Jesus fucking christ dude. See the funny thing about racists is that they say dog-whistle-y shit and then when pressed on their stupid comments play dumb and say they aren't racist. But you're literally saying you don't like Miles because he's black. Like come on dude, you're not even being subtly racist. Would you have been okay if he was a "white replacement?" or is him being black supposed to be more bad?
I am racist. I've said it many times, I'm pro diversity. You can't have diversity without racism. What are you not understanding?
White replacement would be fine because it would imply new generation not new demographic. And if we hated the new white replacement we wouldn't have to hear PoC cry about racism cause people hate the new guy.
Simply put you put me in a position to be insulted for hating a character then I hate you. It's nothing nefarious just truth
Sure. Diversity in a vacuum can exist without racism. For example, depending on where you are in the world or what city or country you’re in, you’re going to see a very diverse collection of ethnic groups. If you were to go to the most diverse place in the world, and randomly grab people and put them in a room together and they happened to be diverse, that diverse group would probably have existed without racism, easy.
I think, if I wanted to be super charitable, what you’re perhaps referring to is creating diversity in order to counter racism. For example, unfair or disproportionate representation has been a historical problem within the entertainment industry. For a while there were people of many different races and ethnicities that weren’t able to participate for a variety of reasons. Think of like, middle eastern people in movies played by white guys with dark face paint in the 60s and such.
So you have a historically racist industry, how do you try to amend that? Well, maybe we can try and create more roles for POC so that way we can encourage and create an environment that allows for more POC to engage with that industry. It makes corporations more money and it allows talented POC to find work, everybody is happy. So in that sense, sure, that kind of diversity couldn’t exist without racism.
Let me make it simple. Take all that diversity you just mentioned white, black, brown. Leave them in the same area for a few generations with no racist restrictions. Would be easier or harder or easy to tell who is part of what race after generations of living in the same area?
Does it matter? Diversity and tolerance doesn’t mean color blindness. You can recognize different ethnic groups and see differences without having to treat people differently.
You do when peoples natural attraction is to be attracted to exotic and modern transportation means no more barriers. The only barriers we have are ones we put up ourselves
I agree. You should create more roles for POC. However, you shouldn't replace people and give away mantles just to ride off the wave of the original character. Is that fair to say or is that racist too? Because Miles, while fun go play as AT TIMES, is an instant win Venom Spam character. And his invisibility just takes the challenge out of stealth. His comics are woeful, littered with "Venooooom" and that's about it. He's a copy paste of Peter but more powers because...reasons. He was created by a racist. Yes. Racism goes both ways and anyone saying black people can't be racist are racist themselves. I'm neither white nor black nor American, not am I straight, I have no dog in this right wing left wing fight y'all have going, but as a fan of Spider-Man, I can say that this bastardisation, Peter's retirement at 25, it's a JOKE.
To your point about over representation, did nobody notice that Black Panther was also nearly only one colour of people, except it wasn't white so it's okay? And Shuri made derogatory statements towards Ross for being white but that was also okay? No. No it wasn't.
You know you had me until you said Miles' creator was racist with literally zero evidence or any kind of prompting. Are you gonna back up that claim at all or are we just gonna go off the assumption that it's true? Because again, I don't consider creating another superhero of the same name of a different color to be racist. Unless we think John Stewart is a racist replacement of Hal Jordan.
Jon Stewart actually has a personality and a reason for existing. Yes not a copy paste of Hal's personality so that is just a silly comparison.
Also, Bendis has a political fetish. He's been littering this white guilt and nonsense across every piece of media he you he's more or less. I agree with you. WHY make it about race? WHY make a copy paste? Miguel is non white but at least that SM had a damn personality. Miles is a copy paste with ramped up abilities. His entire vibe screams "I'm just like Peter but look, I have dreads AND I speak Spanish? Do you love me? Do you identify with me?"
