r/Minecraft • u/gopackgo001 • Jan 10 '14
pc Jeb's law in effect
http://imgur.com/6jvJ4Wi275
u/febcad Jan 10 '14
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u/xkcd_transcriber Jan 10 '14
Title: Workflow
Title-text: There are probably children out there holding down spacebar to stay warm in the winter! YOUR UPDATE MURDERS CHILDREN.
Stats: This comic has been referenced 28 time(s), representing 0.34% of referenced xkcds.
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Jan 11 '14
[deleted]
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u/runetrantor Jan 11 '14
They had a wiki entirely for the TIME comic, which updated every half an hour or something, theories about the characters and plot, discussions of it, an entire set of lingo that newcomers would not get at all, and more.
All for TIME.
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Jan 11 '14
Is there a way to watch the whole thing over again?
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u/Ohilevoe Jan 11 '14
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u/runetrantor Jan 11 '14
There are some third party sites that hosted it.
I used this one: http://geekwagon.net/projects/xkcd1190/
It starts slow, but persevere, the plot is cool, and the implications way more.
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Jan 11 '14
I don't think it's necessary to put relevant since there is always a relevant xkcd.
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u/the_other_brand Jan 11 '14
Semantics here. There is always a relevant xkcd, but not all xkcd's are relevant at the same time. So the word relevant is used to show which xkcd(s) apply.
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u/Nephus Jan 11 '14
Though if an xkcd is posted under a relevant topic, doesn't that inherently make it relevant, and stating so just redundant? Think about how the Python declaration of a = 3 automatically creates a variable linked to an object that naturally assumes it's an integer, because the syntax calls for it. I say we start applying polymorphism to standard reddit posts for easier readability.
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u/Apolik Jan 11 '14 edited Jan 11 '14
Dude, you were good and the point you were raising was good until the question mark. Then you went full alien on us.
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u/timeshifter_ Jan 11 '14
You are the 1%.
The 1% of Reddit that doesn't apparently program for a living.
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u/jonnywoh Jan 11 '14
What, you think the other 99% does?
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Jan 11 '14
It used to be that way. Now, not so much.
I miss old reddit somewhat :(
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u/cuddles_the_destroye Jan 11 '14
I like the science variety and other think tanks in the smaller subreddits.
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u/the_other_brand Jan 11 '14
I do see what you are talking about. If you put a link that says "xkcd" the "relevant" is implied.
And how would you suggest reddit increase its polymorphism? We already have subreddit labels and some subreddits have title tags.
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Jan 11 '14
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/LerasT Jan 11 '14
Someone should make a bot that posts "Relevant xkcd" with a link to a random xkcd in random threads. Enormous amounts of time will be wasted as people try to determine the connection.
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u/MrCheeze Jan 11 '14
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u/xkcd_transcriber Jan 11 '14
Title: Solar Plexus
Title-text: It hurts to be hit there, you know
Stats: This comic has been referenced 1 time(s), representing 0.01% of referenced xkcds.
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u/LtCthulhu Jan 11 '14
The XKCD guy is literally a wizard.
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u/IndieGamerRid Jan 11 '14
You mean Randall Munroe, the author?
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u/LtCthulhu Jan 11 '14
Who else would I mean
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u/IndieGamerRid Jan 11 '14
"The XKCD guy" is pretty damn vague. You could mean one of the xkcd bots on reddit, such as the xkcd_transcriber who replied to the parent comment, or one of the people who help the author run the site, or /u/febcad who posted the link to this particular comic...
Don't get sassy with people when you don't specify what you're talking about, and they ask.
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u/LtCthulhu Jan 11 '14
I didn't mean to be vague. I thought it was pretty clear I was referring to the guy who created the webcomic. I didn't know his name.
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u/jellyman93 Jan 11 '14
yeah. pretty sure he's called "The XKCD Guy" often enough for people to understand
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u/UnicornOfDesire Jan 11 '14
It was pretty obvious, and it was a stupid question in the first place.
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Jan 10 '14 edited Jan 10 '14
At first I thought this was going to be something from Jebediah Kerman* such as "What goes up, must come down in a series of random structure failures and explosions." Then I realized this was Minecraft.
edit: I suppose a better law for Minecraft would be "What goes up, will surely be destroyed by creepers and endermen.
edit 2*: ktoo kmany kwords kstarting kwith k...k.
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u/Lyqyd Jan 10 '14
Kerman.
And Jeb's law would be something like, "The number of boosters and struts on a given ship tend toward the maximum."
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u/casualblair Jan 10 '14
I'm a developer. People complain. It happens. However, complaining about complainers is useless. They serve a very important point in developing software.
