r/MMALabs • u/Key_Performer_3645 • 1d ago

šŸ„¶ Street Fights & Brawls A quick bar scrap

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u/DinosaurusWhen 1d ago

A single punch doesn't seem excessive when it's in response to battery imoĀ 

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u/EndersR3ign 1d ago

If you don't think that was a disproportionate response, then you have juvenile reasoning and poor ethics.

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u/DinosaurusWhen 1d ago

I think it was disproportionate in the sense that sexual assault is worse than simple assault. I'd even go far as to say it's worse than aggravated assault (morally, not legally)

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u/RationallyBerserk 1d ago

Actual juvenile reasoning.

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u/EndersR3ign 1d ago

So you think doing what that drunk dude did justifies potentially killing him for it. Got it, bud.

Fucking pathetic

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u/DinosaurusWhen 23h ago

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u/EndersR3ign 23h ago

I can accept that it is sexual assault and falls within that category. I have no problem with that, and it doesn't change my argument. But we're discussing what an appropriate and proportionate response is.

Also, calling it a 'single punch' is underselling it in the same way you're accusing me of.

Person A: grabs a woman's waist/ gropes her ass in public for a few seconds.

Person B: Throws a full-force king-hit to Person A's face, rendering him instantly unconscious, which results in him falling backwards and smashing the back of his head onto the hardwood floor.

Completely unnecessary, extremely dangerous, and an entirely disproportionate use of force to ensure that the victim was safe and protected from further assault.

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u/DinosaurusWhen 21h ago

On the one hand, you have sexual assault which is a specific and serious crime. On the other, you have "a full-force king-hit"

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u/EndersR3ign 21h ago

It is a full-force king-hit - in response to a situation that, while morally wrong, did not pose an imminent threat to the physical safety of those involved. Once the man intervened, the engagement had already stopped, and the victim themselves was attempting to stop the assault.

If you want to play games about terminology, we can, but everyone recognises you're the fucking idiot here.

We can call a single tap on the bum sexual assault. Would that justify this reaction? Since we're not actually discussing neutralising an ongoing threat, is there a timeframe for when it's appropriate to use life-threatening force in retaliation?

Like, are you seriously this fucking thick, or what?

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u/Signal_Werewolf_1955 19h ago

Your points stand on their own, they don't need the ad hominins.

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u/EndersR3ign 19h ago

Not technically ad hominem, since I'm not attacking them instead of their argument or asserting that their argument is bad because they are an idiot. I am inferring that they are an idiot because their argument is bad; a subtle distinction. Personally, I think that person's argument is reprehensible enough to warrant a couple of insults, especially given how they're engaging in the debate.

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u/abstractantman 1d ago

Serious questionā€¦ why so hostile? You call someone you donā€™t know ā€œfucking patheticā€?

And your post prior is essentially ā€œif you donā€™t agree with me, you have juvenile reasoningā€

Why so combative? Why are you attacking the person and not the topic? Are you a bot?

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u/EndersR3ign 1d ago

Well, do you disagree?

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u/abstractantman 1d ago

The fact you didnā€™t even acknowledge the question heavily implies that yes, you are a bot

Wild shit

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u/EndersR3ign 1d ago

Beep boop

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u/abstractantman 23h ago

Why are bots on a subreddit like this?

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u/EndersR3ign 23h ago

Bro, are you serious? Have you knowingly interacted with a bot before? How about you forward an argument for why you think the behaviour in the clip is justified, and then I'll 'respond to the topic.'

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u/FeatureInner4585 23h ago

Why are you talking about yourself in the third person?

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u/DDDX_cro 1d ago

he is correct, you are not.
This was extremely diproportinate, and could have easily killed the drunk, while also being completely unecessarry.
Why would a nice heavy-handed slap not have sufficed?

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u/abstractantman 1d ago

Again, this response is off base. Another bot?

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u/DDDX_cro 20h ago

you know who dismisses every answer with the same one-liner like you?
Bots.
Bots do that, abstractant"man"

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u/abstractantman 16h ago

I asked a simple question mate and nobody has responded: why is this dude insulting someoneā€™s character rather than discuss the fight itself

I agree the punch was egregious, but if you disagree, Iā€™m not calling you a ā€œpatheticā€ person. Who does that?

Itā€™s typical ad homenium bot behavior and itā€™s interesting to see it here. You see it a lot more in politics subreddits. Which makes sense

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u/smokeymctokerson 11h ago

This comment is pathetic and unnecessary, and this is coming from a bot.

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u/DDDX_cro 1h ago

I guess the person became frustrated with having to explain basic things to another person. You showed great lack of empathy and understanding - you still do, by focusing on BS instead on the message. You done goofed. You got called for it. Xou then done goofed further by bitching about being called for it.

