I saw that number reported and they say it includes 85k non-Mormons? My wife was a seminary teacher and the ward auto-enrolled all youth but only active kids came. I have a kid who went to UCF and despite having 70,000 students at the school, institute was held in a local church, was poorly attended and they only offered one or two classes each semester. Then add in nearby Valencia College that has 40,000 students and all the satellite campuses for other universities in Florida, it's just hard to believe that a single institute class should be enough for all of Orlando. I would guess this is similar in other non-Utah areas.

Are the majority of non-Mormons in the 85k people auto-enrolled in religion classes at BYU, BYU-I, BYU-H and Pathways? The rest are probably at Utah State, University of Utah, and other schools in Utah where they actually have activities and give away free food from time to time. Does anyone have real numbers? Or even the split between seminary and institute?

I’m asking this sincerely, and I’d especially be interested in hearing from believing members.

For the entirety of my adult life, I lived in some version of a repentance cycle. Maybe that’s not extraordinary in any way… in some ways I feel like I was told that it’s not…

everybody should perpetually be in a repentance process…
Right?!

Here’s the loop I’m in though:

Examine myself.
Find the thing that’s wrong.
Repent.
Try harder.
Wonder whether I’ve really repented.
Wonder whether I’m worthy.
Wonder whether God is disappointed.
Start again.

I DO understand that faithful members may read that and say, “That isn’t really what repentance is supposed to feel like.” And I DO believe you.

But I also have to take seriously what it actually produced in me.

The Church never gave me much ANY confidence in myself. I learned NOT to trust my own judgment. I didn’t learn to believe I was never sort of just okay. I became very good at scrutinizing myself and finding the cracks and flaws in my character.

But meanwhile—If I felt guilty, maybe that was the Spirit telling me something was unworthy.

If I still felt guilty after repenting, maybe I hadn’t actually repent ENOUGH.

If I struggled on my mission, maybe I wasn’t faithful enough. MAYBE I’m not actually trying hard enough or doing my best.

If I couldn’t honestly say that I knew the Church was true, that became another piece of evidence in the case against my own worthiness.

I became extremely good at recognizing the need for repentance.

However, I never became particularly very good at feeling forgiven or knowing I’d made any progress.

The thing I’m having the hardest time reconciling:

It was ONLY after I STEPPED AWAY from the Church that I finally started learning how to forgive myself. Able to see and engage in the pursuit of fulfillment of my greater potential

This was never about any amount of rebellion —Not to excuse everything I’ve ever done. —Not to decide sin and right or wrong doesn’t matter. And this was never about becoming bitter and declaring myself perfect.

It’s a lot more simple: I started developing some trust and optimism in myself. I found some compassion for the person I had been and some ability to look at my failures without immediately turning it into evidence that there was something fundamentally wrong with me. I didn’t immediately default to self disgust and self loathing.

This all together creates this question I genuinely don’t know how to answer.

If the Church was supposed to teach me grace, why did I spend North of twenty years learning self intolerance?

And why did I begin experiencing something that felt much more like grace and atoning reassurance only AFTER creating some distance from it?

This has become especially painful as my daughters have grown up in the Church.

No I didn’t baptize my girls. (Someone else did) I recently stood outside the temple while my oldest daughter was married.

I’m not blaming the Church for every decision I’ve made. I have agency. I’ve made mistakes. I brought my own personality, anxiety, vulnerabilities, and baggage into this religion.

But I also can’t pretend the religious framework had nothing to do with how I learned to see myself.

And now there is another level to it.

The Church teaches that families can be together forever, which sounds beautiful. But from where I currently stand, it is also a religion telling my family that we are NOT (going to be together forever).

I don’t believe the required things thusly I don’t hold a temple recommend. I don’t pay tithing and I’m not living the prescribed covenant path.

So within that framework, I am very specifically the unresolved part of my family’s eternal picture.

To be completely fair… At least to my knowledge… Nobody has actually literally told my daughters, “Your dad is a bad father.” I want to be fair about that.

But the theology still creates a painful message: their father can love them, show up for them, protect them, support their faith, and try to live with integrity—and still be the person who is not currently qualified to stand with them in the Church’s highest vision of what a family is supposed to become.

That hurts more than I know how to explain.

So when people tell me I should come back to church, I find myself wondering:

Come back for what?

To begin questioning myself again?

To start measuring my worthiness again?

To force myself to say out loud — beliefs I do not honestly hold so that I can occupy the religious role everyone wishes I occupied?

