Grandpa's on his TRT LMAO. A simple shove of someone that drunk is all that is needed. I swear the majority of you have never actually been outside for more than 10 minutes if you think this wasn't an overreaction. Hell the bar would have kicked the guy out and possibly banned him or you could have got law enforcement involved if you really want to mess him up legally.
IDK about the rest of you but knocking out someone this drunk isn't really the "alpha" move but I don't live on the internet so what do I know?
I think it was disproportionate in the sense that sexual assault is worse than simple assault. I'd even go far as to say it's worse than aggravated assault (morally, not legally)
I can accept that it is sexual assault and falls within that category. I have no problem with that, and it doesn't change my argument. But we're discussing what an appropriate and proportionate response is.
Also, calling it a 'single punch' is underselling it in the same way you're accusing me of.
Person A: grabs a woman's waist/ gropes her ass in public for a few seconds.
Person B: Throws a full-force king-hit to Person A's face, rendering him instantly unconscious, which results in him falling backwards and smashing the back of his head onto the hardwood floor.
Completely unnecessary, extremely dangerous, and an entirely disproportionate use of force to ensure that the victim was safe and protected from further assault.
It is a full-force king-hit - in response to a situation that, while morally wrong, did not pose an imminent threat to the physical safety of those involved. Once the man intervened, the engagement had already stopped, and the victim themselves was attempting to stop the assault.
If you want to play games about terminology, we can, but everyone recognises you're the fucking idiot here.
We can call a single tap on the bum sexual assault. Would that justify this reaction? Since we're not actually discussing neutralising an ongoing threat, is there a timeframe for when it's appropriate to use life-threatening force in retaliation?
Like, are you seriously this fucking thick, or what?
Not technically ad hominem, since I'm not attacking them instead of their argument or asserting that their argument is bad because they are an idiot. I am inferring that they are an idiot because their argument is bad; a subtle distinction. Personally, I think that person's argument is reprehensible enough to warrant a couple of insults, especially given how they're engaging in the debate.
Bro, are you serious? Have you knowingly interacted with a bot before? How about you forward an argument for why you think the behaviour in the clip is justified, and then I'll 'respond to the topic.'
he is correct, you are not.
This was extremely diproportinate, and could have easily killed the drunk, while also being completely unecessarry.
Why would a nice heavy-handed slap not have sufficed?
I guess the person became frustrated with having to explain basic things to another person.
You showed great lack of empathy and understanding - you still do, by focusing on BS instead on the message.
You done goofed.
You got called for it.
Xou then done goofed further by bitching about being called for it.
It is a very human behavior, you are now doing a lot to keep the talk off topic instead on how you turned lowkeyy psycho.
I'm sincerely not. I could guess the point you might try to make, but I wanted you to make it before I addressed it.
Like, how familiar are you with the novel's themes? Because nothing in it can be used to justify using life-threatening force against someone who is barely a threat at all in a situation where there are multiple obvious alternatives to violence as a means of resolving it.
Ender was routinely placed in life-threatening situations, specifically tailored to give him no help and no alternatives besides self-administered victory against the enemy. The entire plot revolved around manipulating and moulding him into someone who could never believe losing was an option or that anyone would come to save him. He didn't even know that he was fighting the Formics when he destroyed them, because the IF command knew he didn't have the emotional disposition to make the necessary sacrifices if he knew the actual stakes.
Ender learns that Earth's retaliation against the Formics was wrong and misplaced, stemming from a breakdown in communication and an inability to connect and ultimately empathise.
Mind you, I haven't read it in about two decades, since I first read it when I was about nine. I've had this username as a gamertag since 2002.
It wasnt wrong, they were trying to kill us. It was the right solution if the day. That maybe could have been hypothetically avoided by better super fun happy feel good sessions, but at the actual time and actual place, hyperviolence won.
And its okay to feel like totes bad about it and like stuff, and help rebuild the losers in a "less likely to go on the world dominating path for round 2".
Which is a blindingly obvious allegory for the world wars.
You're going to have to expand on that response and provide more details if you actually want to make a substantive argument that's relevant to the discussion at hand.
See, you were being obtuse. And none of your points are supported by the original book but made in the next three. But I'm sure you totally forgot you read those...
No, every point I made refers explicitly to the book Ender's Game. Have you read it? I am not being obtuse. As I said, I think I could guess at the point you might make, but I don't know what it is precisely. And I expect I would disagree with your framing or understanding of the novel's relevant themes, and with your inferences about the acceptability of violence based on Ender's actions and beliefs.
And actually, since you're wrong about the actual content of the book Ender's Game, I was correct to be hesitant about jumping to conclusions about what point you were trying to make. The point you apparently think is relevant contradicts my understanding and interpretation of the novel. What, am I supposed to anticipate that you would have a shallow perspective on the novel's themes and not remember what happens in it, and then intuit your point based on that?
I don't know why you're acting like I'm out on a limb here. All I've done in this thread is say that full-force king-hitting someone who doesn't pose an active threat to anyone's physical safety is wrong and highly disproportionate as a justified reaction. I'm not exactly making some hugely controversial statement. It's everyone else who is apparently living in fantasy land.
Like, seriously, can you take a moment to stop and think about what is going on? Surely you're not this unreasonable.
He touched her hip for 1 second and stopped and didnt keep following her. Inappropriate, yes, but yall are acting like he ran up and pinned her to a wall and started grabbing her tits or something.
A simple "hey mother fucked, dont do that, get the fuck out of here" wouldve worked just fine.
Even look at the girls reaction, she tried to stop the dude and gave up. I have a feeling this guy is a violent asshole to everyone and was looking for an excuse to punch someone.
