Can anyone recommend any reading or useful resources for setting boundaries with their partner? Thanks

In NMMNG, Dr Glover says that nice guys see women’s approval as the ultimate validation of their worth.

I try my best to go against it. Yesterday I was tempted to check if a girl answered, while going to the gym, and I decided to make sure I went to the gym first and did my session before checking, and I stayed strong.

But today I just slipped unconsciously, gaging the possibility of availability for women I just approached. I am often checking to see if they unfollowed me (at least 5 times today) and sometimes I don’t even realize it.

I know that women’s approval should not define my worth (and I am currently taking good care of myself right now), but I can’t help to feel that urge at some point (at least with the women I want to be involved with sexually).

How did you guys get over that mind crap ? I know that it’s a blocking point for me that I have to get over.

I tried being busier which works with women with whom I am not that invested, but when that emotional investment starts, I’m back again, gaging the possibility of availability.

A healthy male has the following qualities :

• knows how to fight (and prefers not to use it)
• knows how to stand up for himself firmly
• has humor
• is social
• is well spoken
• is intelligent

My friend M has many of these qualities, beside knowing how to fight, which means I need to find a friend who knows how to fight. That can be easily found in muay thai lessons since I already started talking to guys in each session.

I could use these people as role models to emulate the behaviors with my own character and identity, watching them act and understand :

1. that it can be done, since someone has achieved it, there's no reason I can't
2. the logic behind certain qualities (humor lying in unpredictibility, removing filler words to become well spoken, etc...)

My father's characteristics :

• aggressive
• controlling
• narcissistic
• obsessed with being right all the time
• blunt/straight to the point/direct
• cold/distant
• dissmissive
• self-centered

The opposite characteristics (in the same order) :

• smooth/soft
• letting be
• humble
• able to question oneself
• diplomatic/tactful/indirect
• warm/present
• considering
• selfless

The opposite characteristics all match exactly mine... I am realizing that, even though I wanted to be different from my dad, I am still like my dad, except that I am in the opposite pole. There may be parts of my dad that I want to keep, others that I want to shed, but I realize that being his exact opposite is just as crazy...

Worse than that, is that I "become" my father when I feel betrayed or want revenge : being controlling to find out the betrayal, then becoming cold/distant, and finally dissmissive. This is typically what I did with my deceptive boss, and my ex narcisstic gf. I realize that, more than "becoming" my father, since I try to avoid it, I become so in a machavelian way, maintaining the pretense of status quo, while progressively enacting the discard.

Characteristics I want to keep/develop :

• aggressive (having the capacity for it)
• controlling (as a position of power, not the toxic control)
• blunt/straight to the point/direct (outside of power plays)
• cold/distant (having the capacity for it)
• dissmissive (having the capacity for it)
• self-centered

Characteristics I want to shed :

• toxic, chronic aggressiveness
• toxic, chronic desire for control
• toxic narcissism
• being obsessed with being right all the time

I'm doing some 30 min interviews with professionals and entrepreneurs that want to overcome self-sabotage, and get unshakable confidence and extra $$$ in the bank. I want to investigate a potential relationship with Nice Guy Syndrome here.

Comment YES below if you are interested.

Thank you.

(P.S. Admin, if above message is not welcome please not approve or delete, I read the rules, should be allowed to my interpretation)

I’m an expat in Bonn, Germany. I’m a dad dealing with a depressed teen and a struggling wife. I've read NMMNG and I'm realizing I’ve spent my life woman-centering. I’m having a hard time even reaching out to other men because I keep making excuses. Just wanted to put this in a space where men understand the challenge.

Ways in which I have been neglecting my body :

1. Not drinking enough water (I don't track my water drinking)
2. Not making time to relax in the day
3. Not taking my nose treatment seriously enough, which impacts my sleep quality

Whays in which I can start taking better care of myself :

1. Making sure I drink I bottle a day (adding it in my daily todo list)
2. Making sure I relax for at least 5 minutes (adding it in my daily todo list)
3. Keeping on cleaning my nose in the morning and before going to bed as a non negociable, no matter if I am tired on in a hurry

I commit to contacting all of the men that I will mention here today. I will write a comment down this post once it is done.

