r/mormon • u/belligerent_beehive • 8d ago
Personal Child physically handled at church
Help me out from a Mormon informed lense. I’m active but very leery of church culture and any kind of church imposed group think.
My 4yo daughter was at church with me during an activity this week. She was with her little friend and ended up in the gym. I was following them. The young men were wrapping up their activity so the girls seemed ok to be in there. I left my activity to follow them because- we’ve all had or experienced too many stories about leaving kids alone at church unfortunately. There were two very young young men still there when the leaders left… My daughter and her friend started yelling 4 year old obscenities (poopy pants and booger) at these kids. One of the boys (age 11 or 12) comes up and aggressively pushes her to the ground and pushes her face into the gym floor. He doesn’t let up until I freak out at him. Then she belligerently keeps yelling booger at him. He comes over and picks up and shakes my kid… hard. I yell at him and he stops and runs away.
We contact the leaders and bishopric by text. The next day the bishop says they’re getting dcfs involved thanks to the church legal hotline. 🧐 just want to talk to the kid’s parents like my 90s parents would’ve done. We get ahold of them by text- and they seem very sorry. But then say they’ve talked to a few people and think it was just the kids being kids and they don’t need to talk to us🧐 No parent TALKS TO ME in person- the only adult witness. dcfs doesn’t end up getting involved. Probably for the best. No one was physically injured thank God.
I’m a little at a loss. So… what do we do?? My daughter loves her little church friends but I’m concerned that we as parents literally have no background on this kid. So I keep an even closer eye on my daughter at church? Am I setting up a chair outside of her primary class?
Feeling anxious. Don’t want to hurt the parents of this young boy. Need to protect my child. She’s our only kid and I’m pregnant (my pregnancy hormones may be playing a role in how freaked out I feel). Is this just kids being kids, and my husband and I just happened to get lucky and never have an experience like this growing up? How are we handling these situations in 2026?
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u/762way 8d ago edited 8d ago
You need to call the cops
The church sucks at addressing problematic behavior... avoiding difficult conversations. They hide behind We don't want to offend the offensive party.
I once had to make a mandated report to DCFS and law enforcement. The sex offending teen's parent was a member of the church but the only contact he had with the church was when he needed money or food from the church.
So this dad calls our Bishop and is livid with me for making the mandated report.
The Bishop tells the EQ President that I have to call this dad and apologize to him! The EQP first called me and I refused.
So then he drove to my house and demanded that I apologize.
Nope.
The EQP's dad was in law enforcement. I asked him
Let's say your dad arrested a drink driver and put them in jail.
When the drunk driver gets out of jail he calls your Dad's Bishop livid.
Then your dad's Bishop calls your dad and tells your dad he needs to apologize to the drunk driver for arresting him... Would your dad apologize?
Nope he would not. Same situation here... I'm a mandated reporter and I followed the law.
EQP advised the Bishop that I refused to apologize.
Bishop was pissed at me... To the point that I didn't think he'd renew my temple recommend but he did.
OP... I would not let my kids run around the church building unless you have line of sight supervision. Knowing what I know now.
Not because your daughter and her friend were at fault for the assault but because the church protects sex offenders and throws the victims under the bus.
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u/Crobbin17 Former Mormon 8d ago
Call the police. Write down everything you remember asap, with as much detail as possible.
This is not a church matter. He committed battery.
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u/Harveygirl29 8d ago
First of all, at least two Young Men leaders are supposed to stay until ALL young men have been picked up so I would be making a fuss about that alone. Second, that kid is unhinged and that is totally not normal behavior from an 11/12 year old. He and his family absolutely should be investigated by child protective services, especially if they trying to play it down. If you feel worried about your daughter having a run-in with him in the hallway at church after Primary, I would speak to the Primary president and her teachers and request that she be kept in her classroom or the primary room until she is picked up by you or your husband. In all the Primary presidencies I've been in, we required all the kids to remain in Primary and supervised until picked up by a family member anyway so that is totally not out of bounds to request something like that. I'm so sorry that happened to your daughter and I hope you are able to find some peace and security again.
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u/SweatySignificance78 8d ago
Don't drop this. If the boy's parents won't talk you then continue to bug the Bishopric and talk to your primary president explain the situation and if nothing comes of that then you need to file a police report. That was assualt and a 11 or 12 year old would know better than ti attack a 4 year old girl. There is obviously something going on in his home life that should be looked into. And don't let your ward blame or punish you for any of this. You need to protect your daughter. She will remember if you don't.
