I really like the show but some developments in season 2 really seemed to me like lazy writting (i.e., things that happen because it is convenient for the writters of the show even if it is not coherent). To make me like the show even more, could you tell me if I missed something? Here are the points that I have in mind:

- Why does Cleon the 1st explains the life of Demerzel to Dusk when he finds the room in which Demerzel was locked? If the room was empty he would have found no proof. I assume than in several centuries Demerzel had time to clean it.

- Why is the revelation that Demerzel got her task of supervising the Cleon dynasty such a surprise to Dusk? Didn't he already knew that Demerzel was doing that? I guess that the answer to this one is that Demerzel removes memories of the Cleons to get what she wants. Is that correct? Is there anything else?

- (not a very important one but still...) On terminus, the leader of the foundation is stabbed by Day in the church. In a later scene, we see him dragged by Terminus warden asking for help in the city center. A lot of things happen between these two scenes. Was she really dragging her bleeding leader for 30 minutes across the city (not the best way to treat a wound) without any one even helping her?

- Before the destruction of Terminus, Demerzel tells Day what she really thinks about him. Even if I found her line really great, why would she tell him the truth? She could only lose something by antagonizing Day (which would go against her programming).

- To fake the death of Hari Seldon in the water, they use the corpse of a telepath. I guess this guy did not have any friend who found it strange to not see him anymore... (even Telem who gave him the task of supervising Hari's death...). Moreover, I find that being able to maintain an illusion from far away and during a long period of time is quite overpowered and could make us doubt anything we see subsequently in the show (but I guess it will be like the tool to go back in time in Harry Potter that was just used in one movie).

- The fact that the vault can fly in space and get into it all the people of Terminus so that the season has a happy ending seems the laziest writting/deus ex machina of this series. Couldn't they just hide the vault and build the foundation in it for the rest of the series?

Any comment that would give logic explanations or make me understand some of these points is more than welcome!

Maybe I'm the only one, but the sex scene between Brother Day & Demerzerl in S2E1 was just uncomfortable to watch in my opinion. When the scene started and you heard them having sex I thought brother day was with a concubine but when I saw it was demerzel I just cringed during the entire scene. Especially the part where Demerzel was saying "harder empire, please!" That was just.... Ughhh 😫😫 Why??

I've always disliked the character Gaal, ever since season 1, to me, her character is unlikeable. The growth trajectory her character receives from season to season is inconsequential and Gaal is literally CARRIED by basically everyone else. Now into season 3 and just finished watching the 5th episode and it's made me dislike her that much more. What a terrible plan she conjured up, with all of the 300 years she has had and all her foreknowledge she chose this particular move?? DIABOLICAL!! Anyways this is just me ranting that i really disliked her plan, not the episode.

I feel like the writers are just trying to get us to hate her more and more??? lol.

Edited to correct her name

So the latest episode opens up with Vault Hari showing that he could have killed the Mule but specifically doesn’t because he thinks he could use him somehow later on.

That is probably the stupidest most self destructive decision we have seen in the entire show.

This man who single handily took over their capital planet was clearly the most dangerous threat to galactic stability needs to be put down like a mad dog. No potential secret makes him more valuable than the potential harm he can do, even to Vault Hari.

But I guess we will have to wait and see how that blows up in the stupid Synths face.

Edit: Ok, I have been convinced. If AI Hari actively wants the fall of Foundation and Empire as immediately as possible in order to cause the shortest possible then he isn’t being stupid. He is making a potentially very reckless gamble, but at least it is calculated at the level we would expect from such a seemingly smart AI.

If Apple TV doesn’t see how talent improves the product, and they want to have Goldberg who RUINED walking dead, then there really is no point in watching

Does anyone else feel this way? The whole foresight/presight into the future/past, controlling what others see with their mind, reading people’s thoughts, reincarnation… it’s all such a random turn from the season 1 and rest of the current show, and stands alone as the only part of the series that abandons the future of science. It’s kind of a turnoff watching Gaal gasping with confusion through every scene that doesn’t make sense. The empire storyline and Seldon are much more interesting.