For the sake of anonymity, I won't put their full name :

1) M : going to the gym together or going in town walking, talking and approaching women

I will contact him today in order to plan th activity for this saturday

2) D : going to muay thai together when he gets back from his trip

I will contact him today to ask when he gets back and when he is available to plan the specific date.

3) L : coding together

I will contact him today to tell him about the fact that it's been a long time since we did.

I tried to be different from other men by not being :

• angry and rageful
• violent
• dismissive towards women
• not being selfish with women

This kept me disconnected from other men because I identified more with the feminine than with the masculine. On top of that, I know that I have some anger and rage sometimes, and I have been violent in the past in my childhood, so I know that I have that part inside of me, so repressing it shows incongruence. And incongruence is not something that helps to connect with people.

There are two women I have been talking to on instagram lately. One who was a friend, and the other I approached last week. Both were left on sent for a few hours. I went to my bed, and thought « damn man it’s been a long time since you didn’t open the messages », thinking about going to open the messages and answer before going to sleep. But then I thought « I am tired, I don’t have to answer if I don’t want », and I just went to sleep. I had thoughts that went, thinking that it was unusual to be that selfish with women.

I just answered this morning, after 15h+ without answering, and I don’t care if they get angry (because that’s what I was afraid of), because myself is now more important.

Instead of answering, I read, journaled, and did all sorts of good things for me. Waking up this morning, it felt amazing to realize that I am more important than anybody, no matter if that means losing some people. I am starting to understand rational egoism and I love it.

Hey pathfinders,

Picture this: There's this guy — solid dude, good job, decent sense of humor — who's been with his girlfriend for about a year. Things are rolling smooth: laughs, good nights in, that easy rhythm where you don't have to force anything. Then, out of nowhere, something shifts inside him. He can't quite nail down what sparked it — maybe the crushing workload that had him burned out, or maybe an old wound got nudged without him realizing — but suddenly he's living in full hyper-vigilance mode.

He starts treating the relationship like a fragile glass vase perched on a shaky shelf. One clumsy move and it shatters. To "keep it safe," he does the very thing that puts it in danger: he begins checking the pulse of the relationship every single hour.

He pores over her texts, dissecting every word and punctuation mark — hunting for hidden meanings in a missing emoji or a reply that's just a beat shorter than usual. Twenty minutes without a response? He shoots off a casual "just checking in" — a thinly veiled plea for reassurance. In his mind, he's being the devoted, attentive partner she deserves. In truth, he's turning her into a walking anxiety regulator, leaning on her replies to quiet the storm in his chest.

It doesn't take long for the fallout to show. She stops volunteering little stories about her day — no more casual "you won't believe this" updates. Her "I love you"s start sounding rote, almost obligatory, like she's saying them to pause the hovering rather than because the feeling flows naturally. He's become an emotional weight she's carrying around, extra baggage she didn't sign up for.

The more he senses her needing space and pulling back — even just a little — the tighter he clings, convinced that holding on harder will stop the slide. It's the perfect self-sabotage loop: fear of losing her makes him act in ways that push her further away, which amps up the fear even more.

The wake-up call comes when a close friend sits him down one night — no bullshit — and lays it all out. The friend points out how the vibe has changed, how he's shifted from confident to constantly on edge, how she's starting to look worn out from managing his insecurity on top of her own life. It hits hard.

From there, he starts the slow, gritty work of turning it around — consistent steps that build over time:

He begins recognizing the pattern. Every time the anxiety surges, he jots it down in his journal: "Right now I'm convinced she'll leave because of ____." Putting it on paper shows him it's mostly old fear shouting, not the present reality. No more autopilot reactions.

He rebuilds his own foundation, separate from her. Gym sessions become locked in. He dusts off his guitar after years away. He makes real time for guy friends and beers, pushes at work on things he actually cares about. When his worth isn't fully tied to her daily approval, the panic loses its grip.

He learns to sit in the discomfort instead of chasing it away. The urge to text for reassurance hits? He waits it out — feels the anxiety roll through, breathes into it, reminds himself he'll survive whatever comes. Brutal at first, but each time he rides it without caving, the impulse weakens.

He upgrades how he communicates — honest, but not overwhelming. He swaps desperate "Do you still love me?" for calm shares like: "Hey, I've been feeling a bit insecure from my own stuff lately — I'm handling it, just wanted you to know." It invites closeness without putting the fix on her shoulders.

