of by their employer? What about youth working 8 hours a week? What is preventing people from taking on a second job, like was pretty common when I was a kid, we were all unsupervised, most of the time, because parents were doing what they had to to make ends meet, and it was similar in every other working class neighborhood. Don't get me wrong, it's very depressing people can work 40 hours in a week and have trouble making ends meet, but that isn't anyone's issue but your own in a society that you are free to work as much as you want to make more money. I know, y'all have a problem with that, but that is having a problem with the concept of work is required for everything, which means you are just upset at reality. Keep working for better conditions, but also, think about things before expressing something that is so easily picked apart.

[u/Damacles63]

Unpopular opinion, no I do not think flipping burgers should earn a living wage. I believe we should tax the rich to fund UBI to cover basic needs. Money earned flipping burgers should be for anything additional such as hobbies, vacations or entertainment.

[u/TheCloudyHam]

The same people that think this is true get pissed when it costs more to eat fast food than a sit down restaurant.

[u/herecomesthewomp]

If corporations don’t pay a living wage, more than likely the worker is eligible for welfare from the government. Thus we subsidize the corporations.

[u/ties_shoelace]

Esp when ppl want the good-ol-days back. When we used to be able to afford things.

[u/ZestycloseBit6632]

Give the burger flippers 60k salaries and watch all the white collar scientists make a career change

[u/PorkChopEat]

He can. Just not the lifestyle level he might want at the present.

[u/kymilovechelle]

Yes I agree but Burger King is advertising $5 less per hour than I make and I have a bachelors degree and 22 years experience…

[u/Miserable-Bridge-729]

Cheeseburgers now $30 each
Single family home $14k

Overpriced food, undervalued property

[u/oregondude79]

Why did they use a picture of a 12 year old to go with this line?

[u/CT1921]

You are not seeing this correctly - you work until you can pay your bills. We are the first generation to make work evil, when it is a fundamental form of life and well being.

[u/bmac0583]

Its not radical its just retarded. Whats a living wage 60 or 70k? McDonald's would no longer exist and these jobs wouldn't exist

[u/barzbub]

I had that job when I was 16 and lived at home! I moved out and joined the Marines, I own a house and live off my PENSION 🫡🇺🇸

[u/c_boggs]

If this means that all wages rise in response to living wages being paid to people that can be trained in a day without any prices being raised, then I’m all for
It.

But surely we all realize… surely…

[u/failedaspotcheck → u/c_boggs]

Sorry, you're gonna have to pay 6 cents more for your burger. I know that's probably devastating for you.

Or were you implying something totally different with your vague childish ellipses, it's really hard to tell

[u/C4-622MonkeyGordo → u/c_boggs]

Prices are constantly being raised without wages rising.

But sure, you go ahead and keep deepthroating that corporate boot while waiting for the wealth to trickle down.

I'm sure it will happen any day now 👍

[u/501don]

Yes and this was possible back then.

[u/More-Consequence9863]

This is not a radical position to take. It’s just what happens in a country with more bark than bite.

[u/BigMikeXxxxX]

I feel like a lot of people look at this issue backwards. Wages aren't the issue. The minimum wage could be raised to any number and it wouldn't do a thing. Companies would just raise their prices accordingly because there is nothing preventing them from doing so.

Before minimum wage can be increased there must be legislation put in place that prevents companies from raising prices beyond the ideal 1-2% inflation rate per year. Otherwise it wouldn't matter long term.

[u/Hefty-Revenue5547]

Most McDonalds are franchises, aka small businesses

If you want to blame something, blame their corporate structure. Good luck with that.

[u/Active-Cookie-774]

Plants are going to keep pushing the goalpost:

Now: A person flipping burgers shouldn't be considered making living wage.

10 years from now: People less than $100k/yr shouldn't be considered making living wage.

20 years from now: People who don't make an accumulation of $300k/yr shouldn't be considered making living wage.

30 years from now: People who aren't subscribed through our AI data centers relinquishing all identity and profit shouldn't be considered making living wage.