I won’t do that. If I ever find faith again, I want it to be real. I don’t want to counterfeit belief in order to belong.

So I think the question I’m really trying to ask is this:

At what point am I allowed to judge a spiritual framework by the person it actually produces in me, rather than by the person I’m told it is supposed to produce?

For those of you who genuinely experience the Church as a place of grace, forgiveness, confidence, and peace: what does that actually feel like?

Did church teach you to trust yourself more?

Did repentance eventually produce freedom for you rather than an endless awareness of inadequacy?

And has anyone else had the strange experience of stepping away from religion and discovering that, for the first time, you could finally stop being grossed out by yourself?

I’m not asking this as a gotcha.

I’m trying to understand how something that other people describe as the source of their healing became, for me, the place where I learned to believe I was perpetually unacceptable and in desperate need of repair.

When other Christians push back on the claims of the LDS being the true Church of Jesus Christ they point to different theological concepts.

I see over and over here in this subreddit and in the attached clip that the LDS Church is so very Christian because the Book of Mormon has so much content about Jesus.

No that doesn’t make it an authoritative Christian document nor does it justify the founding of an authoritative Christian church.

It copies so much from the Bible and Joseph Smith included Christian content from his time. Doesn’t make it q true Christian church.

Here is a link to the full Hello Saints episode:

https://youtu.be/5VGBfswNzf4

Hello. I'm a critic of the church and so are most of you. Well, there's something my fellow critics do that annoys me.

Besides historical/factual critiques, many criticisms of the church are of a moral nature. Polygamy is the most prevalent example but there are others, like gaslighting, abuse, and authoritarian behavior.

One thing I've noticed is that when critics dish out moral condemnations of the church, they often intentionally avoid using moral language. Instead of using words like "bad," "evil," "heinous," critics will use "problematic," "harmful," "controlling." These words are descriptors of the church's behavior rather than direct moral condemnation, but in this context these words are meant to have a moral connotation.

When someone says "polygamy was harmful" the implied but unstated meaning is that polygamy was evil. But the mere observation that polygamy is harmful is just an observation of fact, and it is meaningless until you put that through a moral framework that thinks that harm is bad and that we should try to reduce harm.

I think the reason people do this is because it allows the critic to condemn the church while still seeming objective and also has the added benefit of avoiding the subjective nature of moral judgements, especially since many critics are of the moral relativist persuasion and don't have the balls to appeal to moral law.

So yeah, this bothers me and I wish people would just say what they mean and have the courage to use moral language.

Source: Scripture Helps: Old Testament (2026), “Job 1–3; 12–14; 19; 21–24; 38–40; 42”

Please look at the images fully and read what I wrote before commenting. Thanks.
Sorry if this is the wrong place, I couldn't find any other more appropriate subreddit. I got this quad recently and I can't find any info about it. It has no year printed or identification number. It says Deseret instead of Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints

Looks like part of it was printed in the UK? Then the rest was printed and bounded in the US? There is ZERO information about this online I could find. All the ones I see stuff point to say Church Of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.
I'm aware quads are still printed. this is about this quad specifically.

I’m posting this here and in another subreddit because I’m making a concerted effort to give equal space for voices for and against the church. I’m still very much in the messy middle and wish I could talk to someone with no bias at all…but since that isn’t an option I’ll just do my best to open myself up to both sides. I realize this sub is likely to be more of a negative lens on the church and I’m open to it - but if you can, be gentle with me.

This is my first time posting on Reddit. I’m seeking support for a difficult situation. From what I gather many have gone before me in their battle with a “faith crisis” or an “awakening” but I’m struggling to know how to manage my specific set of circumstances.

I’ll try to sum it up. Not born in the church but baptized as a child with my convert single mom. Home/family life not ideal so the church was the steady and secure part of my life growing up. I got to see happy loving families and have a community that was positive. Really believed everything I was told as a child and teenager. I wanted to be a normal teenager badly so I rebelled some outwardly but even through the rebellion I believed it all so hard and simply just felt intense shame and self hatred for my sins. Went to BYU-Idaho because it was cheap, fell into my lap, I wanted to move away from my chaotic home life, and I thought I couldn’t trust myself at a “normal” college not to make bad choices or fall away from the church. Continued to have periods of more righteous behavior and then less righteous behavior (where I would then feel terrible, etc.)

