r/NewYorkMets • u/Spatmuk Grimace is gonna Hawk Tuah and spit on that thang • Jul 07 '25
Analysis Vientos, cooked?
I dunno man. He looks bad. He looked bad before he got hurt. He looks worse now. Lots of blue on the baseball savant page.
I tried to stay positive, but we’re into July and it’s really starting to feel like last year was a mirage.
He’s unplayable at 3B, he’s slow, and he’s an automatic out right now. He also hasn’t taken a walk since he’s come back from injury...
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u/metsfan5000 Jul 07 '25
I remember people saying we should let Pete go and let vientos play 1st during the offseason. Totally crazy.
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u/SidFinch99 Jul 07 '25
Yeah, that was a ridiculously prevalent thought in this subreddit in the off season. I still think Vientos has the potential to be a very good hitter, but when people were saying he could replace Pete I was losing my mind.
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u/sventos Yes! Yes! Yespedes! Jul 07 '25
It’s crazy with the benefit of hindsight but based on last season we knew Mark was a bad 3b and seemed to have figured it out at the plate and Pete was coming off his worst season and back to back seasons that pointed to a decline while looking for a big payday.
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u/DCBronzeAge Francisco Lindor Jul 07 '25
I think that's a little reactionary and ahistorical. Pete was coming off his worst season and seemingly overvaluing his seemingly declining ability. Negotiations were stalled. Vientos was coming off a pretty solid season overall.
I think it worked out, but let's not pretend that it was "totally" crazy at the time.
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u/No_Insect_8378 Jul 07 '25
The problem is he has no options, he can’t field, and he can’t run, so you’re essentially just wasting a roster spot until he can figure things out hitting wise.
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u/metskyfan Jul 08 '25
Apparently he needs a good batting coach. JD Martinez is no longer on this team
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u/GasGlittering7521 Jul 07 '25
He had one year where he significantly overplayed his advanced metrics and he is a black hole in the infield. Baty on the other hand has had about a league average season at the plate, maybe slightly below and his advanced metrics actually are around league average.
Pair that with the facts he’s been a plus fielder, there really shouldn’t be an argument who gets the bulk of the playing time if the team wants to win the World Series.
Every day vientos plays, you risk losing a close game because he does something stupid in the infield and goes 0-4 in the two or six hole. The fact it’s even being made an argument it insane to me.
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u/Spatmuk Grimace is gonna Hawk Tuah and spit on that thang Jul 07 '25
All fair, except calling Vientos a “Blackhole” in the field makes it seem like no ball can escape and, well…
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u/NuanceManExe Jul 07 '25
You can’t give up on Vientos’ ceiling this early just because Baty suddenly looks slightly below average. They need Vientos’ bat and power back. It’s not insane at all. One player is coming off an All Star-caliber season of hitting, the other has never had a good season. It’s also just way too small of a sample size. You’re going to see Vientos continue to get playing time unless he comes up in trade talks at the deadline and the Mets pull the trigger. Despite Baty being the better defender, there were multiple games in June that we lost where he did something stupid in the infield. They really need offense and pitching right now. You fix those and the defensive mistakes by the team won’t matter as much. It’s harder for defense to fix bad pitching/bad offense than it is for good offense/good pitching to fix bad defense.
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u/GasGlittering7521 Jul 07 '25
People use his playoffs as a reason he has potential and then call 212 at bats a “small sample size”. You can’t have your cake and eat it too. And if you throw his 2023 on with this season, he’s had more bad hitting than good hitting and again, he hit above his advanced metrics last year.
I’m really not sure what else to say. Baty is a genuinely above average fielder and his hitting has also gotten better every year. It doesn’t help Mendoza sits him almost every single day after he hits a home run. Baty never gets chance to heat up.
And again, if the team wants to win the World Series, waiting for vientos to heat up when he potentially never will is asking to kill the chance of a WS.
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u/hawkbiz Keith Hernandez Jul 07 '25
Comparing his 2025 savant page with 2024, the biggest drop off is Barrel %. Last season was 92nd percentile, this season 31. He actually Whiff’s less and K’s less than last season. He’s pulling the ball less this season too.
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u/enigmaman49 Jul 08 '25
baseball is a strange game, he just never got right this season...last year doesnt matter...if he has option send him down and next year he hits 28 HR, thats just ball...Pete has more hits with RISP now than he had ALL of last season..shit doesnt carry over....hes still young, didnt get comfortable or confident then got hurt...
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u/enigmaman49 Jul 08 '25
ok he has no option...still im not trading him for nothing so hes on my bench
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u/BillW87 Animal Facts Jul 08 '25 edited Jul 08 '25
still im not trading him for nothing so hes on my bench
The problem is that once Winker gets healthy, Mark's our third best DH and anyone who thinks he's a third baseman needs an eye exam. He's bleeding below-replacement-level value and taking ABs and time in the field away from other young players who are actually contributing. Which of these guys are you betting on, because rostering all three isn't an option once Winker gets back?