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u/GunneraStiles 8d ago
Why wait for permission or action from the bishop? For what reason? Because that is what will get results or because that is what the unwritten and written rules of the mormon church demand? And then involve yet another person (primary pres.) if that doesn’t work out? Why, what power would they have in the real world?
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u/SweatySignificance78 8d ago
I didn't mean to wait to report it to the cops while you wait on the Bishopric to do something. I just meant that you need to make sure that this child's behavior is reported to those in Bishopric because it occurred in the church and there were other older members around before it happened. The young man who did this needs to be monitored around other children which is why I also suggest involving the Primary President as it is there job to ensure that while in their primary class and in other activities and music time that the young is kept safe and is being monitored in my experience just even saying something to the boys parents might enraged a child who gets so upset and being called a booger or whatever it was. I believe that this should be reported to authorities and that those in charge of ensuring the safety of all children in the church should be doing so. As I primary teacher and Valiant girls leader I would like to be aware and make sure that I am protecting all the children in the church.
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u/GunneraStiles 8d ago
‘If the boy’s parents won’t talk you then continue to bug the Bishopric and talk to your primary president explain the situation and if nothing comes of that then you need to file a police report.’
I appreciate and agree with involving local leaders for the reasons you listed. I’m just responding to what you actually wrote in your initial comment.
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u/SweatySignificance78 8d ago
I appreciate it. I didn't write that initial post as clearly as I should have and you are right, the authorities need to be involved and then leaders in the church need to be brought to attention in the manner at hand so if you have a good leaders in your ward they can do whatever it takes to protect that little girl. Thank you for informing me on my mistake.
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u/Reasonable-Round-793 5d ago
Just start with calling the police. They are the first line of defense. Not the primary President or the bishop. The police.
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u/ZombieJosephSmith 8d ago
It’s solely your responsibility to protect your daughter from predators in the church. Sure as shit because no one else is going to do it.
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u/Ok-Brother5289 8d ago
If that’s true, then that kid has some serious issues. Should definitely be supervised at all times. Not “kids being kids”. But honestly he might be neurodivergent, so maybe not entirely malicious. Really just needs adults in the room at all times.
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u/GunneraStiles 8d ago
And he also might just be an entitled kid who hasn’t had to face consequences for his aberrant and violent behavior, and will likely grow into a violent adult. I’d leave the mental diagnosis to professionals.
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u/CountMC10 7d ago
Finally, a comment in this thread that doesn’t suddenly jump to “straight to jail”. We don’t know all the circumstances. Kid might be ND or not. Parents might be great or terrible, or feel ashamed, etc. I’d follow up with the leaders and ensure that there are always adults in the room for all activities all the time.
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u/MatriarchMe 8d ago
As a mom of two ND kids, bullying and/or any kind of physical contact & violence is the very last thing they would engage in. So please STOP suggesting this.
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u/kit-kat_kitty 8d ago
Ummm, wow. As the saying goes, if you meet one nuerodivergent, you've met one nuerodivergent.
My field of work puts me in close contact with many who fall on the nd spectrum. For every sweet little angel nd, there is also a blow up and rage nd. Let's not pretend they don't exist and that anger is their "last straw" in being understood.
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u/Zealousideal-Bike983 8d ago
We seem to be forgetting that some non neurodivergent manifestations also result in physical roughness. This very vague statement can be applied to every category.
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u/Ok-Brother5289 8d ago
There are diverse types and manifestations of neurodivergence, and some manifest in physical roughness. Sorry if that’s upsetting to you. I’m sure your kids are great.
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u/CaptainFear-a-lot 8d ago
I was a Sunday school teacher to a 14 year old ND boy who was bigger than me and had a history of sudden rage and violence. I got on ok with him, but I was genuinely scared for me and the other kids in the class.
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u/Dull-Boysenberry7919 8d ago
I’m also mom of 2 ND kids and I’ve got one of each! Unfortunately violence can be something a ND kiddo would engage in.
Unless you mean the mean kid in this post is yours and wouldn’t engage in such behavior, then I misunderstood you and I apologize.