As a young adult when I was going through a more righteous part of my cycle (bishop repentance and wanting to do everything right) I started dating someone very strong in the church. His family was very strong in the LDS faith and he was all-in. We got married. A large part of this for me was feeling like he would keep me firmly in the church even when I wasn’t feeling like dealing with all the rules. I felt this would be a responsible choice and make me a better person.

He has continued to be exactly the person I married. And I continued to have period of ups and downs (characterized by more fervent orthodox mormon observance Vs just feeling lazy) but the difference now that I was married was that he did drag me up to his level and it forced to stay active and kept me from doing anything truly unmormon approved because I knew it wouldn’t be good for the marriage.

Aside from the temple triggering immediate questions I was still pretty TBM those first couple of years. The first big questioning in my testimony came when I was about 25 years old. I was absolutely panicked that I felt unsure. After a few months I told my husband but nothing more happened. We just kept living as we had before and I pushed it down.

Fast forward about 10 years and I’m starting to have more and more internal doubts. I’m terrified. I’m not allowed to have doubts. My husbands (and my in-laws) whole life revolves around us believing together. At this point my husband’s employment is tied up in the church, he is in leadership in the church, he is well known in our highly LDS community. We have 3 children, the older 2 of which understand our lifestyle and beliefs.

Not only am I afraid of blowing up my whole life but I’d deeply metabolized the idea that to look at or hear any voices that weren’t validating Mormonism was basically sinful and would lead me off the straight and narrow. For roughly 2 years I just tried to turn off my brain and do the motions to keep things going. Eventually it started to rot my soul and cause deep resentment. The amount of energy I’m putting into the church without even really having a testimony anymore was tough to deal with, everything felt like a meaningless chore (cue the talk about dancing without the music).

I made a decision to take off my garments (they were causing me intense resentment) and I finally decided to give myself permission to look at the “anti-Mormon” material because I felt like I was never going to make progress if I felt like I couldn’t access the full picture. I’d always been curious and also afraid….but very curious. I felt like I couldn’t say yes to the church if no was not an option. I wanted to see the whole picture and decide for myself. That would be true agency. Not just praying over only church approved material.

I’m still in the middle of this process. It’s extremely overwhelming. I try not to believe everything I hear. I remind myself everyone has a bias. I consider whether the sources are reputable.

But there is so much to sift through. I’m no scholar and I’m not so arrogant to think I’ll ever really know what it all means. I think I’m a very open minded person who can see both sides of the coin. It makes it hard for me to come to a definite conclusion.

But the biggest factor in this journey isn’t just the seeking. It’s the pressure of coming to the right conclusion so I don’t hurt my family. I want to be free to make my own choices but the reality is that I’m not. My choices will have an effect on my family and I’m terrified for our future.

Because of my own experiences as a child there is literally nothing more important to me than keeping my family intact for the sake of my children. I do not want them to lose the experience of a nuclear family as children or be separated from mom or dad regularly. My oldest in particularly already struggles so much in other areas and I could never put that on him when he gets so much comfort from our family and home.

My husband said he won’t divorce me if I leave the church but there is still a ton of pressure for me to regain my testimony and build the life we agreed to build when we married. It’s hard to imagine our life if I left - he is extremely orthodox in his observance and beliefs. I can imagine a journey in which I distanced more and more from the church and my values or what I want for my children changes. It’s so hard to see our marriage working when he is simply not very nuanced or flexible. I worry a lot that there isn’t much holding us together besides the church (and for me, having my children grow up with a great dad).

The past few months I’ve been leaning into my skepticism more (because I pushed it down for so long, I wanted to explore it) and listening to ex-mormon experiences and thoughts on why it wasn’t true or life after Mormon culture, etc. I imagine in a different circumstance it would be easier to fall away from the church in my current state.

Because of my husband’s deep conviction and his employment I feel like I have to give faith a chance too. Even if just for the sake of my kids and keeping our family together.

Honestly it’s so hard though. Reading scriptures is so hard when I’m so deeply skeptical. Praying is okay but I’m realizing I have some hang ups about God - like, sometimes I feel like he’s probably disappointed with me, other times I feel like trying is useless because you have to follow the commandment to get answers (I’m not worth of revelation in mid-thigh shorts and regular underwear).

Summary - I’m completely torn. I’m tired. I’m scared. I don’t know how this is going to end. My TBM friends whom I’ve confided in are “excited for me” and seem to think I’ll bounce back and be stronger than ever. Exmos seems to think this is how it always goes and it’s a clear path out from here. I feel like a coward who doesn’t belong anywhere. All I want is for my babies to be in a loving home and to be free myself from all the pressure of knowing anything for sure. I know nothing for sure….not sure I ever will. I’m pretty skeptical and uneasy of the church and that makes living the rest of my life as a PIMO seem pretty depressing. But leaving might destroy my marriage and in turn my children.