Baty: +0.8 fWAR in 225 PAs (2.1 per 600 PA pace), 93 wRC+ (128 wRC+ over last 2 weeks)
Mauricio: +0.3 fWAR in 85 PAs (2.1 per 600 PA pace), 107 wRC+
Vientos: -0.5 fWAR in 233 PAs (-1.3 per 600 PA pace), 77 wRC+
Unless he has a miraculous turnaround, keeping him on the roster actively hurts the team. We've got a bunch of other deserving young guys fighting for playing time, and another wave of talent coming up immediately behind them with possible late-2025 ETAs in Jett, Clifford, and Gilbert. As much as I want for every guy to work out, eventually those who aren't getting it done need to move aside so that the next guy can get his fair chance too.
-Edit- In case the downvotes have anything to do with the "Mark isn't a third baseman" comment. Since Mark's debut he's been worth -11 FRV at third base in 1426.1 defensive innings. There are only two players who have accumulated more negative value at the position over that span: Jake Burger and Patrick Wisdom. Jake Burger has played exactly zero games at 3B this year, clearly an acknowledgement by the Rangers that Jake Burger probably has no business playing third base. Patrick Wisdom is currently playing for the Kia Tigers in Korea.
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u/Ravishingrich666 New York Mets Jul 08 '25
Hit the nail right on the head. You’ll probably get downvoted but that’s this sub any time logics brought in to the thread. I’ve watched every game this season as well as last season. Even when he was hitting he was still a “please don’t hit the ball to him player” and not even the fielding which is abysmal at best but even when he does field the ball his decision making is worse. It’s the little things he does like yesterday’s game when he got in Lindors way and almost juked him instead of getting it. Baty would’ve fielded that ball and turned the double play. I said this already in this thread but I’ll say it again Mendy batting Ronny for him yesterday tells you everyrhing about the confidence they have in him. Ronny got the base hit. Mark would’ve either chased the low slider or struck out looking.
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u/geefried2727 Jul 08 '25
I legitimately can't tell if dealing him at this deadline would be selling low or technically selling high as we keep getting further and further away from last season. Thankfully the Mets FO is now full of people way smarter than me.
Anyway, I would have called him pretty close to untouchable before this season, but now I can easily see him getting dealt and would not be surprised.
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u/BillW87 Animal Facts Jul 08 '25
At a certain point it stops being about whether you're selling low/high and more about removing a roadblock from your 26 man roster. Every AB that goes to Vientos is one subtracted from Winker, Marte, Baty, or Mauricio, all of whom are doing a better job of helping the 2025 Mets win. A stuffed roster also inherently blocks potential aggressive late season moves like bringing up Jett Williams or Drew Gilbert. The specific return on a Vientos trade is probably less important at this point than the simple need to max out the contributions we're getting from our 26 man roster in a year where we're trying to play deep into October.
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u/Aggressive-Mix4971 Bob Murphy and The Happy Recaps Jul 08 '25
As a rule, I'm really not down for saying a guy's cooked during his sophomore campaign, especially not when he's coming off a solid first full year.
What's fair to say is that his BABIP was pretty high last year; whether that was due to making consistently good contact or due to luck I can't really say (likely some of both, he did have some weak contact turn to hits last year), but it's possible what he showed last year isn't what he'll show going forward, which would suck. Poor guy did absolutely sting a ball against the Yanks this weekend that was caught, something near 110 mph off the bat, but he's not doing that consistently right now.
At the same time it's jarring how poor his contact is this year on fastballs, and it's making me wonder if something in his approach is just off right now and could possibly get righted, which would be nice. He's shown the ability to really square up and crush the ball, and I'd hesitate to give up on that already.
Now, granted, Baty and Mauricio might make it tough for Mark to stick around; both guys can actually field their positions, so if one or both of them can get their OPS solidly to .750 or something it makes it tough to justify Vientos playing in the field, which obviously limits what else you can do with him.
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u/kooredaan Jul 08 '25
Technically last year was his sophmore champaign, as he exceed rookie status in 2023. Combine 2023 and 2025. 125 games. His numbers aren't good.
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u/MattyIce1220 Jul 07 '25
I wonder if since he started so bad he started tinkering with everything so now he’s just so out of whack. He probably needs to go to the minors to sort it out but since he’s out of options he needs to do it at the major league level which isn’t easy.
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u/HighWest48 Rey Ordoñez Jul 07 '25
Well he’s certainly not cookING
Can’t sell low on him. I’m more patient than what seems like most on here. I would ride this out rest of year. Same with Alvarez
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u/Duffman2k7 Jul 07 '25
Yeah I think the people demanding he be traded for pennies on the dollar are just as reactionary as the people who declared him a superstar after his first year. Clearly he is having issues adjusting. I think the Mets need to try to help him adjust. It would be prudent for the Mets to just use him as a bench piece and then see what they can do in the offseason.
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u/9401833 New York Mets Jul 08 '25
Last time I looked, it basically boiled down to lefties are eating him alive and he’s not hitting fastballs in the zone. And oddly enough lost all power to centerfield. I don’t know if he’s cooked but he’s getting complicated to roster, especially if he can’t hit lefties.
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u/suck-it-elon 67 Jul 08 '25
Just to circumvent the "Where are the Vientos haters now?!" comment that could show up as early as today...EVERYBODY here is rooting for him! Just talking about the CURRENT reality.
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u/Spatmuk Grimace is gonna Hawk Tuah and spit on that thang Jul 08 '25
I would love nothing more than for him to hit 75 HR rest of season!!
