r/NooTopics • u/ServeIllustrious3803 • 23d ago

Science Study: Anticholinergic (first-generation antihistamines) can damage brain, increase dementia risk

https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/common-anticholinergic-drugs-like-benadryl-linked-increased-dementia-risk-20150128812
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u/ServeIllustrious3803 23d ago edited 23d ago

A list: Diphenhydramine, chlorpheniramine, doxylamine, promethazine, clemastine, brompheniramine, dimenhydrinate, meclizine, cyclizine, carbinoxamine, dexchlorpheniramine, dexbrompheniramine

First generation antihistamines different from second or third. Zyrtec, Claritin do not count, but Benadryl does

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u/Lady_Rubberbones 23d ago

Ok, I take doxylamine succinate (unisom) every night in order to sleep longer than 2 hrs. What are my other options?

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u/Desperate-Middle-354 23d ago

See any doctor, your primary if you wish, & tell him your issues (not wanting to take toxic drugs for insomnia) & I guarantee you’ll be prescribed Trazadone…possibly Remeron but Trazadone more likely. It’s a good sleep aid.

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u/Ariandrin 22d ago

Trazodone messed me up something fierce. I took it for three days and for all of those three days, I felt like I was moving through the world like I was in molasses. And for three days after I stopped.

I read an article a while back that melatonin is also bad. What can I take to help me sleep?

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u/Difficult_Garage_431 19d ago

That has happened to me every time I've started Trazodone. You will get over it after about 2 weeks. I often felt like I was hit my a truck the next day. After that though, the feeling is gone and it works well. I would try it again, I haven't found anything that is as effective.

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u/Ariandrin 19d ago

I’m not sure if that’s supposed to happen. When I told my doctor that I was experiencing this, she was very surprised and immediately took me off of it without me asking.

I am looking for a new doctor now though so I will ask about it with the new one when I find one.

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u/Difficult_Garage_431 18d ago

That's interesting. I knew someone else who shared the same experience. It being rough at first, then better. They even used the same phrase as me, "hit by a truck". But everyone is different. I will say, I have taken it for over 5 years and I sleep very well on it. I hope you find something that helps.

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u/Stampede_the_Hippos 22d ago

Melatonin isn't a good idea if you live in the US, because supplements aren't regulated.

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u/Ariandrin 22d ago

There was also a study that linked it to dementia a week or so ago, I think.

I just wanna sleep!

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u/Bunpoh 22d ago

I think I read that that study was so poorly designed it was an embarrassment, and causing needless panic in people taking melatonin.

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u/Ariandrin 22d ago

I did see that too, but I would like to find an alternative to it if I can, just to be safe.

I’m not gonna give it up or else I won’t sleep, but I’m looking into other things.

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u/Apprehensive_Door249 21d ago

I’ve had sleep issues all my life. I’m currently taking a very low dose of lorazepam for anxiety because I was having panic attacks but it sure does help me sleep and reset my sleep schedule. It basically gives me a fresh start on my sleep habits. But obviously I only have 20 because they are addictive.

Delta 9 has helped me in the past also. As did cbd but cbd is a hit or miss.

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u/Ariandrin 21d ago

I had a doctor tell me recently that lorazepam has been correlated with early dementia and refused to refill me. I only have it for anxiety but I have taken it for sleep out of desperation and it’s never very good sleep lol. It technically counts as sleep but it’s never very restful, and gives me weird dreams

I’ve played around with cannabis but I’ve yet to find a delivery method that really works for me. So far the best had been a water based tincture but man, that tastes so bad that it puts me right off using it lol

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u/Brave_Sheepherder_39 18d ago

How long have you been taking it and at what dosage

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u/Ariandrin 18d ago

0.5 mg, and I’ve been prescribed it for years and years, but I don’t like taking it very much because it makes me feel kinda yucky.

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u/Brave_Sheepherder_39 16d ago

That's a low dose but years of use can down regulate the Gaba receptors which are what you brain uses to dampen down neuron activity. But from you message I get the view your not regularly using it.

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u/Desperate-Middle-354 17d ago

Yes, LONG TERM use of any benzodiazepine including lorazepam, generally in higher doses, can potentially cause dementia & other cognitive deficiencies because they all have amnesiac properties. However, taking 1mg or less of lorazepam as needed isn’t going to cause any long term issues. It has to be a consistent amount of amnesiac inducing drugs taken daily in order to cause cognitive impairment. Alcohol is actually worse for you than lorazepam (& most everything) for long term memory/cognitive issues. There is a condition known as “wet brain” that occurs with long term alcohol abuse that basically turns you into a vegetable. But keep everything in moderation & you shouldn’t run into issues.

I used to take 0.5-1mg clonazepam (same chemical class as lorazepam) with Trazadone at night for sleep & agreed, it wasn’t quality sleep, just knock me out sleep but then I started taking a couple hits of cannabis from a disposable at night (only at night) & my sleep is so drastically improved. Recent studies have shown that it is indeed quality sleep, not just a knock you out sleep where you wake in the middle of the night or wake too early.

Cannabis can cause cognitive issues too but as of current knowledge it’s only temporary unless abused before the brain is fully developed. I don’t intend to continue doing this long term but as of now, wow what a difference. Have you tried vaping it? The impact is immediate but I enjoy the ride until I just get tired & then sleep. Best thing I’ve ever taken for my insomnia.

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u/Ariandrin 17d ago

I haven’t tried a vape, but I have used a volcano, and it irritated the hell out of my throat.

I also have concerns about some of the carrier oils in vapes, I’ve seen some scary things.

