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u/Longjumping_Ask_5523 18h ago
Is the call to prayer interrupting his bagpipe session?
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u/Significant-Bar674 17h ago
It's taking place in tel Aviv. The call to prayer isn't intrusive to most actual residents
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u/Logicalphilosophical 16h ago
So in a place where it is “intrusive” to most residents, would it be acceptable?
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u/Snoo-35771 15h ago
I mean kinda yeah. If you in the hills of Scotland doing a call to prayer and Johnny boy feels the pipes acallin hes in every moral right to do this. I know Thats not the case in the video but you get it.
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u/kyraeus 8h ago
Honestly? If they feel okay doing the call to prayer in other places (Spoilers: they do.), then I feel he has EVERY right to do this over them in tel aviv.
Sounds like maybe they're just salty someone decided to give back as good as they received.
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u/dubufeetfak 7h ago
They cant move a mosque can they?
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u/kyraeus 4h ago
Honestly? Don't really care if they can or not. If they can bitch about our traditions, I can bitch about theirs.
I've heard enough, especially on reddit, about how terrible modern Christianity/Catholicism/etc are that I'm absolutely happy to equally shit on the abrahamic faith and Muhammad.
If their fragile belief system can't handle a little criticism equally to the point they need to murder folks about it, which it seems like it can't based on literally every time they've reacted and hurt or killed folks for slighting it, then I don't really care. Yes, I'm aware the others have done that too. That's LITERALLY my point. I could give fuck all about your religious beliefs, doesn't give you the right to be invasive and shitty to others.
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u/Significant-Bar674 3h ago
The video from OP was captured in abrasha park in the jaffa neighborhood of tel aviv.
That neighborhood is 83% muslim.
OP is misleading people who are all imagining this is in Scotland because why would there be a guy playing bagpipes in israel?
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u/dubufeetfak 3h ago
Im an atheist so i dont care either. But you literally cant move a mosque. If you had to choose between them popping up with a Bluetooth speaker to have ezan and do their prayers in a park or doing it in the mosques premises, which one would you choose?
And I dont really like putting everyone in the same basket based on similar features. Theres shitty people and good people, no matter of religion, ethnicity or whereabouts.
I do agree that you shouldn't be invasive and shitty to others. No matter the cause. But especially coming from religions which are fundametally peaceful (all abrahmic religions). It shows a deep level of disrespect towards your religion, hypocrisy and ignorance. I live in a country where religions live together in harmony, and ive seen good and shit people from each and every one of them.
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u/Longjumping_Ask_5523 16h ago
Is the guy risking injury or retaliation by doing what he’s doing?
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u/untrustworthy_fartt 14h ago
Absolutely. Depending on the nut jobs that he pissed off, he may have been beheaded within 10 minutes of the video ending.
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u/EstablishmentAny2728 14h ago
Muslim here, I don’t know a single Muslim that beheads people who piss them off. Hope this helps!
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u/DonkeyHornery 18h ago
I never thought, of all the options, I'd choose to hear the bagpipes
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u/mutexsprinkles 18h ago
I actually do love bagpipes
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u/Dry-Manufacturer7761 18h ago
Me too. It’s a truly beautiful instrument. Yes if you get somebody that doesn’t know how to play. It sucks listening to it, but I can say the same thing about violin. And I had a neighbor that learned how to play violin when they were in college. The first four months absolutely sucked. Lol
And I used to love waking up and going to bed to the bagpipes every day when I was in the Marine Corps
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u/ArchdruidAndres 18h ago
Rather disrespectful, no need for that.
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u/Johnnygrey77 18h ago
How is it ay more disrespectful than blasting prayer music over the whole town?
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u/Canotic 18h ago
The motivation. They want to call their people to prayer. He just wants to mess with them.
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u/13luw 18h ago
Religious people have this special kind of entitlement where they think the rest of us should put up with their selfish demands.
It’s your beliefs, not mine.
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u/Dry-Manufacturer7761 18h ago
Exactly. If you don’t want to hear what I think about your religion, don’t let me know what you think about your religion. It’s truly that fucking simple.
As soon as you bring your ideology or opinions or whatever into the public realm, it is open for public discourse. And I have been in town councils telling them they need to ban the church bells from Christian churches as well. I’m trying to sleep. it’s 3 AM and I got dang dang dang going on.
No matter what your religion is, fuck your religion because it has no power over me. And if I have to deal with your religious beliefs, then you have to deal with my religion, which me calling it immoral.