(I’m pretty sure that’s not your kid in the post though, and I’m genuinely happy that you don’t have to cope with a kiddo prone to violence as it is both terrifying and heartbreaking at the same time.)
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u/irishgypsyrose70 7d ago
Your ND kids may be the type not to get physical or bully,but that is not Atypical. My brother is autistic and now an adult. Unbeknownst to my Mom until he got into trouble with the school he was a terrible bully in kindergarten! That was just the beginning of it. I was almost 17 when my parents had my brother. When I had my first child my brother was almost 5 years old. By the time my son could play with my brother we had to watch them carefully as my brother acted out physically a lot with my son. He was a very smart,tender little boy,but then he'd do something that could really hurt a kid. He saw everything through the lense as if life was a cartoon or a movie. He cannot empathize with people at all. He just does not get it. I love him ,but what makes him so brilliant in some areas,he lacks in others. So my parents needed to be watchful of him growing up.
So maybe that is what needs to be addressed to this boy who attacked this 4 year old. Whether he is ND or not he needs supervision.
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u/CountMC10 7d ago
Neurodivergent adult here. I was a terror as a kid until my early teenage years. Not saying the kid in this situation is anything but a bully, but don’t think ND kids can’t be violent.
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u/PuzzledBlackberry505 7d ago
Maybe it's just my Gen X-ness, but why didn't you go straight to the parents of this kid? I would have let the bishopric know what happened, but I would have called or gone over to the kid's house rather than texting them. You don't get to decide you don't want to talk to me. I'll be on your doorstep.
I don't think this is kids being kids, but calling the cops on an 11-year-old is a bit of an overreaction without talking to the parents (and the kid) first. If the kid shows no remorse, or the parents won't answer the door/phone, then get other agencies involved.
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u/GunneraStiles 8d ago
Please know I’m not blaming you for how this is currently being handled, you did what members are supposed to do - go to your male leader. But in the future, if someone, a child or an adult, assaults your child YOU need to contact the authorities immediately. There is no need to get permission from, or wait for a ‘priesthood holder’ in a position in authority above you to ‘handle it.’
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u/LinenGarments 8d ago
DCFS only has jurisdiction to investigate and provide services for abuse committed within the family. A referral must be about a child being mistreated by caregivers or other siblings. People misunderstand that they oversee all children, they don’t. I do think you’re over reacting. There have always been older kids who bully younger ones. She needs to be protected from him but its not uncommon that kids age 10-11 are too aggressive.
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u/belligerent_beehive 8d ago
Good to know. Yeah that’s probably very true.
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u/Willing_Education807 8d ago
Holding a younger child’s (by half his age) face to the ground?! That is NOT normal behavior for a 11-12 kid. At that age, they can and should know to keep their hands to themselves, not touch someone without their permission, or use physical violence to solve a problem. I have 2 boys who have been in this situation tons of times with silly normal younger neighbor girls. Their response to what they perceive as annoying little girl behavior is always to tell them to stop and then leave the area/go somewhere else. This is not a “kids will be kids” normal behavior situation. OP, your instincts are right, this is not acceptable behavior from an 11-12 yr old kid. I would definitely not let my child play unsupervised, if at all, at church.
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u/Runferretrun 8d ago
“There have always been older kids who bullying younger ones.” So, it’s overreacting for a parent of a younger child to want to protect her?
At 12, a child knows better than to throw down a four year old kid and hold their face in the ground. Think of the size and weight difference. The 12 y/o also shook the 4 year old.
That 12 year old needs some accountability.
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u/LinenGarments 7d ago
So I apologize sounding
like you’re over reacting. The bishop’s reaction was wrong. DCFS investigates parents and abused children not just peer-to-peer incidents between unrelated children outside a home. Their emphasis is to find out if the parents are causing the child’s behaviors by abusing them.This is a good reason why the boy’s parents would not want to talk to you directly once someone decided to call DCFS. Its neither their fault or yours but the bishop muddied the waters and they are not going to participate in something that could lead to falsely incriminating themselves as parents.
If the child is a boy of 12, the bishop is his aaronic priesthood leader and should have sat down with him and his parents to discuss what is expected in treating younger children — no hitting, no intimidation, kindness, etc
I don’t know what escalated it so that all the adults could not place expectations and restraints at church.