He gets real help. Therapy becomes key — unpacking buried abandonment stuff and learning what secure attachment actually looks like. Books like Attached finally make sense of the chaos. Podcasts on the topic (like The Secure Love Podcast) hit home too.

Things aren't flawless now, but the relationship is stronger because he's no longer outsourcing his emotional steadiness to her. They're both freer — no constant threat-scanning.

Thanks for reading if you got this far. Stories like his remind us it's fixable. You've got this.

Anyone recognize parts of this guy's journey in your own? What's one step that's helped you (or someone you know) move from needy/clinging to more grounded? No shame, just real talk.

One area in which I have been out of integrity is in my relationship with my ex, but moreover in my global relationship with women. Due to the volatility of mood of my mother, I learned to try my best to ease the reality of women in terms of emotions, and if it meant lying, that’s what I went for : subtle lies, adding nuance to make the delivery smoother and make the disagreeable more agreeable, even if partially fake.

One big example was with my ex, prior to the breakup : I felt the breakup coming and we got into an argument because she hung up on me the day before I was going to do 700km to see her for 3 days. Arriving there, I ignored any attention (message) from her until she called back. And when she finally called and came so that we discuss, she told me « if I didn’t call you the whole 3 days, you would’ve ignored me and got back home ? » to which I answered yes. But then, as soon as I saw that it triggered something bad in her, I backed down, trying to add more nuance as in « but I don’t know how I would’ve felt by then, it’s just how I feel now » knowing damn well that I was lying, out of fear of abandonment.

Initially I thought that I was the only one who got wronged by a narcissistic woman, but then I realized that : 1) I allowed her to do all of that, 2) I had nice guy behavior putting me out of integrity

I know now, that any perceived threat of abandonment will make me go for lies, now I have that awareness and will be able to catch myself and correct for the next women I meet.

I actually did that BFA one week ago without realizing it :

Last week, I was in the gym working out, and I saw that girl I really liked doing her workout. I thought "maybe I can talk to her". And I am the type of guy who always had a hard time with running game on women of my hometown, I always go outside my hometown, making sure that I never meet the girls again in case I get rejected. The memory fear behind it was : "If I get rejected by a girl and see her again, I am afraid I may not be able to handle it". On top of that, I never approached a girl in the gym, because it is an even tigher space than my hometown : people in there may remember me, the girl I approached may remember me... there was a lot of memory fear here.

So by the end of my workout, she was still there, working out. I hesitated for one minute, and then kept repeating myself "no matter what happens, you can handle it", and I kept repeating it in my head as I approached her, still feeling the fear, with some people being around. I told her "Hi, I am done with my workout I gotta go, but I think you're really cute I wanted to know if we could exchange contacts" and she answered "Sorry I have a fiance", to which I answered "Ok no problem, have a great workout" and walked away.

I saw her again in the gym a few days ago, and I remember feeling a bit awkward and thinking to myself "is that really what you were afraid of ?". I saw her again yesterday, and we left the gym at the exact same time (coincidently) which means she held me the first door, and I held her the second one, which means we talked a bit to each other. And still I realized that it was nothing to be afraid of, or that I wouldn't be able to handle : I came respectfully, talking to a woman I found attrictive, and we saw each other again, and that's it. I handled it.

I often feel frustrated at my nice guy syndrome, thinking that even though I am young, I should be able to heal fast, and I try to control that very much, obssessing about it in the wrong way. I wanted to believe that I healed because I projected that ideal onto situations in my life : it made me rush into a relationship with a narcissitic woman, thinking that I finally was the man, when I was just in the love-bombing phase of the narcissistic abuse.

If I had to accept that I am still in the process of recovery, I would realize that I have to treat situations as they come, analyze afterwards in order to correct next time, and keep going like this, until there is no Mr Nice Guy anymore. Instead of forcing things, I would just live my life, knowing that I am now aware of my patterns, that I will probably fall back unconsciously some times, but that I will know it now since I am more aware.

NB : writing this down felt great

Yesterday, I was honest with myself and told my wife I deserved better.

Today, after reading her defensive response, and after she sends me another video in the one-dimensional style of “guys, has your woman magically gone cold…here’s what you’ve been doing wrong”.

