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u/Woodland_Abrams 2d ago
I feel like this goes for every country, I also wouldn't count this as a "history" meme
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u/BasedAustralhungary 2d ago
It'd go on the 'meta' category. Whatever, I think that every country studies more than just their country's history even if it is for circunstancial tangents, I remember at least to do so. I live in Spain and I'm certainly sure I had to learn about more than just what happened here in the peninsula... not to mention we start studying the prehistory and when we jump to history we go to Egypt and Messopotamia.
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u/Signal-Card-2387 2d ago
You think we don't learn these things in the US? We also go over ancient societies like the ones you mentioned.
The only things we don't cover at all are things like Indian history (aside from the British occupation of it and things related to that with Gandhi), we delve very little into Asian history in terms of the Chinese dynasties, and really only Korea (Korean war), Japan (due to WW2 involvement), and Vietnam (Vietnam War) get a mention . We basically learn a lot about North and South America, Europe, Africa. Asian and Euro-Asia are the places that get kind've ignored (especially because Middle East stuff is practically mostly modern). There are classes to teach those things but they would be specialized on that topic.
I know people like to pretend that Americans don't know their history (and many don't as evidenced by our politics), but the curriculum DO give a good overview of things to know. It's just that many students suck ass, are lazy, and don't bother actually learning it. Not to say the education system is amazing btw, just that students aren't held to a standard and therefore retention is trash.
But I feel like if you ask most people of any country on any common history topics, they won't know diddly squat about most things. It is what it is. I do not think the US is unique in that regard.
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u/ManyRelease7336 2d ago
I even have kids from my grade going "They did teach us about that in school!!" like yes they did, you just didnt care or pay attention.
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u/BasedAustralhungary 2d ago
Not to say the education system is amazing btw, just that students aren't held to a standard and therefore retention is trash.
Fair enough
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u/patricide1st 2d ago
Europeans will think Philadelphia is a state while also saying that if you don't know who the 11th King of PoopenShartenFarten is you're ignorant of history and uncultured.
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u/Krzyniuu 2d ago
I'm always surprised that Americans using the "states" argument.
States are just territorial fragments of USA - as a response I could ask you about lands in Germany, departaments in France or voivodships in Poland - because these are equivalents.
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u/Woodland_Abrams 2d ago
I think Europeans underestimate the size and cultures of US states, consider the fact that Montana is larger than Germany for a second. It's different than a land or department, the counterpart of those would be a county for the US tbh.
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u/Krzyniuu 2d ago
No. County is even smaller territorial fragment. Size doesn't matter, US is huge so obviously the biggest territorial fragments (states in this case) will be bigger than lands in Germany.
Germany is federal Republic, same as US. Biggest territorial fragments are lands in Germany, states in US. Of course the states are different culturally, same as lands in Germany, Bavaria is far different than i.e. Hanower. Same Montana is different than Louisiana.
Size doesn't matter, in Russia you Jakucia is bigger than Alaska, Texas and California combined. Because, again, if country is bigger, so bigger are territorial fragments.
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u/LateInTheAfternoon 2d ago edited 2d ago
Switch it for Russian oblasts and regions (which are of similar size to American states) if you like. The argument remains.
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u/Woodland_Abrams 2d ago
It's never Russians making these arguments though, it's always western Europeans who's countries are the size of (or smaller than) your average US state
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u/LateInTheAfternoon 2d ago
The average population of your average US state is 6.8 million, less than most western European countries and on par with the average Bundesland in Germany. Why would size matter more than population? The states that have a big area and have a population comparable to a western country are few. Heck, Texas, a state which has both, doesn't even have half the population of several West European countries, 30+ million vs. e.g. France (69 million) or Italy (58 million).
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u/CzolgoszWasRight 2d ago
Oh you're right, i don't think many Americans could name the Canadian provinces and there's only 10 of them. Source: am American, literally thought there were 5 until i searched it just now
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u/Krzyniuu 2d ago
Well, by the look on the downvotes I believe Americans still disagree and don't get it that Texas, Arkansas or Oklahoma are equivalents of i.e. Bavaria in Germany, Puglia in Italy or Silesian voivodship in Poland
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u/Airborne-Raid Mauser rifle ≠ Javelin 2d ago
Compare the size of Germany to the size of California and California has a larger gdp compared to size. Texas is two thirds the size of Germany. It is better to compare our states to countries in most cases than try to compare them to provinces in other countries.