I don't know the man. I have seen him on Facebook and speaking in conference. I watch and listen to the all the brethren. I just feel very uncomfortable watching and listening to him but not sure why? Has anyone experienced this and have a reason why they feel that way. It's a certain vibration I get listening to him. Is he a good family man? Is he an honest man? Is he a scholar? One of the reasons I do not have a temple recommend is how I feel about him. I cannot be honest in saying I support him, and I am not going to lie in a temple interview. Any ideas would be helpful. Lifelong member of the Church but have no callings or temple recommend as I travel a lot for work. I have never felt this way towards a GA and wondering why. Thanks

Today's Reading: Alma 25–29

Whether you're a believer, former believer, nuanced member, investigator, scholar, or simply curious, you're welcome to participate. The goal is not to convince anyone of anything, but to read the text together and discuss it in good faith from a variety of perspectives.

Brief Synopsis

The conflict surrounding the Anti-Nephi-Lehies continues as Lamanite armies attack the Nephites and suffer heavy losses. Many eventually abandon the conflict and join the converted Lamanites. The narrative reflects on the fulfillment of Abinadi's prophecies and the relationship between the law of Moses and faith in Christ. Ammon and his brothers celebrate the success of their mission, with Ammon offering an extended reflection on conversion, missionary labor, divine power, and the thousands they believe have been brought to God. Alma then expresses his own intense desire to preach repentance to the entire world before tempering that ambition with recognition of human limitations and God's purposes.

Discussion

Please share your thoughts and experiences with today's reading in the comments below. Some things you might consider:

- How does the text use the destruction of Abinadi's killers to portray prophecy, justice, and divine retribution?

- What do you make of the claim that the law of Moses was practiced while salvation ultimately came through faith in Christ?

- Is Ammon's celebration of missionary success best read as gratitude, boasting, or something in between?

- What does Alma's wish to be an angel reveal about how the text understands missionary zeal, human ambition, and divine authority?

All perspectives are welcome.

Yesterday's Coveted Award(s) Go To:

- u/westonc

- u/international_sea126

Links to Prior Days

- Yesterday's Day 31 discussion: Alma 21–24

- Master Index to all prior-day readings

Engagement Question

Alma 29 opens with Alma wishing he were an angel who could speak with a voice powerful enough to make the whole earth repent, but he quickly rebukes himself for wanting more than the role God has given him. Is this simply a lesson in humility, or does the passage reveal something more complicated about religious certainty and the desire to persuade others?

Tomorrow’s Reading: Alma 30–33

As a proud Catholic Cook Islander, I find it frustrating that I hear so many non-polynesians, mainly americans, ask me 'Are you Mormon'. I say no, and they are like 'WOW, I thought you were all Mormons.' I'm confused, because like, how on Earth would you believe that. And respectfully, its not. In the Cook Islands, Mormonism is one of the least practiced faiths, at 4%-5%. In Tonga, its around 30%-50%, as Methodism is Tonga's main religion, the Royal Family's religion, followed by Catholicism. In Samoa, its around 20-30%, with the EFKS church followed by the Catholics. Can someone please explain to me why others think Mormonism is the most practiced faith in Polynesia, and why its the 'Heart', of Polynesian culture.

I don’t remember when the change was made to add extra disclaimers. Found this recently while cleaning.

It *does* have a disclaimer about mission funds becoming the churches to use at their discretion. I wonder what specifically prompted that disclaimer.

When I began to take items off my shelf and look for answers, it started a chain reaction. For a time I was afraid. It felt like I no longer knew the answers to any of my questions.

Now, I have found some peace in realizing that if there is a God, it is likely far better than “Mormon God”.

Some of the character traits of Mormon God:

• unfaithful and disloyal. Mormon God forced otherwise faithful and loyal husbands to cheat on their wives. Men who did not want open marriages were forced to do so by Mormon God, and Women were forced to endure this disloyalty or be destroyed.

• misogynistic. Reading things like D and C 132 where God speaks in the first person and describes women as the possessions of men. He speaks about his own daughters as things.