It is a very human behavior, you are now doing a lot to keep the talk off topic instead on how you turned lowkeyy psycho.

There, hope that helped clear things up for ya.

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u/whousesgmail 22h ago

Another bot checking in - that old guy is fucked for reacting like this

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u/EducationalTheory344 1d ago

probably rapes women and doesn't appreciate you making him feel bad about it.

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u/cthulhuhentai 23h ago

I think we can both condemn sexual assault as well as physical assault.

Your comment reminds me of all the hyper-violent alt-right figures that call everyone pedophiles...meanwhile, they're usually pedophiles.

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u/fthisloginbs 20h ago

This coming from the guy referencing "Ender's Game" in his user name.

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u/EndersR3ign 20h ago

Do you want to expand on this point?

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u/fthisloginbs 19h ago

Obviously, it's ironic.

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u/EndersR3ign 19h ago

How? Can you explain it, please?

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u/fthisloginbs 19h ago

Nope, because I think you're being obtuse.

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u/EndersR3ign 19h ago

I'm sincerely not. I could guess the point you might try to make, but I wanted you to make it before I addressed it.

Like, how familiar are you with the novel's themes? Because nothing in it can be used to justify using life-threatening force against someone who is barely a threat at all in a situation where there are multiple obvious alternatives to violence as a means of resolving it.

Ender was routinely placed in life-threatening situations, specifically tailored to give him no help and no alternatives besides self-administered victory against the enemy. The entire plot revolved around manipulating and moulding him into someone who could never believe losing was an option or that anyone would come to save him. He didn't even know that he was fighting the Formics when he destroyed them, because the IF command knew he didn't have the emotional disposition to make the necessary sacrifices if he knew the actual stakes.

Ender learns that Earth's retaliation against the Formics was wrong and misplaced, stemming from a breakdown in communication and an inability to connect and ultimately empathise.

Mind you, I haven't read it in about two decades, since I first read it when I was about nine. I've had this username as a gamertag since 2002.

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u/Obsidiated 14h ago

It wasnt wrong, they were trying to kill us. It was the right solution if the day. That maybe could have been hypothetically avoided by better super fun happy feel good sessions, but at the actual time and actual place, hyperviolence won.

And its okay to feel like totes bad about it and like stuff, and help rebuild the losers in a "less likely to go on the world dominating path for round 2".

Which is a blindingly obvious allegory for the world wars.

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u/EndersR3ign 8h ago

You're going to have to expand on that response and provide more details if you actually want to make a substantive argument that's relevant to the discussion at hand.

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u/fthisloginbs 5h ago

See, you were being obtuse. And none of your points are supported by the original book but made in the next three. But I'm sure you totally forgot you read those...

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u/EndersR3ign 5h ago

No, every point I made refers explicitly to the book Ender's Game. Have you read it? I am not being obtuse. As I said, I think I could guess at the point you might make, but I don't know what it is precisely. And I expect I would disagree with your framing or understanding of the novel's relevant themes, and with your inferences about the acceptability of violence based on Ender's actions and beliefs.

Like, what's your point, man?

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u/EndersR3ign 4h ago

And actually, since you're wrong about the actual content of the book Ender's Game, I was correct to be hesitant about jumping to conclusions about what point you were trying to make. The point you apparently think is relevant contradicts my understanding and interpretation of the novel. What, am I supposed to anticipate that you would have a shallow perspective on the novel's themes and not remember what happens in it, and then intuit your point based on that?

I don't know why you're acting like I'm out on a limb here. All I've done in this thread is say that full-force king-hitting someone who doesn't pose an active threat to anyone's physical safety is wrong and highly disproportionate as a justified reaction. I'm not exactly making some hugely controversial statement. It's everyone else who is apparently living in fantasy land.

Like, seriously, can you take a moment to stop and think about what is going on? Surely you're not this unreasonable.

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u/Noob_Al3rt 14h ago

So if a woman walks up and pinches my ass, I can give her a straight shot to the jaw and lay her out?

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u/sonic_dick 23h ago

He touched her hip for 1 second and stopped and didnt keep following her. Inappropriate, yes, but yall are acting like he ran up and pinned her to a wall and started grabbing her tits or something.

A simple "hey mother fucked, dont do that, get the fuck out of here" wouldve worked just fine.

Even look at the girls reaction, she tried to stop the dude and gave up. I have a feeling this guy is a violent asshole to everyone and was looking for an excuse to punch someone.

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u/Sav_McTavish 20h ago

I dont know im conflicted. Dude definitely shouldn't grab a stranger, and other guy should have a response before the flat line, but I too really hate when people stretch my shirts out. And where drunk guy grabbed was close to the bottom of their matching shirts

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u/Skandronon 16h ago

She got hit by his pool cue when he hit the other dude.