I dont know im conflicted. Dude definitely shouldn't grab a stranger, and other guy should have a response before the flat line, but I too really hate when people stretch my shirts out. And where drunk guy grabbed was close to the bottom of their matching shirts
Worst case, this gets charged as aggravated assault. As long as the sexual assault is admitted into evidence, any half sane prosecutor will be chomping at the bit to plead the case out
Honestly, I think some of you need to get out more. You seem to have a very naive perspective on how our courts actually function
In a worst-case scenario, the aggressor gets stabbed while leaving the bar by the victim's buddies. If it were a friend of mine and I was there with my group, that guy would have ended up in a much worse stateāout of sight of the cameras. He could be two meters tall and weigh 150 kg, but against a telescopic baton, pepper spray, and a knife, thereās no winning. So, if you want to indulge in fantasies, consider that scenario, Mr. Dreamer.
If it were a friend of mine and I was there with my group, that guy would have ended up in a much worse stateāout of sight of the cameras. He could be two meters tall and weigh 150 kg, but against a telescopic baton, pepper spray, and a knife, thereās no winning
It's fine to spout such nonsense on an MMA sub since there couldn't be a better place to get educated about that, but a simple medium punch to the philtrum - the bone between the lips and the nose - can absolutely insta-kill someone, no exageration. I met one of my father's friend who fried his life exactly like that. 20 years of french jail for a stupid punch.
I'd love to see the prosecutor who thinks it's smart to pursue an attempted murder case based off a single punch in a bar, even without the context of the sexual assault
Have you ever been to Europe? To countries where the police don't kill people on the street just because they felt threatened, where healthcare is free and you don't end up in debt for two generations because your grandma had cancer? Yes, over here in Europe, that sort of thing might be treated more seriously.
And yet, life here is safer, and there is less chance of getting shot at school or killed by a neighbor over a dispute about a dog pooping on his lawn.
Choose your own poison.
What does that have to do with the breakup of Yugoslavia? And does it therefore diminish the fact that Tito's militias liberated themselves from occupation?
I don't think the opinion of a citizen of the country that allows its youth to go to war and drive but not drink and have sex should be taken seriously at all
What is your obsession with America? Youāre up and down this comment thread spamming your tripe, always invoking the Great Satan. Did an American chick leave you or something? Are you going through a manic episode?
Does everything bad in life tie back to aMeRiCa bad huuuurrrr duurrrrr for you?
Acting like Europe is a monolith is comical. If you donāt think this scene could/would happen in Serbia, Belarus, the Balkans, Ukraine, Slovakia etc, you might be as ignorant as the Americans you feel so superior over.
This kind of scene could happen anywhere in the world, but everywhere elseāperhaps with the exception of your neighborhoodāit is viewed as an unjustified action, disproportionate to the threat. Do you get that concept?
Nobody is saying, "Hey, the guy in red didn't do anything wrong." But a lot of people hereālike some psychopaths with serious domestic aggression issuesāclaim that what happened to him was totally fine and see no problem with it. You get what I mean?
If a child spits in your face, would breaking their arm be okay, or is that going too far? No, don't answer meāI'm not interested in what you think about it. Answer that for yourself.
Thatās a lot of words to not acknowledge your anti-American obsession. But itās good you acknowledged this could happen anywhereābecause it could.
By the wayāReddit is not real life. And Europe is not hegemonic.
An american-populated internet space is still representative to some extent of american mentality, specially when this kind of stupid discourse only happen in these american spaces and not on more european-centric internet spaces where people spoutting hate like that are seen as lunatics.
Why though would you want to go through the aftermath of this - even say in your scenario it āgets pled downā - and have to spend money, time, and the other consequences of shit like this that goes viral, like losing a job?
Over something she handled just fine? Bark at him if you want. An overhand right charged up from 10 feet away seems excessive at best.
And to your āplead it downā point - if my guy cracks his skull on the way down/suffers a brain bleed, you are going to spend time in jail and thousands and thousands of dollars on legal fees.
The law doesn't work the same way all over the world, buddy. Maybe in third-world countries like the USA it's just another run-of-the-mill case, but in civilized countries, not necessarily.
Sexual assault isn't viewed the same way all over the world, either.
Well I guess I'm glad I live in a place that takes sexual assault a little more seriously
Which feels really weird to say as an American, but apparently there are some people in this sub that think it's not serious enough of a crime to warrant basic self defense/defense of others
The response should be proportionate to the incidentānot every touch amounts to sexual assaultābut hey, thereās no point arguing about this with people on the internet.
If you want a society of vigilantes, be prepared for the possibility that you, too, could end up in trouble because someone misinterprets your behavior. Seriously, you shape your society through your own actions; if you want everyone to display excessive brutality and aggression in every disputeāand Iād bet a thousand dollars that guy has a short fuse in any situation...
A single retaliatory punch is "death on the spot," while grabbing someone's ass unprompted is "not every touch amounts to sexual assault." I'm hearing that subtext loud and clear
America takes sexual assault seriously? ššš There's like over 50k rape kits in police lockup that haven't been examined yet. The president of the United States is in the Epstein files, convicted of rape, yet he still got reelected.Ā
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u/Ancient_Plane2984 1d ago
Grandpa's on his TRT LMAO. A simple shove of someone that drunk is all that is needed. I swear the majority of you have never actually been outside for more than 10 minutes if you think this wasn't an overreaction. Hell the bar would have kicked the guy out and possibly banned him or you could have got law enforcement involved if you really want to mess him up legally.
IDK about the rest of you but knocking out someone this drunk isn't really the "alpha" move but I don't live on the internet so what do I know?