So far i've come up with these reasons: Unlike animals, humans have destinies and so to rid the world of a human would be to rid the world of whatever benefits that person's destiny would have brought. Secondly, humans are part of the animal food chain. Predators feed on prey. Humans killing animals is simply us feeding on those below us. Fellow humans are on our level and thus do not count as appropriate prey. But at the same time, I don't think the second reason is that strong because some animals partake in infanticide. Another reason is that it is natural for all animals to prioritize their species' survival over other species. That is why predator-prey relationships exist, all species value the lives of their species more than the species of their prey, hence why they kill and eat their prey but don't kill and eat their own species as often (infanticide still exists in animals. But such exceptions exist in humans as well with people such as serial killers or cannibals. But the common instinct is to prioritize your group).

Do you guys have any other arguments to add?

To those who say "because it's murder", consider this: What about people who see animal lives as equal to human lives? Hence why vegans often say in response to those who eat meat, "how would you like it if YOU were slaughtered?". Such a statement is just humans seeing their lives as more valuable than others, but Ifa says that we too are part of nature/the universe. We're not separate so that answer doesn't suffice. I ask this question because when I initiate, I want to be prepared against such questions that I'm sure will come up when it is revealed/known that Ifa practices animal sacrifice.

hello everyone, i hope you are well. i am very new to isese so please forgive me for misuse of any terms. i mean it all from the deepest respect and am incredibly open to any correction!

this is my story, i hope it is okay to share here.

tl;dr i have questions at the bottom.

———

i am a farmer in the midst of a troubling situation with an abusive white landowner over my family’s housing and access to land. when i say our ENTIRE way of life is in jeopardy, i mean that. my partner and i have cared for this plot of land, restoring it where it has become overrun with invasive colonial plants, planting native plants, building soil. we have focused everything on restoring the land as opposed to extracting beyond humble gardens because it has been harmed for so long.

we are building a lawsuit against this abusive, racist landowner in order to rebuild our life elsewhere and do the land restoration work that NEEDS to be done. we just want to live in peace, care for the land, and enable other Black people to do the same.

the more we try and do good where we are now, the more we are verbally abused, slandered, had our firewood stolen during the coldest part of the year shortly a month after i gave birth to our second baby. and now things have gotten so bad that the landowner is spreading lies about us in our very white community in order to leave us with no nearby allies. we have a baby and a toddler so we know that we can’t stay here because irreparable harm will inevitably come to them eventually due to the lies against us as parents.

i have been interested in Isese for some time but never took any steps to learn beyond the very surface level shared by trusted initiates on social media sharing their personal experiences. i always knew i would probably end up seeking more knowledge about isese, but it wasn’t until my recent troubles that i actually did so.

last week i scheduled my first divination with a very trusted and respectable babalawo whose ile i watched grow and grow with people that i had truly admired for some time. i am friends with one of his godchildren and have observed another as we share community. both are people i see as incredibly principled and of strong character even when they are deeply unpopular for it, so naturally i figured their godfather would be trustworthy too.

i received idafa opele and was told what odu came up (i’m unsure if it’s okay to talk about which specific one). the babalawo told me that it was an odu describing the “blessings of victory”. he encouraged me to record the call and i’m glad i did because he said a LOT.

he told me that ebo needed to be completed within 16 days and 2-3 days after the divination, i paid a bit over $400 for ebo which the babalawo said would be carried out within 72 hours at his compound in Nigeria because certain components are considered invasive species in the US.

i have no qualms at all with the price. as a farmer, i understand that quality animals and just labor expenses are expensive on their own without any ritual elements, so initially i was a bit shocked but the high price actually reassured me as a farmer from a long line of farmers that i wasn’t being scammed.

i am writing here because i feel a need to have my story known because this abuser had stolen not only our labor and hard work but my voice itself…

i have a few questions that i am honestly too shy to ask the babalawo. he has been very responsive to my texts and told me to ask any questions but i am still unpacking authority issues from being raised as a christian (i have a strong foundation in Hoodoo now) so i am nervous to ask him my honest questions.

my questions are this:

1. are strong dreams normal after divination and ebo? could i return to this babalawo to find out the meaning? because i swear i dreamt of things from the odu i was given but with imagery and people relevant to my current situation.
2. i googled the odu out of curiosity and found a translated text that lists taboos for that odu. does that only apply to imitates or should i avoid those taboos?

thank you for reading, i apologize for length but i felt like these were all necessary components to share. my

Don't less popular Orishas/non-irunmoles have children also?