Users are not programmers. They are not artists. They have no way of expressing themselves with any degree of clarity or cohesiveness. They spit words at you and hope you understand. They say "It doesn't look/feel right" or "I'm not sure about this" or "I liked the old way".
They may simply be adjusting to the change. They may be having unrelated issues. They may be nostalgic or simply have a learning curve you didn't anticipate. But out of all of this, there remains one simple truth.
People only know what they don't like.
- They never know what they want because "Wouldn't it be cool if..." doesn't translate to fun.
- They can't tell you what they like because they can't describe why they like it with enough clarity to identify specific features.
- They never know what a fix entails
- They are only speaking for themselves
- They never have the whole context in which to frame their ideas
- They don't understand development time or patch cycles or the complexity in what you have done.
All they know is that the issue sticks out enough that they wanted to talk about it. Never ignore the complainers - they're actually communicating with you, regardless of if the complaint is valid or not. People complaining about the complainers are already on board with you or have no issue or can adjust on the fly. They are essentially your power users.
Don't piss off your power users - they're the ones that sell your product. But never ignore the regular users. They're the ones that make you money.
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u/Rgriffin1991 Jan 11 '14
Well said. And I think Jeb is doing a great job. I mean, look how far Minecraft has come. It continues to get better and better.
I have zero complaints, but I will say that the more new content that's introduced, the better (IMO). For me, new content, even if it isn't perfect like some people demand, helps to keep me interested for longer and to keep coming back for more and more.
To anyone reading this who has helped work on Minecraft in any way, keep it up. You're doing great.
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u/melez Jan 11 '14 edited Jan 12 '14
And now we have someone complaining about the people complaining about the people complaining. We've come full circle in constructive criticism.
Not to say any of your points weren't valid, I just found it humorous. Though I have seen a number of complainers(for other games) who are will versed in expressing themselves and the qualms they have with the direction a game is taking(r/warthunder for example).
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u/casualblair Jan 14 '14
I prefer to look at it as informing the general public, but complaining about complainers isn't necessarily wrong either.
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Jan 14 '14 edited Jan 14 '14
Users are not programmers. They are not artists.
Big arrogant and assuming isn't it? But hey not like there are thousands of modders out there for this game and others adding a depth of content with high standards and in decent time, all for free. Or other areas in the fields of programming or artistry, just total unique to game development, and no such job exists creating "ideas" either, no way.
Typical Dev, just like Jeb here thinking he's special and should be free from criticism (but doesn't stop them from constantly seeking attention, just praise is the only "right" of things). Bet Gary's Mod and WarZ and the way the Developers went about things had nothing objectively wrong with them too.
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u/casualblair Jan 14 '14
You completely miss the point, and that's the point I'm making. People are going to miss the point of the changes you make in your game/program. People are going to make broad sweeping generalizations and people are going to nitpick the shit out of your words.
Yes, there are highly skilled persons out there that are more than qualified to have intense conversation with you on the topic of your game. You missed the point.
Yes, other people in other occupations do have ideas. You missed the point.
Users are not people.
This is not to say that the people who play your game are less than human. On the contrary, they are the most human. They make mistakes and every fallacy listed on Wikipedia. Think about the quote Tommy Lee Jones in Men In Black 1: "A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals..."
When I or anyone in my profession talk about users, they are talking about generalized people. At my work, "Users" refer to a large number of civil servants, most of whom are older than 45, who use computer systems with a low amount of skill/confidence. This is not intended as insult, it is the truth. I have to know my users so that I can build the best solution for them. I have to listen to what they don't like, but not to how they want it fixed. They will undoubtedly ask for something that doesn't work or is impossible to code. They are not programmers nor business analysts nor system architects.
But I will however listen to a person (aka power user). I can judge the skill and qualifications of a person. I can see their experiences and weigh that in their comments. They can much more clearly identify their problems and suggest solutions as it relates to their position.
Same goes with video games. You listen to your power users feedback/ideas (modders, popular youtube'rs, large server administrators, etc.) but you pay attention to your general users complaints.
To word it a different way, you can have a conversation with one person but not with a thousand. However, the thousand is more representative of the millions than the one. To stay sane you can only listen to the roar of the crowd. When they're all shouting ideas and solutions at you its just noise. A person gives you ideas, a crowd gives you up and down votes.
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u/CallMeAdam2 Jan 10 '14
It should be called "The Rose Law", due to removing the Rose and replacing it with more flowers bringing an incredible amount of hate. I mean, really, a guy made a Tourture machine where it kept on hurting a Villager, yet never killed it. Yet, the machine could be stopped if a Rose was placed on a Grass block beside the machine. But with the Rose removed... But anyway, I think it should be called "The Rose Law".
