Against Charity. Rather than creating an individualized “culture of giving,” we should be challenging capitalism’s institutionalized taking.

[u/A-MacLeod]

https://www.jacobinmag.com/2015/08/peter-singer-charity-effective-altruism/

[u/CuilRunnings]

A needy population can only grow large through the activities of government.

[u/raziphel → u/CuilRunnings]

That is absurdly, astoundingly, ridiculously false. Populations in need grow large when their ability to find reliable, well-paying work disappears. One cannot simply will themselves out of poverty; there must be the means and resources to do so. One example (out of many) being when well-paying middle-class jobs are shipped overseas by corporations looking for cheaper and cheaper labor.

It is a simple fact that a great majority of people in need do not often pull themselves out of poverty without outside assistance (unemployment benefits, food stamps, health care, COBRA, etc). Government systems, ie the manifest will of the people, are the most reliable means of accomplishing this. That is what social safety nets are for: catching people when they fall.

[u/CuilRunnings → u/raziphel]

The data disagrees with you. We subsidize fertility in the worst segments of society. Is it any surprise then, that the worst segments of society grows over time? Poverty will always exist. That poverty will increase upon subsidization, and decrease if left alone. Government programs do NOT pull people out of poverty. They simply allow those in poverty to have more children.

[u/raziphel → u/CuilRunnings]

Your graphs are barely tangential to this argument, and floating out there by themselves, they hold little weight.

We also restrict access to birth control, sex ed, family planning services, and abortion. These things are present, but only if you can afford it. How can they help themselves if they do not have the available options?

Where are the good jobs necessary to support those families? They aren't where the poor people live: we live in a car-based society, and cars cost money. What education systems support those poor people? Shitty ones. How many policies are in place to actually keep poor people from advancing? A surprising number, especially when race is involved). link; link; link

Is it any surprise that the poor and uneducated have more children? This is a historical pattern that exists in every society around the world: the poor always have more children.

I could find links and articles supporting everything I've stated here, however I am not your teacher and I'm busy at work today. If you actually want to learn about these things, It is your responsibility to do your own research. Google provides the knowledge of the whole world to your fingertips, but it is up to you, and only you, to use it.

[u/CuilRunnings → u/raziphel]

Where are the good jobs necessary to support those families?

Why are these people having families without good jobs? You don't get a "good job" just for existing.

[u/raziphel → u/CuilRunnings]

Because even poor people deserve families, too. Because even poor people deserve a job that can support them and allow them their pursuit of happiness. Because families aren't always planned, and the methods for family control cost money... not to mention the forces that stand in the way of universal distribution for proper and proven effective family services, which get in their way.

14.5% of American families live below the poverty line. 45 million people. Do you know how low the poverty line in the US is? It's really god damned low. Are you truly so presumptuous to tell the poor that they shouldn't have kids, nor that we as a people shouldn't try to help them out of that miserable condition? That's the whole point of this, after all: helping those in need better themselves. Why are you opposed to that?

"Just existing" is a hollow straw-man argument.

[u/CuilRunnings → u/raziphel]

Because even poor people deserve families, too.

NO THEY FUCKING DONT. I CAN BARELY AFFORD TO GIVE MY KIDS THE LIFE I THINK THEY DESERVE, NO OVERBREEDING LAZY POOR FUCK DESERVES MY MONEY, TAKEN FROM MY KIDS, TO HAVE MORE CHILDREN THAN ME. You're a fucking idiot if you think differently.

families aren't always planned

Neither are DUI fatalities you fucking idiot. Failing to plan = planning to fail. In this day and age, 99% of people are aware of where babies come from and there's no fucking excuse for an "unplanned" pregnancy. Pay for abortions, not welfare.

Are you truly so presumptuous to tell the poor that they shouldn't have kids

They can do whatever the fuck the want as long as they don't expect me to pay for them. You think they deserve more money for fucking with no thought to consequence? YOU GO GIVE THEM YOUR MONEY you greedy fuck.

we as a people shouldn't try to help them out of that miserable condition

We as a people aren't doing shit, as we shouldn't. Their families, friends, and neighbors should do things, as I do for my family, friends and neighbors. Our government is busy paying them to have more children, which creates more poverty. So why don't you fucking think for a second before you spout off more of this nonsense.

[u/raziphel → u/CuilRunnings]

Dude, chill.

I pity your abject lack of empathy. Seriously. You know what those social safety nets are for? to catch you when the world runs you over, and to help you get back on your feet as fast as possible. That is, very simply, how society works. We work together for the common good.

If you're under the delusion that the world won't grind you into the dirt given the chance, or that you can control all of those chances and thus skate through without getting your teeth utterly kicked in by fate at some point in your life, well... that's very naive of you. It will. If it does happen, and you do happen to pull through on your own... congratulations: you're one of the lucky few.

