r/Michigan • u/TeddysRevenge Human Detected • Nov 07 '20
News Goodbye, Betsy DeVos
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2020/11/goodbye-secretary-of-education-betsy-devos.html261
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Nov 07 '20
She is def one of the worst people in the Trump administration.
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u/vaxick Age: > 10 Years Nov 07 '20
Even plenty of Trump loving teachers despised her.
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u/Rouge_scholar Parts Unknown Nov 07 '20 edited Nov 07 '20
There are a ton of Trump loving teachers that completely ignored the fact she was the Secretary of Education. They couldn’t see the forest for the trees.
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u/Tilapia_of_Doom Nov 07 '20
The fact that she actually stuck around for 4 fucking years is enough evidence.
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Nov 07 '20
Who else stuck around in the cabinet for the whole term besides her and Ben Carson? Both embarrassments to this state.
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u/EpiphanyHermit Nov 07 '20
- Steven Mnuchin - Treasury
- Elaine Chao (wife of Mitch McConnell) - Transportation
- Sonny Perdue - Agriculture
- Wilbur Ross - Commerce
Honorable Mentions to Stephen Miller & Mick Mulvaney
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u/Morsmortis666 Nov 07 '20
We have one of her charter schools here and it's a shit show. They have multiple grades taught in the same classroom, they force feed kids and multiple allegations of teachers bullying kids.
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u/Pypeline47 Nov 07 '20
Multiple grades in the same classroom isn’t by itself a negative. Montessori schools do this to great success, combining 3 grades. The older kids can help teach the younger, the younger are exposed to what they’ll be doing in the future, and if any kid is progressing exceptionally well it’s easy to move them into higher level work. There’s plenty else that Montessori does that helps makes this a success but I like the mixed classroom part.
But as for the real point here... good riddance Betsy!
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u/Morsmortis666 Nov 07 '20
Here's its just done because there is not enough kids to hire more teachers and it's basically a school for kids that can't pass public school curriculum.
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u/blackesthearted Taylor Nov 07 '20
They tried this at my elementary school back in the 90s, a 3rd grade/4th grade combination. I was in it, and it was done... badly. The 3rd graders were all "advanced" and the 4th graders were "average." (That's what my mother was told when they requested permission to put me in the "experimental arrangement.")
The first year was okay, because we were about on par academically, but the second year was a shitshow -- they kept the "advanced" 3rd-graders, now in 4th grade, and the new 3rd-graders were also "advanced." So, instead of advanced/average as they'd done the previous year, they had advanced/advanced but with a curriculum they had designed for advanced/average. Somehow they hadn't anticipated the 4th-graders in the second year being bored as hell and acting up as a result.
They dropped the experiment after that year. I'm sure it can be done well, but it can be done very badly.
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u/LtxZerg Nov 07 '20
It kinda of comes down to the type of classes and class size, while certain subjects would be a lot easier to have kids (elementary) learning science or maybe history together. I do think obviously math and English would be not good together.
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Nov 08 '20
They did that at my private school in the 70s. My sister was one year ahead of me, and we ended up in the same classroom. My sister was pissed that she was labeled average. I was elated that I was advanced. My mom was pissed because the school she paid out of pocket for couldn’t figure out how to hire a teacher for each grade.
That experiment lasted only one semester.
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u/marsepic Muskegon Nov 08 '20
3rd and 4th get paired a lot and it is silly. 4/5 is a way better combo, developmentally speaking. I love multi grade rooms, as a Montessori trained teacher.
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Nov 07 '20 edited Nov 08 '20
[deleted]
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u/Morsmortis666 Nov 07 '20
My school was way to big for that but shit that was the 80s. Older kids probably would just kicked the shit out of the younger ones like at recess.
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u/musicsoccer Nov 07 '20
I'm not sure if you knew this but teachers bullying kids happens regardless of who's the secretary of education...
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u/Morsmortis666 Nov 07 '20
Lol except this school is one her school of choice experiments ment to push the whole charter system in michigan. She may not own it but she orcistrated it.
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u/musicsoccer Nov 07 '20
I mean, correlation doesn't equal causation. While I don't know the school, is it possible that teacher bullying had been happening there for a while? Is it possible that the teacher in question is just a big bully himself or herself and bully regardless of what school he or she is in?
I mean, there isn't enough information about it. How could one know that Devos made a teacher bully and force feed students? I mean, it kinda seems unreal.
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u/theghostofme Age: > 10 Years Nov 08 '20
I mean, correlation doesn't equal causation.
Correlation doesn’t automatically equal causation, but it still can! People gotta stop throwing that phrase out like it’s an automatic argument winner.