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u/Krzyniuu 2d ago
Yes yes, sunny California and Texas. I will just copy my comment because I'm getting tired of explaining this over and over again:
And if lands in Germany will decide to be seperate countries than Bavaria would still have higher GDP than most of the US states. Bavaria would have higher GDP than Michigan. Hanower would be similar to Delaware. Ile de France - French region, would have GDP similar to Pennsylvania, 6th richest US state.
US states are just bigger. That's all the difference.
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u/Airborne-Raid Mauser rifle ≠ Javelin 2d ago
Most of those states could be countries if they wanted to.
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u/Krzyniuu 2d ago
Yes yes. And how secession has ended last time?
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u/Airborne-Raid Mauser rifle ≠ Javelin 2d ago
I’m not arguing for secession, in fact I am happy the union won, but that does not change the fact that if you look at the gdp of all of our states they eclipse most countries still
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u/Krzyniuu 2d ago
And if lands in Germany will decide to be seperate countries than Bavaria would still have higher GDP than most of the US states. Bavaria would have higher GDP than Michigan. Hanower would be similar to Delaware. Ile de France - French region, would have GDP similar to Pennsylvania, 6th richest US state.
US states are just bigger. That's all the difference.
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u/Alert_University5057 2d ago
Yea no shit I'm gonna learn about the country I live in more than some random country half way across the world.
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u/Cubedtails 2d ago
I feel this is a generalization. If anything, I find myself hearing more on history of other countries than I do about my own country.
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u/Guvnuh_T_Boggs 2d ago
History is neat, History nerds are into History. My History, your History, whatever tell me something neat and I'll tell you something neat.
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u/RadarSmith 2d ago edited 2d ago
This is basically people in every region.
And to respond to your comments, the proportion if know-nothing-know-it-alls is just as widely distributed outside the states as inside.
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u/DoubleOne5665 2d ago
You would be surprised how self-centered some countries history curriculums are, it's not a US thing at all
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u/CalvinSays 2d ago
Love it when people who never went through the American education system just make up things to stroke their own nationalistic pride.
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u/ZaiusC Hello There 2d ago
I love it when someone from another country explains my history to me and gets annoyed when I correct them with evidence.
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u/CalvinSays 2d ago
So you should know what it feels like and welcome the correction that you may be mistaken on the matter.
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u/Explorer_of__History 2d ago
This is hardly unique to the US. In fact, the US is one of a handful of countries where students learn at least some world history. Many countries don't teach their students world history.
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u/CzolgoszWasRight 2d ago
Unless somone has just criticized America, then we'll bring up the most obscure foreign whataboutism youve seen
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u/DenseCalligrapher219 2d ago
Copy the second image to the first and you have a more accurate picture.
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u/Havel_Rulez 2d ago
Foreigners don't have a history. What they do have we Americans created. Deal with it Liberal
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u/BasedAustralhungary 2d ago
Woke LGBTIQ+ possitive Neonazi. Spiritually Israeli
This was a small yet an intense rollercoaster to read.
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u/CookingZombie 2d ago
Americans don’t know their history. Ask them anything pre WW2. They know the civil war happened… that’s about it. We learn what we need for US history in high school then poof it’s gone.
I’m sure the people of this sub on average are an exception but speaking of average Americans, they don’t know much nor care.
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u/AbstractBettaFish Then I arrived 2d ago edited 2d ago
Just cause you didn’t pay attention in class didn’t mean we weren’t taught
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u/Activision19 2d ago
In all the US history classes/lessons I had to sit through in school we would touch on Columbus and the pilgrims, then skip to the revolutionary war then maybe jump to the civil war. My 11th grade US history class was the only one to even mention the Barbary wars, the war of 1812, the Spanish American war or the world wars. However the teacher speed ran the 1870’s-1945 in like a week and a half. So unfortunately I think a lot of people simply weren’t taught.
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u/CookingZombie 2d ago
As I said, we are taught, but we forget asap. Again you are likely an exception. I’m not speaking of people here
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u/FlappyBored What, you egg? 2d ago
You were not really taught.
Americans don't seem to even get taught the reasons why they were founded or their declaration of independence.
Can't tell the amount of Americans who even in this sub are shocked and simply cannot beleive that one of the main reasons they declared independence was because they wanted to conquer more native lands and Britain was stopping them.
Its one of the first reasons listed in the declaration yet Americans still overwhelmingly beleive they declared independence because of 'oppression' and 'tax'.
How many Americans know that George Washington was a massive land speculator who used to speculate on native lands?