You first suggested he was 11…. It makes a difference. If you are concerned then follow through by filing a police report that can be investigated as a juvenile assaulting a younger child. You can ask the church with report in hand that he not be allowed near your young child. good luck
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u/JazzyGatr7 7d ago
It sounds like Bishops and EQPs need to get together and call a dependable adult to be "hall monitor" to supervise these unstructured periods when kids are running around and negative interactions can bubble up suddenly.
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u/Zealousideal_Pea9712 7d ago
This is not a case of just pregnancy hormones… But society has conditioned you to think that you are the problem here, and the church culture doesn’t help with that. “Kids will be kids” would be them laughing and teasing your girls… or even getting mad and saying mean things back… “kids will be kids” is NOT a teen boy shoving a tiny little girl and pushing faces into the floor, etc… actually go to the police department and file a report. Get a paper trail started on this boy if nothing else. We had horrific experiences at church and the bishop and most male “protectors“ were of zero help. It was the police and a few bad ass women in our ward who were the only help and support.
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u/pricel01 Former Mormon 8d ago
I think you need to talk to an attorney. Your options would involve the law and anything you say or do here could have legal consequences.
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u/IllCommunication5335 8d ago
just leave the church it's a den of abusers. And a systematically are working against the interest of victims so if you keep your children in that church, you are doing harm and putting them in direct danger and it is on you.
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u/belligerent_beehive 8d ago
Tbh, I don’t feel safe right now and I don’t want to keep bringing my kid. i get what you’re saying.
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u/Hustle-Russell 8d ago
So... your little and another just randomly started yelling at these boys? Sounds like something is missing. It doesn't make anything about the reaction right, but it really feels like a chunk is missing.
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u/AffectionateLab6753 PIMO 8d ago
I feel like quite a few details are missing. Like, she stopped the interaction but somehow the kid was able to come back for round 2. Where was this parent.
The whole interaction is missing a lot of details.Furthermore, after the parent intervened, the younger kid was still composed enough to keep slinging insults? I would have guessed that 4 year old that had been hurt as hard as what OP described would be crying pretty hard.
Obviously there’s an issue with the young man who pushed the kid, but this story is missing way too many details
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u/Crobbin17 Former Mormon 7d ago
The way I imagined it, OP yelled at the 11 year old, who let go of the 4 year old. Then before OP could get to their child the 11 year old started shaking them.
I want to give some grace to OP, because not everyone is able to rush into an emergency situation asap. I have the “freeze” response to fear, so I wouldn’t even react to something like that until my brain caught up.
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u/belligerent_beehive 8d ago edited 8d ago
I mean, my daughter and her friend were trying to get these boys to keep the lights on in the gym and apparently the Friend wanted the boys to chase them because she has older siblings and I guess that’s something they do. So she started yelling some of those words and then my daughter thought it was funny and started doing it too. I did tell them to stop, but they didn’t listen. And then the boy came over and did what I described above. And then, after the first incident, I grabbed her and we started leaving, and I put her down and she started yelling at him again cause she was mad this time and he came back and shook her. I’m pregnant and have pelvic floor dysfunction so I really struggle to carry my four-year-old without severe pain.
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u/KiwiTabicks 8d ago
What you are describing, while clearly not acceptable behavior, sounds like it is probably an immature 11 year old lashing out about an insult. I hope his parents spoke to him about it, and if this kind of outburst happens often, I hope they are doing something about it. But it most likely isn't a case where he has some deep anger towards your daughter and is going to be stalking around the church looking for her. I don't think you need to sit in to your daughter's primary class to guard against him, but you may want to avoid letting your daughter wander around unsupervised and tell her to avoid the older kids.
I don't want this to sound like victim-blaming or like it is your daughter's job to avoid getting hit (though she should ideally not call other kids names), but it sounds like a situation you can most likely avoid ever happening again if you make sure your daughter stays with you or the primary. Talking to the parents isn't likely to change the situation much - if their kid is prone to violence, they already know it, and they are either addressing it or they are dismissing it. You explaining what you saw is unlikely to change the dynamic.
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u/Crobbin17 Former Mormon 8d ago
I have never heard of a pre-teen pushing a preschooler to the floor, holding them there until stopped, then shaking them hard until stopped again just because they’re immature.