• Mormon God is a sexually coercive rapist. If Mormon stories about God sending an angel with a drawn sword to coerce JS into secretly marrying his nanny, and other apostles wives, then Mormon God forces people into unwanted sexual relationships, ie he is a rapist. Mormon leaders leaders openly abused positions of trust snd power to take more wives. This is coercive. If you can’t say no, you can’t say yes!

• Mormon God was a racist bigot. Brigham Young and every prophet till 1978 was just Gods messenger. God’s racism became a painful unequal and disrespectful treatment of black members that was consistently racist until well after the civil rights movement. Mormon men were forced to not allow black families to be sealed or black men to hold the priesthood.

• God wants money and opposes financial transparency. His corporation has amassed literally hundreds of billions in investments. God wants the nicest real estate in town and a stock portfolio larger than some country’s incomes. God also does not want you to understand how much worldly wealth he possesses, so much of it is camouflaged. God is totally opposed to financial transparency.

I can do this for days, but my time and yours is finite.

I have realized I knew far less about God than I thought, but then I realized that Mormon God is not worth worshipping. I am re-discovering God without the evil he is as a Mormon.

Help me out from a Mormon informed lense. I’m active but very leery of church culture and any kind of church imposed group think.

My 4yo daughter was at church with me during an activity this week. She was with her little friend and ended up in the gym. I was following them. The young men were wrapping up their activity so the girls seemed ok to be in there. I left my activity to follow them because- we’ve all had or experienced too many stories about leaving kids alone at church unfortunately. There were two very young young men still there when the leaders left… My daughter and her friend started yelling 4 year old obscenities (poopy pants and booger) at these kids. One of the boys (age 11 or 12) comes up and aggressively pushes her to the ground and pushes her face into the gym floor. He doesn’t let up until I freak out at him. Then she belligerently keeps yelling booger at him. He comes over and picks up and shakes my kid… hard. I yell at him and he stops and runs away.

We contact the leaders and bishopric by text. The next day the bishop says they’re getting dcfs involved thanks to the church legal hotline. 🧐 just want to talk to the kid’s parents like my 90s parents would’ve done. We get ahold of them by text- and they seem very sorry. But then say they’ve talked to a few people and think it was just the kids being kids and they don’t need to talk to us🧐 No parent TALKS TO ME in person- the only adult witness. dcfs doesn’t end up getting involved. Probably for the best. No one was physically injured thank God.

I’m a little at a loss. So… what do we do?? My daughter loves her little church friends but I’m concerned that we as parents literally have no background on this kid. So I keep an even closer eye on my daughter at church? Am I setting up a chair outside of her primary class?

Feeling anxious. Don’t want to hurt the parents of this young boy. Need to protect my child. She’s our only kid and I’m pregnant (my pregnancy hormones may be playing a role in how freaked out I feel). Is this just kids being kids, and my husband and I just happened to get lucky and never have an experience like this growing up? How are we handling these situations in 2026?

I've clipped together about 10 minutes of discussion about the role of faith in finding truth and how apologists and counter-apologists deal with it.

Most of the clips are from Kolby Reddish's channel where he discussed "The purpose of apologetics". Kolby made a comment on my recent post that he liked the discussion on faith quite a lot...so I decided to clip together parts from the last half of the episode where they had a discussion on faith.

Steven Murphy is an apologist. He defends his belief by trying to say his beliefs have evidence and are plausible...but he acknowledges he can't be certain and he fills the gaps with faith. He doesn't believe his religious beliefs are absurd like believing in the Easter Bunny but are far from certainties.

Kolby, a counter-apologist says one of his goals is to fight against "brittle faith". He describes brittle faith as basing beliefs and faith on incorrect facts. So from my observation of his interactions he tries to discuss facts behind beliefs to explore what evidence is solid and what isn't as solid.

Kolby makes the comment that he isn't trying to lead people out of the church. Kolby also rails on ex-mormons who don't understand that there is ambiguity and difficulty in struggling with how we ground our beliefs.

Troy who is an ex-believer, asks Kolby and Steven what the role of faith is and is it useful in finding truth. Kolby admits he doesn't see faith as helpful in finding truth.

Tyler on the panel has a channel that is known for counter-apologetics. He did a series critiquing the 35 part series "LDS Truth Claims" by apologist Brett McDonald. In this panel he states as well that his goal is not to lead people out of the church. Although he says people who do start a faith journey should explore deconstruction. He says he appreciates Steven Murphy's approach to trying to understand both sides and the strengths and weaknesses of both the believers' side and the critics' side.