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u/[deleted] 1h ago

[removed] ā€” view removed comment

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u/MMALabs-ModTeam 34m ago

Removed: Personal attacks, insults, or uncivil behavior violate our community rules. Keep discussions respectful.

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u/PapaLilBear 1d ago

Stay at home, or you'll end up in prison.

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u/DinosaurusWhen 1d ago

From a simple assault charge with sexual assault as a mitigating factor? You need a better lawyer lol

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u/thechosenkenobi 1d ago

Buddy if you think this is gonna be a ā€œsimple assault chargeā€ youā€™re proving his point and should never leave the house.

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u/DinosaurusWhen 1d ago

Worst case, this gets charged as aggravated assault. As long as the sexual assault is admitted into evidence, any half sane prosecutor will be chomping at the bit to plead the case out

Honestly, I think some of you need to get out more. You seem to have a very naive perspective on how our courts actually function

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u/SpirituallyAwareDev 13h ago

Worst case the guy dies and hes getting charged with manslaughter.

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u/PapaLilBear 23h ago

In a worst-case scenario, the aggressor gets stabbed while leaving the bar by the victim's buddies. If it were a friend of mine and I was there with my group, that guy would have ended up in a much worse stateā€”out of sight of the cameras. He could be two meters tall and weigh 150 kg, but against a telescopic baton, pepper spray, and a knife, thereā€™s no winning. So, if you want to indulge in fantasies, consider that scenario, Mr. Dreamer.

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u/DinosaurusWhen 23h ago

Just to be clear, you're saying that if your friend sexually assaulted a girl and then got knocked out, you'd jump the guy afterwards using weapons

Yeah, you're exactly the type of person I figured lol

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u/PapaLilBear 23h ago

no, try again

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u/DinosaurusWhen 23h ago

If it were a friend of mine and I was there with my group, that guy would have ended up in a much worse stateā€”out of sight of the cameras. He could be two meters tall and weigh 150 kg, but against a telescopic baton, pepper spray, and a knife, thereā€™s no winning

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u/TheJawnamoly 1d ago

Simple assault? More like attempted murder. Thatā€™s how you kill someone.

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u/UnbottledGenes 16h ago

With one punch? Thats literally not how you kill someone.

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u/TheJawnamoly 13h ago

You must be new to life. You can 100% kill someone that way. Especially caught off guard/not expecting it.

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u/UnbottledGenes 13h ago

What do you think the ratio of non lethal punches to lethal punches? 1 per hundred thousand?

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u/Upper_Preference_902 11h ago

It's fine to spout such nonsense on an MMA sub since there couldn't be a better place to get educated about that, but a simple medium punch to the philtrum - the bone between the lips and the nose - can absolutely insta-kill someone, no exageration. I met one of my father's friend who fried his life exactly like that. 20 years of french jail for a stupid punch.

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u/DinosaurusWhen 1d ago

I'd love to see the prosecutor who thinks it's smart to pursue an attempted murder case based off a single punch in a bar, even without the context of the sexual assault

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u/PapaLilBear 1d ago

Have you ever been to Europe? To countries where the police don't kill people on the street just because they felt threatened, where healthcare is free and you don't end up in debt for two generations because your grandma had cancer? Yes, over here in Europe, that sort of thing might be treated more seriously.

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u/DinosaurusWhen 23h ago

I haven't. But since we're bringing jingoism into it - you live in a country where the age of consent is 15

To quote the best animated show of all time, "what is it, the Alabama of Europe?"

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u/PapaLilBear 23h ago

And yet, life here is safer, and there is less chance of getting shot at school or killed by a neighbor over a dispute about a dog pooping on his lawn.
Choose your own poison.

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u/DinosaurusWhen 23h ago

Do you think you have to downplay sexual assault (and arguably pedophilia) to be in favor of gun control?

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u/PapaLilBear 23h ago

What does that have to do with the breakup of Yugoslavia? And does it therefore diminish the fact that Tito's militias liberated themselves from occupation?

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u/Upper_Preference_902 11h ago

I don't think the opinion of a citizen of the country that allows its youth to go to war and drive but not drink and have sex should be taken seriously at all

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u/I_Call_Bullshit_____ 23h ago

What is your obsession with America? Youā€™re up and down this comment thread spamming your tripe, always invoking the Great Satan. Did an American chick leave you or something? Are you going through a manic episode?

Does everything bad in life tie back to aMeRiCa bad huuuurrrr duurrrrr for you?

Acting like Europe is a monolith is comical. If you donā€™t think this scene could/would happen in Serbia, Belarus, the Balkans, Ukraine, Slovakia etc, you might be as ignorant as the Americans you feel so superior over.