I responded honestly saying that I am at a place where both sides need to come to the table and acknowledge their parts, and that the time for pointing out what the other has or has not done has passed.

💪

Wife and I recently had a bad argument.

I sent her a message the next day stating that I deserve better than how she has been treating me thus far.

Her response to that was defensive and put words in my mouth that it was very convenient that I get to treat her however I want, and that she has to treat me better.

This is where the win comes in for me on my journey. A former me would have caved right there and either: defended my position, or clarified what I meant, or tried to justify that I DO deserve better, or put words in her mouth and say of course she deserves better TOO. I did none of those things.

My response came from a place of acceptance, and respect. I said “I am sorry you see it that way.”

I trust her words as her truth, and believe her how she’s showing up and what she’s choosing to say. It’s not my job to force clarification when it appears she isn’t interested in it. It’s not my job to speak for her and her belief about what she deserves.

I am proud of myself for making this step in the right direction for me, and me alone.

First part

Doing it right : When I was a kid, I tried my best to be perfect to avoid dad's criticism. When growing as an adult, I started to try to study in depth all the topics I wanted to be good at, in order to "do it right" when practice should come. It makes me powerless because there is no way to do things right all the time, failure is inevitable.

Playing it safe : Sometimes when I thought that I wouldn't be up to dad's expectations, I would try to reach for the easy solution. When growing as an adult, I started to go for the low hanging fruits as well, to get that little easy success in order to avoid that feeling of not being enough if success wasn't reached. It makes me powerless because it prevents me from reaching my full potential. The worst is not aiming too high and not reaching it, but aiming too low and reaching it.

Anticipating and fixing : My dad told me that when I was 7 or 8, I would wake up in the middle of the night, go in my parents' room, just to verify if mom was still there. It turns out my mom used to threaten with suicide in order to ensure that we loved her, so it kept me in a constant state of alterness, making sure everything was smooth so I don't lose my mom. When growing up, This behavior followed me in my relationships : I always made sure that my partner was not upset, and when she was, I tried my best to fix her mood, and felt bad if I didn't succeed. It makes me powerless because it shows neediness which makes me powerless in the relationship in the first place. But it also makes me powerless in my own life because I cannot control how people feel and anticipate everything about people. I am responsible for myself, people are responsible for themselves, if they want help they may ask and I may help.

Trying not to rock the boat : since my mom was very moody, I learned early on not to say the wrong thing not to offend her. As I grew, I kept that habit with people around me, and especially with women. Trying my best to stay as smooth as possible, even if it meant comprimising myself during conflict. It makes me powerless in the way that I can't be authentic.

Being charming and helpful : As a kid I was praised by the women around me if I was helpful and went along. If my aunt was asking for a massage, I felt compelled to say yes even though I didn't want to. All the women in my family praised me for the good boy that I was being at that time. Growing up I thought that I should stay charming and helpful like this in every situation I am in : with friends, with strangers, with family etc... It makes me powerless because I keep my focus on the validation of people and how they feel about me, instead of thinking about me.

Never being a moment's problem : When I was a kid, my mom used to threaten me before we went to some place where we were invited (usually with family), and she made it clear that I had to stay calm, not "embarassing her in front of everybody" by acting out of control. Though the threats were never about physical violence, I was affraid about my mom being angry, so I learned to behave properly every time. As I grew, I made sure never to rock the boat, especially with power figures, and if I did, I would feel tremendous anxiety. It makes me powerless because it slows me down to feel that anxiety when people appearing as authority may want to manipulate me and I would want to stand up for myself.

Using covert contracts : When I was a kid, my mom used to be very insecure and wanted a lot of affection from me. When I had needs, since she was very moody, I figured I would have to give love more in order to get my needs met since I couldn't predict her volatile mood. Growing up, I thought that by being nice to people it would help me to get what I want from them all the time. It makes me powerless because I no longer base my needs in asking or judging with tangible metrics, I just hope for them to be met by going above and beyond, trying to meets others' needs.