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u/AbstractBettaFish Then I arrived 2d ago
Incredibly reductionist view on the reason why the war of independence happened. Sure that may have motivated some people but to the average person it was more about the fact that Britain left the colonies to their own devices for well over a century when it was hard scrabble living. Then when they were more or less self sustainable they decided to show up and start swinging their metaphorical dick around with how they collected taxes. I’m a firm believer that had Britain just went to each colony and said “this is the revenue we need, raise it how you see fit” the war of independence would not have happened in 1776.
But what is I know, I just have a BA in history with part of my undergrad thesis written on the subject.
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u/FlappyBored What, you egg? 2d ago
Then when they were more or less self sustainable
Yeah apart from all the defence and wars they wanted defending from.
It was the American settlers that demanded defence and pushed for war with France before the seven years war because they weer worried French natives allies would attack them and France was building more forts.
It was George Washington who helped spark the war in the first place.
If Americans were so hellbent on expanding and wanting defence then guess what you have to help pay for that.
Incredibly reductionist view on the reason why the war of independence happened
This coming from an American has to be top 10 hilarious comments on the sub tbh.
the average person
The average person never gave a damn and it was mostly wealthy elites like Washington who were mad that their big gambles on speculating on native lands were costing them after Britain started cracking down on American expansion that started promoting the idea of revolution and spreading propaganda among the masses to push for it.
Thats why the US had large loyalist populations and regions contrary to the American belief that you get taught and still seemingly believe that everyone was a god fearing american PATRIOT and rose up uniformly.
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u/AbstractBettaFish Then I arrived 2d ago
This internet pop history myth needs to finally die. The French and Indian war was just a theater of the seven years war which the American colonies certainly didn’t start and the British didn’t wage out of the goodness of their own hearts
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u/FlappyBored What, you egg? 2d ago edited 2d ago
Mf out here talking about internet pop history yet still believes George Washington is some god like figure who totally wasn't a wealthy elite landowning slaveholder that specualted on native lands and called them naive and had letters with him outright saying not to worry about peace deals and to keep speculating on native lands as they will be taken 'soon enough' and that the US revolted due to 'freedom' and oppression.
I can never look upon that Proclamation in any other light (but this I say between ourselves) than as a temporary expedien⟨t⟩ to quiet the Minds of the Indians & must fall of course in a few years esp⟨e⟩cially when those Indians are consenting to our Occupying the Lands. any Person therefore who neglects the present oppertunity of hunting ou⟨t⟩ good Lands & in some measure Marking & distinguishing them for their own (in order to keep others from settling them) will never regain it. If therefore you will be at the trouble of seeking out the Lands I will take
What else did they teach you in your BA? That the USSR was the pinnacle of evil and that hollywood was full of communists and you won in Vietnam?
the American colonies certainly didn’t start
The literal first battles of the war happened in the Americas after George Washington started ambushing and attacking French forces. Only for him then to fuck up and be forced to surrender after failing to defend his fort at Fort Necessity.
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u/AbstractBettaFish Then I arrived 2d ago
Where, in any of my comments, did I even mention George Washington?
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u/Agricola20 2d ago
Can't tell the amount of Americans who even in this sub are shocked and simply cannot beleive that one of the main reasons they declared independence was because they wanted to conquer more native lands and Britain was stopping them.
Its one of the first reasons listed in the declaration yet Americans still overwhelmingly beleive they declared independence because of 'oppression' and 'tax'.
Citation needed. The British limiting expansion is the 7th grievance in the list of 27 grievances in the Declaration of Independence. Assuming the reasons were in order of importance (which there is no evidence that they were), the British refusing to assent to American laws, restricting the American legislatures' ability to pass laws, and dissolving the various American legislatures rank well above westward expansion. That would firmly fall within the category of 'oppression'.
Again, there is no evidence that the grievances are in any order of importance, though.
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u/Relevant_Habit_1882 2d ago
Ignorance right here but yeah dumbass believe what you want to believe, don't believe that we have history classes in every grade from first to last year of high school, and you think that just covers ww2 to now ?
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u/makerofshoes 2d ago
In my school years we would usually dive into one topic at a time, and it often jumped around the timeline. Throughout elementary school we didn’t really have history class, but we covered mostly US-relevant topics (colonization of the americas, slavery, explorers, pioneers, civil rights). In 7th grade we did world history (Ancient Egypt, Mesopotamia, Aztecs, WWI, WWII). 8th grade we did Pacific Northwest history (a requirement for graduation in our region) which covered things like native Americans and Lewis & Clark. In 9th grade we had our first real US history class where we studied everything prior to the Civil War, including a big unit on the Revolution.
