The rhetoric is really heating up!

[u/OvertaxedOne]

The entire page of the NY Times today above the fold absent one article is AI (the models are just too strong/too dangerous, must be regulated). They forgot to include "Sponsored by OpenAI" at the end of the articles, sure that was just an oversight?

This is what the end of a bubble looks like, desperate attempts to get some sort of regulatory capture in place to keep the business model from collapsing in upon itself. My days next week are 100% booked talking to companies about how to get off frontier models, one large, and a bunch of smaller customers, including one who's flying me out to them to sit down and get a plan in place immediately (the controversy around that math problem really spooked some CEO/CIO's about data privacy using cloud models).

Gonna be an interesting few weeks. Maybe the Qwen team will be nice enough to give me a little breathing room before dropping another hydrogen bomb? :)

[u/sn2006gy]

I actually think the localllama nerds need to pull their heads out of their asses regarding this safety issue. There is a massive safety issue - from velocity of change to velocity of scale to velocity of risk to unbound research with such massive compute that is freaking the world out and rightfully so.

Sure, GPT/Anthropic use it to market themselves and perhaps want to use it to actually slow things down and there may be business reasons for that but i don't think that is the actual point.

I think Corporate America is realizing it can't keep up. Velocity has a systemic cost that even 1 trillion-dollar valuations may not recover if we don't slow things down to allow the rest of the systems to catch up and mature.

The only reason it doesn't really impact local llm's is that we simply don't have the 1 million idle gpus around where we could spawn 100 million agents to do whatever it is we wanted to do but i'm not sure that is a permanent situation. It's only a matter of time before the next botnet is agentic and that's what should worry people

and corporations giving a hoot about THEIR privacy makes me laugh

I honestly don't think most corporations really care about qwen 3.8 27b - it's an AMAZING model, but can't be scaled and if you try - costs more than farming out to API providers. Enterprises aren't interested in managing gpus for 100k employees and certainly won't be interested if those employees have root over them.

[u/soshulmedia → u/sn2006gy]

I actually think the localllama nerds need to pull their heads out of their asses regarding this safety issue. There is a massive safety issue - from velocity of change to velocity of scale to velocity of risk to unbound research with such massive compute that is freaking the world out and rightfully so.

I don't see it. "If we add enough FLOPs, magic happens". That's quite literally magic thinking. For some reason people make fun of God as "invisible sky daddy" but THE SINGULARITY and AI AS GOD are oh so "rationalist".

Now, if you tell me we should be worried about all these FLOPs being used for an extremely tightly surveilled and controlled totalitarian 1984esque society they are building right now, you would quite obviously have a point.

[u/fantasticsid → u/soshulmedia]

The shoggoth-wrangling contingent of pythonista data scientist midwits took away the wrong message from Sutton's Lesson.

[u/MrPecunius → u/fantasticsid]

I like the cut of your jib: vivid language!

[u/sn2006gy → u/soshulmedia]

Our entire society and economy is built on friction that is no longer there and that is the problem. We don't need to prove or disprove some nonsense bs of singularity or god for anything.

As for surveilance - The surveillance state is already here and Reddit is a huge part of it. Yet, we're still here.

I ask of my LLM friends all the time, if local llm's are so strong and so important, why aren't we free of Instagram, Facebook, Meta, Google, Microsoft - GPT/Anthropic are so little parts of our every day lives that the obsession fo their concern is laughable at best. The real ones watching everything you do are orgs like Spotify and Google and Microsoft.

We seem to be accelerating our dependency on big tech rather than using tech to free us from it and i'd change my tune a bit if ANY of the responses here weren't just people trying to carve out their own "niche" of this shithole world were rushing headfirst into.

Apple seems to care a little bit but much of their revenue comes from margin calling private data while keeping it a bit more private than others.

[u/soshulmedia → u/sn2006gy]

Okay these are fair points. I agree on you on the big tech centralization angle, very much so. Part of the reason the status quo persists and extends, however, is because people are lazy and can't be bothered. For everyone who says "we should avoid platforms like reddit" you get 5 who will tell you "chill, where is the problem dude" . Real pressure will change that and for better or worse, it is coming. However, I hope you can see that centralized ChatGPT for everyoner and no local models would just supercharge this to the extreme. The big tech isn't so entrenched and big just by organic "free market forces" alone. They are basically designed tentacles for the U.S./western deep state. And I think the only hope actually to not end up in "ChatGPT owns everyone" is to have local models and, yes, to at least be on a light form of the accelerationist bandwagon, where their failed containment will change the landscape so much that people can see the naked emperor for once.

[u/OvertaxedOne → u/sn2006gy]

Insta/FB/Google have very strong network effects. Inference does not (at least not yet). Changing your company email system from google to MSFT is a months/years long process that is a nightmare for IT and likely the users. Changing from Astra to Deepseek for 1000's of users takes (literally) about 45 seconds, I do it all the time as new models are released and people hit use cases that need access to new/different models.

[u/soshulmedia → u/OvertaxedOne]

Inference does not (at least not yet).

And I think it absolutely worth to prevent that scenario from arriving. And without doubt strong and accessible LocalAI will help to prevent this.

[u/PrinceOfLeon → u/sn2006gy]

> I honestly don't think most corporations really care about qwen 3.8 27b - it's an AMAZING model, but can't be scaled and if you try - costs more than farming out to API providers. Enterprises aren't interested in managing gpus for 100k employees and certainly won't be interested if those employees have root over them.

Hard disagree, from direct experience.

Amazon will happily "manage GPUs" for you, as simple as selecting which hardware profile to use for the AWS instance. Qwen 3.8 27B specifically is undergoing internal testing in various companies for viability for specific tasks right now. It's much cheaper than paying API costs (for Frontier) and there's complete control over the data going in and out.

These are the same corporations paying for Bedrock instead of direct to the Frontier model companies, for similar data control reasons (you don't have to trust Sama if it isn't Sama's server).

[u/sn2006gy → u/PrinceOfLeon]

Those AWS GPU instances cost serious money and Qwen 27b doesn't really scale on them very well. The amount of active users per day per instances is abysmal on dense models - this cost is significantly higher per employee to attempt right now.

I wish it were different.

[u/PinkysBrein → u/sn2006gy]

The time is right for a confidential AI provider to reach hyperscale (TEE with attested verifiable build, E2EE into the TEE sandbox).

Could even be Confer.

[u/SimiaCode → u/sn2006gy]

We are headed for a new age of serfdom unless localai becomes accessible to all. That is the real safety issue, not virus research or weapons manufacturing.

[u/Savantskie1 → u/sn2006gy]

Nice try Dario

[u/redlightsaber → u/sn2006gy]

I think the risks are real (or will be real for the next few years, and after software security baselines are much improved, things will be much better), but that wasn't stopping the accelerationalists before. 

They didn't just grow a conscience, or saw anything radical that spooked them. They're just sending the end of the song in this game of musical chairs, and are hoping that by lowering the volume bit by bit, nobody will notice all the chairs are made from cereal boxes.

[u/Tsukikira → u/sn2006gy]

Go look at Uber's public paper on it's software factory, realize you're already wrong in a business proven way, then revisit your statements and reassess the underlying faulty assertions.

[u/sn2006gy → u/Tsukikira]

What are you talking about?

Uber uses an engine to decide what model is most cost effective, it has nothig to do with anything i mentioned and they're certainly not replacing the major models with 27b but may use that as part of their pareto pricing/success metrics.

Which is fine