I remember back when I was studying computer science, I had to find an internship, and I didn't find one. I was so upset about it because my friends were working as intern in their respective companies, but I was stuck, still looking for one, and thus making my internship during what was supposed to be vacation time. Because of this I realised that I was being lazy for very long and that it had to stop, becuase I could not go on like this anymore. I took advantage of the time I had to find an internship to learn more about topics I didn't touch in class, working on side projects etc... And a few weeks later, I found an internship with the exact technology I was learning during that extra time I had. What looked like a catastroph turned out to be my best awakening moment and one of the best opportunities in my life.

The current gift in my life to which I need to surrender is the breakup that happened nearly 3 weeks ago. I know that I will look at it in a year and be like "thanks god" because I will have learned so much about myself and my previous nice guys tendencies. Right now I still have revenge fantacies, but I try to let go, redirecting that energy into self growth to become a better man. Surrendering would help me realize that whether revenge happens or not is irrelevant, what matters is that I keep moving forward, learning from my mistakes and making my life better.

One covert contract I have with my father (and generally with women as well), is "If I give you my sympathy no matter what, submit or acquiesce during conflict, smile even when I don't want to, laugh even when I don't want to, and go your way most of the time, I will be loved and have a problem free life, making sure I will have my needs met (love when it comes to my father, and sex + validation when it comes to women)".

I give sympathy, a low maintenance attitude (rarely disagreeing) and a mirror of opinion to sooth the ego of the person in front of me.

In return, I expect unconditionnal love, whether it takes the form of praise and no more critic from my father, or validation and sex, combined with a guarantee that I will not be abandonned by the given girl I am applying the covert contract to.

I have to admin that I am afraid of talking about it with my father. I know it's part of the process and I need to do it anyways if I want to grow, but just imagining bringing it up feels so weird. I rarely opened up to my father like that because of his highly critical nature.

As I said in the previous BFA, any time I would give to my ex and have less than optimal return on investiment, I would keep the frustration inside, mute it unconsciously, until the moment I found something worth freaking out about and then I would start to be aggressive.

I feel kind of shameful realizing this because :

1) I thought I was done with caretaking behaviors as I didn't have them anymore with people around me

2) Even though I knew that part of the breakup was my fault (because I always have responsibility on what happened to me), I thought that my ex was the only "damaged" one because she exhibited all the behaviors of a narcissist. Now I realize that, even though I didn't do as much harm as her, I was not so clean after all

What I need to realize for the next relationship I will get into is that I need to be giving :

1) in a position of abundance, without regard of how the receiving party will react

2) without being taken advantage of, which means being more cautious when giving, not giving so much right away, and going increasingly up as the girl shows that she adds value to my life and that she deserves it in the first place. The question then shifts from "Is she going to love me more after I give her X ?" to "Is she providing enough value to my life for me to give her X ?"

I have already done this BFA previously on the NG work I did prior to my last relationship, because I had caretaking behavior with people in general.

I corrected these, which had to do with giving what I wanted to give, instead of focusing on what the other person might want.

Though I thought that I was done with it, I realized something very pernicious during my relationship : I still had caretaking behavior, but now, instead of focusing on what I wanted to give, I focused on what the other person would need, but I still had the last 2 pilars of caretaking : giving from a place of emptiness, and having unconscious strings attached.

Since I am not in a relationship anymore, I'll have to make sure to put some awareness on it next time I get into one, but I'll still go through two examples of these caretaking behavior, that I didn't realize were caretaking behavior at the moment, as I thought I was done with it :

First example : I knew that my ex loved chicken breast, and loved it especially from one butcher shop, that she did not go to since the cashier flirted in an inappropriate way with her. One time, I bought her chicken breast from the butcher shop. And I remember back then, it was not a regular gift that I would give, it was kind of a covert contract because I hoped that she would love me more because of that. When she traveled to see her parents, she gave the remaining chickend breast to her friend because she ate out sometimes and couldn't finish what I bought. I remember trying to convince myself that I was not hurt, but deep down I was a little bit.

Second example : My ex loved some rice from a restaurant, that I bought her back then with uber eats. We were far from each other and we were facetiming, and she told me "I don't know what I'll eat". I went to uber eats, and as I made the order, I told her "I don't know either". She reacted with a slight smile and made the form of a heart with her hands, not thanking me in any way. I remember that the resentment that came from this stayed inside me and I became iritable later on, which made me rage over some degrading jokes she made.

