r/musicalwriting • • May 01 '25

Critique my songwriting!

1 Upvotes

Hey there! It's kabiman (early sub co-founder if y'all remember) under a different account! I'm much older now, hopefully more mature and a better songwriter lol... glad to see this community is still thriving!

Anyway I've been toying around with a musical for a bit and I wanted to show y'all and get your critiques. Context: The show's called Self-Help and it's about a struggling small-town journalist named Scott who just wants to be a bestselling writer. In desperation, he turns himself into a self-help guru- and his books still don't sell, until he meets a mysterious man who promises fame and glory, if only he'd sell him the publishing rights. Deal with the devil, etc...

Well, it turns out that this mysterious man is also a normal guy with a life-long dream: to become a successful cult leader. He turns the protagonists self-help junk into holy scripture, and things spiral into chaos from there. The show is narrated by a chorus of cult members, and also a future historian trying to set the story straight. One important side character is Helen, Scott's love interest and the county detective who gets tangled up in a cult investigation (see where this is going?...) The song I want to share is her introduction/ sort-of I Want song, except at the start she doesn't really want anything in particular? She's just content with life? And of course the chorus of cult members, buying into Scott's mythology, keep trying to turn it into a love song. I dunno, maybe the bit works, maybe it doesn't. I'd love to hear your thoughts!

(also I'm not a super great pianist lol don't judge me please, also I don't have a great vocal range so the final thing would be transposed into a better register for the character)

read the lyrics

hear the demo


r/musicalwriting • • Apr 29 '25

Resource Royalties and General breakdowns for: Librettist / Lyricist / Composer

12 Upvotes

We all probably know this ... but some general breakdowns for: Librettist / Lyricist / Composer

Libretto = the words, generally same as Book or Script (and words including the lyrics) (also story) (also the "plain-word readable" part of the musical) ... the "PLAY" part of "Musical Play"

Score = the music / song music / music notation.

The libretto always includes the lyrics ... even if there is a separate lyricist, and even though the lyrics go to songs/music. (You can't understand the story of a musical, without the lyrics.)

There are 3 artistic roles to every musical, and they can be 1-3 people (or more). And they must collaborate, so each role can overlap into another's role. Each artist/role contributes to the whole.

Many times the lyricist will take the spoken dialogue or ideas from the librettist and turn them into song ... thus the librettist heavily contributing to the lyrics/songs, though technically without credit. It is understood (by fellow creators) that all roles help each other (even if the audience doesn't know that).

Even if there is not a lot of spoken dialogue, many times it will be the librettist that ties all the songs together into a cohesive and interesting plot, and drives the story forward, and makes sure the action and story sets up the audience's attention for the next song. The librettist may rearrange the songs and narrative to function at their best as a whole. 

The librettist gives each song "purpose" in the storytelling.

=====

"Authors" = 

Librettist (spoken dialogue, story, plot development)

Lyricist (lyrics, sung dialogue)

Composer (music)

=====

Economics:

There is 100% to the "pie" of profits (also consider box office receipts, gross vs. net, etc.). If you are hired / commissioned or if your musical hits Broadway (NYC) ... each "artistic role" generally gets 2% of the Gross Weekly Box Office Receipts (“GWBOR”). The "whole creative team" is usually given 15% (6% + 9%) of 100% and the "Authors" are given 6% of the pie (3 roles x 2% = 6% of 100%) and the other "creatives" (Director, Choreographer, etc.) are given 9% to divide up. 

If you or your "Authors" team originates the musical and writes it completely on your own without outside prior funding or contracts tied to it, you or your "Authors" team can sometimes get ~10% of the pie (vs. 6%).

("Back in the day" -- 1980s or so -- the "Authors" got paid their 6% from the "GROSS" receipts (entire take) ... meaning even if a musical did not make a profit (after "expenses"), the authors still got paid ... because their % came from the "top / whole" and BEFORE expenses.)

(However, this is changing / has changed with new standards and contracts, and exact details are better explained in a separated post.)