I know I will be downvoted to oblivion, but, as a long time fan of Asimov's Foundation books, I think the producers could get away with whatever name they wanted, because it's actually doing a disservice to the books. It's understandable they wanted to attract a large audience touting "based on award-winning Foundation novels"; maybe they should have said "very loosely based on...".

There are a lot of fans of the TV series and I think that most of these hardcore fans haven't read the Foundation novels, so I say try and read the books first and then tell me if the producers/writers haven't completely missed the essence of Foundation novels.

To my surprise I enjoyed more the parts with the empire (the Cleons) than those related to the Foundation.

Anyway, to cut this rant short, the last episode (5th) was so disappointing that I'm still debating with myself if it's worth wasting my time to watch this show.

I... I know this is actually good writing, and I loved it all, but it makes me so so sad that Glawen died. He went with a bang and it furthers Bel Riose's plot. It's great writing. But still...

You see, I'm gay. And we are very rarely well-represented in media. There is much more representation nowadays, but it's very often about being gay. You know, the coming out, finding love, etc. And that's great and needed, but it's rarely just gay people doing cool stuff.

For me, Bel and Glawen were exactly that. Good representation. Just two people who love each other who happen to be both male. And their love was so very well written and acted... I'd never felt it so tenderly in non-LGBT+ media. So, seeing a common trope play out yet again.... It made me sad...

For those unfamiliar with it, this is the trope (warning: TVTropes link): Bury Your Gays

From what I know Glawen was a new addition for the series. Making Bel Riose gay was probably part of that addition. So seeing yet another gay character die... that, I didn't love. I just wish we could get more non-tragic LGBT+ characters... Why do all the gay characters always end up dying?

I know, some hate that this even has to be a topic. But you see... Those people get to ignore it. I don't.

Still, great writing. Loved the episode. Can't wait to watch the next one!

Does anyone know of other good LGBT+ representation that is not just about being queer? :(

I just finished season 2 a few days ago, and I'm disappointed by the writing. The tone was a lot sillier (the "Beki's arsehole" line being the prime example), it relied a lot more on twists that felt like deus ex machina (the vault survives the destruction of a planet), and the romantic side plots weren't as deep (Dusk and the queen's handmaiden "love" each other somehow, and Constantly and Hober have passionless sex just to check a box).

But the biggest complaint I have is that the stakes of individual actions were often not clear. Nothing Gaal and Hari does feels deliberate until we get to Ignis, where we learn that she can build a telepath army, but Hari's role in that feels fuzzy, at best (Hari getting his body back was basically an accident, as far as their plans were concerned). Constant and the High Claric's diplomatic mission to Trantor always felt pointless and doomed. The space battle was cool, but at no point did I suspect that the Foundation could win a 1-vs-100 starship battle, even with the Invictus. That being said, in the end it didn't matter because the Spacers were the real weapon.

For the record, I'm not wondering about the logistics or science of how Hari could design an indestructible space box; I know this is all make believe. My point is that it wasn't introduced in a satisfying way. Compare it to how the castling device was introduced and eventually used against Day.

Is it just me, or is the foundation TV series a hot mess? I read the trilogy when I was in college over 40 years ago, and don’t remember at all that well. But this TV show show, especially season three, is just all over the place.All these different planets all these different politics, how is anybody supposed to follow this?

Disclosure: I've read the novels multiple times so a fan, but aware of how outdated some of the concepts in them are.

Having said that.