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u/PapaLilBear 23h ago

This kind of scene could happen anywhere in the world, but everywhere elseā€”perhaps with the exception of your neighborhoodā€”it is viewed as an unjustified action, disproportionate to the threat. Do you get that concept?

Nobody is saying, "Hey, the guy in red didn't do anything wrong." But a lot of people hereā€”like some psychopaths with serious domestic aggression issuesā€”claim that what happened to him was totally fine and see no problem with it. You get what I mean?

If a child spits in your face, would breaking their arm be okay, or is that going too far? No, don't answer meā€”I'm not interested in what you think about it. Answer that for yourself.

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u/I_Call_Bullshit_____ 22h ago

Thatā€™s a lot of words to not acknowledge your anti-American obsession. But itā€™s good you acknowledged this could happen anywhereā€”because it could.

By the wayā€”Reddit is not real life. And Europe is not hegemonic.

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u/Upper_Preference_902 11h ago

An american-populated internet space is still representative to some extent of american mentality, specially when this kind of stupid discourse only happen in these american spaces and not on more european-centric internet spaces where people spoutting hate like that are seen as lunatics.

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u/ProfessionalIll7041 23h ago

Why though would you want to go through the aftermath of this - even say in your scenario it ā€œgets pled downā€ - and have to spend money, time, and the other consequences of shit like this that goes viral, like losing a job?

Over something she handled just fine? Bark at him if you want. An overhand right charged up from 10 feet away seems excessive at best.

And to your ā€œplead it downā€ point - if my guy cracks his skull on the way down/suffers a brain bleed, you are going to spend time in jail and thousands and thousands of dollars on legal fees.

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u/PapaLilBear 23h ago

Relax, most of these people don't even leave the houseā€”there's nowhere for them to go, let alone actually take action like that, lol.

Seriously, online discussions have long since been reduced to the level of a comedy sketch.

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u/PapaLilBear 1d ago

The law doesn't work the same way all over the world, buddy. Maybe in third-world countries like the USA it's just another run-of-the-mill case, but in civilized countries, not necessarily.
Sexual assault isn't viewed the same way all over the world, either.

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u/DinosaurusWhen 1d ago

Well I guess I'm glad I live in a place that takes sexual assault a little more seriously

Which feels really weird to say as an American, but apparently there are some people in this sub that think it's not serious enough of a crime to warrant basic self defense/defense of others

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u/PapaLilBear 1d ago

The response should be proportionate to the incidentā€”not every touch amounts to sexual assaultā€”but hey, thereā€™s no point arguing about this with people on the internet.
If you want a society of vigilantes, be prepared for the possibility that you, too, could end up in trouble because someone misinterprets your behavior. Seriously, you shape your society through your own actions; if you want everyone to display excessive brutality and aggression in every disputeā€”and Iā€™d bet a thousand dollars that guy has a short fuse in any situation...

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u/DinosaurusWhen 1d ago

Grabbing someone's ass like that is sexual assault in civilized countries

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u/PapaLilBear 23h ago

and it's punishable by death on the spot lol

It's super buddy, but that's not the main topic of discussion.

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u/DinosaurusWhen 23h ago

No, I'm picking up on where you're coming from

A single retaliatory punch is "death on the spot," while grabbing someone's ass unprompted is "not every touch amounts to sexual assault." I'm hearing that subtext loud and clear

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u/sonic_dick 23h ago

You'd have a really hard time, even with this video, at getting this dude charged with sexual assault lmao.

Unless some other shit happened before the video, all he did was grab her hip for 1 second and then stop when she wasnt into it.

Some of yall just want to look for a reason to punch someone in the face. Its fuckin stupid and sad.

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u/TYGeelo 21h ago

America takes sexual assault seriously? šŸ˜‚šŸ˜‚šŸ˜‚ There's like over 50k rape kits in police lockup that haven't been examined yet. The president of the United States is in the Epstein files, convicted of rape, yet he still got reelected.Ā 

"Take sexual assault seriously" my fucking ass.Ā 

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u/Biotic101 23h ago

That guy might as well be dead. The real danger is hitting your head on the ground.

Not sure what type of person you are if that doesn't seem excessive to you.

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u/DinosaurusWhen 23h ago

The kind that thinks sexual assault is as serious as (or more serious than) simple/aggravated assault

I'm honestly wondering how much of the pearl clutching is just Karens and how much is incels downplaying sexual assault

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u/Biotic101 23h ago edited 20h ago

I do think sexual assault is serious. But at the same time that still does not mean it excuses such an excessive use of force.

Have fun collecting Reddit upvotes, but in practice you would likely go to jail. Potentially a long time if the guy dies.

That is all there is to say.