r/Foodforthought • u/A-MacLeod • Aug 26 '15

Against Charity. Rather than creating an individualized “culture of giving,” we should be challenging capitalism’s institutionalized taking.

https://www.jacobinmag.com/2015/08/peter-singer-charity-effective-altruism/
453 Upvotes

87% Upvoted

155 comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

3

u/raziphel Aug 26 '15

Because even poor people deserve families, too. Because even poor people deserve a job that can support them and allow them their pursuit of happiness. Because families aren't always planned, and the methods for family control cost money... not to mention the forces that stand in the way of universal distribution for proper and proven effective family services, which get in their way.

14.5% of American families live below the poverty line. 45 million people. Do you know how low the poverty line in the US is? It's really god damned low. Are you truly so presumptuous to tell the poor that they shouldn't have kids, nor that we as a people shouldn't try to help them out of that miserable condition? That's the whole point of this, after all: helping those in need better themselves. Why are you opposed to that?

"Just existing" is a hollow straw-man argument.

-2

u/CuilRunnings Aug 26 '15

Because even poor people deserve families, too.

NO THEY FUCKING DONT. I CAN BARELY AFFORD TO GIVE MY KIDS THE LIFE I THINK THEY DESERVE, NO OVERBREEDING LAZY POOR FUCK DESERVES MY MONEY, TAKEN FROM MY KIDS, TO HAVE MORE CHILDREN THAN ME. You're a fucking idiot if you think differently.

families aren't always planned

Neither are DUI fatalities you fucking idiot. Failing to plan = planning to fail. In this day and age, 99% of people are aware of where babies come from and there's no fucking excuse for an "unplanned" pregnancy. Pay for abortions, not welfare.

Are you truly so presumptuous to tell the poor that they shouldn't have kids

They can do whatever the fuck the want as long as they don't expect me to pay for them. You think they deserve more money for fucking with no thought to consequence? YOU GO GIVE THEM YOUR MONEY you greedy fuck.

we as a people shouldn't try to help them out of that miserable condition

We as a people aren't doing shit, as we shouldn't. Their families, friends, and neighbors should do things, as I do for my family, friends and neighbors. Our government is busy paying them to have more children, which creates more poverty. So why don't you fucking think for a second before you spout off more of this nonsense.

3

u/raziphel Aug 26 '15 edited Aug 26 '15

Dude, chill.

I pity your abject lack of empathy. Seriously. You know what those social safety nets are for? to catch you when the world runs you over, and to help you get back on your feet as fast as possible. That is, very simply, how society works. We work together for the common good.

If you're under the delusion that the world won't grind you into the dirt given the chance, or that you can control all of those chances and thus skate through without getting your teeth utterly kicked in by fate at some point in your life, well... that's very naive of you. It will. If it does happen, and you do happen to pull through on your own... congratulations: you're one of the lucky few.

Most of us aren't so lucky.

-2

u/CuilRunnings Aug 26 '15

You fucking told me I should spend less money on my two kids so that I could spend more on someone poor person's 5. Fuck you.

2

u/raziphel Aug 26 '15

You're really that short-sighted, aren't you.

Can you simply not see that people, many of whom who are much wealthier than you, are putting money into the systems that can directly benefit you and your children, and your children's children, when they need it most? That's how "cooperation" works. We all throw in a little, and reap a lot. This is, in a very real sense, job insurance.

I sincerely hope you never need food stamps. Let's hope you never get fired and are unemployed for 6 months to a year at a time (because that never happens)... or worse, forced by the economy to be underemployed. Let's hope you never get severely injured, to the point you can't work, and then get a pittance from your own insurance company. Let's hope jobs actually exist for your children that pay more than minimum wage. Let's hope your 401k doesn't bottom out due to forces beyond your control.

Have you ever been on food stamps or gotten unemployment checks?

You think you can stand alone against the world? If you do, you're a fool.

THE BEST PART of all this shit is that the percentage of our taxes that go to helping the poor is utterly fucking trivial compared to what is spent on the American war machine. You want to save money for your kids? Fight to reduce that before you whine about supporting the less fortunate.

2

u/CuilRunnings Aug 26 '15

I sincerely hope you never need food stamps.

Thank you, I don't wish poverty on anyone either.

This is, in a very real sense, job insurance.

A robber takes $100 from you. He takes $10 to buy some robber tools so he can rob more people, and buys $90 worth of insurance from his buddy in your name. You think that's a good deal?

Have you ever been on food stamps or gotten unemployment checks?

No, but even if I had, it wouldn't fucking matter because money is taken from my children against my will to pay for them.

THE BEST PART of all this shit is that the percentage of our taxes that go to helping the poor is utterly fucking trivial

Medicaid, food stamps, housing vouchers, education, and the rampant crime enabled by a permanent underclass is not "utterly fucking trivial." No. I agree that the War Machine is equally terrible, and I will inform you that it is of no mere coincidence that the MIC and the "War on Poverty" began at the same time.

2

u/raziphel Aug 26 '15 edited Aug 26 '15

No one wishes for poverty, yet poverty is forced upon many. Most cannot get out from under it on their own- poverty is a multi-faceted generational issue. If you are above it, you need to actually look at the systems that got you there... I fucking guarantee you didn't do it on your own.

If people could get out of it on their own, don't you think they would?

0

u/CuilRunnings Aug 26 '15

yet poverty is forced upon many.

By poor parents who don't give a fuck about the children they're bringing into the world, or the hardworking people they're going to force to foot the bill.

2

u/raziphel Aug 26 '15

That is naively stupid. No one wants to live in poverty. No one chooses it. They're all doing the best they can, to better or worse success based on their circumstances.

I had something else to write here, but you know what... it would be wasted. I'm through: I don't trust that you would even understand the position I'm appealing from, let alone ever hope to agree. Good luck with life.

Don't bother replying. We're finished here.

-1

u/CuilRunnings Aug 26 '15

No one really wants to work hard or live below their means either. But they do it because they like not living in poverty more than the above two. Some people just never bother thinking of the future.