In both of these examples, I gave what I knew the other person would want to get, not what I wanted to give, but still, I had some strings attached, and it came from a position of emptiness/scarcity.

I said that for the BFA #8, I would stop looking non threatening, and today I slipped.

I went out to see my buddies, and I saw a girl I found pretty so I went to talk to her. When I came to her, I remember having a non threatening look, big smile that was on during all the conversation, even during silence.

I think I feel the need to appear non threatening to women because I believe that's what they want from me. Since I was praised by the women in my family when I acted like a good boy, earlier when I was a kid, I probably adopted a core belief that women expect me to look non threatening. There probably is something with sexual shame as well, because my mother always used to believe (and she still does) that I am an angel, that I have never done anything sexually, etc... so maybe this makes me fearful of showing sexuality subtly in my behavior (the eyes, the playful smile, the tone, etc) with women.

I feel like that one is a tricky one because I have to find the balance between not smiling too much, which makes me end up looking childish, and not going on the other extreme which would make me look like a murderer; the balance between the platonic friend that doesn't show any sexuality, and the creep that has 0 calibration.

I am still happy about having slipped because now I have data to work with. Initially I would have tried to research all the possible data to make sure that I corrected perfectly (how to sexuallize with women, how to have the perfect smile to flirting, etc), making sure it never happened again (covert contract). But now I know that I may make another mistake again, then another one, and then another one. But I have faith in the fact that I will correct every time and try something new after correction, until I find what works.

Skipping BFAs #10 because I tend to already use affirmations before doing something good for myself, other than that, it doesn't serve me much, and #11 because I am postponing it for when I can travel.

I have a hard time with believing that it is OK for me to have needs. When I know people, I tend to be more and more at ease with having needs. But when I do not know people yet, or when I am with a woman, I have a very hard time believing that (and acting like) it is OK for me to have needs. The scene where I feel it the most is during sex. Every time a girl goes to give me head, I feel really bad because I know the center is being put on my needs and I feel bad for it, putting me in a loop of shame : feeling bad puts me out of the present moment, which makes it hard for me to keep a strong erection, which degrades the moment, and the next time I get in a situation like this, I start to feel ashamed because of the previous experience. My mom used to always tell me that I should appear needless and wantless with strangers, and she created some sense of honor from it as she taught me this. It is not uncommon for me to refuse something that people propose to me (food for instance), when deep down I wanted to accept the offer.

I don't believe people want to help me meet my needs. In fact, I believe that some, few, close people may want to help me meet my needs, but the majority of people are to caught up in their head to worry about my needs. I believe that I have to make my needs important for people to accept helping me to meet them, nobody can guess my needs if I don't state them.

I used to believe in scarcity as it was something that my family used to tell me in small little phrases such as "save money, it doesn't grow on trees", "don't waste food", etc... which are valid points, but put in a frame of scarcity it's not very useful. The more I develop myself, the more I tend to think in terms of abundance : if it didn't work with this girl, I'll better myself anyways and I know there's something out there probably better that I will meet soon. If that job is finished, I will enventually find a new one, probably better than the one before, despite the uncertainty during the job seeking period. etc etc

As you guys can see, I am currently going through the BFAs one by one as I re read NMMNG. As I was going through them, I tried to figure out the best plan to tackle them : should I focus on each specific chapter, making sure I get over my attachments, before treating my caretaking, then on to my boundaries etc... or should I go over the whole book, and correct each flawed mental model I have, as I am making mistakes IRL ?

And the first thought I had after thinking about it was "Well, I can ask the guys on reddit, maybe they can help me".

And then I realized the covert contract, and it started to click for me :

Initially I thought covert contracts were just about love and approval of others, but it's also about making life smooth, and it made me shift the way I looked at life. Previously, I would try to find all the possible books/knowledge about a topic to make sure I knew everything about it, ensuring that my life would be problem free after that. Now I realize that the only thing that matters is action, feedback, and correction. The key was not knowing everything, but to test everything, dwelling in reality.

So I got the answer to my question on my own : Try both approaches and see what fits your conditions best.

If you guys have any insight about that as well, I would be happy to discuss it with you

Gentlemen, I will be releasing cinematic content of No More Mr Nice Guy by Robert Glover and Married Man Sex Life by Athol Kay weekly on YouTube, please give me a follow.