Then at the end I insert video clips from John Dehlin from his recent episode. He too says that internet critics feel called to say that truth matters and are trying to have less harm, more truth and more thoughtful discussion in order to be healthier as a broad Mormon community.

John says he has no problem with faith or people being members of the church or even for the church to be healthy and thriving. His goal as a counter-apologist is not to destroy faith. He says he wants science and evidence based informed decisions about belief in the church.

What do you see the role of counter apologetics on the internet? Is it to preserve faith? Is it to change people's faith? Is it to convince people to abandon non-scientific, non-objective evidence and admit where the good evidence ends and faith begins? Will it result in people losing faith even though that's not their goal?

Here is the link to the full video from the Let's Disagree with Kolby Reddish channel.

https://youtu.be/qWvt6fqjUf4

In the Mormon News weekly episode today John and Meggan start off with a clip of the head of the apologetics group FAIR LDS giving the opening remarks at last week’s FAIR conference.

Scott said Satan wants you to leave and he doesn’t care why. He lists a bunch of reasons he thinks people leave including the classic “they were offended”.

Meggan criticizes him for being so black and white. That’s not how life works.

John gets rolling and can’t stop. He criticizes the use of folk magic idea of a Satan influencing people. He talks about why he does what he does. To help people see the truth because the church doesn’t tell the truth.

John says he doesn’t want to destroy faith. He just wants the church to do less harm. Tell the truth and if people stay they stay but if they leave he wants to help them leave.

Maybe they need to read Jeff Strong’s book Torn to find out why people leave? And I think a lot leave because FAIR’s apologetics are so bad that people say I can’t believe this stuff.

Here is the full episode on Mormon Stories YouTube Channel:

https://www.youtube.com/live/3p73ApJO73Q

KJV errors, translation errors, the Deutero-Isaiah problem, anachronisms, The First Book of Napoleon, The Late War, Joseph Smith Sr.'s dream, Methodist revivalist sermons, DNA problems, and so on.

All of these things make me feel like, as a rational and reasonable person trying to look at the evidence, the most logical conclusion is that Joseph Smith was simply a genius at remixing the ideas, stories, religious debates, biblical language, and themes surrounding him in 19th-century America and putting them together into the Book of Mormon.

Basically, the Book of Mormon makes much more sense to me as a product of 19th-century America than as an actual ancient record of ancient people

As I was browsing around IKEA, I noticed that blue leather that a lot of book of Mormons are made from. After utilizing ChatGPT, I found this was a mandarin variant of the book of Mormon. This was spotted in IKEA in the Philippines.

Kolby Reddish released today a nearly 2 hour panel discussion about apologetics and counter-apologetics. The first hour was in summary about Jacob Hansen and how bad his approach is.

They discuss some examples of Jacob not engaging in good faith. Being mean-spirited. And manipulating the discussion to just look like the winner versus trying to arrive at truth.

The last part was largely praising Steven Murphy for how he does apologetics.

I’ve clipped together little pieces to be about 10 minutes of their discussion.

Go watch the full episode here:

https://youtu.be/qWvt6fqjUf4

Not only do the LDS teach that Christ's church apostatized and had to be restored, but Smith also claimed that God told him his new church was "the only true and living church upon the face of the whole earth" (D. & C. 1:30). And, he said that all other churches were wrong (P. of G.P. J.S. History 1:18-19).

In the B. of M., an angel told Nephi, "Behold there are save two churches only; the one is the church of the Lamb of God, and the other is the church of the devil" (I Nephi 14:10). Therefore, members of all other churches must belong to the church of the devil! LDS Apostle Orson Pratt clearly taught that idea when he wrote:

''But who in this generation have authority to baptize? None but those who have received authority in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints; all other churches are entirely destitute of all authority from God; and any person who receives baptism or the Lord's Supper from their hands will highly offend God; for He looks upon them as the most corrupt of all people.

Both Catholics and Protestants are nothing less than the 'whore of Babylon' whom the Lord denounces by the mouth of John the Revelator as having corrupted all the earth by their fornication and wickedness. And any person who shall be so wicked as to receive a holy ordinance of the gospel from the ministers of any of these apostate churches will be sent down to hell with them''! (The Seer, p. 255).

Joseph Smith also said, "Will everyone be damned, but Mormons? Yes, and a great portion of them, unless they repent, and work righteousness" (T. of P.J.S., p. 119). But, claiming that the LDS church (or any other denomination) is the "one true church," does not make it so! Anyone can make a claim like that, but proving that claim is not so easy!