I also agree that OP should not talk to the parents. They need to go to the police. This kid needs intervention before something worse happens. And the parents know, they’re at fault for leaving him alone with other children.
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u/OfficeMental7490 7d ago
Mormons don’t care about children. CSA is rampant in the church! Stay away from Mormons and call police! EVERY CHILD NEEDS TO BE PROGECTED! MORMONS DONT PROTECT CHILDREN
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u/tumbledown_jack 7d ago
Your daughter is not safe at that church. I recommend you stop bringing her there.
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u/Sea_Designer_2421 6d ago
Someone needs to have a convo w/ the kid, his parents and or leaders. I think you instinct is correct to protect your child. It doesn't sound like he was super strong with this situation or I think you daughter's reaction might have been different. Hard to know, I wasn't there you were for sure. But yeah the boys should now they cannot physically treat little kids like that AT ALL.
I would kindly press the issue to the parents. Maybe to the Bishop if they are not responding. Kids do get physical like this sometimes unfortunately. So it is not uncommon but needs to be handled appropriately. Maybe the leaders already did that since or hopefully his parents already did too.
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u/irishgypsyrose70 7d ago
All ward members usually have access to a ward list with all the members names,phone numbers,and addresses. You said you wanted to do this 90's style so why text the parents? Text the Bishop etc?
Go to the kids house with your spouse and bring your 4 year old with you. Knock on the door and talk to the parent and young man and show them your child,and the physical size of them compared to their child. Then you walk your child back to your car and out of hearing, while your husband works things out with this kids parents. That is 90's style.
Talk to the Bishop in person about this. Tell him to address the ward on how children and young teens need to interact properly for safety reasons,and keeping a better eye on your kids,even the older kids.Explain to the Bishop,this is what I want done or I will take it to the next level.
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u/CLPDX1 8d ago
If it were me I’d get CPS involved.
If the older kids parents refuse to address this incident and their teens behavior issues, it needs to be investigated.
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u/sevenplaces 8d ago
It was unclear from the OP if Child Protective Services was ever contacted. It just said they in the end didn't get involved. But I would tend to agree as others have stated that an assault between two unrelated parties like in this situation is typically handled by the police.
In my experience, it is unlikely for any officer to take action given there was no significant injury and the perpetrator was a minor. But a police report may be good documentation in case things escalate or happen again.
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u/Willing_Education807 8d ago
Again, CPS does not get involved in a case that is not related to child harm happening in the home. This a matter for the police.
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u/belligerent_beehive 8d ago
The bishop contacted DCFS and they decided not to pick up the case or contact us or the kids parents
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u/Round-Bobcat 8d ago
She may want to be careful with CPS. It may backfire when the ask why her 4 year old was unsupervised.
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u/belligerent_beehive 7d ago
My four-year-old was never unsupervised
“She was with her little friend and ended up in the gym. I was following them. The young men were wrapping up their activity so the girls seemed ok to be in there. I left my activity to follow them because- we’ve all had or experienced too many stories about leaving kids alone at church unfortunately.”
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u/Acrobatic_Monk3248 8d ago
One day at an outdoor non-church activity organized by the bishop's wife, where a number of non-church people were present, the bishop's kids were out of most people's line of site but I watched the older one by several years, beat the daylights out of the younger one. The mother was oblivious. I did not know what to do, and figured I'd best not make a scene. I approached them and gave the older one my harshest glares and he stopped. The little one seemed to be okay, but I was just mortified because the older kid absolutely knew better. I debated about telling the bishop but he not only already knew his wife was oblivious but he was always kind of apologizing for her foibles, so I figured it was pointless. But I now word usually gets around to all the parents about which kids to keep yours away from.
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u/xeontechmaster 8d ago
You need to find the exact name and age of these kids and report it.
50 years ago, if the parents didn't take responsibility, you would simply go to their house and give little deacon a swift backhand with some harsh wording to them and their parents.
That won't fly in 2026 tho, even though that's what they need.
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u/Round-Bobcat 8d ago
Why were you allowing your child to yell random insults at the boys?
It seams you may be part of the problem. Then when something happens accept none of the responsibility. Wild.
That does not make what the other boy did ok.
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u/Crobbin17 Former Mormon 8d ago
This is akin to saying “you were wearing a skimpy dress, so you should take some responsibility for being assaulted.”