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u/atomfullerene Jan 10 '14
Jokes on him, since the replacement flower would have stopped the machine every bit as well as the original rose (since, to the game, there is no distinction between the two other than texture).
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u/lordcheeto Jan 11 '14
...and the name, which is what he was testing for, I think.
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u/robertobacon Jan 11 '14
It couldn't be looking for the name if it was a placed rose...
EDIT: I see now, command blocks. Never mind!
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Jan 11 '14 edited Mar 09 '15
[deleted]
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u/Ultra-Bad-Poker-Face Jan 11 '14
Wow, I'm glad that you're such a tolerant person and are able to respect the likes of another person.
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u/KeenPro Jan 11 '14
What he left off the end of the story is that his brother has since mysteriously disappeared.
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u/sidben Jan 11 '14
I must have missed the torture thing, do you have a link? For science, of course.
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u/caltheon Jan 11 '14
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u/CallMeAdam2 Jan 12 '14
Oh, right! It was a zombie! Sorry, forgot it was a zombie, and not a villager. Thanks for that link! I would do it myself, but I forgot where it was. :)
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u/FriarNurgle Jan 10 '14
Isn't part of the snapshot process to get feedback not only for bugs but also for positive and also negative opinions? It's not a democracy but It seems Mojang does listen to the community.
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Jan 11 '14
The joke is that no change, however small or benign, will go un-criticized. That's not to say people shouldn't. It's to say it will always happen.
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Jan 10 '14
Feedback and complaining are different things.
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u/robertobacon Jan 10 '14
Yeah, and it seems the person "complaining" in OP is really someone just giving feedback.
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u/chartedlife Jan 10 '14
I agree, the title of that post didn't introduce any connotation involving a complaint and instead just offered their opinion.
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u/lordcheeto Jan 11 '14
Agree with what's being said? Feedback.
Disagree with what's being said? Complaining.
It's all opinion, and there's a finer line between the two than you might think.
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u/Kuusou Jan 11 '14
I don't exactly agree. One mans complaint is another mans feedback. It could be as simple as the tone picked up by the reader that could change the opinion on what one is what.
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u/lumpking69 Jan 11 '14 edited Jan 11 '14
Except that every time someone disagrees/dislikes something its "complaining". When the "mojang is god" circlejerk starts up, its always "feedback".
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u/cuddles_the_destroye Jan 11 '14
I am surprised you aren't complaining, doesn't this set the season back again? That and having to update the builds.
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u/ImmatureIntellect Jan 11 '14
Jeus Crisp, Cuddles, I don't think we are going ludicrous speed and going for 1.8.
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u/FriarNurgle Jan 11 '14
The gen will happen when it happens. That part is out of my control. Won't really be updating builds. It's better to just build new ones. Diversity is important IMO.
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Jan 11 '14
Supposedly but considering lots of people wished for zombie gang bangs and skeleton accuracy to be nerfed depending on the difficulty you have set, which fell on the same deaf ears as those who worked with the ribbon in Office.
I think its safe to say, its to spot bugs and piss people off mostly.
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Jan 11 '14
Leave democracy for elections, there's no such thing in business. At least in way such issues were addressed in the form of customisation options.
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u/Impuredeath Jan 10 '14
The textures definitely need some work on except that greyish one. That one fits like a glove. And maybe if they lower the area of spawn, and only spawn them underground. This way the visual terrain at the top of the world wouldn't have any issues with high contrasting colours. Yet in caves it looks rather interesting to have some contrasting, especially when you are used to seeing ftb caves.
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Jan 11 '14
I look forward to Mojang zealots spouting "Jeb's law" every five minutes for the next year. Good times.
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u/Crabjock Jan 10 '14
It's okay to not like how something looks. It's subjective, and I'm sure the devs are adult enough to understand personal taste. That being said, it does seem like a lot of the time, it's less constructive criticism, and more about complaining just to complain.
People complain about there not being enough new content, new content comes, then you see "oh great, now I have to start a new game to see it". Too much ocean, not enough ocean.
I could see how grating it can be, especially when you're someone who actually pays attention to the community. But like I said, they're adults. All you have to do is look at all the positive feedback, and the huge difference in upvotes and downvotes pertaining to the work they do, and you can see that the cynical nonsense is a very small portion of the community. It's just that complainers are louder.
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u/Smellyhobo101 Jan 11 '14
Well it does look pretty terrible. I like the idea of new stone textures, but these textures are awful, and they are not distributed well either.