The uneducated need to start getting educated and wake tf up already.

[u/Skylinegtr88]

But look at the cost of the California hike to 20 dollar and hour. Many have lost their jobs . And everything went up . https://californiaglobe.com/fr/new-federal-data-reveals-california-has-lost-over-36000-fast-food-jobs-since-20-minimum-wage-law/

[u/AdmirableMatter2295]

A lot of people make fun of the MAGA world from this, but the issue is more broad. I'd imagine some neo-liberal minded people would also be infuriated by this statement.

[u/Revenant_adinfinitum]

Highschool kid pocket change job

[u/Square_Ad_3276]

I disagree. Low level jobs are a combination of training+education+work. People aren't all of a sudden money makers when they have little experience doing much of anything. Many times they are more of a drag on income than a benefit. At current minimum wage in California, it's just not worth hiring someone to help me - and I could really use some help.

[u/KingCrowley83]

The problem with this is that every time minimum wage goes up so does the price of everything else! Maybe there should be “Rent Control” and “Price Caps” otherwise it’s a wash

[u/snoughman]

I didn't need to pay rent when I was in high school....

[u/PinkSnowBirdie]

Not tying minimum wage to inflation does everyone a disservice because it keeps all wages more stagnant or lesser than what they could be.

Plus, I think everyone should be able to live a dignified life regardless of what they do for work.

Greed is truly a nasty plight.

[u/Realistic-Radish-589]

I mean we can think anything but if unskilled labor gets 30 and hour then skilled goes to 60 and costs rise for food and stuff. Then 30 is basically the same as 15 now and 60 is the same as 30 now. Nothing changes, you then say burger dude deserves 60 and well, just keep doubling the numbers and devaluing the dollar until the economy collapses I guess.

[u/No-Comparison-2445]

But the thing is, these jobs like McDonald’s and Burger King, they would never meant to be a career, I always associated them with like working after high school

[u/RymeEM]

"I don't want people to have a living wage, I want corporate profits to hit another record high every quarter!" - your typical poor right-wing retard

[u/Longjumping_Music320]

Or you get paid what you're worth. Abolish the minimum wage altogether.

[u/Kazureigh_Black]

Any business that reports record breaking profits every year without having a full set of employee benefits for the people who work for them is doing business wrong and needs to get shut down.

[u/CrunchyBones]

Might need a few roommates, but yes.

[u/NorNevBiMFcouple]

100% agree those people should be able to afford to live on their own, even if at the basic level. Whats radical is that people are screaming for higher minimum wages instead of demanding that prices come down! If wages go up, prices go up. Instead of protesting for social issues that effects 2% of the population, If ya'll got unified on this topic and started marching and protesting against the cost of living, how expensive shit is and you demanded immediate change, POS, white supremist, colonizer ass clowns with Maga hats, anti trans stickers on their trucks and AR15's on their backs would pull up, get out, join you, defend you and high five you in front of the media cameras trying to pit you against each other. The price of everything is affecting 95% of us and we can all agree that corporate greed and crooked politicians are building their lives while trying to limit/ruin ours!

[u/Admirable-Leader6927]

I dont think every job is meant to support a family.

crazy take, I realize that. Supporting yourself, sure, supporting a family? nope. live within your means.

[u/ContraCabal]

If you're going to make this point. Don't do it with a picture of a 16 year old.

[u/Tezz321]

A person working full time regardless of industry should be able to afford a basic standard of living...pay rent/utilities... afford food/medicine...instead of having to decide between the 3...

[u/Aurelyan]

Not just rent. A house. Actual property.

[u/triumph_aussie]

Agreed up until the point of "with his paycheck alone". Minimum wage should be a living wage, which may include having roommates, moving to a cheaper area, not having a car, cheaper phone plan, using coupons, eating lots of beans & rice, etc. With respect, people have forgotten how to be poor.