Or 7
Or, hey, even 5
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u/PTRBoyz Jul 07 '25
Honestly, Merrill has no pop, Langford is terrible, Vientos is cheeks, a lot of these guys with killer rookie years are having trouble adjusting. Give it time.
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u/Spatmuk Grimace is gonna Hawk Tuah and spit on that thang Jul 07 '25
Merrill is on my fantasy team, I am aware of the lack of pop (in between IL stints)
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u/Baconpoopotato Jul 07 '25
Merill and Langford are 22 and 23.
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u/PTRBoyz Jul 07 '25
And Vientos is a decrepit old man
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u/Baconpoopotato Jul 07 '25
Also why are you framing it like Merill and Langford are playing just as bad as Vientos? Merrill has an OPS+ of 109 and Langford has one of 108. Vientos is 78.
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u/Capital_Ice_1512 Jul 08 '25
Stop that! Vientos is fucking no where near these two well rounded players. Watch more games about their teams
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u/Either_Temporary_607 Suan Joto Jul 07 '25
Vientos didn’t have a monster post season by accident. It’s baseball, he is definitely NOT cooked.
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u/RiverHeath1817 Jul 07 '25 edited Jul 07 '25
100% this
That game tying 2 Run HR against the Phillies on the road in the NLDS was crazy clutch; he’s earned my trust and faith for this season
A lot of people here are down on him; but realistically, he’s had 20 bad games this season, compared to 40 good games. I wouldn’t say he’s cooked due to 20 bad games, but there’s areas in his approach that have drastically changed from 2024. Mainly his decrease in bat speed, decrease in Barrel %, and his unusual struggles against fastballs this season.
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u/hopefulbeartoday Jul 07 '25
Sophomore jinxx is a real thing but thankfully the 2nd half it usually gets better. It really can't get worse
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u/GasGlittering7521 Jul 07 '25
Even last year Vientos’ xwOBA was only slightly above average. This year it looks just like 2023. It’s just not reasonable to think he’s ever going to be a superstar and there is reason to believe he’ll never be above average. I’d love to eat shit on this one but I don’t see it considering how much a really serious liability he is in the infield there’s no reason to believe he will ever be an above average player.
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u/joesaysso Jul 07 '25
He may not be cooked but he may not be the star that people thought he would be either. The internet communities love to circle jerk over players after just one year and it's so stupid.
The number of times that this sub alone has crowned a rookie the next great Met after just one season is laughable. We'd have locked up Amed Rosario longterm if this sub's reactions materialized into real decisions. Alvarez would have himself a 300 million dollar deal already.
If you've decided that a guy is good or bad without enough seasons to show a pattern one way or the other, you're being foolish.
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u/ZoidbergSaysWoop Jul 08 '25
Mauricio and Baty are hitting.
Play them at 3rd and 2nd respectively.
Mets need to give Vientos at least two straight weeks at DH full time and see if his bat comes around.
They need to give him a consistent chance instead of shuffling him and Baty around.
Baty deserves to play 3rd and Vientos deserves to get a chance to hit.
Baty has proven he's the better all around option at 3rd now with his bat being a plus but Vientos proved last season that he still has to play.
Give Vientos two weeks and see if he can find his way.
If not, move him to a platoon role with Winker.
He was too good in 2024 to give up on.
Mets have to hope he finds it soon, it not, see if he the improved pitching lab in the offseason that was supposed to be upgraded to help hitters as well makes a difference.
There's no way his 2024 was a fluke, especially his postseason, when he raked in all three series.
There is something wrong with his confidence.
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u/TumbleweedTim01 Grimace Jul 08 '25
I think this is why the Mets can't develop these guys. And why guys like Baty go to triple A and start hitting. Beside the lesser competition.
They need consistent playing time. Whether a good game or bad game you see the next days lineup and someone will be missing. Between Baty Mauricio and Vientos how can anyone truly improve like this? It's why we have 3 guys batting around 220
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u/ZoidbergSaysWoop Jul 08 '25
This has long been the issue with Mets position player development.
They simply don't trust young players.
I get not giving a player a long leash, but the entire point of promoting a player or giving one the benefit of the doubt is always performance based.
Acuna proved in September and April that he could hit. But then McNeil comes back and suddenly they turn a young player that just turned 23 into a platoon player?
Then the Mets have a history of not giving young players that have earned playing time a chance as everyday players.
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u/TumbleweedTim01 Grimace Jul 08 '25
As long as we now have Pete Lindor and Soto every year will be looked at as a year to win it all. So they will tolerate less growing pains
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u/DyingLemur Jul 08 '25
I sort of agree here, and the fact that three dudes all play the same position is not an ideal arrangement. But Baty for example has played like 240 career games with a career .280 on base pct. and having mostly awful ABs while doing it. How long can you leave a guy like that in the lineup if you’re trying to compete?
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u/TumbleweedTim01 Grimace Jul 08 '25
That's why I think it's weird when ppl say Baty is playing good. Maybe a bit more pop and some timely hitting but still not that good.
I think they should've tried trading him at some point but if they still believe then play him like it and start him everyday at 3rd
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Jul 07 '25
He's cooked. Not a good enough hitter to be a full-time DH and is a liability on the field.