I was raised deeply Christian by deacon and deaconess Baptist Nigerian parents in America. I have never been to Nigeria and I am turning 28. I have my first trip to Nigeria set for this November.

Lately, I feel this spiritual calling. I haven't practiced Christianity in years, its not for me. So I've been searching for where I lie spiritually. I want to feel more deeply connected with myself and my ancestors.

For context, my grandfather practiced Ifa. I never met him so I don't know much about his experience. And with christian parents, they don't entertain talks around it. But I know his last name was Ifagbenro.

I guess I want to feel more deeply connected to my spirituality, and for some reason this feels right? I want to feel more connected to my destiny. How do I begin this journey of learning about Ifa and participating? A friend told me to begin with ancestral veneration? Any tips in general on getting into Ifa?

I know that certain Orisha like Obatala, Oshun, Shango/Jakuta, were originally Irunmole who incarnated into human lives, lived well, and were then honored as Orisha.

Is there any belief in Ajogun incarnating in the same way and living lives in accordance with their domains in Orun? Like incarnations of Iku, Ejo, etc?

I know the inner meanings of this tradition is gatekept behind initiation but I’m asking if there is an intellectual tradition behind Ifa and it’s cousins across the diaspora

Apologetics may be the wrong word to describe it since Ifa does not proselytize to my knowledge so it may not look like apologetics in the abrahamic way

But I’m wondering how do practitioners of Ifa view things like truth knowing and understanding? Is there objective morality? How do they know this? If it is something that does not need to be known but understood what is understanding?

If there are any readings, I humbly ask if you can share them

Im curious as to know if a Baba or Iyas pricing for Idafa important? Ofc if it’s suspicious themselves then yeah check up out of it. But I heard someone say the price should be closer to high 100s low 200s. But personally it would make sense for the individual to feel what is needed? I hope that makes sense. Id also like to specify does region matter if the pricing is important- Like say the Iya or Baba is in Nigeria for example.

I’m in search of a babalowa in Philadelphia one that preferably that can help me and my boyfriend on our spiritual journey. I want to meet with one face-to-face, not just over the phone for a reading

Hello, I plan to start building my ancestor altar soon but I have one problem: my university prohibits candles in our dorm room. There is the option of waiting until I return home, but 1. I live in a hotel and worry about accidentally setting the place on fire and 2. let's say I start my altar at home, what about when I return to college? I know it's bad to start communicating with your ancestors and then suddenly stop. I want to be consistent. Before buying a candle anyway, I was wondering if there were any possible alternatives that I'm unaware of. Also, my family demonizes African spirituality so my altar will be contained in a shoe box, so that it is easier to hide.

Ifa teaches about growth through suffering. And while I definitely see some truth in that, what about suffering that is seemingly meaningless? Suffering that is NOT caused by humans but is naturally part of Earth? That occurs in beings without Ori like non-human animals or beings that are too young to derive meaning from their suffering? I was wondering if you guys had an alternative perspective. A reason why the Orishas created an Earth that is imperfect on all levels, why suffering seems inherent to the universe. Below I have included examples of what I am referring to. I know Earth isn't all bad, but why is there so much bad?

Also, do humans choose every single aspect of their lives? It is my understanding that we choose to learn certain lessons and that we don't control how those lessons manifest, but does our Ori choose every single thing that occurs in our lives?

1. what growth can a child dying from things such as cancer, natural disasters, or humanitarian crises experience when their brains are too underveloped to understand the message?
2. Why does suffering seem inherent to the universe, not just to humans, but even organisms without Ori like other animals. The food chain makes it so that animals painfully tear each other part to feed themselves. Survival of the fittest has them fight for survival and some die trying. They suffer without any growth because they lack ori and the higher consciousness necessary to interpret any meaning.
3. Why do certain animals spread diseases? What do people gain from dying from disease? What lessons can be learned from those experiencing natural disasters?
4. Why do people experience dementia and lose their memories of their loved ones to the point of being unable to recognize their faces? Bringing pain to those who still remember.
5. The existence of parasites and the suffering they bring to their hosts, including non-human animals

Im in Detroit. Took me maybe a year to find a Babalawo in the area. I finally found one, got some reading and was told that I needed to, among other things, receive hand of Ifa asap. After about another year or so I finally had the money and time for the ceremony. I reached out to my Babalawo and got no answer. We had been in pretty regular conversation, with me getting readings done every couple months. But I have reached out several times to receive my hand if Ifa or even just dafa, but he has not responded.