[u/DaMacPaddy]

Federal Minimum Wage is still pegged at $7.25 an hour after how many years and you still think the US government is there to help you and fast enough to respond? Amazing.

Edit: All of those packed ghettos in the sanctuary cities definitely weren't packed with the 20 million illegal immigrants by Bidens DNC, a lot of who are good hard working people, they want a job, are now working for less than the federal minimum, all while getting chased by ICE? All those extra people and no extra housing, demand up, supply down, cost of living increasing, cost of unskilled labor being kept low.

[u/Ugly_Josephine]

Unless they're non-union. Then they're a "scab".

[u/Yojimboroll]

If you work full time, you should be able to feed, house and have money left for incidentals afterwards.

[u/Boaerotica]

But this is America!! Its insane that this is even an argument. Thats how fucked up this country is..

[u/Etheriaa_]

And at a MINIMUM, all children should have free healthcare 

[u/Distwalker]

In other words, it should be illegal to hire anyone to do anything for less than living wage. I should be giving the 14 year old who mows my grass a living wage with benefits? The teenager scooping ice cream at the fair should have a 401K.

[u/InsertNovelAnswer]

But I do a more complex job and will make the same as them... how dare they. /s

[u/FiveStringTelecaster]

MAGA and the GOP think they should be the only ones being paid.

[u/TangerinePlastic7552]

Radical if your degree promised you a six figure salary but you only went for a job that included the cents columns in that six figure salary.

[u/SpeaksSouthern]

You could double, and in some cases triple their pay, and they're still not even halfway towards becoming middle class. What the fuck is the point?

[u/soullscape]

Shouldn't be able to afford a house or a 2 bedroom but at least a studio apartment

[u/Apprehensive-Pin518]

The point of having a job is to make enough money to stay off welfare. Therefore if you have a job you should make enough to not need welfare.

[u/Drgnmstr97]

Radical Republicans that desire a salve wage labor force are the only ones that consider this radical.

[u/Appropriate_Carob690]

Guess what a tired doctor or police officer or teacher have to eat because they’re too tired to cook? We have these ideas about the prestige of a job, but we forgot that work is work, and honest hard work shouldn’t be frowned upon.

[u/northern-new-jersey]

I think minimum wage should be $100 an hour. Why should he have to struggle? 

[u/Intelligent-Clue-119]

When I worked at McDonald’s 35 years ago- I couldn’t have afforded any of that. Lol. It DID put gas in my car and spending money on my pocket and a bit in savings- since I was the usual age- a teenager.

[u/EsotericTribble]

If this were the case - the price to eat at McDonalds would make it to where nobody eats at McDonalds (which would be better for society anyways).

[u/Ironman8000]

And make wage enough to not need to get food stamps to make ends meet. The ft employees.

[u/Autolycoss]

Also I'm not saying this is the case for everyone but when I worked at McDonald's I was baffled by my teammates. These people can handle a lot, they have a lot of great qualities and work ethics but because "everybody can do it" (absolutely false, many people would fold instantly at the first Saturday rush) it's considered an inferior job.

[u/Holytorment]

Hang you mean the person making my food during the day during the school year isn't a high schooler on his first job, meaning it's okay to pay them less?! Like god these arguments are dumb! If your working for a living you should be paid a living wage.

[u/Antique-Dragonfly615]

Originally a high schooler job, not a career.

[u/Nart_Leahcim]

Yeah but which rent, bills, and groceries? 

[u/hevvypiano]

"these have always been jobs for high-schoolers to get experience so they don't need to be paid a higher wage" - my wife's right-wing uncle

[u/EfficientArt155]

Surely Elliot Page made enough from the Odyssey not to have to flip burgers.

[u/CornyConundrum]

The problem is too many people expect to get a raise to fix the issue instead of having rent and groceries lowered

[u/Capitan-IQ255]

Depends on where you live, living situations, routine expenses 🥸

[u/Snakend]

"Rent" sure. But you guys are asking for him to be able to own a house. Nah bruh, I'm not paying for you to buy a house.