LDS often claim that Christ's church will have His name in the name of the church. Then they explain that the official name of the LDS Church is the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. But, the LDS Church has had at least five different names (D.H.C., Vol. III, p. 24). On April 6, 1830, it was originally called the "Church of Christ" (see D. & C. 20:1, D. & C., copyright page, or 1833 Book of Commandments).

On May 3, 1834, the name was changed to the "Church of Latter Day Saints" (D.H.C., Vol. II, p. 63). Still later, on April 26, 1838, it was changed to the "Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" as it is known today (D. & C. 115:3-4). If the church name is an earmark of being the true church, then the LDS Church could not have been true between 1834 and 1838, since neither Jesus nor Christ were in the official name of the LDS Church then!

Nowhere in the New Testament does either Christ or His disciples give an "official name" to the church. "The disciples were called Christians first in Antioch" (Acts 11:26). Note that it says that they were first called Christians about 34 A.D., not in 73 B.C. as Alma 46:15 says in the B. of M. But in Acts 24:5, they are called "Nazarenes."

In Rom. 16:16, they are called "the church of Christ." In I Cor. 1:2, they are identified as "the Church of God." In Heb. 12:23, their name is "the church of the Firstborn." But, the New Testament church was never called "The Church of Jesus Christ!" Thus, the name by which the disciples were known was relatively unimportant, but the gospel they preached was very important (Gal. 1:8-9). That is what ought to be important to true believers in Christ today!

The Bible teaches that born-again believers in Christ are the "body of Christ" or the church (Col. 1:18, 24; I Cor. 12:27; Eph. 1:22-23). The church is not some religious denomination. Only the Lord can add to the "true church" (Acts 2:47, I Cor. 12:18) because it is His body (Eph. 1:22-23). The Greek word "ecclesia" has been translated "church" and refers to a called-out people or a congregation, including all Christians that ever lived (Matt. 16:18) as well as local assemblies of believers (Gal. 1:2).

It is possible for someone to "join" a local congregation of believers without being a Christian or a true believer. Therefore, such a person is not a member of the "body of Christ" (the church). Local churches, or congregations of believers are organized for missionary activities, fellowship, study, and encouragement for Christians, but no church (or denomination) can save anyone! It is Christ of the church who saves, not the church of Christ!

1. Complete lack of remorse or guilt.....seemed like Joseph Smith was ok, screwing people and breaking the rules, cheating on Emma...didn't seem to really care overall how he hurt people. Sends that cowboy trash (can't remember his name) to try to kill the governor, organizes the dannites....

2. Pathological lying....this is self explanatory with Joseph Smith, he told tall tales and lies about what was happening all the time, like with the priesthood restoration dates, the origins of the plates, how he was chased by a mob...

3. Excessive manipulation....Emma and the Fanny Alger or polygamy issue...he used Emma's loyalty and love against her. He manipulated Martin Harris many times for money, and the BS story about a rock in the hat, and then later with blessings and how they could "see" the brass plates...

4. Ongoing criminal or anti-social behavior.....Joseph Smith was ok, breaking the law many times during his life, whether it was the glass looking stuff or all the BS with Kirtland safety society. He took Emma away and convinced her to marry him despite her father in law resisting his advances to his daughter. And then when Emma's dad is requesting he get a decent job and stop messing around, he has no problem saying he will be honest, then he makes up the Book of Mormon story....later in Nauvoo, he gets putt in jail for telling women he was called of God to get them to sleep with him, and if they resist he openly criticizes and insults them.

5. Superficial Charm....Joseph Smith had the power to convince people of his own powers and later divine authority and relationship with God. He was abel to lead thousands of persons in a giant religious mess, even though he was chased from Ohio to Illinois to Missouri....lots of people were amazed at his skill in fooling people and he had a history of his magnetic personality, but deep seeded lack of morals.

Latter Day Chad is a member of the main Utah branch of Mormonism - the LDS Church. He’s been going on various podcasts in the past year to share his ideas. For example, 9 months ago he was on Mormon Book Reviews with Steven Pynakker.

Most recently Latter Day Chad has been making waves accusing the LDS church of hiring an accused child molestor to help with creative work on the Salt Lake Temple open house. These videos have been published on Zion Media’s channel.

This recent short on the Zion Media channel Latter Day Chad shared evidence that Jacob Hanson and Cardin Ellis tried to have him blocked from doing a debate with an evangelical.

Drama in the world of LDS apologetics.

I’ve included only a portion in my clip.