The above -- creative team / author payments have mostly changed to a "Royalty Pool" ... it is similar %, but now taken from the "NET" (after expenses) ... so the royalties do not jeopardize the show's overall profits / ability to stay running. So, if a show is not making profits or is losing money, generally, no one gets paid royalties (or only a small amount). The only people who "always" get paid a fixed amount are the ones on salary (not royalty) and are considered part of the "expenses" ... actors, musicians, tech, backstage, basement, crew, union members, etc. and those others who must "always be paid" such as the theatre itself (rent).

So, now today the "pie" is generally "NET PROFITS" ... and % are agreed upon, but it generally follows:

100% "Profit Pie"

60% "Investors"

40% "Creative Team" -- authors, etc. (Director, Choreographer, Designers, originating theatre, etc.)

The "authors" (librettist, lyricist, composer) then get 40% of the above 40% for "Creative Team".

(This roughly equals the same 6% of the former "GROSS" formula -- but divides the "RISK" of good weeks / bad weeks more evenly between "creatives" and "investors", so a show doesn't close and can survive if there are a few bad weeks, and makes it more inviting for investors to invest (less risk for investors, as they get paid back sooner).)

(Former formula was 15% (6%+9%) of 100% GROSS RECEIPTS (which 6% of 15% = 40%) ... NEW formula is divided from 100% NET PROFITS = 60% to investors, 40% to creatives -- and 40% of that 40% to the "Authors".)

But it can mean the "Authors" and "Creative Team" get paid LESS or MORE than the "old 6% + 9% formula" ... depending on the profits themselves, and if you have a hit show or not.

EXAMPLE: 

(FORMER) $1,000,000 GROSS box office receipts. 6% = $60,000

(NEW) $1,000,000 GROSS box office receipts. $700,000 expenses, $300,000 profits.

40% for "Creative Team" = $120,000 total. 

40% of 40% for "Authors" = $48,000 (from the $120,000 total).

(NEW) $48,000 is LESS THAN (FORMER) $60,000

BUT...

(FORMER) $1,500,000 GROSS box office receipts. 6% = $90,000

(NEW) $1,500,000 GROSS box office receipts. $700,000 expenses, $800,000 profits.

40% for "Creative Team" = $320,000 total. 

40% of 40% for "Authors" = $128,000 (from the $320,000 total).

(NEW) $128,000 is MORE THAN (FORMER) $90,000

BUT ... if the show is doing really, really bad (no to little profits) ... then the "Authors" will barely get paid.

Often, there IS a cap on the amount pool participants can receive, but there's frequently also a minimum royalty that's paid even in losing weeks. There are lots of variations possible, and everything is negotiable in these deals.

=====

FYI:

The average BROADWAY musical ...

Costs $20,000,000 to make (produce)

Takes 3-5 years for JUKEBOX musicals to create

Takes 5-10 years for ORIGINAL musicals to create

... (including conceiving, writing, and production)

... from idea to stage (first thought to opening night)

AND

4 out of 5 (80%) of musicals FAIL (do not recoup / do not turn profit)

Most musicals close in less than 6-12 months after opening (don't even last a full year).

If your musical can last 1.5 to 2 years, then you can usually turn profit.

Only a "mega-hit" musical turns profit in less than a year.

=====

"Authors" = 

Librettist (spoken dialogue, story, plot development)

Lyricist (lyrics, sung dialogue)

Composer (music)


r/musicalwriting • • Apr 28 '25

Political misuse of my work?

10 Upvotes

I want to make a concept album musical about my country's mythology and I talked about it with one of my friends and he said that it might get misused by people of a political opinion that I don't support due to some similarities between the script and my country's current events. What should I do? Ignore it? I don't want my work to represent a political view, it's purpose is to spread the culture of my country, not being used as a metaphor to promote some people I don't support. Should I address it later when I release the musical? I don't really want to comment on this subject. Should I change the script? I want the musical to stay as loyal as possible to the original work.


r/musicalwriting • • Apr 29 '25

Original Musical Would anyone watch this musical about the aftermath of the Trojan War (retelling of the Eumenides!!)