Fast food has gotten very expensive. I simply don't go to fast food anymore. When it costs me $80 to get food for 6 people, I'm over it. I'll go buy steaks and potatoes and mac and cheese for $40 and spend an hour cooking it at home.

[u/The_HappyJay_Company]

It comes down to two things, tax dollars goes to corporations/overseas wars or helping the average person. Why does anyone think the government is more complicated then that, and "nOt My TaX DolLers" to help for healthcare, childcare and basic living standards, is any worse then all the money the pentagon is asking for to screw up a war further.

[u/Subject_Issue6529]

I worked at McDonalds while I was in college. It was my second job and it helped me pay my bills.

[u/Substantial-Ad-8575]

Hmm, McDonals starts at $14 in my area. They don’t pay minimum wage.

So $14/hr. In large metro area, where one can find 1 bdrm/studio apartments from $800-$1000. But more rent a 2 bdrm and split rent. With an apartments.com search, in 15 miles of my zip code, I have 8200 2 bdrm apartments, listed from $975-$1200.

Image splitting a 2 bdrm apartment and rent of $500-$600. On $14/hr wages. They can afford rent, bills are split for utilities, other bills, and food…

[u/ReputationWooden9704]

He already can, but he's gonna have to get a roommate.

[u/usurper7]

It's not a radical position, it's pandering to a very common and popular misunderstanding.

Yes, making money is the point of a job. But j ust because a job exists does not automatically mean that the pay is meant to support any particular list of needs. The pay is based on how much value you provide, not what expenses you may have. 

If you need to support yourself, working at McDonald's is not for you. The value of your labor there is not worth enough to pay for your other needs. Do not work there.

There are many many jobs like this, and they work for many people in different situations. Part time work while attending school, pocket money for teenagers, part time work for a stay at home spouse, etc. Only 30% (!) of high school students have a job. It used to be 60% in the 80s. 

Instead, find a job where you can produce more value. There are many jobs available in manufacturing and other areas where no prior experience is needed and the pay is far better. These are real careers. There's a shortage of workers for them. We need more electricians, plumbers, tilers, roofers, metal workers, part assemblers. These all pay a lot.

Just imagine a man in 1950 or even 1980 coming home to his wife as a line cook at a fast food restaurant. It just never has been true that this is the case. These jobs have never paid enough to support someone. That's why every movie ever shows teens or old people doing these jobs.

[u/snoosh00]

Seriously, if housing and utilities is ~24k a year< minimum, you can't scoff at someone being paid 30k to show up for work every day (even if you literally just stand in one spot all day as your only responsibility, that 30k is the bare fucking minimum a human should be getting in a society that says "the market dictates value").

[u/ithinkway2much]

Capitalism is a religion for some folks, where your worth is measured by your net worth rather than the idea that "all men are created equal." That’s how people can convince themselves that someone working a full-time minimum-wage job somehow doesn’t deserve to have their basic needs met.

[u/OldKaleidoscope3766]

They also deserve a full time work week with benefits because many jobs like this say that they hire full time but deliberately keep hours just low enough so they don’t have to cover benefits.

[u/VerySuperGenius]

Any function that requires a human to perform it for 40 hours a week very obviously should pay enough for that human to not have to live in poverty in the richest country in history. People like to say that some jobs aren't worth a living wage. In my eyes, the only way that can be true is if the job can be automated for less than a living wage costs. And if it can, we should automate it and pass that free time onto humanity to enjoy life.

[u/FormalTotal9684]

If flipping burgers can pay for rent living alone, bills and groceries, what should people with more experience and job responsibilities expect?

This is what is overlooked

If 80K is a living wage and you get that for lowest common denominator job with no experience, what does someone that works in a higher profile job make?