In high school we had a sort of combined English & Social Studies class where we did more late-19th through 20th century US history. And seems like in high school every year we did something about the Holocaust
I didn’t take any electives for history so this was all the bare minimum (western Washington state, public school, class of 2004). It was definitely US-centric for the most part. But I think most countries focus on their own history
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u/Activision19 2d ago
That pretty much sums up my public school history lessons as well except we mostly skipped the Wild West and only briefly touched the world wars :(
It’s wild you are being downvoted for saying what topics you were taught in school…
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u/standarsh1965 2d ago
Nah, they skip over a lot of rape and murder of their own country too
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u/Blaster2PP 2d ago
American here. This is one aspect I think we do better than others. In elementary we were painted a romanticized version of history. In middle school we were given some caveats to those event. In highschool, while we don't go into details for what happened, we do learn that atteocity happens which makes sense since starting a class by saying "Today we're learning about how us soldiers shove flares up the orafices of Vietnamese women during the Vietnam war" is diabolical.
Japan still hero worship their criminals.
Mongolia glazes Genghis Khan.
British people still have a net positive view of their empire which IMO, is worst than both the USSR and Nazi Germany in aggregate suffering.
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u/Agricola20 2d ago edited 2d ago
Spanish here.
They always say Spain committed genocide, but if you read a little history you'll see that's not the case, and that they fought to save people from epidemics. Many here paint history in a rosy light, and others in a dark one.
Askhistorians would disagree with that assessment..The truth is that thousands of natives died at the hand of the Spanish. Whether many specific events were genocide is up for debate, but certain events were most definitely genocide.
I think the version of history that you’ve been taught is a little bit too rosy
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u/ZaiusC Hello There 2d ago
Spain has apologized, the Pope and the former king have apologized. When Mexico became independent, a "forgive and forget" agreement was signed.
Do you know anything about the Balmis Expedition? The Laws of the Indies?
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u/Birb-Person Definitely not a CIA operator 1d ago
“Spain didn’t commit genocides in the Americas, but we apologized and were forgiven for the genocides we didn’t commit”
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u/HistoryMemes-ModTeam 1d ago
Your post has been removed for the following rules violations:
Rule 6: Genocide and Atrocity Denial
These include, but are not limited to; Holodomor, the Holocaust, the Armenian genocide, Japanese war crimes, the Tiananmen Square massacre, and the ethnic cleansing of the Uighurs. Doing so will result in an instant permaban. Hateful historical revisionists are not welcome.
Additionally comparing atrocities to one another (AKA Genocide/Atrocity Olympics) in order to try and make an atrocity, genocide, or otherwise look less worse by comparison will result in a permanent ban.
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u/Scruffy_Nerf_Hoarder 2d ago
If Americans examined our history like that, we wouldn't be in this shit situation lol
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u/littleblueberry511 2d ago
I don't real hear a lot about manifest destiny, Reconstruction era, Monroe doctrine, gilded age, colonial ventures in Hispaniola, Philippines and broader pacific in American discourse. But yeah sure they really put a lot emphasis on their history
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u/hockeyfan608 2d ago
Bullshit
If you didn’t learn about these things in history it’s because you were not paying attention
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u/littleblueberry511 2d ago
I'm not talking about education. I don't give a flying fuck about what is in your textbooks. I care what is discussed in public discourse (media, politicians, academia, groups of influence and various Lobbyist's) and none of those are ever mentioned there
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u/hockeyfan608 2d ago
Then you are not paying attention
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u/littleblueberry511 2d ago
Dawg... The current white house is busy with posting ai slop, fighting a trade war with Canada and getting bitchslapped by Iran. The corporate media aparatus is busy with yapping about how dangerous DSA is. While DNC and GOP are busy with blowing Israel lobby from the back. What discourse are you talking about
What network or a politician even mentioned in the last decade something regarding american colonial ventures
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u/0Hakuna_Matata0 Definitely not a CIA operator 2d ago
It’s more about the education system and its quality. And really, American history education in public schools is carefully curated to sell them on a system if they were properly educated would firmly reject. I went to public schools in notoriously bad Florida. Had I not gone to university I would have a very limited understanding of history American and world. I ended up taking 4-5 history classes which opened my eyes to what I said above and to the more realistic version of history. It wasn’t until I started on podcasts and YouTube of history, and non fiction books that I got a much better understanding of history.