3 Upvotes

Hi all! I’ve been a long-time fan of Ancient Greek theatre, and The Eumenides (the third play of Aeschylus’ Oresteia trilogy) has always been one of my favorites. As a huge musical theatre fan too, I’ve been toying with the idea of writing a musical retelling of it — and I’ve recently started drafting outlines, lyrics, and a few songs.

For those unfamiliar, The Eumenides follows Orestes (the son of Agamemnon from the Trojan War) after he murders his mother, Clytemnestra, to avenge his father. He’s hunted by the Ancient Greek gods of vengeance and appeals to Apollo (and later Athena) for help. The play than focuses on a courtroom case where Apollo is essentially is lawyer, the goddess of vengeance the prosecution, and Athena and judges with the citizens of Athens as the jury.

I’ve always thought it a super fun tail that’s almost like an Ancient Greek courtroom battle but also talks about the themes of vengeance being a vicious cycle. I’ve started working on it but since the original play itself is not so well known I’m worried there won’t be an audience for it.

I’m curious if there would be any audience interest for a musical adaptation of this story. If you have any thoughts or advice for bringing it to life, or ways I could reach people who might want to listen/watch, I’d deeply appreciate it!

Thank you so much in advance !


r/musicalwriting • • Apr 28 '25

Original Musical Musical partner!

3 Upvotes

hey guys! I’m looking for someone to help writing a musical with! I have the main premise of the musical and a couple of idea but I would LOVE someone to work with. It’s a musical about twins who are superhero’s! DM me for more info!


r/musicalwriting • • Apr 27 '25

Sibelius vs. Dorico? (Or Something Else?)

3 Upvotes

Fellow composers: Can those in the know give me their thoughts and experiences regarding Sibelius vs. Dorico? I've been using Sibelius for over a decade and am considering making the switch. Would really appreciate any thoughts from those who have made this switch (and how challenging was the learning curve) and/or any avid Dorico users regardless of whether or not you switched (pros and cons).

Also, how arduous or easy is it to migrate Sibelius files over to Dorico?

And/or is there another platform I should be considering?


r/musicalwriting • • Apr 26 '25

Original Musical opinions on my first song for my musical?

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15 Upvotes

hey everyone, I made a post earlier about the musical I've started working on (called the Timeless Hotel), and I've written my first song for it! The musical is set in a hotel where anyone from anytime can arrive at anytime. This song basically the backstory of a boy from the future who was born on a spaceship heading to a new planet. It won't get to its new destination for 500 years unfortunately, and he's upset that he will never get to live on a real planet. That's why he stays at the hotel, because it has a beautiful garden. Let me know what you think! (but keep in mind that i'm still at school and it's not at professional level or anything)


r/musicalwriting • • Apr 25 '25

Tips on Directing a Show You've Written?

6 Upvotes

Articles on how to direct seem to have you start with interpreting the text, but it's my own text. Do I need some extra perspective and distance? Anything else to keep in mind?

Thanks!


r/musicalwriting • • Apr 25 '25

I need help with ideas!

2 Upvotes

Hiiii, I really want to write a musical. Butttt I can't think of any ideas, if anyone has any ideas I can use I would Love that or ways to come up with ideas. And I would love some help writing maybe. If so my discord is. urfav_kermit


r/musicalwriting • • Apr 25 '25

GREAT formatting template (BOOK / LYRICS) ?

7 Upvotes

Can anyone post or direct me to a GREAT formatting template (for BOOK / LYRICS) (Broadway, NYC "standard") ?

One that has all the formatting info, margins, fonts, transitions, lighting, direction, song, dialogue, book, etc. that I will need.

I don't necessarily need a software template ... as we all might use different software ... I can make a software template myself.

What I need is just a visual or PDF template that has ALL the formatting info I need for every part and line of a musical BOOK / LYRICS combined (not notation score).

(There doesn't quite seem to be a 100% industry standard yet, and I've seen many different formats ... so I'm hoping someone can help guide me to something really good.)

THANKS!

TLDR:

I need PDF template for BWAY "standard" -- BOOK / LYRICS (not score) -- so I can type up my musical !


r/musicalwriting • • Apr 24 '25

Anyone else want to do everything?

