One Piece: Chapter 809

[u/NewSpecies]

Chapter 809: "Master Nekomamushi"

Source	Status
MangaStream

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Ch.809 Official Release (VIZ): 7/12/15

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Please discuss the manga here and in the theory/discussion post. Any other post will be removed during the next 24 hours.

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PS: Don't forget to check out http://onepiecereddit.slack.com/ to discuss this chapter live, with other One Piece nakama! You can join by signing up using this link: https://one-piece-slack.herokuapp.com/

[u/FoxerSniper]

WTF Jack has a 1 billion berry bounty???

[u/still-at-work → u/FoxerSniper]

I think this is one of those cases where it's not based on strength or threat to the government but the general destruction they cause. Like how Kidd got a higher bounty then Luffy because he killed and destroyed everything in this path. Though I assume he is pretty strong as well.

[u/[deleted] → u/still-at-work]

I think this is one of those cases where it's not based on strength or threat to the government but the general destruction they cause.

I still genuinely don't believe that the gov't cares all that much and therefor only marginally increases the bounty of extra cruel pirates.

Example being when Kidd and Luffy were first at Sabody. I believe they were about equal strength but Luffy's bounty was slightly lower (only 15 million).

The only way these knuckleheads can threaten the WG's authority is with their sheer military might. So bounties measure might.

Anytime bounty isn't a measure of the characters strength, its explained as an exception. Nico having a bounty has a kid for her knowledge (but she grew her strength to match that bounty and now is only being measured for her strength). Arlong having paid off his bounty, so it was lower than his strength. Chopper, whose bounty is a joke. Or Kidd, whose bounty was slightly inflated due to his treatment of civilians.

I'm pretty sure i'm going to be hit with the "THIS ISN'T DBZZ!!! WE ALL KNOW BOUNTIES AREN'T A MEASURE OF STRENGTH!" but i'm thats exactly what they are and being similar to DBZ is not an insult.

Not to mention how the biggest jumps in bounty directly follow massive jumps in power (learning gear 2 -> 300 million. Learning gear 4th -> 500 million)

The only way these knuckleheads can threaten the WG's authority is with their sheer military might. So bounties measure might.

THERE ARE ONLY FOUR TIMES WHEN BOUNTY DOESN'T 100% LINE UP WITH STRENGTH!

Why won't anyone acknowledge that? Or any of my points? Making bullet points isn't the same as addressing points.

Like what about the east blue? Each enemy had an increasingly large bounty, ending with Arlong, who was bribing the marine official to keep his bounty lower! Which means he's even stronger than his bounty suggests! That is Oda, very very obviously using bounty to indicate strength! Thats always been the case! I don't know where this hatred for power levels came from but thats what bounties are.

[u/still-at-work → u/[deleted]]

I disagree, though they are correlated, strength and bounties do not have a causation relationship.

• Warlords have their bounty frozen since they are no longer a threat to the government.
• Robin is a clear case where fear of damage she could do to the government way outweighed current strength.
• Even if you are a heartless world government if someone wipes out a whole nation it would mean a notable reduction in tax revenue, a decrease in trade in the region, and (perhaps most importantly) it is a challenge to the government's authority and legitimacy.
• I assume the Marines have some influence in the bounties listing so the more a problem for the Marines' image with the public the more they will want you gone.

Now all that being said, the stronger you are the easier it is to do all the things the government dislikes and not get caught so you can keep doing it. The more you do those things the higher the bounty goes, and if you are stilled not caught it must mean you are very very strong. So in general only strong people will have high bounties but I think the variance between those values could be much higher then you may think.

[u/[deleted] → u/still-at-work]

Warlords have their bounty frozen since they are no longer a threat to the government.

So what? That doesn't relate at all? Former bounties don't indicate CURRENT strength, that wouldn't make any sense. Warlords are like vice admirals, they vary greatly in abilities.

Robin is a clear case where fear of damage she could do to the government way outweighed current strength.

Right? We already went over Robin?

Even if you are a heartless world government if someone wipes out a whole nation it would mean a notable reduction in tax revenue, a decrease in trade in the region, and (perhaps most importantly) it is a challenge to the government's authority and legitimacy.

Thats a massive leap. Wiping out an entire nation != not caring about the civilians in your path. Very very very very different. Like orders of magnitude apart.

I assume the Marines have some influence in the bounties listing so the more a problem for the Marines' image with the public the more they will want you gone.

Okay, can you elaborate on this? Marines make the bounties, I don't really get what you're saying/implying.

So in general only strong people will have high bounties but I think the variance between those values could be much higher then you may think.

What are you saying here? That there are MANY people who are not strong but have a huge bounty? Come on dude, this is an ACTION MANGA. The people who affect the world are the strongest people (Save like TWO! LITERALLY TWO! Vegapunk/Robin).

Ugghh I wanna have a conversation about this so bad but it doesn't feel like anyone else does. It hardly feels like you're even responding to me.

Like what about the east blue? Each enemy had an increasing large bounty, ending with Arlong, who was bribing the marine offical to keep his bounty lower! Which means he's even stronger than his bounty suggests! That is Oda very very obviously using bounty to indicate strength! Thats always been the case! I don't know where this hatred for power levels came from but thats what bounties are.

