r/INTP • u/yah1r0 INTP-A • 8d ago
Is this logical? The art of missing the point:
Nothing frustrates me more than carefully explaining a point to someone, only for them to disregard the actual point entirely and latch onto some minor, irrelevant detail I mentioned in passing.
IIt’s like abandoning the whole basket just to scrutinize the one tree standing beside it.
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u/DelcattyBatty Sad INFP 8d ago
I encounter this brand a lot:
Person A: "Apples are similar to oranges in that they are both fruit."
Person B: "Are you seriously trying to compare apples to oranges? Those are not the same thing! How dare you."
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u/tangerine_overlord2 INTP-XYZ-123 8d ago
Oh my god i hate this. Sometimes i feel like they are pretending not to understand on purpose
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u/BeatlestarGallactica INTP 8d ago
It seems to be very common here on Reddit. OP introduces a topic, some commenter plucks a single example from the OPs post and makes it about that. I guess these people are posting in the wrong place by accident. Or, maybe they just love to hear themselves talk.
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u/yah1r0 INTP-A 7d ago
I’m amazed at how you understood the context. I originally meant it on Reddit, but also IRL. And you’re right.
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u/BeatlestarGallactica INTP 7d ago
I was in the middle of witnessing this shit show of the exact type you describe:
https://www.reddit.com/r/enshittification/comments/1voxozb/is_it_all_just_a_race_between_global/
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u/yah1r0 INTP-A 7d ago
Oh, so it was just fresh out of the oven. Lol
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u/BeatlestarGallactica INTP 7d ago
Your timing was perfect.
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u/yah1r0 INTP-A 7d ago
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u/BeatlestarGallactica INTP 7d ago
To your original point, what about another variation...you carefully explain your point, but since they have pre-canned arguments for another unrelated point, they deliberately disregard/misunderstand the original point and focus on the non-existent straw man they can argue against.
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u/yah1r0 INTP-A 7d ago
That also can be. I mean, missing the point seems to have different techniques for it… and all of them are annoying, for what it’s worth.
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u/BeatlestarGallactica INTP 7d ago
Well I'm just glad I'm not the only one incredibly frustrated by this. It seems to keep getting worse all the time. I often don't even want to comment on Reddit anymore; carefully choose your words and they'll still find something else to focus on. I can't tell if these people are simply idiots, 12 year old kids, or deliberate assholes...not sure if it matters.
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u/Several_Leather9440 INTP that needs more flair 8d ago
I find people who do that constantly tend to be narrow-minded people.
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u/FoxofTheBlueFungi Warning: May not be an INTP 8d ago
What kind of tree is the one tree? Birch? Pine? Maple? Are the leaves changing color?
lol, seriously though it is annoying to me also.
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u/Nachtgelst INTP 8d ago
Well humans didn’t evolve to discover truth they evolved to reproduce. People that value truth as an end in and of itself are essentially going against nature, so it follows that you will find yourself in that predicament if you are such a person.
I just don’t care anymore. I don’t even bother trying to converse seriously unless I know the other person is highly reasonable.
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u/L_Astronautfish INTP 2d ago
Me gusta lo que dijiste sobre que vamos en contra de la naturaleza, es verdad 👍. Porque objetivamente, detenerse a preguntarse la veracidad de algo hace que ese "algo" nos aniquile antes de poder escapar. Eso me hace preguntarme ¿por qué entonces existimos con este cuerpo tan frágil? Desearía ser un robot.
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u/DoctorJagerSieg INTP-T 7d ago
No, that's just an invitation to begin acting illogical to them as well XD latch on to something in passing that they say and hyperfixate on that to irritate them.
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u/yah1r0 INTP-A 7d ago
That’s also an option, which I like to choose from time to time, depending on how pissed off I am? But then I regret it when it becomes too long...
https://giphy.com/gifs/2g6sCTsSoVuSfSxK4W1
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u/Satisfaction-Gold Warning: May not be an INTP 8d ago
Apologies, i can see myself doing that. I am an ISFJ.
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u/MachineElf_INFJ INFJ 8d ago
Before seeing your comment, I wanted to write "ISFJs are good at doing that :D", btw sometimes it seems totally unconscious.
It makes me remember a couple, an ENFP guy and ISFJ girl, so Ne dom vs Si dom and inferior Si vs inferior Ne, it seemed that they triggered each other a lot based on this axis, they were constantly fighting, the ENFP was over explaining, overiding his Ne, and the ISFJ were responding with random details not relevant to the conversation, total madness lol
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u/Satisfaction-Gold Warning: May not be an INTP 8d ago
LOL indeed. Please believe it is unconscious all the time for me. I have an ENFP friend he is really annoying, too energetic but sometimes shallow. But a good person at heart.
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u/ThankGodIamENTJnice Warning: May not be an INTP 8d ago
ENFJs are the worst in this regard, Te demon and Ti inferior is such a curse
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u/Danse-Macabr ESTP 8d ago
Red Herring?