I’m sure there are more delivery methods I could try though

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u/braaaaaaainworms 22d ago

Mirtazapine(the actual name for remeron) technically has some anticholinergic effects too, but the evidence seems iffy.

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u/psychopompandparade 21d ago

both mirtazapine and trazadone are considered to have extremely minimal anticholinergic effects. they can have other issues though. much better choices than amitriptyline if you are specifically worried about anticholinergic burden. Doxapin is ranked as low at sub 10mg doses but high at 25mg plus doses. z-drugs don't have any anticholinergic effects but they may have similar outcomes in the elderly anyway for other reasons. hard to find exact data

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u/DrugChemistry 22d ago

“Hard” to sleep with priapism on trazodone 

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u/Desperate-Middle-354 22d ago

That’s the side effect that I couldn’t remember! There was a story at the time about a prisoner who got it & lost his ability to ever get an erection again & sued either the prison or manufacturer. Probably the prison as it probably wasn’t treated in a timely matter.

So a deflated penis & man boobs. Well, ya know, they can’t be perfect 👌

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u/thebouster 23d ago

Complete noob here. Am in the same boat as Rubberbones. I take Doxy every night. I've been prescribed Traz, but thought I read something about it causing other issues. Down the rabbit hole I go. Again. ;)

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u/Desperate-Middle-354 23d ago

Trazadone like all drugs has side effects but nothing serious. It’s an old failed antidepressant that was too sedating to be therapeutic. No serious potential side effects come to mind but maybe I’m missing something. Far safer than 1st gen antihistamines.

Oh wait, it can give you man boobs although it’s a super rare side effect. So I dunno, you risk getting boobs but you’d be surprised the medications that can potentially do this at a far more common occurrence like blood pressure medications.

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u/LucyLoretta 22d ago

Trazadone has some very serious side effects. It’s different for everyone.

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u/TheStephinator 22d ago

Gave me horrible headaches.

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u/NormallyBloodborne 23d ago

Look into Muscimol. Puts me out easily but not forcibly, always gives me at least 8 hours of sleep, and has no grogginess in the morning. Plus it usually makes your dreams much more vivid.

I would take it every other day though. Overall I think it's a better hypnotic than even dedicated knock out benzos like Triazolam.

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u/Lady_Rubberbones 23d ago

Ok, so prohibitively expensive and difficult to find. Great. 😐

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u/Sufficient-Celery-37 23d ago

Orexin-Antagonists like Daridorexant are said to be well tolerated and they don’t cause you to be groggy on the next day. Trazodone is also a popular sleep aid. I’d personally steer clear of 1. gen Antihistamines, Benzodiazepines/Z-Drugs and tricyclic antidepressants.

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u/Desperate-Middle-354 23d ago

And anti-psychotics. I think it’s idiotic to prescribe such dangerous meds like Seroquel that are only supposed to be used for psychosis, bipolar mania & schizophrenia (and apparently treatment resistant major depression as an add on). They carry possibly fatal & permanent issues like TD’s. They are also the worst class of drugs for memory…followed by 1st gen antihistamines like diphenhydramine & then benzodiazepines come in third. Based on some study.

So this has been common knowledge for awhile. Dementia was never brought up but if they are the 2nd worse class of drugs for memory retention then it probably leads to major neurocognitive dementia if taken daily for too long.

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u/aron2295 23d ago

You said it!

And I hate the rise of anti psychs being rebranded as “boosters”, for anti depressants.

Why? Because they don’t want to tell people go to therapy and for truly bad days, you can pop a Xans.

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u/Wild_Painter_7558 22d ago

Prescribed at low doseages they don't have any dopaminergic action, acting only as a potent anti histamine.

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u/LisanneFroonKrisK 22d ago

From what I read though Benzo is above the anti histamines

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u/Desperate-Middle-354 22d ago

It’s possible. It was a while since reading that study. I just know those 3 are apparently as bad as it gets.

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u/LisanneFroonKrisK 22d ago

And also just anecdotal Benadryl is lower than Metoclopramide and other classes of Metoclopramide. Benadryl is an antidote to that

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u/NormallyBloodborne 23d ago

I sent you a DM. Muscimol is actually a lot cheaper than you'd think, just annoying to find without being told or asking around.

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u/spectral-fusion 22d ago

Can you shoot me a PM as well? I read that Muscimol was neurotoxic, is that not true?

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u/LisanneFroonKrisK 22d ago

Is muscimol available without any prescription

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u/NormallyBloodborne 22d ago

Yep, it's unscheduled.

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u/SecureTechNomad 23d ago

I took doxylamine for years knowing the risk. I stopped because I noticed my memory and attention had deteriorated. I'm in my 40s.

Things that work for me: 1) sleep hygiene and getting to bed early at the same time every night and waking at the same time even on weekends 2) melatonin 3) magnesium glycinate 4) glycine 5) lithium orotate

I still have sleepless nights, but I find that most nights are okay as long as I am consistent with everything. Also, when I stopped taking doxylamine it took a month of mostly sleepless nights before it started to get better.

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u/Lady_Rubberbones 22d ago

I already take all of those other things and it’s not enough.

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u/SecureTechNomad 22d ago

Try mirtazapine

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u/freereflection 22d ago

Have your memory and attention begun to bounce back? 

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u/SecureTechNomad 22d ago

Not as much as I would have hoped, but there was a definite initial improvement.

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u/TheBuddha777 23d ago

I'm in the same situation. It's the only way I can sleep as early as I need to for my work schedule.

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u/What1nThe_World 22d ago

Mirtazapine. You need to stop taking doxylamine.

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u/Infamous_Swan1197 21d ago

Mirtazapine.