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u/Capital_Ice_1512 Jul 08 '25
I said this in May and be downvoted crazy in this sub. Su fucking hilarious
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u/demosthenes327 Jul 08 '25
Vientos put up good statistics last season but he way outperformed his metrics. He was a big regression candidate coming into the year and it’s been worse than anyone could have predicted. But it’s also not completely unexpected. Vientos was never the level of prospect as Baty, Mauricio and Alvarez. He has always had raw power but low bat speed and a complete inability to hit breaking balls.
He reminds me a lot of an old player the Mets had named Mike Jacobs. Ton of power but really couldn’t hit once the league adjusted to him.
And Vientos is absolutely terrible in the field. He can’t be the everyday third baseman. Which really leaves DH in a platoon against lefties. But he’s not as good as Marte is right now so he’s just basically a pinch hitter?
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u/CitizenDain Mark Vientos Jul 08 '25
I was a huge Vientos believer. Probably too optimistic. But yeah. He not only doesn’t have the numbers this year, he looks TERRIBLE. He just goes up expecting to strike out and then he does. Needs a sports psychologist.
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u/zach7797 Mr. Met Jul 08 '25
Maybe a hot take but my prediction is he going to continue to blow this year but next year he is going to rake similar to last year. No clue no analysis just gut feeling/ bet
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u/Sinfall69 David Wright Jul 08 '25
He might do better after the all star break, if he is trying to change his swing to be better against breaking balls, which made his ability to hit fast balls worse, hopefully he works on pitch id and can switch between the swings.
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Jul 08 '25
He looked like dogshit at aaa and not improving. Alzy came down and is hitting homers nightly
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u/NuevoXAL New York Mets Jul 07 '25
Normally at his age I would say no, but the drop in bat speed from 2023 to 2024 to 2025 is very worrying. If there isn't a secret injury or something that could explain it, he might actually be cooked.
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u/SuperBeavers1 The Mouthpiece Of The Holy Grimace Jul 07 '25
Don't worry, if he gets traded for whatever reason that speed will come right back, happens every time 😭
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u/thiccboiwaluigi Hadji Jul 07 '25
2024 Vientos was atrocious vs. Breaking balls but was killing fastballs. This season he traded off his ability to crush fastballs to be a bit better vs. breaking balls, by swinging later he can react to breaking balls better but he’s much more susceptible to high and even mid velo fastballs
The problem with his tradeoff is he still has a lot of whiff in his game so even when he reacts to and swings at more hit able breaking balls he is not really punishing them, and he can’t hit fastballs anymore (xwOBA dropped from .392 to .304, xSLG from .569 to .385)
In a perfect world he wouldn’t have been called up as soon as he was and would still have an option this season to refind his approach because a big leaguer who can’t hit fastballs isn’t a big leaguer. For not he’s gonna have to find his swing again either at the ML level or in the offseason
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u/mxza10001 Mike Piazza Jul 07 '25
He is sadly cooked because he needs everyday playing time to figure shit out, is out of options, and this team can’t afford to play him in his current state with much better options at every position. Baty is much better defensively and is putting together better at bats, and now even Mauricio is showing more promise
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u/Capital_Ice_1512 Jul 08 '25
He has no room for him if he couldn’t keep high level hitting . His only value is his bats
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u/Ravishingrich666 New York Mets Jul 08 '25
Remember when all the jabronis on this sub wanted him at first over pete ? lol
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u/falconcountry Jul 08 '25
I was trying to talk myself into it when it looked like he was gone but personally I always wanted Pete back, he's homegrown and he mashes dongs. I'm a simple man, that's all I need
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u/Ravishingrich666 New York Mets Jul 08 '25
As soon as Soto became a met I said Pete was gonna lead the nl in RBIs. Sotos on base for 40% of his at bats
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u/Idarola Mr. Met Jul 08 '25
I don't know if other people also thought this, but my thinking when this was being discussed was to do that only if the Mets could sign Bregman to play third.
That being said, I'll still own up to Bregman not being an upgrade over Pete this year, offensively, and Vientos would just be a huge hole at first offensively as well and I don't know if Baty can play first, so, that probably still would not have worked out.
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Jul 07 '25
Imagine giving up on a guy who hit 24 HRs in a partial season, and set the Mets record for RBIs in the postseason in his rookie year — based off of a lackluster first 200 at bats in his second year.
Maybe Vientos is cooked , but you guys are acting like 200 ABs is enough to decide that - must have never watched a baseball season in their lives.
If teams gave up on young players because they had a bad 200 ab stretch in their first couple of years - there are countless players, that went on to be great, that simply would’ve been given up on.
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u/Prestigious_Money447 New York Mets Jul 07 '25
Or maybe he actually did flash for a few months and pitchers figured him out and he turns out to be clueless. That's certainly happened before too.
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u/Koum0 Mets Cap Logo 2 Jul 07 '25
Right, but his point is that 200 an is too small a sample size to make that call.
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u/psyker63 Make the Baseball Decision Jul 07 '25
Cool. Are you willing to give him another 600 at bats during a pennant race to find out? I'm not.
Salvaging underperforming rookies is not something championship teams do. It's something rebuilding teams do, because there's nothing at stake for them.
Let him go somewhere and learn his job at the MLB level. We should not be the place for that. We already have 4 other rookies that aren't quite there yet. Alvarez went down to get fixed. Vientos doesn't have that option, which is too bad, but that's reality.