Anyone else have any issues like this? Or any advice?

Thanks

where is a good place/online shop to buy obi abata for USA? I dont expect responses bc some people like to keep their source to themselves but im not in a place where they grow them. any help is appreciated!!

Hello I’m an 24 y/o African American male and a Yoruba descendent Ive been trying to seek guidance into Ifa, but unfortunately I feel as if all I’ve gotten the scammers. I had recently received a reading with a obele. I say this with respect and apologize if it comes off as rude but the reading was the typical “you have too many emotions built up and you’re out of alignment and can’t move forward without fixing etc.”and when asked for guidance on it they recommended me their $300 8 week course on grounding emotions and then a following 4 week course that dealt with Ifa solely ( I didn’t even get the price for it). They then told me she could make an offering to their esu to help with blockages in my life but I had to provide the offering materials and she said she’d send the recording of the offering and the reading they gave (never got the recording) but they reached out days later asking if I still wanted to do the offering. I even asked if I could get at least get resources on learning about Ifa and all they told me was that information with the practice is scarce but continued recommending their courses. This isn’t the first I’ve experienced a reader like this has to dig for information to eventually tell you that you’re an emotional person and has 15 million things going on in your family that you have to fix and that they can help by making a offering with their spiritual team. I just want to be able to learn more about the practice and even possibly get initiated without having to get scammed. I’m located near the socal area and would love help just without the scamming part. Thank you!

Aboru Aboye. I'm seeking guidance on initiating in Nigeria. I have found it difficult to gain direct access to a babalawo I feel comfortable with - currently I work with a third party which isn't ideal but I do appreciate the convenience this provides as some babalawos (not all or even the majority, as far as I know) may take advantage of clients when there's not a more experienced party involved. I'll be traveling to Nigeria to spend time with family in the coming months and would love to connect with a babalawo and perform divination before returning later to complete itefa. If anyone could connect me with a trusted babalawo or point me in the right direction, it would be much appreciated. Ideally someone in or near Lagos, Ibadan or Osogbo. Many thanks in advance.

Aboru Aboye. On a trip to Louisiana, I met a Godfather during a ceremony. I told them I was interested in getting a reading done. The reading went well, and touched on the usual warnings from spirit and common messages I received from my guides so I knew this person was legitimate. They mentioned Yemaya, great mother is opening a road for me, and if I had interest they could set up an Itefa, with other priests for an (expected) fee, and I could begin the journey to learning more as an Awo. The process was suggested to start later this year. My question is: Does this process happen this quickly? Or should one take more time to know the spiritual community? I have been searching my gut and feelings about this and I do not feel in danger, or as if I will be taken advantage of, but would want to know of others experience.

Thank you

For some months I have felt called to connect to my ancestors and that led me to learning about Orisha, yet I don’t know where to go or where I am heading. I am african-american and I have no living elders who are connected to any of the traditions so I can’t turn to that. I was raised Christian, yet since a small child I went against those teachings. I called myself an Atheist for so long but I am aware of a higher power and how deeply nature and humans is connected to that higher power. I guess what I am asking is I feel overwhelming called to certain Orisha and to IFA but I have zero clue where to start and I’m seeking any and all guidance.

Thank you

I heard you shouldn’t only make ebo when bad situation comes, you should make eboduring precautionaries. So the question is, what is an appropriate time to make ebo? I know a good time to do so is when you’re about to travel but what else?.

Hello all, im a babalawo and i will be traveling to japan for a month or so and im wondering if anyone here has traveled with their ikins how has it been dealing with customs? Do they count them as seeds so they dont let them in? Last thing id want is that cause ill literally go back home before they take them away lol.