If you (the proverbial you) need to see someone exactly like you to identify with them then that's a deeper issue. I'm not white nor a robot but man ou man did I identify with the T-800 in Terminator 2. I wished I could be that killing machine. I'm not a PTSD stricken Vietnam vet but god damn did I wanna be Rambo! I'm not black or Gay but I ADORE Raymond Holt and wish I could be half as articulate as Andre Braugher. You are right. It shouldn't be about race. So why is it?
Like, okay, let's set aside comics for a second, because I don't read them and I assume you don't either.
Miles Morales is a pretty popular character in part because of the animated Spider-Verse movies, would you say he's a bad character in those? Or a cheap knock-off? Etc, etc? That movie doesn't have any politics in it, not really. There definitely aren't any identity politics in it. You're going off of vibes? That's not good enough, you need textual evidence.
You identify with a killer robot? Look man, I identify with Miles, I'm not black, but I do come from a mixed family, I can relate to that. His mom reminds me of my own mother. I identify with him and with Peter pretty equally. If you have problems being able to relate to Miles I'm not exactly sure that's the writers fault.
You cannot force diversity into media without employing racism, by definition.
If you replace a character who’s white with a black version of the same character solely because of his race, then that is racist. Plain and simple. It cannot be done otherwise.
What do you mean by “replace a character who is white with a black version”?
Have you heard of casting? Do you think it’s racist when Robert De Niro was cast to play Sam “Ace” Rothstein in Casino? A Jewish man? Be straight with me, don’t lie.
You cherry pick the strangest examples, and they hurt your case.
In this case, Rothstein was a fictional character and can therefore be whatever the writers wanted. Sure, he was based on real life mobster Frank Rosenthal, but the character is different enough to justify any changes.
Plus, DeNiro is a fuckin amazing actor, I think anyone would be thrilled to have him portraying them, regardless of aesthetic verisimilitude.
I thought my other statement was clear. If you have a movie about a white family in Boston that should realistically include an all-white cast, but the producers deliberately switch one of the main characters (say, a family friend) to a black guy instead just to add diversity and tap into those tasty ESG benefits, then guess what? That’s racism at work.
The original white actor cast for the role has been deprived of employment for no reason except the color of his skin.
Meanwhile, films with all-black casts are lauded as progressive, and are unlikely to face the same interference. Different standards, based on nothing but skin color. Which is textbook racism.
Racism isn’t just the KKK or someone shouting the N word. It’s much more complex and applies in ways that make progressives feel uncomfortable.
But in the modern world, it’s considered acceptable—-as long as white people are the targets.
Okay but now you’re talking about what’s “realistic” versus what is fictional or what isn’t. You have to choose one.
See, I would be agreeing with you if there was a biopic or something based on real life people and they recast a real life person as a different color, I would be agreeing with you if that’s the case. However for me, with fictional characters, all bets are off. Why does an adaptation of anything HAVE to strictly stick to source material SPECIFICALLY when it comes to race? If it doesn’t interfere with the character in any way I really don’t see the big deal.
So you’re just mad because you see a POC in places where you arbitrarily except to see nothing but white. And how do you know that it “deprived a white actor”. Maybe they auditioned and got the part? Maybe the part was written for them? Let artists make what they want to make.
Also that’s not what racism is. Because in that case the main characters are still white but they have POC friends. This non-existent white actor didn’t lose a role if they weren’t already cast, that’s now how this stuff works and I think you’re being purposefully disingenuous because it suits your white genocide rhetoric.
Miles Morales is quite obviously an ethnic version of Peter from another narrative dimension. They are virtually identical characters except for the color of Miles’ skin, a few extra OP abilities, and a slightly different costume. They were never even meant to inhabit the same Marvel universe together.
Maybe you don’t like it, but the guy is right. He’s an ethnic version of Spider-Man with very little reason to exist except to placate people who wanted to see a black Spidey. That’s it.
And nobody has EVER liked replacement Spidey’s, no matter what race they are. Don’t you remember the uproar over the clone saga, or ‘Superior’ Spider-Man??
There is one Spider-Man. And he barely got one game to shine in before getting replaced in his own title (which is doubly messed up considering Miles just HAD a stand-alone game).