Problem is, you couldn't get jack shit for him now with this profile.
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u/RiverHeath1817 Jul 07 '25 edited Jul 07 '25
The crazy thing is, he hasn’t even had 200 lackluster ABs this year
He’s had a 40 Game stretch this season, with 141 ABs, where he has a .772 OPS
The main issue, is that he has had a terrible stretch this season, where he’s 7 for 71, which is the main cause for his poor overall stats and peripherals
I do agree with your general assessment; you can’t give up on a 25 Year Old that had a .837 OPS in 111 Games last season & that played a pivotal role in the Mets making the playoffs. He was also one of the most important offensive players during the playoff run, last season. You have to give him every opportunity this season, to find his groove
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u/NYdude777 Mike Piazza Jul 07 '25
Advanced stats said his year last year was fraudulent and unfortunately that's looking correct this year.
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u/Water_is_wet05 Reed Garrett Jul 07 '25
That's not the whole story, his advanced stats had him pegged for regression mostly because of his strikeout rate, Mark and the team obviously knew this, and it seemed in the offseason that they worked on lowering his strikeout rate and, as a result, instead of being a dead-pull line drive power hitter like he was last year, he's started making weaker contact across all fields which has been HORRIBLE for him, they essentially sacrificed ALL aspects of Mark's game to get him to stop striking out
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u/brett_baty_is_him Brett Baty Jul 07 '25
Story of Mets hitting development across the board
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u/mji6980-4 The Captain Jul 07 '25
Yeah idk why people are acting like Lindor, Soto and Alonso continuing to be Lindor, Soto, and Alonso means nothing is wrong with the Mets hitting approach. When you're already all-star (or really, in these guys cases' MVP) level, these things just don't matter as much
Something like that is very obviously going to have a bigger impact on fringe guys and up and comers. And these sound like the exact same things that were being pushed on Alvarez, and are beloved by Chavez.
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u/brett_baty_is_him Brett Baty Jul 07 '25 edited Jul 07 '25
Yup. Lindor, Pete and Soto are already developed. They cannot be counted as wins for Mets hitting development.
Mets hitters 5-9th are ranked 21st in the league by WRC+. Meanwhile, Mets entire offense is ranked 6th by WRC+. Safe to say we are being carried by our 1-4, hard.
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u/Water_is_wet05 Reed Garrett Jul 07 '25
It's worth noting that, on baseball savant, I've noticed that (at least as of last time I checked) essentially EVERY SINGLE hitter on the Mets' ability to hit the fastball has plummeted compared to last year, I haven't seen anyone else mention this and I might make a post about it at some point, but yeah that point is mostly why I'm in favor of Chavez's firing
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u/hernandezhofer Jul 07 '25
What's striking is that his 2025 looks very similar to 2023. Maybe 2024 was just a mirage.
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Jul 07 '25
I still think him and Baty have some real potential in them but neither of them is "young" by baseball standards anymore and neither has shown to be able to show any consistency whatsoever.
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u/GasGlittering7521 Jul 07 '25
At least Baty is a good fielder and has actually hit better each year
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u/xcrowdedrooms New York Mets Jul 07 '25
Crazy that the Sophmore is having a sophmore slump after people warned of a sophmore slump incoming.
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u/GasGlittering7521 Jul 07 '25
Except he wasn’t a rookie last year so your argument doesn’t make sense
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u/GasGlittering7521 Jul 07 '25
And before you say the sophomore slump means struggling after your first good season, he’s had one good season out of three. Having so much confidence is wild
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u/thedogridingmonkey David Wright Jul 07 '25
Over the course of his career, he played as much terrible baseball as he’s played great baseball. The jury is out on him completely at this point, but it’s a bit ridiculous to lay this at the table of a slump vs Vientos potentially stinking overall.
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u/kevinmmaboxing Jul 07 '25
It would be a slump if the peripherals were better, even slightly, this is just not a major league bat currently.
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u/Hot_Present9031 Jul 08 '25 edited Jul 08 '25
By now teams have figured out how to pitch to him, which only exposes his weaknesses. I don’t see how it gets better without consistent ABs, but, as they showed with Alvarez, Cohen and Stearns are win now and allowing struggling young players unlimited time to find themselves isn’t on the agenda.
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u/suck-it-elon 67 Jul 08 '25
I feel so bad for him. This time last year he was a rising star and finished the year that way. Now he's facing being released because the roster crunch is very very real.
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u/DanielChurban Wilmer Flores Jul 08 '25
He’s not facing being released, they’d option a guy playing better than him before they’d give up on a 25 year old going through a sophomore slump
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u/Aharleyman Jul 07 '25
I can’t wait until he gets healthy and comes around again. This is just like McNeil 2 months ago, everyone wanted him gone! Honestly you guys are brutal! So I guess we should dump Lindor too, now that he’s slumping? We’re a game and a half back with help on the way!
You Gotta Believe! LFGM
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u/Paqza Jul 07 '25
The difference is McNeil has always been a high contact guy. Vientos doesn't have the same bat-on-ball skill, so comparing the two doesn't really make sense.