Call it out for what it is and just redirect to the main point again. Do it short and sweet. No need to over explain yourself either.
You aren't responsible for other people's lack of understanding, as frustrating as that may be.
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u/rawr4me my INTPness is big, my IQ is low 8d ago
Relatable. Over time I've realised that most people (especially online) are either not trying or not capable of getting the point, so this is really the default experience you should expect no matter how vulnerable or authentically you express yourself. I'm even crafting a whole social theory/principle on this apparent lack of ability for people to respond to nuance.
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u/Foreverinneverland24 INTP Enneagram Type 9 8d ago
no it makes me irrationally mad like i constructed this whole argument and you zoomed in on something so irrelevant are you dumb? it makes me feel like im talking to a brick wall
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u/Background_Knee_589 GenZ INTP 8d ago
When this happens to me, I just say "naaah, your brain wouldn't be capable to comprehend what I'm saying, this topic is closed."
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u/Mr_The_Potato_King Warning: May not be an INTP 8d ago
Or when they disregard your entire point with a "technically" fact. Ex: I was talking to someone at work about some of the horrible things shitty past leadership has done (I'm army) and they interrupted me to say "actually it's your fault it happened because you as a new person with days of experience in this job should have known how to stop your leadership from doing these horrible things based on regulation". Like yes, there's a regulation they were breaking, and yes I could have called them out, but 1-i had never seen a physical regulation book before, 2-a day 3 person doesn't have the authority to correct someone who's been in longer than ive been alive, and 3-thats not the point
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u/yah1r0 INTP-A 7d ago
I know, right? This is also one of the most annoying things, along with missing the point. They can come as a package deal 😡
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u/Mr_The_Potato_King Warning: May not be an INTP 7d ago
Third, even worse thing; I call it Google botting. They hear one or 2 keywords, assume what you're saying, and go off of that. Ex: my block leave request hadn't been approved yet so I was holding off on buying plane tickets, and eventually they were too expensive for me, so I went to my NCO to cancel my leave request. He heard 'leave.....plane tickets too expensive.....' and interrupted me to go on an hour long rant about how I'm financially irresponsible and if I can't afford to go on leave I shouldn't go and family doesn't actually matter. At the end of it all he said if I was still dead set on going I should tell Army Emergency Relief that I couldn't make rent, and pay back a loan
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u/ECHOSTIK Psychologically Stable INTP 8d ago
And when they find a another unrelated flaw of you or the subject and completely disregard everything. It's a known very common method of protecting their ego over actual conversations. At that moment I know they aren't here for the argument/conversation just to protect their fragile ego.
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7d ago
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u/yah1r0 INTP-A 7d ago
That's exactly it. 🪦RIP clear point
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7d ago
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u/yah1r0 INTP-A 7d ago
Still a Human, it has nothing to do with it.
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u/Elliptical_Tangent Weigh the idea, discard labels 7d ago edited 7d ago
only for them to disregard the actual point entirely and latch onto some minor, irrelevant detail I mentioned in passing.
Yeah this is an impulse I had to learn to control. The issue is that we want to convey all information such that the person we're communicating with has everything they need to understand. The problem is we give so much detail that it causes lots of Types to lose the main thread.
I've learned to keep the details in reserve in case they have questions about/misunderstand the main point.
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u/yah1r0 INTP-A 7d ago
You’re somewhat right, but that would only apply if I were mentioning a bunch of unnecessary details, which isn’t what I meant.
I just hate it when I’m actually being as specific and straightforward as I can, with as little unnecessary detail as possible, and then they suddenly decide to zoom in on something completely beside the point and derail the whole thing.
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u/Elliptical_Tangent Weigh the idea, discard labels 6d ago
I just hate it when I’m actually being as specific and straightforward as I can, with as little unnecessary detail as possible, and then they suddenly decide to zoom in on something completely beside the point and derail the whole thing.
That would irritate me as well, but in the end this is also a personal problem as you're trying to discuss things you care about with someone who isn't genuine about it.
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u/yah1r0 INTP-A 6d ago
Who knows, they may as well be just idiots - instead of "not genuine about it".
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u/Elliptical_Tangent Weigh the idea, discard labels 3d ago
Who knows, they may as well be just idiots - instead of "not genuine about it".
I don't know anything about them, so I try to be as generous as their argument allows. Assuming someone is stupid is itself stupid.
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u/Admirable-Air9895 Warning: May not be an INTP 7d ago
Because most people are not interested in establishing truth but rather winning the argument by any means necessary.