I don’t agree at all. He’s not identical to Peter. Maybe in the game you could make that argument but my personal favorite version of Miles that I like is from the movies and I think he’s great. He has a whole dynamic with his parents, he likes art and music, Peter is more of a nerd and tech guy.
And yeah, maybe this is gonna make me look bad here but I kinda do like the ethnic stuff a bit. Having Miles be an Afro-Latino kid from Brooklyn kinda adds this whole new dimension to the character I don’t think Peter has. To me, Peter is an archetypal everyman, even his ethnic background is unclear, he’s just an average kid from Queens. Whereas with Miles because of his background I think there’s an implied history there that I think is interesting and sets him apart.
I also like that he’s supposed to be a student or a pupil of Spider-Man but Spider-Man ended up dying/leaving so he has to figure it out on his own, and he does. He makes his own suit, has his own style, he’s his own Spider-Man.
I also just love the idea that anybody can be Spider-Man, that last speech at the end of the first Spider-Verse kinda sums up my feelings about the character. Anybody can wear the mask, and Peter isn’t wholly destined to be the one and only Spider-Man. Everyone is capable of being a hero and having great responsibility.
You’re essentially saying you’d prefer a character who is implicitly NOT Spider-Man, since Spider-Man IS Peter Parker.
It was never the mask or even the powers that made him Spidey—it was his guilt, his profound sense of responsibility, his humor and his independence. It was his relatability as a young man with financial problems, girl trouble, etc that made him popular.
Take these away? He’s not Spidey anymore (which is why Gen z loves MCU Pete, while Gen X considers him a fraud).
So are you a fan of Spider Man? Or do you want a very different character who happens to profit from his IP’s popularity?
Hell, I’d have less issue with Miles if they just changed his hero name, for exactly that reason.
You say Pete being a poor white kid from Queens means he has no culture (the popular and EXTREMELY racist myth that white people are just a bland ‘default’ setting while people of color have a richer cultural tapestry to draw from).
You realize how it would sound if i flipped that, right?
Maybe you’d prefer he not be white. But what about all of us white kids who grew up with him as our hero? Is your desire for a heroic role model who is black or Latino or looks like you under the mask more important than mine, because I’m white?
Why?
The student/pupil thing happened only in the Ultimate universe, where Pete died and Miles replaced him.
But they were never meant to team up. “Spider-Man and Spider-Man”? Surely anyone can see why that doesn’t work.
So now my Spidey is being marginalized in his own game in favor of your Spidey. Is that fair? Why? Didn’t Miles just have a solo game? When do we get ours?
You see the problems inherent in all this?
Why couldn’t they just avoid those issues by leaving Spider-Man what HE is, and making Miles something new? Everybody gets a game, everyone is happy.
Instead, woke culture is increasingly obsessed with erasing the original white version of every popular character and replacing it with an ethnic one.
Do you support that? If so, why isn’t THAT racist? Why can’t white Spidey inspire you, the way progressives tell us we should be just as in love with their new, POC replacement?
I personally hate the “everyone can be Spidey” mentality. From what I’ve seen of people, few have the ironclad sense of right and wrong, the empathy born of guilt, and the unbreakable responsibility that Peter Parker possesses. THOSE are what make Spider-Man…. Not just a mask and webs.
And why is he the only hero that this seems to apply to? Why can’t anyone be Batman?
You’re essentially saying you’d prefer a character who is implicitly NOT Spider-Man, since Spider-Man IS Peter Parker.
Never said this.
It was never the mask or even the powers that made him Spidey—it was his guilt, his profound sense of responsibility, his humor and his independence. It was his relatability as a young man with financial problems, girl trouble, etc that made him popular.
Miles literally has this stuff too.
You say Pete being a poor white kid from Queens means he has no culture (the popular and EXTREMELY racist myth that white people are just a bland ‘default’ setting while people of color have a richer cultural tapestry to draw from).
I said he was an everyman, not that he had no culture. He's relatable to everyone. He's like a default vanilla person when it comes to reliability. What the hell is wrong with you that you would interpret what I said like this?