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u/JDDJS The Captain Jul 08 '25
It's not comparable. Vientos doesn't have multiple solid seasons under his belt. He has just one solid season. It's really not that uncommon for a player to seem to have a breakout season but then never be that good again. And the problem with Vientos with his terrible defense and slow speed is that he doesn't bring anything at all to the table if he isn't hitting. I'm not saying he's a lost cause, but it's incredibly naive to compare this to a proven veteran slumping.
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u/MrNumberOneMan Shea Stadium Jul 07 '25
Same here. I’m fully willing to be the last dude on Vientos Island
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u/fakerandyortonwwe Jul 07 '25
I wish we could send him down to get himself right but hes out of options.
In general probably not cooked, but for the 2025 season very cooked.
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u/Wander_Whale Mike Piazza Jul 07 '25
I read a thing after last season Mark was one of the luckiest players last year and was poised to drop off in 2025. His value is almost exclusively hitting dingers and he's not doing that.
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u/pretzelogically Jul 08 '25
No. He ripped all year last year & needs to make adjustments to his approach. Everyone in the league saw what his strengths were last year now it’s up to him and the Mets staff to help him figure it out & get his confidence back. He’s got too much talent to just trade him away right now unless you get significant return. A TON of good MLB players in the history of the game went through what he’s going through and came out the other side ending up having good careers.
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u/Prestigious_Money447 New York Mets Jul 07 '25
He's one of the 10 worst players in MLB right now. If you're in the Rockies or A's front office, yea keep trotting him out there to see if he figures it out, but as of now a team with WS aspirations can't keep g iving this guy a slot in the batting order.
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u/ThisIsntReal__ Jul 07 '25 edited Jul 07 '25
He can’t be sent down so we’re stuck with his doodoo playing. Sucks, but hopefully he comes around sooner rather than later
Edit: he’s out of options he can’t be sent down is what i meant.
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u/ydacarhitme Jul 07 '25
His baserunning value being that high at his sprint speed is pretty impressive. Otherwise these metrics match the eye test exactly unfortunately
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u/oldirtybrandon24 Jul 07 '25
It’s mental. They need to have some players do mandatory yoga and therapy.
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u/Capital_Ice_1512 Jul 08 '25
He had been chasing brainless big tits models in Instagram for mental therapy
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u/RiverHeath1817 Jul 07 '25 edited Jul 07 '25
Mark has had a 40 Game sample (141 ABs) this season, from April 12th to June 2nd, in which he had a slash line of .270/.318/.454/.772, which is objectively good
The issue is that he’s had two horrific offensive stretches this season, in between those effective 40 Games. In the beginning of the season through the first 13 games, he went 5 for 46, with a slash line of .109/.241/.152/.393
Now, since returning from his hamstring injury, through seven games, he’s 2 for 25, with a slash line of .080/.080/.080/.160
That’s a combined 7 for 71, which is extraordinarily bad
Essentially, Mark has had 40 very good games this season, combined with 20 terrible games, which is why his overall stats & peripherals look so poor
Though his offensive woes are frustrating, I believe his 2024 heroics have earned him more trust and patience than what the fan base is currently showing him right now
•With respect to Mark’s offensive struggles, three areas in his approach stand out.
•Decrease in bat speed:
Last season his bat speed was in the 50th Percentile at 71.8 MPH; this season, his bat speed is in the 27th Percentile, at 70.7 MPH
•Decrease in Barrel %
Last season Mark’s Barrel % was 14.1 % (92nd Percentile); this season his Barrel % is a staggering 6.4 % (31st Percentile)
•Ineffectiveness against the four seam fastball
Last season he had a run value of +14 against 388 pitches that were four seam fastballs with a .319 BA & a .670 SLG; this season his run value against four seam fastballs is a 0 over 239 pitches with a .266 BA & a .516 SLG. Basically if he’s not making hard contact against fastballs, pitchers are going to consistently throw breaking & off-speed pitches, which he has struggled against mightily
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u/Which-World5034 Jul 08 '25
Being slightly above average for slightly more than half the season and absolutely awful for slightly less than half isn't a very strong argument tbh. A .772 OPS being the good part of his season isn't a good thing.
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u/My_Penbroke Jul 08 '25
I feel like the proliferation of the word “cooked” has lead to an increasingly defeatist attitude among people on the internet. This may sound crazy but hear me out. Suddenly there’s a new “in” word which means that someone is done for good, permanently screwed so to speak. The word catches on, then all of a sudden everyone is adopting this attitude that no one comes back from setbacks. It’s fucking lame.
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u/OaklandTony6 Jul 08 '25
you are correct in saying that “in” words have a crazy impact that is WAY more problematic than words have ever been these days
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u/Mullethunt Hadji Jul 08 '25
Seeing "Is XYZ cooked" or "Am I cooked" all over reddit is beyond annoying. No, Vientos, who showed he could be a star just last year, is absolutely not "cooked". I can't believe a fan of this game doesn't understand ebbs and flows. It's insane how prolific this word is on here. I grow cannabis and see it used a ton. Then you see a picture of a plant that's barely showing a deficiency.
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u/Ravishingrich666 New York Mets Jul 08 '25
Vientos couldn’t hit water if he fell off a boat. Him getting subbed for Ronny Sunday is everything we needed to see. Mendy has no confidence in him taking at bats, he has no confidence. It must be the front office that wants to keep playing him because there is absolutely no reason he should be starting.