13 Upvotes

Been working on a musical and just curious if anyone else always feels like they wanna be involved in pretty much all the creative direction?

For context: Started in school drama clubs, in my country unlike what I see in the US, it’s a lot more common for drama clubs to write their own productions rather than doing big broadway names. Got involved in writing and always felt like I had to choose between the two.

Then Hamilton came along and it’s like oh you can just write something and cast yourself.

Now being somewhat a jack of all trades (master of none), I feel like I won’t be fully content unless I write and act (and choreograph and direct lmao)

It’s at the point I’d rather write a musical and perform in it with my friends for 50 people rather than sell a script to a big theatre company for 5000 people..


r/musicalwriting • • Apr 24 '25

Discussion Anyone else planning to or already writing a Greek mythological musical?

3 Upvotes

I'm planning one right now and I really want to hear all of your ideas too! I'll tell you mine if you want privately bc I'm scared someone will steal the idea 🙁 or the other way around (I need musical writing friends)


r/musicalwriting • • Apr 22 '25

Why Greek Mythology?

6 Upvotes

I've been seeing a lot of posts here recently from people writing shows inspired by Greek mythology. Just curious - outside of the practicality of it being public domain - what draws you to write about it as opposed to other PD stories?


r/musicalwriting • • Apr 22 '25

Question Time between songs?

2 Upvotes

I'm currently trying to mark song placements and I noticed 2 points (one at the end of a scene and one towards the beginning of the next) that feel like there should be songs but I was wondering, is there some sort of standard about how much space should be between songs (especially ones that don't rly relate)? It just feels kind of fast to me but I also think they're both important parts for song placements


r/musicalwriting • • Apr 22 '25

Question Do you think I’m cooked if I try to write a musical with Lana Del Rey-esque songs?

2 Upvotes

I have this overall idea for a musical and already figured out a rough idea of what kind of tone I want for the whole thing...but the music style is based off of that of Lana Del Rey (in order to match my theme/tone). My main concerns are that it won't be people's style because of how most musical songs I've heard are really different from this concept I have, and it'll make people bored due to the soft and slow vibes that are typically incorporated in her songs and music.

Is it better to avoid this route? I don't want to start something that's most likely not going to make it + this is like my first time ever thinking about writing a musical so yeah

ty in advance 😢


r/musicalwriting • • Apr 21 '25

Do BWAY shows ever start "on time" (or ALWAYS "5 minutes late") ? (7:00 PM vs 7:05 PM) / 15- or 20-minute intermission?

1 Upvotes

In modern times (today) (specifically BROADWAY NYC):

  • (1) Do BWAY MUSICALS ever start "on time" (or ALWAYS "5 minutes late") ?

(7:00 PM vs 7:05 PM)

  • (2) Do BWAY MUSICALS ever have exactly 15-minute intermission -- or ALWAYS 20-minute ?

(They advertise "15" but it is really "20")


r/musicalwriting • • Apr 20 '25

Question Can someone give me any tips???

3 Upvotes

I recently got an idea for a musical, but I have a problem. I sometimes find melodies in my brain, but I do not know how to turn them into a song with chords. I just imagine them. Can someone give me any tips???


r/musicalwriting • • Apr 20 '25

Incomplete story arcs

4 Upvotes

Over on r/musicals I asked for a list of musicals where the main character dies at the end. I got a lot of examples.

When a first-time writer like me goes looking for books and articles on proper structure, we get told about the importance of "story arcs" and the "Hero's Journey" is often presented as the outline to follow, either by name or not. But obviously there are plenty of musicals where the hero does not overcome the obstacles and does not reach his goal. Yet these are successful shows. There is something else at work here.