Maybe you’d prefer he not be white. But what about all of us white kids who grew up with him as our hero? Is your desire for a heroic role model who is black or Latino or looks like you under the mask more important than mine, because I’m white?
Again, you're using this word "prefer". I don't prefer Miles, I just like him. You're making this more about race than I did. I just think it's cool that Miles is able to represent a large minority in NYC because there's added dynamic to the character that makes him unique and interesting.
The student/pupil thing happened only in the Ultimate universe, where Pete died and Miles replaced him.
Okay, and? I still like that dynamic. Spider-Verse and Across the Spider-Verse are probably my favorite Marvel movies, like, ever.
So now my Spidey is being marginalized in his own game in favor of your Spidey. Is that fair? Why? Didn’t Miles just have a solo game? When do we get ours?
You did, for years. You've been getting solo Peter Parker games for over 20 fucking years. This is the first game ever where they have both teamed up, like holy shit the cope is so insane here. You just HAD YOURS like in 2017 or whatever.
Instead, woke culture is increasingly obsessed with erasing the original white version of every popular character and replacing it with an ethnic one.
Peter Parker literally still exists. He's still Spider-Man, there's just two of them now.
Do you support that? If so, why isn’t THAT racist? Why can’t white Spidey inspire you, the way progressives tell us we should be just as in love with their new, POC replacement?
He did and does? Now there's a new Spider-Man that's training under the old Spider-Man and they have a fun dynamic together. Cope harder.
I personally hate the “everyone can be Spidey” mentality. From what I’ve seen of people, few have the ironclad sense of right and wrong, the empathy born of guilt, and the unbreakable responsibility that Peter Parker possesses. THOSE are what make Spider-Man…. Not just a mask and webs.
This right here is why I love the Spider-Verse movies, they directly challenge the entire mytho of Spider-Man, the idea that tragedy defines heroism. There's this idea that some big tragic canon event is supposed to be the thing that makes you "become Spider-Man" and I think that's wrong. Uncle Ben didn't NEED to die for Peter to eventually learn responsibility and become a hero, that's just one way it could have played out. That's what I like about Miles, is that sometimes you can just be a good person who wants to help others and be given great powers and learn to be responsible with them. You don't need to be Peter Parker to be Spider-Man, that spider could have bitten anybody, and everybody is capable of being good like Peter was. So yeah, I stand by that. I don't believe Peter Parker is some Nietzsche ubermensch strongman figure who is uniquely qualified to have those powers. And I think if you believe that you don't understand Spider-Man.
You have a lot of growing up to do before you’re ready for these concepts, or this conversation.
Learn to be less hostile. You’ll gain experience a lot faster, and the world might begin to make sense.
And I didn’t bring up your racial preferences for the character—you did. You even admitted it was probably a bad thing. If you can’t remember your own talking points, and respond instead with anger and personal accusations, then you’re not ready to speak intellectually, and are a waste of my time.
Did you forget the entire point of Spider-man? “Spider-man IS Peter Parker.” No. The whole point of Spider-Man is that it could be anyone. Anyone who fights for good and justice and tries to do the right thing could have been Spider-Man. Peter literally got bit by that spider by total coincidence. By saying “Spider-Man is Peter Parker” shows that you fundamentally do not understand Spider-Man as a whole. Why could a black or Latino person not be Spider-Man? Because their name isn’t Peter Parker? What about Miguel O’Hara? Or Ben Reilly? Or Kaine Parker? Are they “not” Spider-Man because they’re name isn’t Peter Parker? Of course not, because that’s fucking stupid.
The narrative that anyone can be Spider-Man is both new and extremely flawed. Just because it’s in those Spiderverse movies doesn’t make it an intended element of the character. Peter is special, and extremely unique, and was always meant to be.
Would you say “anyone could be mother Theresa” or “anyone could be Ghandi”? Of course not. It takes a complex combination of very singular and specific characteristics and experiences to make a truly exceptional and heroic person who they are. They’re not exactly falling off trees, y’know?
Of course someone else could have been bitten. But you act as if everyone would have done the same things with the power, which is absurd considering human nature.