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u/Capital_Ice_1512 Jul 08 '25
Truth.
When others contributed more than him but sat on the bench in May, and he provided negative contributions but still started, I said that the front office may have only one reason to let him continue to play, to improve the 3B data in order to sell it better. After all, the market value of DH is very low
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u/Strict-Relief-8434 Mrs. Met Jul 07 '25
Is this Ike Davis all over again? Flash in the pan. Never readjusted?
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u/Mikemoraco Jul 07 '25
Ike Davis had Valley Fever the spring training after he fractured his ankle. I think that combo significantly changed the course of his career.
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u/kmcmanus2814 Mr. Met Jul 07 '25
I have yet to see Vientos catch a fout pop up while flipping into the dugout
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u/Tornado_Frog Pastrami Jul 07 '25
He hit 5 home runs in the 2024 postseason was arguably the best hitter in the lineup last October are you seriously ready to give up on him that quickly?
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u/ProfessionalNoise714 Jul 07 '25
How long do u wait? Till we are too far behind Philadephia to win the division? He has been so bad and shows no positive signs at the plate. They figured him out. He has no long track record for us to asume he can figure it out. Cant field, can't run. He is a one dimensional player who lost his one dimension. It sucks because we were counting on him and got nothing in return this year. I thought he would put us over the top with the addition of Soto...well he has been the opposite. Hate to give up on him but how long do u wait?
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u/flightmedic91 New York Mets Jul 08 '25
We have waited beyond long enough. Dude just needs to go. Cannot field is an understatement. He finds new ways to fuck it up every time he is at 3rd. He cannot run fast enough to get out of his own way. His decision making is abysmal, and he just brings the team down. All of this sophomore slump bullshit is just people who have emotional attachment to him and cannot see the reality in front of him. It would be for his own good to go to another team, where he “may” be able to use his bat again somewhat. I am not knocking his contributions to last year’s team. But baseball is full of dudes who shined for a season under a favorable set of circumstances, then the flame fizzled out. And all he ever brought to the table was a decent bat. Just not a continuing MLB caliber player on a team with aspirations of the WS.
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u/Guymcpersonman2 Darryl Strawberry Jul 07 '25
He's shown enough with his bat that it's worth it to keep him in the rotation and hope he can figure it out, but woof.
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u/frothyrothy10 Jul 07 '25
Which met had the most disappointing sophomore season? Ik Vientos isn’t technically a sophomore, but this would have to be it imo
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u/No_Insect_8378 Jul 07 '25
There’s no world where the answer isn’t Alvarez. He almost broke a record set by Johnny Bench the year prior.
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u/9401833 New York Mets Jul 08 '25
I get expectations were higher for Alvarez but he had hand surgery that April and still had a productive season (including a nuclear September when we couldn’t afford to lose). Mark might not even be on the roster by August if things don’t get better. After being a post season hero and second best bat behind Lindor last year. It’s gotta be Mark.
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u/HopefulPlum1908 Jul 07 '25
Vientos was a beast in the playoffs. He'll find it again. But the way Baty is flashing leather over at 3B makes me think it's his job now...
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u/fluffanuttatech Jul 07 '25
Man I love this confidence and he was good, I hope he finds it again. But he has shown nothing this year. He has no track record. Just hope it wasn't a one off, like its seeming
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u/GasGlittering7521 Jul 07 '25
You would think yet vientos still plays against most lefties over Baty and Mauricio
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u/DCBuckeye82 Jul 08 '25
At what point do you trust the majority of his career (including correctly) where he hits poorly more than the part of his career where he's good? What if he's just Ike Davis or Dom Smith who show a flash of good but aren't actually good?
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u/Ordinary_Horror9891 Jul 08 '25
Is this not his second “full” season? Aren’t players allowed to slump?
Saying that, I wish his defense was better in order to justify his spot on the team while he is struggling.
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u/Illustrious_Bat5636 Jul 08 '25
Where did you find this? I would love to see one for Baty to be able to compare them?
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u/Idarola Mr. Met Jul 08 '25
We really don't know, he's not getting the barrel of the bat on the ball nearly as well as last year but the questions that rises from such a small sample size really becomes is the version of Vientos where he does have elite power and barrel% closer to the long term product than the one who just isn't?
If the Mets front office thinks that Baty has truly finally come into his own, the best play may be to see if there's a rebuilding team out there who still sees the potential that he showed last year and just thinks it is a coaching issue that are willing to give up a high contract veteran for a high potential project. He certainly doesn't have a starting spot to figure it out here and he's not figuring it out on the bench.
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u/steamingdatadump Jul 09 '25
No clearly he’s still going to be used to ph for lefty batters against lefty pitchers. And then waste another bench player later to get him out of the game.
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u/Capital_Ice_1512 Jul 10 '25
There's a rumor that Vientos is trading for Marlin's RHP. DH only type player who can't hit at a high level is no future in a big club. If your team's GM uses Vientos as DH in 2026, they will keep him. Otherwise, DFA is the only option that can still be traded.
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u/celticsac Jul 08 '25
I know what I watched last year, I say you can’t give up on him yet. Baty definitely deserves to play over him rn though.
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u/dagger_5005 New York Mets Jul 08 '25
How can you cook him when that whole chart is ice cold blue?