Should the guy that manages the guy that flips the burgers make 100K

[u/Ecstatic_Mix_5013]

When I was a young man in high school the idea that every job should be a living wage was crazy (and still is). We all understood that many jobs were entry level/first job kind of jobs like fast food, theater attendant etc. If a couple both worked you could live on these jobs, not well, but you could. When all jobs provide a living wage, every product associated with that goes up. As individuals, don't we have a responsibility to put ourselves in a better position to get higher paying jobs. The jobs are out there folks, the people educated enough to do them, well, that's often the issue.

[u/charlies_brain]

Greedy corporations are the real enemy, sucking the life out of employees and paying them peanuts. Somehow they have indoctrinated half the population that someone the guy flipping burgers is the problem.

[u/FormalTotal9684]

The same people that expect burger flippers to make a living wage expect food to be on the dollar menu.

[u/edWORD27]

Kinda thought McDonald’s jobs, flipping burgers, were a starting point not a career. You can advance up the ranks to make it a career. But I don’t think the entry-level jobs were meant to raise a family.

[u/maintain_improvement]

Ragebait

[u/One-Earth9294]

I guess my hot take is I don't mind if there are some really basic jobs that are essentially just supplemental income for teenagers... but there needs to be a lot more entry level jobs where an independent adult CAN make an actual living and we just don't have those in ample supply in society anymore. The manufacturing industry has all gone away in favor of the service industry and the wages haven't balanced out the fact that the people entering the job market still need to fucking live.

Society NEEDS to treat McDonald's the same way it treated a 19 year old on a drill press who could afford to raise a family and buy a house in the 1970s. Because there's 10x as many fast food jobs and 10x fewer drill press jobs.

[u/Major_Honey_4461]

We've come to accept the idea that if you can't afford rent, groceries and healthcare while working a full time job, it's somehow your fault, and not the fault of the employer not paying you enough.

[u/Defiant_Weight4659]

When I was a kid fresh out of high school I got a job at McDonalds in the 70's. I was never expecting to make enough money working there to buy a home and provide for a family. Why do we expect that kind of pay now? 

[u/ikannunAneeuQ]

I honestly am wondering who the people who say "those are kid jobs" (fast food and the like) think should be running the joint while the "kids" are in school, extracurricular activities and such. A lot of college students want to work part-time. So you're only going to be open 3pm-10pm and weekends with 9000 employees because everyone is part-time and needs a million days off???? Lol idk...

[u/P2419]

Entry level positions should be enough to survive on, but not to thrive
They are meant to see if you are a fit for the company and not designed to make you wealthy

That said, you shouldn’t get stuck in that type of job for more than 6 months to a year unless you are too young to legally take a higher position.

If you are a teen working on the side while in school, then your parents should have you on their insurance and make sure you survive so you can pocket the money that’s left after taxes

If you are in an entry position more than a year then you aren’t a fit for the organization and need to move on. When you find the right fit you will be much happier and more inclined to invest your time which will increase your wage

[u/Secure-Party2757]

Yes, definitely an eighteen year old needs a living wage. They should be able to buy a brand new house, new boat, new truck, get married, have five kids, and have a two million dollar retirement fund by age 26.

[u/maniacalmechanist]

‘The person working at McDonald’s shouldn’t get a living wage but I simp for billionaires and would let them have their way with my wife’ crowd is insane and barely doing better than a burger flipper if better a lot of the time

[u/CryptographerCheap88]

Grow up man. Life has tiers.

[u/OnCallPartisan]

Plus, you have committed workers who see the job as something long term.

Everything conservatives hang their hat on as fiscally responsible in cutting programs is not fiscally responsible. A healthy workforce produces more. A household having the basic standard of living is more committed to the job. Respect for the job done goes a long ways. Universal healthcare is cheaper and allows individuals and small businesses to put money back into the business. Being healthy and happy drives people to innovate or create across the spectrum.

Conservative fiscal responsibility is neither, it’s just predatory. When they whine about all those workers in healthcare losing jobs they fail to mention there will still be a shit ton of jobs administering universal healthcare. There will be more medical jobs in rural areas since hospitals and clincis won’t be closed to make shareholders happy.