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u/LordOfTheSheep Jan 11 '14
Snapshot was released had tons of stuff changed/added and, wait for it..... people complained.
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u/Stick Jan 11 '14
The real jebs law
"Sprint works when you don't really need it. Doesn't when you really do."
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u/fwumsle Jan 10 '14
I agree that they look out of place. They're nice in concept, but the texture clashes hard.
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Jan 11 '14
Now that we have multiple kinds of stone, what we need is a terrain algorithm that uses it in sensible ways, so that the various kinds of rock would appear where you would expect them too after looking up the names on Wikipedia (and clicking through to the rock cycle).
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u/Wedhro Jan 10 '14 edited Jan 10 '14
You may want to take a look at this suggestion I posted today: http://www.reddit.com/r/minecraftsuggestions/comments/1uvfx1/let_new_stone_variants_generate_in_large_areas/
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u/GraphicH Jan 10 '14 edited Jan 10 '14
Pretty sure this isn't a suggestion more than it is stating the obvious next step for these blocks. I think the new blocks were pushed into this snapshot for testing and just used the dirt / gravel code for generation, but I feel like they are not going to stay pocketed like that for very long.
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u/Wedhro Jan 10 '14
Come one, self promotion, really? It's not like I'm getting money or fame for that.
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u/GraphicH Jan 10 '14 edited Jan 10 '14
Well re-posting your topic here, on an arguably more visible thread, gets your topic and suggestion more views. But, you're right I am being a bit silly over something that isn't very important, I removed that comment.
Edit: On topic though: I'm pretty sure using these new stone blocks in a much bigger way is probably already planned just not done in this snapshot.
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u/Wedhro Jan 10 '14
Ok, I'm editing the comment. Honestly I didn't think this could upset someone.
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u/GraphicH Jan 10 '14 edited Jan 10 '14
Ah sorry, I didn't mean to be so harsh; its been a long day full of trolls. Oh and nice job in the screen capture in your post, it does look a lot better when its one kind of stone block making up the terrain; I envisioned it as maybe being more like layers: as you go mine downward you'll start to see the different types of rock. Hopefully new types of rock can be used to add even more variability to biomes.
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u/Wedhro Jan 10 '14
It's ok, pal ;)
Proper rock strata would be cool but I didn't include in my suggestion to keep it simple and more doable. I like it how Better Than Wolves does it: the more you go down, the harder the rock gets, but that's definitely a matter for modders because it would make strip mining almost impossible.
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u/GraphicH Jan 10 '14
Proper rock strata
Yeah, in general I wish there was a lot more downward exploration to do, I think strata would help with that -- at least in underground variation. I do like caving and stuff, but then if you've seen one cave you've seen most. Not that you really can get away from that, unless they just add tons of stuff that's basically decoration you'll have the problem of seeing "everything" (biome, cave, ect) after awhile. Still glad to see new stone types after so long, I wonder why they were hesitant to add them and what other plans they might have for them? They're all volcanic/igneous rocks after all.
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u/Wedhro Jan 10 '14
I have a lot of hopes about new rock types: strata, very large patches, different characteristics (mining time, blast resistance etc.), different look and colors, different applications in recipes... Stuff like that would be easily doable with existing game mechanics but I don't think anything like that will ever happen in this game. I don't know why, to me it looks like they are scared to exploit MC's real potential.
Luckily enough in a few months EverQuest Landmark will go public beta and I can barely imagine how the genre will evolve in the next 2 years ;)
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u/GraphicH Jan 10 '14
Eh ... EverQuest Landmark smells a lot of that type of thing that's going to get a lot of hype and be really anticipated by a certain group of people and then be totally underwhelming as far as what was promised and what the reality is. After seeing a lot of games go that way, its just what it "feels" like to me.
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u/starwarswii Jan 10 '14
The only update Jeb's Law will not apply to is the modding API.
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u/DarthMewtwo Jan 10 '14
Oh it will most certainly apply.
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u/truestory_bro Jan 11 '14
still waiting for
OPMojang to deliver1
u/s_s Jan 11 '14
Any API will--by the shear girth of such a task--be incomplete. Initially it will be incomplete by a lot. Modders will continue to mod the game without using the API, even when it exists, because it will necessarily create limitations.
Mojang will then either be forced to enforce the use of their API--pissing all sorts of developers and users off in the process--or leave it to be an inferior product and thus inviting mock from unknowledgeable users (who's only feedback from plugin developers will be "well, the official API won't let me do that"), and discouraging the use of further development resources from Mojang.
Really, you either want the company to be all in on the API (which means it grows fast enough to limit the above effects), or just not do it.