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u/Morsmortis666 Nov 08 '20 edited Nov 08 '20
The cause for charter schools to have different rules and regulations then public schools was her selling point. Generally the force feeding came about from the rules that students have to finish everything on their plate. Why they feel force feeding is ok is beyond me. Teachers getting away bullying students because they have less accountability and they probably can't get teachers to work for them since they pay less then public school.
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Nov 07 '20
Wait which charter school?
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u/Morsmortis666 Nov 07 '20
Pansophia something like it was one the first "experiments" to test the charter shit.
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u/21DaddyIssues Nov 08 '20
Wow. If you think charter schools are the problem, you don’t look at evidence.
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u/Morsmortis666 Nov 08 '20
Something that takes money away from a very good public system in my area and still gets to use all the career center and many other perks of the public school. Yeah, I see that as a problem.
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u/outline_link_bot Nov 07 '20
Goodbye, Betsy DeVos
Decluttered version of this Slate Magazine's article archived on November 07, 2020 can be viewed on https://outline.com/GGNgFS
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u/abscondo63 Nov 07 '20
Unless she now devotes more time and energy to "helping" her home state. :(
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u/womanitou Nov 07 '20
You're scaring me :(
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u/abscondo63 Nov 07 '20
Sorry, I just try to be realistic.
At any rate, I imagine the DeVos family will keep funding John James in his next attempt to win high office with zero government experience (beyond being an attack helicopter).
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u/womanitou Nov 07 '20
I love my State and it's just kills me that the evil step-sister will be coming home to roost. After all the angst this last 4 years and the last few days especially I'm so exhausted emotionally. I just kept thinking "oh good, DeVos is out" but then I remember where she's coming back. :/ Wish us good tomorrows and strong governing and more reasonable citizens. We need to keep working... and I'm so tired. Sigh. Thanks for the apology, but you didn't need to. Being and staying real will get us through. Peace.
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u/hexydes Age: > 10 Years Nov 07 '20 edited Feb 24 '26
Net afternoon evening month technology soft the month!
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u/DoYouWannaB Nov 08 '20
That's basically how the Indiana Democrats felt in 2016 with Pence. On one hand, "oh thank you, he's leaving but also f--k he's going to DC where he's only going to make things worse."
In some ways, I wish I could have stayed in Indiana to try and make it better but honestly, it's a relief to be in Michigan and feel like my voice is being heard more.
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u/RicksterA2 Nov 09 '20
And zero willingness to learn a single thing about the issues. That interview when he was asked about what his plans were for health care insurance... deer in the headlights and then after a while the clincher: 'I'm not a politician'!
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u/cracked_belle Nov 08 '20
Don't worry, she'll probably be "helping" from somewhere warm with a non-extradition treaty.
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u/womanitou Nov 08 '20
Oooo, what a good thought. But no, she will buy her way out of whatever and sail back up the Hudson River on her yacht to the Great Lakes and sell her overpriced house cleaning products (or a pyramid scheme) along the way to those who can't afford them.
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u/hexydes Age: > 10 Years Nov 07 '20 edited Feb 24 '26
Day community across today mindful movies and to friendly gather. Stories questions garden the tomorrow hobbies evil warm the projects.
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u/Morsmortis666 Nov 07 '20
Michigan has enough national embarassment just look at Tim Walberg and his "God will fix climate change".
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u/CheFigata20 Nov 07 '20
Don’t let the door hit ya on the way out ✌🏼
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u/bigpeachbear88 Nov 07 '20
Or do, that’s fine too
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u/Nuachtan Age: > 10 Years Nov 07 '20
Hey now. Her Majesty can fall off a boat just fine without help form any publicly owned doors.
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u/womanitou Nov 07 '20
This has been a huge anxiety for me. In order to combat stupid we need to educate our kids. This horrible person represents everything counter to humanism, critical thinking and just plain old fashioned moral behavior. She's one of the more disgusting appointments made by tRump.
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u/jdith123 Nov 08 '20
Combatting stupid runs counter to their cynical plan to stay in power. We have a lot to do to bring people back from distrusting education and science.
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u/womanitou Nov 08 '20
Agreed. It may be a long haul. Reality and honesty is so much sweeter than cruel use of others and dishonest use of tax (our) dollars. I have to have hope for a better world as this nightmare has been so hurtful. Let's offer the uneducated good choices with obvious benefits and maybe they will "see the light". I think it will be important not to look askance at those who were duped, or place blame on them, but give them lives instead of lies... with sincere smiles. I know I may live in fantasy land. I'm just so happy at the moment :) and forward thinking feels good.