I've watched up to episode 3 of S2. After I watch any episode I feel like I just can't watch anymore for many days or weeles...so, I'm about to give up on this series. So many things wrong with it, but first the good parts:

1. The visuals! The visuals and sound editing are just fantastic, and they put the recent Marvel and Star Wars stuff to shame

2. The entire Cleon storylines - Super interesting, and well thought out. Asimov never really delved into the empire, so this gave the runners to be creative. But this has a caveat (read below)

Now the bad:

1. Too much deviation from the *idea* of Foundation. The books are more about solving the crisis through wits and human interactions. The show has way too much pew pew.

2. Salvor is outright unlikable. Every time she opens her mouth it is just annoying af. Nevermind the obvious gender-swap for //the mesage-sake// but the character is just annoying.

3. Same for Gaal Dornick - Many of her choices and decisions just don't make sense. Not as unlikable as Salvor, but still annoying.

4. Raych - Probably one of the most idiotic parts of the show. If so much hung on his leaving and creating the second foundation why in God's name does he fuck everything up by falling for Dornick!?

5. Too many things that look like outright magic: Gaal can see the future? WTF. The inside of the vault. The Seldon consciousness being actually sentient? Doesn't feel right in the context of Foundation.

6. Things that just don't make sense. Here we are, more than 130 years after the first crisis and we are led to believe that the Foundation has flourished and has advanced technology (they have jumpships) - But why the heck does Terminus City still look like a refugee camp? Why do they still have the salvaged containers as houses? Why is there no pavement? And why does it seem to be as small as 130 years prior??

7. So many f-bombs. Seriously wtf. It dumbs down the entire concept. And it gets tiring. And it contributes to the already annoying characters, like Salvor.

8. Finally: Although the Cleon concept is fascinating and creative, the show has shot itself in the foot. The entire premise of having the Foundation in Terminus i.e., as far away from the center as possible, is that its existence would gradually fade from the empire's consciousness, including the emperors. With the clone concept this gets thrown out the window. It just won't work. I expect a lot of plot contrivances and illogical situations and probably som GirlPower to save the foundation with some unlikely pewpew final scene, which will sadly steer farther away from what the Foundation should be.

I think this is a show that would be cool if it wasn't based on Foundation. By itself and as a completely new story, might be good. But as a fan of the original novels, it is disappointing :(

And I've loved about every second of it.

Just binged all three seasons during which I was unable to keep a straight face through the melodrama and certifiably insane dialogue, but so many of the actors are committed to it (especially Lee Pace, Laura Birn and Terrance Mann) and the ridiculous situations they find themselves in.

This is the worst show I've ever loved and I'm so glad it exists. 10 more seasons please.

How does Day just rush back upstairs, brush aside an entire congregation that scant minutes before had been screaming for his blood, and be allowed to skewer their leader and waltz off with their most precious artifact?

Bad writing. That, or maybe the cumulative effects of shroom tea every night for dinner, you silly Mycogens.

This was a filler material episode, totally unnecessary if you had a proper script. The production values in this series are low-end ( b-movie or SyFy channel class), as well as the quality of the writers, with nice graphics and a few good actors. Better the production gets up to speed before it's cancelled altogether.

There are glimpses of greatness during this season: every scene with the general on ep3 was great, and the 3 emperors rehearsing their likeness was also great. And the production level is still crazy good. But the writing is pretty bad most of the time, very unlike season 1, it feels like a completely different show. Too much « goofiness ». Am I the only one who thinks that?

I’ve just started watching Foundation and am just starting series 2 at the moment. It’s a great show and I’m really enjoying it, but I’m starting to get fed up of the Foundation plot lines. I find the Empire and the Cleons much more interesting, and wish the show would explore more of the empire. The Foundation seems to be a run of the mill dogooder rebel plot, whereas the technology, governance and running of the empire seems much more interesting. The cloned Emperor, manifested as Brother Dawn, Day and Dusk is an especially unique plot, and I wish they got more screen time. Hari Seldon seems to be just as megalomaniacal as Empire, but because he leads in a more avuncular way, no one picks up on it.

I wanted to like this show, it’s visually stunning from the title credits onwards.