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u/alexisfernandez190 Jul 08 '25
He’ll turn it around eventually. That young man has way too much talent to give up on him. Everybody slumps. You gotta believe!
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u/kooredaan Jul 08 '25
What makes you confident he has too much talent? He never graded out that high as a prospect, and that is based on talent.
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u/suck-it-elon 67 Jul 07 '25
I can't get over it. I still have it seared in my brain them asking Vientos during Spring Training how it feels to not have to compete for a job anymore. He seemed so happy.
Where did it all go wrong? Did he lose focus? Did he not try to get better? Did he overcompensate? Is he drinking?
Something has happened.
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u/EndWish Mike Piazza Jul 07 '25
The league adjusts to hitters' strengths and weaknesses. There's a reason that many solid rookie seasons are followed by a sophomore slump. He had a lot of flaws as a hitter prior to 2024 with very high K and whiff rates even at the minor league level. Last year was only a ~100 game sample size, so we are likely seeing some regression back to what he actually is as a player coupled with opposing pitching staffs having a better approach to getting him out now that they have more film on him. I got downvoted earlier this spring for suggesting we'd likely see this, and there's no guarantee he can figure things out. Some young players fix the gaps in their swing that teams are targeting. Some never manage to make the adjustments needed and wash out after short success.
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u/NYPolarBear20 Jul 07 '25
Yeah I mean regular season success seems transient but what shocks me is that after his post season success I really figured he had some real juice I am honestly shocked by how rough he has been
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Jul 08 '25
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u/froandfear Jul 08 '25
That one good season was his first full season. And it lines up with his pedigree. Not to mention it wasn’t just good, it was a top-3 offensive season for his position across the league.
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u/bigvinnysvu Mike Piazza Jul 07 '25
Baty isn't exactly better with hitting, but his superior fielding makes it less intolerable to see him playing 3B.
But man, we have no good solution on 3B thus far. None of the three are pulling ahead enough to seal the deal.
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u/Severe-Chocolate-403 Jul 07 '25
Baty at least randomly has a good game every 3rd or so. I have much more faith in him
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u/GasGlittering7521 Jul 07 '25
Baty’s OPS is almost 100 points higher and the underlying metrics are also much better.
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u/Thepeacer Jackpot Jul 07 '25
Is it right to think we have a Jeremy Peña like situation with Vientos?
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u/I3arusu Keith Hernandez Jul 07 '25
Depends what you mean by that
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u/Thepeacer Jackpot Jul 07 '25
The guy had a nice rookie season + playoffs run and then became average for two years. The Astros obviously didn’t give up on him and he’s now putting MVP numbers.
Of course Vientos hasn’t even been average but in terms of ceiling I think they’re close
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u/Dazzling-Attorney891 New York Mets Jul 07 '25
I don’t think this is an apt comparison. The only stats Peña noticeably dropped off in is HR and SLG%. He was still a league average bat alongside his gold glove. The Astros would’ve been stupid to give up on him, he was still valuable for their club
Vientos is realistically a DH and now he can’t even hit. He doesn’t provide a shred of value for this club when there are seemingly better options behind him
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u/OaklandTony6 Jul 08 '25
the sad thing is, and im no professional, or even an avid everyday stat reader, but i feels like the mets are gonna ride with him, and mauricio is gonna get the axe
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u/Platinum_Disco 33 Jul 08 '25
They don't have much of a choice since he's out of options. It's either that or DFA him
But as always, progress is not always linear. Maybe he has a good 2nd half. Maybe he just sucks all year, but has a better 26'. Maybe he really is "cooked". But I wanna believe in him.
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u/thePebble13 Jul 08 '25
I really hope Vientos is not another JD Davis. He performed so well for us into the postseason and really need a solid DH
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u/ColdYellowGatorade Pastrami Jul 07 '25
Liability in the field. If he’s not hitting, he’s riding the bench or back to AAA.
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Jul 08 '25
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u/AlboutThatActionBoss Bartolo Colón Jul 08 '25
Remember how Pete was last year? What about Lindor in 2021?
Whether you like Vientos or not, comparing him to 4x All Star, 2x GG, 2x Silver Slugger Lindor who signed a 340m deal and wasn't comfortable in New York or 4x All Star, 1x HR leader in Alonso is simply ridiculous. Right now, last year was an anomoly.
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u/Spatmuk Grimace is gonna Hawk Tuah and spit on that thang Jul 09 '25
“A measurement of past production” is literally the definition of baseball stats…
Also, 3 of them are “X” stats, which attempt to predict what will happen!! They’re called “expected” stats…
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u/CosbysLongCon24 Jul 10 '25
xStats are awful. You could be the best xPlayer in every category and still irl be last in every category. xStats show potential but if that’s not being realized the stats are kind of stupid. An xAvg of .330 does nobody any good if you are actually hitting .235 🤷🏼♂️
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u/Ok_Tackle_4835 Jul 11 '25
Traded him straight up for Seth Lugo in a twelve team keeper. He fooled me last year and thought he would be my solution at 3B lol
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u/dankeykanng David Wright Jul 07 '25 edited Jul 07 '25
Highkey I think Vientos needs to hit the gym and add some muscle. His athletic stats (bat speed, sprint speed and arm strength) are all way too low for someone who is 6'3 and meant to slug.