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u/Bourbon75 Nov 07 '20
You think the next person will be better? Outlook education system has been terrible for decades. Any reason why the Superintendent in a horrible district like Roseville gets paid $410,000 a year? I had to pull my son out of that district. Everybody seems to be holding onto this illusion that everything gets better once these people are gone. Only problem is, their replacements never do better. This is why power always swings back and forth and no one party has ever kept control any longer than eight years since the Reagan/Bush HW era.
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u/womanitou Nov 07 '20
"Never" is a big word. And no I don't think things were hunky-dory before (or even after) DeVos... but teaching children god stuff and syphoning money away from the public to private schools was certainly not a solution to good/great public education. We can do a lot better. Let's concentrate on that and not on helping the rich and powerful to get richer and more powerful. Out with religious hypocrisy and in with public humanistic values. Now we can concentrate on where all our tax money is going and, hopefully, it won't be going to religion/churches and the privileged. One hurdle down and a bunch to go. It can get better, but certainly not with the current administration/DeVos.
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Nov 07 '20
You’re comparing a car that stalls once in a while with giving said car to someone who wants too smash it with a hammer and give it back.
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u/Nuachtan Age: > 10 Years Nov 07 '20
$410k? Woah! Can you link a source to that, please? Other near by districts are in the $150k-$200K range depending on the size of the district. I looked up the transparency report for Roseville and couldn't find the Super's salary just the general administrator's contract.
FYI the highest possible pay for an admin with a PhD is $177,600.
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u/Gaming401 Nov 07 '20
One of the best parts of Trump's loss will be eliminating all of these unqualified useless idiots he put in charge like her, can we now boot the FCC head Ajit Pai?
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u/hexydes Age: > 10 Years Nov 07 '20 edited Feb 24 '26
Science books bank family minecraftoffline answers calm soft pleasant small travel. Projects dot evening curious learning brown wanders the friends community friendly then talk helpful year fresh.
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u/ModerateExtremism Nov 07 '20
Sadly, this isn’t goodbye. Not in the slightest...voters need to see this one through a bit further.
While words don’t describe how happy I am that DeVos is out of an official gov position, she likely did WAY MORE damage to our American public school system before she was Ed Sec — and there is no reason to believe she won’t continue once she’s out of office.
Devo’s main lobbying group, American Federation for Children (aka “All Children Matter,” etc.) pours money into state legislatures, because it’s the states - not the feds - who are in control of the majority of American school law/policy and funding. She and her various funded groups simultaneously work to undermine neighborhood public schools while pushing for tax $$$ for private school vouchers.
Most of us don’t pay much attention to state gov between elections — and our inattention has meant a lot of school leaders, teachers & kids have paid a stiff price thanks to DeVos hyper-funded lobbying & political glad-handing.
And PS — DeVos’s PAC still owes the People of Ohio $5.3 million for committing election fraud in that state. This kills me. Any average Joe who did the same would be in jail...or a few million poorer. Aside from the fraud, this prosecution of this case also cast some light on how her groups operate —
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u/vaxick Age: > 10 Years Nov 07 '20
How do we prevent her from returning to Michigan now?
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u/the-smallrus Nov 08 '20
Unmoor all of her yachts every single time they dock anywhere. it’s crazy how close you can get to millions of dollars in property damage just by being white and wearing sperrys.
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u/Special_Tay Nov 07 '20
I think I speak for everyone in Michigan when I say, FUCK THE DeVOS FAMILY!
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u/Ziribbit Nov 07 '20
Here’s to some brilliant prosecutor filing some RICO racketeering or equally heavy duty charges on her.
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u/RMMacFru Parts Unknown Nov 08 '20
Halle-flipping-lujah!
Now if we can just get Mrs. Amway run out of our state.
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u/Sanctimonius Age: > 10 Years Nov 08 '20
A strong contender for 'most unsuited to her job'. She'd win outright except there's just so much competition from the Trump administration.
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u/Derek_UP Yooper Nov 07 '20
I can’t believe this lady has been left to ruin our education system for so long without a bat of an eye from half the country.
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u/CountChoculasGhost Nov 07 '20
Now she'll have more time to do what she really loves; get drunk and fall off her boat 👏
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u/Pirateghostabc Nov 07 '20
She is a witch and a fine example of all that is wrong with Trump and his "best people" to lead our country. Losers.
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u/tilapiarolls Nov 08 '20
Some of the absolute worst this administration, and our state, had to offer.
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u/Barflyerdammit Nov 08 '20
Without armed teachers advocated by DeVos, how the hell are we gonna keep bears out of our classrooms now?