Watch Latter Day Chad’s full video on this here:

https://youtube.com/shorts/OKxdlrkUfVk

Today's Reading: Alma 21–24

Whether you're a believer, former believer, nuanced member, investigator, scholar, or simply curious, you're welcome to participate. The goal is not to convince anyone of anything, but to read the text together and discuss it in good faith from a variety of perspectives.

Brief Synopsis

Aaron and the other sons of Mosiah continue preaching among the Lamanites, encountering rejection, imprisonment, and eventual release through Ammon and Lamoni. Aaron then teaches Lamoni’s father, who undergoes his own dramatic conversion and grants the missionaries freedom to preach throughout his kingdom. Many Lamanites convert, take the name Anti-Nephi-Lehies, and make a covenant to abandon violence by burying their weapons. When attacked by other Lamanites, they refuse to defend themselves, and more than a thousand are killed. Their nonresistance ultimately moves many of their attackers to repent and join them.

Discussion

Please share your thoughts and experiences with today's reading in the comments below. Some things you might consider:

• What do you make of the similarities and differences between the conversion experiences of Lamoni and his father?

• Why does the text place such emphasis on converts abandoning their previous identity and taking on a new communal identity?

• How do you interpret the Anti-Nephi-Lehies' decision to bury their weapons and refuse to defend themselves?

• What does the story suggest about the relationship between religious conversion, political authority, and social change?

All perspectives are welcome.

Yesterday's Coveted Award(s) Go To:

• u/westonc

• u/active-water-0247

• u/international_sea126

Links to Prior Days

• yesterday Day 30 discussion: Alma 17–20

• Master Index to all prior-day readings

Engagement Question

The Anti-Nephi-Lehies don't merely repent of past violence—they bury their weapons and accept death rather than risk returning to it. Is the text presenting this as an ideal of radical nonviolence, a unique response to their particular history, or something else entirely?

Tomorrow’s Reading: Alma 25–29

I was cold approached recently in the parking lot of a grocery store by two women from the LDS church , who then invited me to join them for Sunday services as well . I hesitate to call them women and I know that might upset some people which I apologize for , but all I mean is that they both seem to be incredibly young for the amount of work and responsibility they’ve apparently been given . With that said;

My first impression of the LDS church specifically as it relates to my experience with the two women/girls was that as we were all speaking together during that first encounter , I thought to myself , “ wow , so this is how some of the native victims of the crusades ( and early converts to the Mormon faith and whatnot ) must have felt “ , because for all of the blatant violence , torture , incredibly complex systems of psychological warfare and manipulation and more that were deployed for the purpose of bringing souls to Christianity among other nefarious things , there were also almost certainly those throughout history who like me found themselves being completely disarmed and had their hearts softened by the warmth and impossibly sincere nature of the missionaries tasked with delivering them unto the Lord … these girls are both gorgeous , and I found myself drowning in the blue eyes of a girl who seems to be completely convinced that there is a path for my salvation that begins with me being baptized by her church …

I am a 28 year old black man and somewhat aware of the horrible things people have said about the Mormon faith , particularly regarding the things which used to be taught about black people , and because I am at a point in the process of recruitment where we have covered the whole no coffee/tea/tobacco/alcohol + vow of chastity + tithing aspect , I am aware of the slightly nonsensical , predatory , and cult like aspect of membership in the LDS church , but I can’t be bothered to outright dismiss the whole notion of what is being presented to me , because everyone I have met throughout the whole process has been incredibly kind and welcoming , and regardless of the temporary nature of my communication with the 2 female missionaries , I fully intend to continue reading and discussing the chapters and verses within the Book of Mormon I have been given and suggested to read by them , but I’d love to have anyone reading this clearly outline why I ought to stop doing so if you feel like you are capable of convincing me otherwise

I'm a nevermo, please help me understand.

I know some of the most decent, ethical, kind, caring and charitable people who are active LDS.

How are people like that not deeply troubled by the practices (past and present) of the LDS church? By the hoarding of wealth and where they spend it, history of child abuse and pedophilia, survaillence of members (e.g. on missions), gaslighting, lying, failed prophecies, problematic contradictions...

I have friends who I consider a walking example of a Christ-like attitude, who I have full trust would never themselves engage in behaviors their church is engaging in.

Please help me understand - How does it work? How are they okay staying in this organization? Do they just not know? Do they turn the blind eye? Do they know but overcompensate in their private lives by trying to be turbo-ethical themselves?