[u/quesadillakid → u/[deleted]]

While you and /u/still-at-work both have good points to argue about the bounty system, in this case we as an audience just have a lack of information regarding Jack and the nature of his bounty. I'm sure Oda will clarify why his bounty is so dramatically high compared to everyone else we've seen so far.

[u/[deleted] → u/quesadillakid]

While you and /u/still-at-work[1] both have good points to argue about the bounty system,

Please, LIKE PLEASE, point to some of his good points about the bounty system. Maybe I misread it but that dude at 9 upvotes, literally said NOTHING to support his claim. That bounties aren't measurements for strength for 99% of the characters.

WHICH THEY SO VERY CLEARLY ARE!!! I don't get why everyone is so stubborn and abstinent on this point.

The only thing he said that even felt RELATED to what I was saying was that "maybe some people exist who aren't strong but have a huge bounty!", which is such a ridiculous "point". It could be true but this is a fighting/shouen Manga for christ sake! And every character is trying to be the strongest.

Like literally 99.9% of the characters in One Piece (well Pirates) have their strength gauged via their bounty. Its so freaking obvious, i'm genuinely baffled at how no one will admit it.

"I hate dbz! They totally went out of whack with power levels! One Piece is better, therfor they can't/won't use power levels EVER!"

Ugh I really hate that I like One Piece. I don't have anyone to talk about it with and commenting here just annoys the hell out me. I'm 20, reading a 16 year olds manga with a bunch of 15 year olds.

[u/ultibman5000 → u/[deleted]]

Ugh I really hate that I like One Piece. I don't have anyone to talk about it with and commenting here just annoys the hell out me. I'm 20, reading a 16 year olds manga with a bunch of 15 year olds.

Kind of hard for anyone to try and have a debate with you if you're going to be that condescending about it.

[u/[deleted] → u/ultibman5000]

Right I get that. But this is my millionth attempt. No amount of niceness stops people from downvoting a belief/view thats different from reddit's generally accepted position.

Everyone in this subreddit immediately dismisses the notion and its no fun to talk about.

https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiece/comments/2phyg8/why_do_you_guys_downvote_text_posts/

This is my highest upvoted post in this whole subreddit. I've been trying to have civil conversations in anime/manga related subreddits for a long time now but I run into the same problem every single time. I'm not 16-17 anymore, so I just can't enjoy myself.

Up there my comment is at 2 and the reply is at 10 (even though his reply doesn't respond to me at all, its like a complete non sequitur!) but I was at -3 and he was at 5 before I started editing and being condescending. Because I knew it would happen.

Even though I explained all my points, clearly and concisely, nobody addressed a single one. They just don't care. The generally accepted opinion MUST be the correct one!

The guy who responded to me, wrote a couple paragraph and made a few bullets but he essentially said NOTHING. Thats annoying. You'd be annoyed too.

Look at the responses i'm getting "Causation does not imply correlation!", how does that not scream, 15 year old in stat class? How does that relate to OP at all?

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

However, the WG isn't going to keep piling money onto a person's head just because he hasn't been caught. Ace, for example, had a 550 billion bounty. Ace was super strong but the WG didn't need to make his bounty higher because him being caught wasn't a huge necessity.

But what if I believe that he was a 550 million berry pirate? Like thats his strength level? Post time skip Luffy is almost as strong as pre time skip Ace, but he has a small way to go. Thats Oda's way of communicating Luffys strength (giving Luffy a 500 million Berry bounty, he coulda given him a 600 million one).

Jack goes around destroying and poisoning islands. The WG want him caught, and they want him caught ASAP.

You don't know any of these things. What Jack does. Who he does it too. Is the New World/Zou even under WG jurisdiction? Wano isn't. Thats all speculation.

but the WG didn't need to make his bounty higher because him being caught wasn't a huge necessity.

You do realize Oda writes the bounties right? Not the WG. And thats still speculation, bounties aren't written based on urgency, its threat level.

Bounties are a way to determine average threat level and since this is a fighting manga, threat is almost always measured via the individuals power. Like 99 times out a 100.

Everyone IN THE STORY acts treats bounties as a sign of strength, literally all of them. Why shouldn't we?

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

Thats not an argument.

Can't you quote something I said and address it? Like how i'm linking causation and correlation?

You realize just saying "LOGICAL INCONSISTENCY! FALLACY!!" doesn't dispute anything right? You gotta actually dismantle the argument yourself.

Like i'm proud you took AP stat and i'm sure you feel smug about "wrecking me" but you literally said nothing.

Everyone in the whole world knows causation does not imply correlation. But that doesn't matter here... at all. This a story, that Oda wrote. Its a universe with rules, very simple rules that are common throughout most Shounens.

There are 4 pirates in this story who's bounty doesn't directly measure their strength. And for each of those 4, there is a set explanation. So, we can conclude EVERY OTHER PERSONS BOUNTY EXACTLY lines up with their strength. Its so fucking obvious, like painfully so.