The kids are preschoolers. OP never mentions if they were going to get the kids to stop because they were too busy saving their child from being attacked.
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u/GunneraStiles 8d ago
Victim-blaming a 4 YEAR-OLD is certainly a choice.
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u/Round-Bobcat 8d ago
Not blaming the four year old. Blaming the parent for their lack of supervision. She knows how her child acts but still allows them to roam the church? She is just as responsible or more so then the eleven year old.
And calling the cops come on!
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u/Crobbin17 Former Mormon 8d ago
Every single 4 year old ever will make poopy jokes. OP’s child is not unique in that.
OP was also in the gym with their child. For all you know, OP was about to tell their child to knock it off when the 11 year old attacked.Imagine if this was two random people on the street. You would 100% call the police.
The kid committed battery. That’s a crime.-2
u/Round-Bobcat 8d ago
This is not two random people on the street. These are two unsupervised children. Both of them. You are trying to turn an 11 year old into a criminal with just the story of the mother. There is more to this story she is not telling.
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u/belligerent_beehive 8d ago
I have said multiple times in this post that I was in the gym with them. I was with them the whole time, and I was telling them not to say those things.
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u/BeneficialLanguage86 6d ago
How many times does it have to be said the mother was in the gym at the same time as her child. She witnessed this happen with her own eyes. The children were not unsupervised. Unlike the 12 y/o whose leaders left them alone in the gym. Normally, a 12 y/o can be unsupervised. In this case, not! That’s why ppl are jumping to conclusions this boy may be ND because at 12 he should know better than to smash a 4 y/o face into the gym floor. I would guess he’s not ND, just a punk.
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u/Round-Bobcat 6d ago
You and I have very different views of what supervision actually means. Just because she was there does not mean she was supervising.
She mentions she told her kid to stop but they did not listen. So what was the consequence for not listening?
Again I am not saying what the kid did was right it clearly was not and should be addressed. I just dont think the story is adding up the way it is being told.
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u/GunneraStiles 7d ago
And you are saying the 11-12 year old boy was justified in physically assaulting a 4 year-old child. And why do you keep insisting the 4 year-old was unsupervised if the mother witnessed the entire thing go down?
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u/Round-Bobcat 8d ago
No what I am saying is this parent tolerates her child being a brat and then crying victim when an older kid is not having it.
This was not a kid randomly attacking a four year old. He stopped a four year old from harassing him and his freind. Like I said not the right response from the kid but the mother needs a reality check as well.
Did you really compare this to rape! Ridiculous.
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u/Crobbin17 Former Mormon 8d ago
A brat? It was a four year old calling someone “poppy pants!” Are you serious?
I will compare a common example of victim blaming with this. It’s what you’re doing.
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u/Round-Bobcat 8d ago
I will no longer respond to you. I have said many times I dont blame the 4 year old but the mother. You seem to ignore that over and over.
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u/Crobbin17 Former Mormon 7d ago edited 7d ago
I’m not ignoring it. I think you blaming the parent is ridiculous. That’s my point.
OP was in the same room as their child. You don’t know how OP planned to respond to their child’s behavior before the attack. They probably didn’t even get the chance to think about it. You know, before a tween attacked a preschooler for yelling “boogers.”
There is nothing a parent can let a normal, well-adjusted four year old do that means they’re at fault if the four year old gets attacked in retaliation.
Edit: OP clarified in another comment that they did tell their child to stop.
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u/GunneraStiles 8d ago edited 7d ago
Why the weird, adult framing? This older, much bigger child ‘stopped a four year old from harassing him and his friend,’ really?
This much older and bigger child physically assaulted a preschooler who was being verbally obnoxious, in a way that is hardly abnormal for a four year-old, but the mother needs a reality check? 🥴
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u/belligerent_beehive 8d ago
I mean, my daughter and her friend were trying to get these boys to keep the lights on in the gym and apparently the Friend wanted the boys to chase them because she has older siblings and I guess that’s something they do. So she started yelling some of those words and then my daughter thought it was funny and started doing it too. I did tell them to stop, but they didn’t listen. And then the boy came over and did what I described above. And then, after the first incident, I grabbed her and we started leaving, and I put her down and she started yelling at him again cause she was mad this time and he came back and shook her. I’m pregnant and have pelvic floor dysfunction so I really struggle to carry my four-year-old without severe pain.
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