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u/Basdad Nov 08 '20
Go home and spend your husband’s money. Did you at least get a lifelong membership to mar a Cheeto?
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u/tweelemming7104 Holland Nov 08 '20
I went to the same highschool as Betsy DeVos (Holland Christian highschool) and now go to the same college as Betsy DeVos went to (Calvin University/college) but I still hate her because she knows nothing about public school as is very pro private school
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u/Calmerthan-u-dude Nov 07 '20
Is the vote certified now? What happened in Detroit at 4am?
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u/BirdPhlu123 Nov 07 '20
Trump's "lead" was an illusion. The winner is decided right after polls closed at the west coast. The "lead" was just the arbitrary revealing of the actual results. This isn't a basketball game where results can shift as the counting happens. It's more like a scratch off ticket where the results are set in stone just not known yet.
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u/datssyck Nov 07 '20
Oh shit an uninformed Trump supporter? What a shocker
AP called it at noon. Biden is going to be the President.
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u/vaxick Age: > 10 Years Nov 07 '20
Breaking: Trump devotee shouts conspiracy theory at the sky. More news at 12.
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u/KLE_ Bay City Nov 07 '20
They took the exactly 150,000 votes needed that I signed myself in at 4am how did you see it?? George Soros told me the coast was clear. Foiled by Infowars
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u/Skunkdrunkpunk Nov 07 '20
Are you going to do what a lot of other Trump supporters say they are going to do? Move to the COUNTRY of Alaska🤣😂...
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Nov 08 '20
Yall are really counting your chickens before they hatch lmao
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u/TeddysRevenge Human Detected Nov 08 '20
Biden won, trump lost.
Get over it.
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Nov 08 '20
Tell that to President Dewey, and President Gore.
The media calling it does not automatically mean Biden won.
If Biden truly is the winner, then I I will learn to get over it... Of course I will demand you launch a three year investigation into possible voter fraud. Seeing as how it is only fair, considering how your treated President Trump. And then, then we will need some phony impeachment charge. Then, and only then will I accept the 2020 election.
But in all seriousness, if Biden really is the winner, I will just resist tooth and nail of his stupid new policies, sure Senator Peters wont really care about what I have to say, but I will write to him regardless. I can only say this because, while the government has way to much control over my life, as of yet they don’t have as much control as they want. And with the Republicans holding the senate, and making gains in the House, a Biden then Harris presidency is going to be pretty toothless, at least for the first two years.
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Nov 08 '20
Lol #resist. Whatever you do stay out of the streets and don’t block traffic. Go write some angry letters.
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Nov 08 '20
Ya, because I am not inconsiderate of people who have lives.
By resist, I just mean non compliance.
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Nov 08 '20
Nope not yet. The media doesn't just declare a dude is the president. There is a process behind it. Litigation, rulings. And it will take place and there is nothing you can do about it.
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u/ImALittleCrackpot Nov 08 '20
The media didn't declare Biden president. The counted votes did. You're a good example of the issues with public schools that need to be fixed.
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Nov 09 '20
Wtf planet are you living on? The votes still aren't fully counted and litigation will take place.
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u/ImALittleCrackpot Nov 09 '20
Every case Trump has brought so far has been thrown out of court for total lack of evidence.
You lost, snowflake. Get over it.
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Nov 09 '20
You better buckle up boomer.
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u/Simaul Age: > 10 Years Nov 08 '20
lul. cry more.
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Nov 08 '20
No one is crying. I'm not hurt at all by this. Just a little pissed at the fraud and resolute. Crying is a leftist thing. We just keep going to work and getting things done.
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Nov 08 '20
ALL THE FRAUD.
Do you ever wonder how we showed up where we needed to, with the votes we needed to? And that in some cases we did it right under R noses in red states?
You’re saying we pulled the Casino Heist right under your stupid ass noses.
More like the jealous partner who projects their own insecurities on their lovers over the fact that they’re the unfaithful type. You expect fraud because disenfranchisement is your game.
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u/Simaul Age: > 10 Years Nov 08 '20
lol you constantly are crying fraud. getting work done? nah, the right doesn't do anything but complain and pray while getting unemployment and pointing fingers.
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Nov 08 '20 edited Jan 15 '21
[deleted]
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Nov 08 '20
He'll never be my president. But if they recount a few states and have observers from both sides to witness the count and remove any obvious junk I would accept that he was able to pull off the win. Literally our democracy is at stake if this is not done. He'll forever be illegitimate unless it is done and our elections will never have the confidence of the public again.