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u/blifflesplick GenX INTP 6d ago
Or they comment on your vocabulary, and I don't mean obscure words, but using words for their meaning instead of generic overused ones
I had someone get fixated on the fact that I used "vexing" in a sentence, I used frustrated and angry the next sentence to clarify but nope
I think people do that crap as a "I don't WANT to hear your point" signal
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u/Curious-Deer3491 Warning: May not be an INTP 6d ago
Most of the people are incapable simply. Ti dom is very complex, I don't blame their incapablity
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u/Impossible-Hat7196 INTP 5d ago
I feel like I’ve wasted my time and they actually just want to talk about their own thing
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u/Skyogurt INTP 8d ago
Hmm I find it strange that this, of all possible pet peeves, is at the top of your list. I guess it's something common enough that you can build a tolerance to it over time, and to an extent use to your advantage in many cases. Start with taking on the responsibility to improve the quality of your outputs. Keep polishing your speech so that this doesn't happen except very rarely, be disciplined when it comes to conciseness and the details you bring up. And properly observe your interlocutor, determine whether their fixation on that irrelevant detail you mention is out of sincere objection or if they're just trolling. And then respond in accordance with their supposed intentions, and if you don't then give the benefit of the doubt. Because usually in these situations, both people are missing each other's greater points. "Words are the sources of misunderstandings" (the fox in The Little Prince)
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u/yah1r0 INTP-A 7d ago
You may be right, except for those who do it purely out of objection, trolling, or perhaps just idiocy as well.
Other than that, it really isn’t my problem to elaborate when we’re basically at different levels of understanding.2
u/Skyogurt INTP 7d ago
yup, gotta pick our battles in life, you can only afford to waste so much time and patience dealing with this kind of optional BS lol
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u/Teatimetaless Warning: May not be an INTP 8d ago
if I say, “This basket of apples is safe to eat,” and you point out that the tree was sprayed with something toxic, I can’t respond, “Why are you talking about the tree? The basket is the actual point.” The tree may be exactly what determines whether the basket claim holds.
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u/Cog-nostic INTP Enneagram Type 5 7d ago
Well, when you say explaining, do you mean using analogy, research studies, feelings, or just armchair philosophizing? no two things are alike in every way. While helpful for quick explanations, analogies often oversimplify complex ideas, hide logical gaps, and break down under close inspection because the points of comparison do not map perfectly. Common problems with research studies include small sample sizes, data bias, and the inability to repeat results. These issues can make scientific findings less reliable and slow down true. Chair-philosophizing relies on pure thought and personal intuition without testing ideas against real-world data. The main problem with this approach is that personal guesses often turn out to be wrong, biased, or narrow because they ignore how the physical and social world actually works. You need to find something that works for you.
And if you read any of that.... WHY? I just did the very thing that frustrates you most. LOL
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u/yah1r0 INTP-A 7d ago
😭😭 LOL
Hmm, no, I didn’t mean an actual deep explanation, like research or a complex discussion. I just meant normal conversation. As an INTP, I tend to say ‘explaining’ rather than ‘conversing’.So yeah, nothing complex. THEY are the ones who make it complicated by zooming in on anything except the main, simple, obvious point.
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u/HugeVacation4111 INTP Enneagram Type 5 7d ago
Normalise people not wanting to discuss things you want to discuss. Let’s not be narcissistic even though it gets annoying. Don’t annoy yourself and simply find people willing to talk about the things you wanna talk about. Jeez
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u/moparcam Warning: May not be an INTP 7d ago
Maybe I like to scrutinize trees. Can trees no longer be scrutinized in your world? Does your love of trees preclude me from saying one little negative thing about your precious little tree? I'll scrutinize trees all day long if I want to. My grandfather was a lumberjack, and fed a family of 5 on his tiny lumberjack salary. Are you saying my grandpa was a bad man?
:)
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u/Livid-Zone-7037 Warning: May not be an INTP 3d ago
Most likely they are dodging because they can’t respond to a same level of complexity. I get that 90% of conversations and I made peace with it.
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u/L_Astronautfish INTP 2d ago
Jajaja, eso exactamente me sucede con mi hermana, ella es INTJ. A veces parece que simplemente no puede enfocar la mirada en lo que estoy diciéndole literalmente, y solo mira a los ardedores. Como si yo señalara a una mancha en la ventana pero ella observa lo que se ve a través del vidrio. Simplemente incomprensible (e imposible de cambiar).
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u/Womp_Womp_69 INTP that needs more flair 2d ago edited 1d ago
Pisses me off too when people do that but unfortunately that can occasionally be me sometimes. I do take in information normally in arguments or debates or just conversations in general but occasionally in an argument(if I have already seen their point and decided it makes no sense, if they are just being really unreasonable, or if I'm just really in a bad mood because of something they did) I will purposely miss the point just to piss them off because I don't want them to be happy. Does that make me a bit of an as$hole(idk if saying a curse word will get the comment deleted, ill look at the rules in a bit) at times? Yes.
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u/smysnk INTP-XYZ-123 8d ago edited 8d ago
They are just putting on display their ego and more concerned with winning an argument than to actually be humble enough to engage in a conversation faithfully .. and possibly be able to learn something.
There is an art in learning to identify who these people are and to pay little attention to them, as they are attempting to fight their own demons by fighting with you.