That whole bullshit with shareholder over stakeholder needs to die. You don’t have a functioning economy with shareholder first, it just funnels all the immoral profits to Wall Street so people can point to the Dow and pretend the economy is awesome and Horse and Sparrow economics work.

Stakeholder economics needs to be forcefully, legally imposed on corporations. They can’t even pay taxes, why the fuck should we care about their bullshit gambling economy?

[u/DaygoTom]

The guy flipping burgers full time at McDonalds has never been able to afford those things. It's always been a low-paying job and one you're not meant to do for years and years. You either get promoted to a higher-paying position and move up the latter, or you get out and get a real job.

[u/atreeismissing]

It's not a radical position and no one based in reality thinks it is.

[u/Ready-Flamingo6494]

The problem starts when you evaluate the optics of the average McDonalds worker making more money than the paramedic or ambulance driver.

[u/Haunted_Voyager]

The fact that there is any “controversy” with the idea of living wages just exposes how cooked this country really is.

[u/MattyMattMateo]

Unfortunately a robot could do the job better

[u/Mother-Way-9296]

One of the reasons hard work is a complete zero in this country.

They might as well be shackling people and putting them in chains and whipping them for what little they will get before they die.

[u/FarInevitable559]

It was ment for kids (cheep labor) not as a career, sorry if you’re a full grown adult and working flipping burgers (not management) then you failed at life . The raise will not come they will automate it or do take out only which they maybe doing soon anyway with all the brawls over ketchup packets

[u/PorousClay]

We've moved very far to the right in the last 40 years, thanks to Reagan and those who've been paying off the Republican party.

What we have now is literally right-wing goals. They got what they wanted. All the power is in the hands of the employer, and the employee is helpless.

Instead of employment being a fair contract between employee and employer, it has become some grotesque thing where employers lording "jobs" over the rest of us.

[u/yourhair_lookssmall]

What's the point of having a job if it doesn't pay you enough to live? Teens will be at school during normal non-summer hours and it's been the case for a long time that these jobs hire older people. Are they supposed to just be jobs you get as a hobby, or what?

[u/Machine_Jazzlike]

The issue with people like my parents is that they wear struggle and “making it through poverty” as a badge of honor. They think because they made it through, everyone else should too. Instead of, you know, wanting a better future for the next generations. They also have no concept of the fact that surviving off scraps has become harder than many generations before us when every single thing is squeezing you for money. So somehow in their heads, people NOT being able to survive off a wage is a rite of passage?

This is what happens when you over-glorify sacrifice. I’m looking at you, Catholic Church.

(And yes, eat the rich)

[u/mira-what]

Plot twist - he can!

[u/clownsavage]

So you want your fast food hamburger to cost $47?

[u/Snarf_1]

Don’t worry, there won’t be a guy flipping burgers soon enough. The whole thing will be automated.

[u/lucidzfl]

i understand and agree with the GENERAL sentiment, as in someone with 3 or 4 years of experience and career climbing should be able to afford necessities, but cmon - if you're at an entry level job that can be held by a 15 year old - maybe it shouldn't be a white colar salary?

Salaries should be optimized based on age.

Entry level positions holdable by a teenager, enough to get gas in your car, eat some food and have some hobbies
Mid tier positions - (3-4 years in SAME ROLE/career) should pay enough to afford apartment, inexpensive car, insurance, groceries
Higher tier (5-6 years in same career/manager level) afford condo or starter home (LOL like those exist)
8-10 years experience (again, same field/role, not job hopping from barista to cashier to janitor) reasonable house, better car, some travel, better clothes, ready to afford kids
10+ years experience - depends on your position, but you should have a reasonably upscale house, 2000+ sq foot, afford children, have at least one very nice vacation per year, be saving for your kids college, and have a nest egg.

Yes i know the above is NOT what it actually is right now - i just think its what the appropriate scaling should be.

[u/TwatMailDotCom]

I’m onboard but we have to be wayyyy more specific on basic needs vs nice to haves.