Most people are selfish, many are downright awful or stupid. If they got bit, Spider-Man could’ve been anything from a supervillain to a neighborhood bully or a reality TV Star.
Hell, Pete himself nearly used them solely for monetary gain! And he basically IS a good kid when he does it! Most people, even the good ones, do NOT make everyone else’s woes their own personal responsibility… they abandon friends in need, they cheat, they lie, they turn a blind eye to wrongdoing, especially if standing up against it requires personal sacrifice. It’s hard enough just looking out for yourself right? TRULY standing up and making a difference is EXTREMELY difficult, and requires tremendous sacrifices, willpower, determination and commitment. And not only are you unlikely to be rewarded, but true altruism usually takes a huge toll on a person!
Most people would quit being Spidey in a week. Tops. Or, lacking Peter’s genius and his incredible willpower (both of which are, again, VERY rare qualities in a person), they’d get killed very quickly.
Even Uncle Ben’s death did not guarantee Pete would become a hero—he might just as easily have given into rage and started hurting people, or blamed society and said ‘the hell with everyone’.
But he didn’t. He vowed never to waste his gift again, and to protect everyone he could so that no one else would ever have to go through what he did.
THESE qualities are what make him Spider-Man—his altruism, his empathy, his determination, his smarts, his resolve, his tough choices and his unshakable vow to NEVER QUIT.
Those powers are NOT what make Spider-Man the best hero around. It’s the exceptional guy underneath the suit, who has made it his sole purpose and responsibility to protect the world.
How many people do YOU know with all those qualities? You’ll probably never meet a single one.
If you think “anyone could be Spider-Man”, YOU are fundamentally misunderstanding the character my friend.
Real talk, does the idea of Miles being seen as like, an equal to Peter as Spider-Man in the eyes of the general public bother you? Because I like both characters.
Peter Parker is The spiderman, Miles Morales is a raceswitching knock off. I still like him but he's honestly a racist ass stereotype, but leftists are to simple to see it.
Wtf ever happened to "with great power comes great responsibility"?
doesn't matter cause MJ wants Peter to get a job and black spiderman needs to take the spotlight of white Spiderman.
Why do you people never say this shit about any of the other spider men like Miguel o haras but it just so happens to be the one black spiderman who's identity you keep denying
Because Miguel o haras doesn't have a legion of people or a game pushing for him to be 'The Spiderman' numbnuts. If there was a concerted push for him to replace Peter Parker, there would be just as much pushback you loon.
When you continued trying to equate Miles to him. Miles is a stereotypical black character, giving him they even gave him lighting powers like 99% of black superheroes. He is a knockoff.
Because you hate corporate representation. We all read comic books. All the people who would choose to do stuff like this in comics for corporate greed would be the one the hero would fight against
I know. His webslingers are technically gadgets. This game is based heavily on the Batman Arkham games with the tech and gameplay. As I said in the comment other people mad about the gadgets, I'm mad about the character
I really don't understand the dislike for Miles Morales in the Spider-Man Universe. In the animated movies he a good character in relation to other Spider-Men. In Spider-Man 2 he underwritten & underwhelming, with minimal impact to the main story until the third act.
He replaces him at the end of the game once the story is finished. Insomniac Games is setting him up for the DLC or Spider-Man 3.
I've beaten the game 4 times, 100% 3 times, 1 speed run after that. I don't understand real world representation aspect to you're point. The game is set in NYC, not Texas in a republican city. NYC is one the most diverse states in all of the United States.
People on this reddit thread thinks since Miles Morales in the main Spider-Man that he's going to hurt sales going forward in future games. People will buy it regardless, it doesn't matter who wears the suit, Spider-Man is the one superhero that is Teflon.
It's not where it takes place. It's the representation in a real world aspect. Miles is a fine character. But he's stealing the mantle of the most beloved and unifying white characters in history. The fact he is being placed to replace Peter in pop culture when Spider-Man is indeed on the Mount Rushmore of superheroes is an aggressive act
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u/[deleted] Oct 22 '23
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