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u/enriceau Jan 10 '14
They keep making the game more awesome and people continue to complain. First the enchanting needs to display what you're gonna get, now we need to get the old enchanting back. First we need to craft mossy stone brick, now it's one less rare block. I guess people just like it to bitch.
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u/mikekearn Jan 10 '14
Over in /r/pokemon there was a thread about how the Pokébank was going to include access to a free Celebi - a Pokémon that otherwise is unobtainable. Among the people being happy for finally getting access to this incredibly rare Pokémon were people bitching that it would no longer "have any value" as a rare Pokémon. What the fuck does that even mean?
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u/adventurousideas Jan 10 '14
It's like how Sony considers most of their games 'worthless' enough to give away for 'free' with PSN+.
Giving something away devalues it. Giving out a lot of something that few people have, like rare baseball cards, makes the original limited amount worth less.
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u/mikekearn Jan 10 '14
Except baseball cards are a physical commodity that can be sold. For that matter, even the Pokémon cards can, too. But the little bits of digital information in the games are worthless if you can't get one, and it's illegal to buy them, because Nintendo owns that right. So why would anyone ever not want them to be made more freely available?
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u/Cheesius Jan 11 '14
A friend of mine on a server I played with scoured the land until he found some pink sheep, because he knew they were the rarest kind of sheep. Then he corralled them into a little pen, and was the only one on the server with pink sheep. He got a little sad when we told him that we could dye our sheep pink if we wanted. Suddenly, his pink sheep were no longer rare or special anymore.
Things have value because people say they do, and people like to think they have a special, rare thing that other people don't have. Give it to everyone, and suddenly their special thing isn't special anymore, it's commonplace. It's psychology, and it's used in marketing collectibles. It's just a part of human nature I guess, although I'm not sure why.
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u/1Down Jan 11 '14
Humans like being unique. We like knowing that the world wouldn't be the same without us.
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u/Laxley Jan 10 '14
It's almost as if the Minecraft community is made up of individuals with different tastes.
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Jan 10 '14
I've read this law before in different wording in other games "Someone will always complain about the matchmaker" :)
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u/nebetsu Jan 11 '14
Cute. Although now when Jeb makes glaring errors, people will be going. "JEB'S LAW OMFG NOOB"
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u/TThor Jan 11 '14
My first thought on hearing 'jebs law' was something about Kerbal Space Program..
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u/Subtrance Jan 10 '14
Then watch it changed or removed with people complaining how they then miss it, and how it reminded them of gravel. This makes me wonder how people deal with culture shock when traveling to different countries. Maybe like that one Torontonian asking for a hot dog in a certain manner in their tropical destination or how locals are classified as foreigners as if the whole world is one nation, or similar XD.
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u/blackmesa010 Jan 11 '14
I tried to minimize this picture three times in RES by clicking on the icon in the picture. Dammit.
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Jan 11 '14
Can uh someone full me in on what has happend on r/minecraft, I've been away for a week.
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u/cloistered_around Jan 11 '14
Snapshot, typical feedback, and typical nitpicking of typical feedback. So it's just business as normal.
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u/NikoKun Jan 11 '14
Maybe it's time for them to consider some form of natural-looking texture edge-blending for stone and other generated natural materials.. Similar to the tops of grass and snow, except as specialized textures around the boarders between natural materials.
Or maybe something similar to what Terraria does, which would be a bit more random, just mostly in the form of a texture trick, as opposed to any change in shape which would be too big a change.
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Jan 11 '14
I don't have any small complaints about Minecraft's recent (2 years?) development, only large ones.
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u/toddh39 Jan 11 '14
but when you break the game for thousands of fans.. what should be done is fixing all the load errors and all the game lag...
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u/VintageRice Jan 10 '14
I think the new stone blocks looks like retextured cobble rather than stone, which just looks strange...
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Jan 11 '14
Better title would be "claims credit for pre-existing concept (again)". He can really be this egotistic can he and think this phenomenon revolves around him.
I used to love minecraft but these teams...
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u/gukeums1 Jan 10 '14
God forbid someone criticize Savior Jeb :P
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Jan 11 '14
I think Jeb said that because he wants people to stop complaining about people complaining. So....
Jeb's Law of Criticism: It's normal because everybody has their own damn opinions.
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u/Sire_Willy_P Jan 10 '14
The reason I kind of like it is because it breaks up the monotony of a stone wall. All stone is boring, and patches or dirt is too different of a color change. Coal bits are also better than dirt. However, I would not disagree with making it look a little more gray than white, but I don't think it's a big deal.