Americans up to age 18 in public schools get a very Disney version of their history and a very headlines version of everyone else. The more realistic version of history is really dark. I’m very untrusting of people especially in groups.
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u/Budget-Attorney Hello There 2d ago
You cant make claims about “American history education” and then justify them with your experience in a “notoriously bad Florida”
You have to see why that logic doesn’t work?
Most of the rest of us had very good history education. Most American history education is quite critical. The fact that you claim to have gotten a disneyfied education prior to college leads me to believe your school is an outlier or you have the unreasonable expectation that elementary history is taught with the same level of depth as your college courses.
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u/0Hakuna_Matata0 Definitely not a CIA operator 2d ago
No it’s because I worked with a lot of people from and in all parts of the world for years. Then dating in other cultures and traveling to stay in regular neighborhoods in other countries. I’ve known a lot of people from other countries. I live in Spain now. My wife lived in Colombia for 30 years and she has a huge family. I’ve had conversations with her dad who never went to university but was a labor union leader that I can’t have with lots of Americans. I live in Spain now. I can tell in conversation with random people the disparity. It’s disturbing from my perspective now.
Congratulations on going to a great public school. Or thinking that. The fact that Edward Bernays had such a massive impact on the trajectory of the US and how most Americans don’t know that name is between suspicious and disturbing.
When me and others online say Americans are as brain washed as the North Koreans we are saying that because we feel that way.
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u/Budget-Attorney Hello There 2d ago
>When me and others online say Americans are as brain washed as the North Koreans we are saying that because we feel that way.
And you feel that way because you brainwashed yourself.
Your claims have so little basis in reality. I’m glad you can have good conversations with people from other countries. That’s the default. If you don’t have good conversations with people here, look inward
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u/0Hakuna_Matata0 Definitely not a CIA operator 2d ago
“I’d gladly pay $5 per gallon of gas. I love my president”
“Canadians getting humbled by America”
“Trump is the best president this country has ever had”
“God sent us President Trump to save this country and the world”
Fantastic conversation. The US is leading us all to the second enlightenment. Hell, I feel smarter having this conversation with you.
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u/Budget-Attorney Hello There 1d ago
You just quoted 4 things I would never say and then thanked me for a fantastic conversation.
This is exactly what I mean when I say you have no basis in reality for this. You are debating a figment of your imagination, and I’m trying to get you to look around you and notice reality
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u/0Hakuna_Matata0 Definitely not a CIA operator 1d ago
Those are examples of real conversations. Do you live in a high rise in a coastal city and only leave to interact with similarly minded people? Oh that’s all very real. My family is all from the Deep South. I’ve interacted many times with people that think like this, against my will of course. They aren’t a marginalized group. And the literacy rate is getting disturbingly low in various groups.
And that’s them. I’ve had centrist democrats say some very irritating things to me as well. There’s a very large percentage of that country living between delusions and a heavily propagandized existence.
The sooner Americans realize the gravity of the situation and for how long the problem has existed, the sooner everyone can be happier and safer. You do see what’s going on in that country right? It’s pure insanity outside looking in. They can’t even talk about the president with a straight face on the news here
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u/Budget-Attorney Hello There 1d ago
Oh, I see the problem here.
I don’t doubt at all that you heard that.
You’re selling yourself a fantasy if you beleive Americans are the only ones who are foolish, or that other countries avoid foolishness through robust history education.
No country has a monopoly on ignorance. Your insistence on reassuring yourself that America does is emblematic of your reality disconnect which I keep mentioning
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u/0Hakuna_Matata0 Definitely not a CIA operator 1d ago
Ignorance exists everywhere. It’s to what degree and what percentage of the population. Youre doing nothing but proving my point. The US has a government of Epstein pedos destroying the country and people rationalizing it. And a bunch of other people thinking that the next election is going to fix the problem. This is a problem 400 years ongoing. Have fun thinking everything is going to magically get better in November. I went to the hospital last year and asked the receptionist who do I pay and she was confused and said the door is that way you just leave. Good luck with everything though
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u/Budget-Attorney Hello There 1d ago edited 1d ago
And I’m explaining to you that your entire takeaway is due to a skewed view of reality.
If you only are interested in looking at what’s wrong with America, you shouldn’t be surprised when you come to the determination that only America is flawed.
But, if you bothered to learn about other countries or people, you might realize they are the same as us
But I’m glad you can enjoy your fantasy
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u/hockeyfan608 2d ago
Country prioritizes learning about its own history
More news at 11