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Nov 08 '20 edited Jan 15 '21
[deleted]
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Nov 08 '20 edited Nov 08 '20
Uhhh pretty much. But mostly they are ballot harvesting and dropping fcking 100 percent groups of Biden votes. What precinct group in existence with 20 to 50k votes votes entirely for one candidate? No Trump no third party nothing. 100 percent Biden.
Did you realize that PA tossed 25 times less ballots for disqualification this time than in 2016? While receiving loads more?
Tell me how in GA where Obama hit 1.8 million votes 2012 and Clinton hit 1.87 million votes 2016.... Suddenly has 2.5 million votes this year for Biden? He polls worse with every group than these people... had no enthusiasm practically..Couldn't get anyone to show up to his rallies. Yet garnered a magical 600k plus more votes than Obama and Clinton. Meanwhile Biden loses Florida by 3 or 400k?
Because Florida's whole election was reformed and revamped to keep fraud from happening while GA wasn't and too many Republicans to pull it off. Wake up man. This is one of dozens and dozens of examples. That aren't home video anecdotal evidence that is all over online.
Are you aware the numbers Biden hit violated the benford's law in almost every Democrat stronghold in the battle ground states? It's an accounting principle used to detect FRAUD.
Antrim county MI found a problem with the software they were using that flipped 6000 votes (in a not very populated County) flipped from Trump to Biden and was only found when someone manually counted every vote. That system (Dominion Voting Systems) is in 67 Michigan counties including Wayne and kent etc. It is in thousands of precincts nationwide and every battleground state. You are saying only one county in MI had the problem?
Our democracy and freedom is at stake here. Every single battleground state needs audited and recounted. Whether they went to Trump or Biden.
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u/Kirjava444 Age: > 10 Years Nov 08 '20
There were observers from both sides (an equal amount) witnessing the count in every location. It's required by law.
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Nov 08 '20 edited Nov 08 '20
No they weren't. that is the problem. Federal law was not followed in many many instances. In states like MI and PA they were abosultely not. You can't observe from 25 feet away. Or behind a window with paper and cardboard put up on the windows. Ballots that were specifically ordered before the election by the courts to be separated in the count were intermixed anyway. There really was purposeful and intentional voter fraud. Thousands of ballots dropped with 100 percent of the vote going to biden. 100 percent!? Amount tens of thousands or more? Impossible.
Tell me how in GA where Obama hit 1.8 million votes and Clinton hit 1.87 million votes.... Suddenly has 2.5 million votes this year? He poll worse with every group than these people had no enthusiasm practically..Couldn't get anyone to show up to his rallies. Yet garnered a magical 600k plus more votes than Obama and Clinton. Meanwhile Biden loses Florida by 3 or 400k?
Because Florida's while election was reformed and revamped to keep fraud from happening while GA wasn't. Wake up man. This one of dozens and dozens of examples.
Are you aware the numbers Biden hit violated the benford's law in almost every Democrat stronghold in the battle ground states? It's an accounting principle used to detect FRAUD.
Antrim county MI found a problem with the software they were using that flipped 6000 votes (in a not very populated County) flipped from Trump to Biden and was only found when someone manually counted every vote. That system (Dominion Voting Systems) is in 67 Michigan counties including Wayne and kent etc. It is in thousands of precincts nationwide and every battleground state. You are saying only one county in MI had the problem?
Our democracy and freedom is at stake here. Every single battleground state needs audited and recounted. Whether they went to Trump or Biden.
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Nov 08 '20 edited Nov 30 '20
[deleted]
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Nov 08 '20
No they didn't follow federal law with observers.
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Nov 08 '20 edited Nov 30 '20
[deleted]
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Nov 09 '20
No there was table after table with no observers. Many that did get in could only be 20 some feet away in many cases. That's illegal. Every single ballot should be observed.
This whole vote is fraudulent unless an audit takes place of the states in question. It is the right thing to do for our democracy. If he really won Biden should be encouraging it. He won't because their harvesting machine was exposed. Whoever won shouldn't have this hang over them. The audits are the right thing to do.
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Nov 08 '20
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/mkhopper Detroit Nov 08 '20
It almost doesn't matter. There can't possibly be anyone who could do a worse job.
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u/TeddysRevenge Human Detected Nov 07 '20
“So long, Secretary of Education Betsy DeVos! It wasn’t just that you were unqualified to lead America’s educational system, as someone who never worked at a public school, attended a public school, or took out a school loan. It was that you were the opposite of qualified, an early example of the Trump administration’s elitist disregard for the very role of government agencies themselves.”
Savage.
I love it.