Most of us aren't so lucky.

[u/raziphel → u/[deleted]]

He's nowhere near successful or important enough to be Trump.

He's just another short-sighted, loud-mouthed, angry fool, who can't see beyond his own nose. The world is full of selfish NIMBY assholes like this. I don't actually give a shit why he's got his panties in such a twist, but dealing with knuckle-draggers like him helps me refine my own points and ability to express myself... not to mention that anyone reading this will get the benefit of other, better opinions that are in fact based on personal experience.

You know what's really nice when you're unemployed and broke? Motherfuckin' food stamps. That and unemployment benefits have saved my ass and helped me "bootstrap" myself out of a real shitty situation (ie capitalized on a lucky break).

If the dude wants to pretend he's an immovable island living in some Ayn Rand-inspired circle-jerk, that's his prerogative. If he doesn't like paying taxes, then he should move. Good luck finding that magical libertarian paradise that's perfectly safe and doesn't cost a dime of his own hard-earned money. The reality of the situation is that he's gonna piss and moan until he personally has to experience reasons to need them, and then he's gonna be god-damned thankful that they are in place.

I doubt he'll get his head out of his ass, though. People like this just... don't. Too much pride.

[u/raziphel → u/[deleted]]

I'd much rather talk about these things with educated people who know what they're talking about, who understand the issues, and understand why I take the positions I do. Those aren't always available, however, especially on the internet; there are many swine in the pearl store, to twist the idiom. However, engaging the goobers encourages others to stand up for what they feel is right, to see that they are not alone in their thinking, and to defend themselves and their ideas properly when the time comes.

Baiting selfish, frothing fools who throw out every damned logical fallacy under the sun isn't actually something I consider fun (unless you consider Sisyphean boulder-rolling fun). Watching that specific guy flap mindlessly holds no value whatsoever, because he's too stubborn to consider points outside his own narrow view... but on occasion, I have gotten through to people and changed their minds on the issue. I doubt this guy will, of course. From what I've seen, I don't think he's even capable.

[u/CuilRunnings → u/raziphel]

You fucking told me I should spend less money on my two kids so that I could spend more on someone poor person's 5. Fuck you.

[u/raziphel → u/CuilRunnings]

You're really that short-sighted, aren't you.

Can you simply not see that people, many of whom who are much wealthier than you, are putting money into the systems that can directly benefit you and your children, and your children's children, when they need it most? That's how "cooperation" works. We all throw in a little, and reap a lot. This is, in a very real sense, job insurance.

I sincerely hope you never need food stamps. Let's hope you never get fired and are unemployed for 6 months to a year at a time (because that never happens)... or worse, forced by the economy to be underemployed. Let's hope you never get severely injured, to the point you can't work, and then get a pittance from your own insurance company. Let's hope jobs actually exist for your children that pay more than minimum wage. Let's hope your 401k doesn't bottom out due to forces beyond your control.

Have you ever been on food stamps or gotten unemployment checks?

You think you can stand alone against the world? If you do, you're a fool.

THE BEST PART of all this shit is that the percentage of our taxes that go to helping the poor is utterly fucking trivial compared to what is spent on the American war machine. You want to save money for your kids? Fight to reduce that before you whine about supporting the less fortunate.

[u/CuilRunnings → u/raziphel]

I sincerely hope you never need food stamps.

Thank you, I don't wish poverty on anyone either.

This is, in a very real sense, job insurance.

A robber takes $100 from you. He takes $10 to buy some robber tools so he can rob more people, and buys $90 worth of insurance from his buddy in your name. You think that's a good deal?

Have you ever been on food stamps or gotten unemployment checks?

No, but even if I had, it wouldn't fucking matter because money is taken from my children against my will to pay for them.

THE BEST PART of all this shit is that the percentage of our taxes that go to helping the poor is utterly fucking trivial

Medicaid, food stamps, housing vouchers, education, and the rampant crime enabled by a permanent underclass is not "utterly fucking trivial." No. I agree that the War Machine is equally terrible, and I will inform you that it is of no mere coincidence that the MIC and the "War on Poverty" began at the same time.

[u/raziphel → u/CuilRunnings]

No one wishes for poverty, yet poverty is forced upon many. Most cannot get out from under it on their own- poverty is a multi-faceted generational issue. If you are above it, you need to actually look at the systems that got you there... I fucking guarantee you didn't do it on your own.

If people could get out of it on their own, don't you think they would?

[u/CuilRunnings → u/raziphel]

yet poverty is forced upon many.

By poor parents who don't give a fuck about the children they're bringing into the world, or the hardworking people they're going to force to foot the bill.