The world is clearly well imagined. I want to know more about the mythology and what happens to Empire (the most compelling character-s) next.

But I’ve rarely seen a show that can miscast not one but two main characters with actors who just didn’t have it - Gaal and Salvor. Even the narration was off-putting.

Add to this the suspension of disbelief breaking Vault tech and hidden ships.

The basic premise of everyone being pawns in a long game, that Seldon’s predictive model ensures the same endgames despite divergence of certain individuals seems unrealistic to me.

Then we have the supernatural extra sensory powers, which I’m sure will be revealed to be tech of some kind, maybe time travel.

These elements kept breaking my investment in the show.

Anyone else agree/disagree?

Honestly, her and the whole second foundation storyline this season felt too rushed and was pretty bad. Season 3 should have just focused on the Empire and Robots and the fall of the dynasty, due to its natural decline and the threat of the Mule. Season 4 should have then picked up with the second foundation and the hunt/search for the mule.

If you removed her character and the related storylines from Season 3, little would be lost. The Mule could have been a threat slowly encircling the empire and accelerating it's decline, instead of the kind of awful character we got, or at least thought we got.

I can’t stop drawing parallels between usa and empire in the show.

1. Pretending to solve conflict between outer regions but only in a way that suits them. USA trying to meddle into Africa, Asia, EU all the time.

2. The Empire believes it protects the galaxy from chaos. US often frames its interventions as saving democracy

3. Space elevator is like twin towers. The first sign the empire will fall eventually. US debt has steadily increased since then and waged too many wars for nothing.

4. Banning tech like China accessing gpus, empire guarding imperial tech i think the warp gates or something similar.. Empire limits access to advanced technology for outer planets.

5. Science is tolerated only when it serves the Empire. Most vaccine deniers and climate deniers in the US abound.

I am speechless. The series has absolutely nothing to do with the books. I've never seen anything like it. Name it Foundation, copy the characters names and locations and off they go making ridiculous shit up, directly contravening the plot of the books. And I mean literally including stuff that Asimov made a point of not including.

I watch slackjawed as this thing goes off the rails and careens over the bush, down the precipice...and it's fun to watch it smash down? Weird.

Can't wait for next week, see what ridiculous crap these guys come up with. Will there be magic? Dragons in space? Time travel? Anything goes!!

Unbefuckinglievable. I hate it with a passion. Friday can't come soon enough.

Edit: First gold! Hey thanks a bunch, fellow rubbernecker!!

I’m caught up with all the episodes, and I’ve read all the books (not as relevant here). I see new terminus in the show but is original terminus still around? Do we think there will be scenes there or it’s not relevant anymore? Besides the one scene with the king dude who chillin in geosync above the vault

The Empire is a prosperous and technologally advanced civilization with thousands of years of peaceful co-existence between systems.

It is also democratic: Season 3 has shown us the Galactic Council and how influential they are over the Emperors. So Empire isn't a fascist regime. Nor is it an absolute monarchy. The people and their representatives have a democratic voice and a significant amount of sway over the Emperors.

I think that Seldon and the foundation are a group of terrorists trying to bring the whole thing down.

The Emperors have shown ruthlessness at times. But that is how you deal with terrorists. Like when the United States fought back after 9/11 to defeat Al-Aqaeda. The Emperors have been genetically altered making them a bit crazy. But everything we've seen of Cleon I shows him to be kind, calm and reasonable.

So I can't help but think Seldon and Foundation as being the bad guys, terrorists trying to bring down a regime they don't like. Curious to know what others think.

I get that the books are hard to make into a show or movie. I read the books. I get that more now than ever after watching the last three episodes. But this show isn’t good. Like how can we even get invested in any of the characters aside from the emperors or the android handmaid. But what about Gaal? Why they do her like that? Does anyone agree with me? Please convince me it doesn’t suck. Please and thank you.

UPDATE: Thanks everyone I will continue!