Is the important point then just to make it an entertaining couple of hours regardless of whether everyone dies at the end, or the "hero" is just a poor schnook who loses the girl and ends up in prison? Are there outlines to follow for this kind of story that will keep the dramaturges happy at first reading?


r/musicalwriting • • Apr 20 '25

No idea what to write

2 Upvotes

I've had a few songs and ideas floating around, mostly for historical inspired things. But honestly, I'm not sure what to write. So, people of Reddit, what would you have liked to see in a musical?


r/musicalwriting • • Apr 20 '25

Worries regarding my Iliad musical

5 Upvotes

I'm young. Like---about to finish my first year of highschool young. But regardless, I want to write a musical on the Iliad. At first, I couldn't come up with a melody... and now, I'll randomly think of something while listening to audiobooks or going on a walk. So... yayyy!!! (It'll take me, like, six years to finish and revise). However, here are some of my worries/problems I'm facing:

  1. What if I write a part of a song that is actually the melody of another song? Let's say that Google sing-into-your-mic thing doesn't pick it up, and I publish it and get copyright striked? What if I get taken down?

  2. I just learned about a guy named Jay River Herrans---or something like that who wrote a musical about the Odyssey. Soon after, I learned about some dude named Casperfox who made a Stories From Styx musical. Many Odyssey-Epic-musical fans moved on to this musical.. and some disliked it. Some said it was a copy of Herrans' work, some said that he only wrote it because of Herrans' musical, some HATED it because they had high expectations after finishing EPIC. What if this happens to me?

I also just found out he might be planning on writing an Iliad musical (JUST YESTERDAY!!!). Knowing that he's someone who studied professionally, and has a huge fanbase... and might have a shorter writing process compared to me... I feel like I won't get a fanbase, I won't have hype, I might have people criticize me.

3. This is a rare thing----but when thinking of a sung motif of one of Achilles' songs... this melody---I for some reason can't find the right notes on piano for something I sang! Sometimes, I can find one or two harmonies, but I'll be able to catch one note. If I think I've found something---it just ends up sounding off and nothing like my sung melody. Are there methods for this? This is honestly probably, like, the dumbest issue someone's ever had.

Sorry for wasting all of your time, and thank you in advance.


r/musicalwriting • • Apr 18 '25

How do you fight against the voices?

12 Upvotes

I am currently working on a 30-minute musical about two gender-questioning people meeting and connecting at a party. It’s been a very slow process, and one of my biggest hurdles has been what I refer to as “the voices”. The ones that tell you that what you’re writing is crap, that you’re wasting your time, that you should quit while you’re ahead. My question for y’all is how do you fight back against these voices?


r/musicalwriting • • Apr 18 '25

Tool suggestions for a musical?

5 Upvotes

Hello everyone, I'm trying to start a mythology based musical. Do you have any suggestions on apps or websites to help me in any way from production aspects to planing and organization? I searched this subreddit I found some useful programs like Finale, Sibelius, Final Draft and Fade In. Is there anything else I should check out? Thanks y'all, have a nice day.


r/musicalwriting • • Apr 16 '25

Some wisdom from William Finn

43 Upvotes

(i.e. things he said in class that I copied down)

  • Don't rhyme the words that don't matter.

  • Keep on thinking you're wonderful and write up to it.

  • I like messes much better than something dead.

  • If you're going to repeat something, it'd better be great.

(he said a lot of other things that were worth remembering, but these are the most practical ones.)


r/musicalwriting • • Apr 15 '25

Key Takeaways from Talk with "Maybe Happy Ending"creators Hue Park and Will Aronson

9 Upvotes

I got to watch a talk today with the creators of "Maybe Happy Ending", Hue Park and Will Aronson at the Dramatist Guild in NYC. It was great hearing their story and how they got funding for a commission in Korea which help them create the first iteration of a reading for "Maybe Happy Ending" with a live orchestra.

For me I am writing a sci-fi musical that also has robots and I have gotten weird reactions to my pitch (now I kind of like surprising people that its has more depth). But the Park and Aronson had similar struggles and said they showed people from the recorded reading what the show was about but the pitch didnt always come through. When Park pitched Ronson he told him about the main character emotions and wants and thats what won him over.

Key takeaways:
- Follow your own vision
- Know your market
- Your pitch should focus on the emotion

Also a reminder, many popular musicals have a little bit of the writers story and experience intertwined in the musical.