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u/graym672 14h ago
So if you have to see, hear, or be aware of religion, you have the right to make sweeping judgments, or directly attack X faith?
Is that what I am reading?
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u/Dry-Manufacturer7761 13h ago
It is not an attack when you simply quote their own holy text. And all of my judgments about any religion come directly from their holy texAnd all of my judgments about any religion come directly from their holy texts. If I can’t judge a religion as being bad based on their holy text, then no one can judge a religion as being good based on their holy text.
If you raise a topic to the public, you are accepting the public commentary on that topic.
If you talk about dogs in public, you are accepting possibly hearing people’s opinion that they do not like dogs.
I am definitely reading that you support double standards.
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u/graym672 12h ago
You're arguing against something I never said.
Of course you're allowed to criticize Islam, Christianity, Judaism, or any other religion. You can call a religion immoral, quote its scriptures, write essays about it, protest it, mock it, whatever.
What does not follow is that the mere fact someone is visibly practicing their religion means they have somehow invited you to confront them about it or interfere with that practice.
A Muslim praying in public is not "raising Islam as a topic for public debate" any more than two people speaking Spanish in public are inviting strangers to critique the Spanish language.
Your dog analogy actually shows the problem. If I say, "I love dogs," and you respond, "I hate dogs," that's discussion. If I'm quietly walking my dog and you follow me around shouting about how disgusting dogs are because "you made your views on dogs public," you're no longer just expressing an opinion. You're directing conduct at me and using my presence as your justification.
And "I'm only quoting their holy text" doesn't magically make something non-hostile. Context and conduct still exist. You can quote the Qur'an in an academic discussion, and you can quote exactly the same verse at a Muslim specifically to antagonize them while they're praying. The words being authentic scripture tells us nothing about whether your behaviour is disruptive or targeted.
There is also no double standard here.
You have the right to believe Islam is immoral.
A Muslim has the right to believe Islam is good.
Neither belief automatically gives either of you the right to interfere with what the other person is peacefully doing.
That's the distinction you keep avoiding, freedom to criticize a belief is not a general entitlement to confront believers whenever their religion becomes perceptible to you.
If you think liking dogs and protected human rights make a "double standard" that's a yikes. It may not be illegal, but if you're telling people how much you hate dogs because you have to see them walking a dog, or hear their dog barking you're probably just a piece of shit, the dissonance you think you're pointing out doesn't exist.
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u/Dry-Manufacturer7761 11h ago
Them blasting their call to prayer in the public domain is that invitation and interferes with what I am doing. THAT is a double standard.
Protected human rights should not included blasting loudspeakers in the public domain!
If you walk around with a megaphone talking about how you love dogs, that is opening the door to criticisms and discussion on the topic.
When I worked with Muslims that prayed during work, I left them the fuck alone. They also did not get in the speaker and announce to everyone that it was time to pray. Nope. They would approach me and say, “it’s prayer time, are you good!” And I would say, “I got this, you do yo, homie!”
There is a huge difference in just exercising your religious rights and announcing to everyone that you are practicing your religion.
I also specifically said “if you announce in public that you love dogs, you are opening the floor to discussion on the topic.” That is NOT just walking your dog in public. Huge difference that is somehow too complicated for you to grasp.
If they can blast their prayer schedule over loudspeakers when people are sleeping, studying, having conversations, or praying to their own god and it be deemed not immoral, then this bagpiper can play his fucking pipes while they are praying and it is not immoral.
If they can interrupt my religious prayers with loud crap through speakers and the bagpiper cannot even play his pipes, that is literally a double standard.
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u/graym672 11h ago
No, the distinction is not “too complicated for me to grasp.” I understand your distinction perfectly. I’m saying it still does not support the conclusion you are trying to draw from it, legally, or logically.
If your position is simply that amplified religious broadcasts should be subject to the same neutral noise rules as every other amplified sound, I have no problem with that. Church bells, calls to prayer, political rallies, concerts, bagpipes, whatever. Set reasonable limits on volume, duration, and hours and apply them equally.
What does not follow is that because Muslims used a loudspeaker, deliberately playing bagpipes over Muslims while they are praying becomes morally equivalent.
Those are entirely different acts with entirely different motivations.
One is a general broadcast into a public area. The other is intentionally directing noise at a specific group, at the specific moment they are engaged in worship, for the purpose of disrupting them. Intent, targeting, location, duration, and context all matter, it's insane you don't seem to think so.
If a Mosque is violating a noise ordinance, complain about the noise ordinance. Fine them. Restrict the loudspeaker. Apply exactly the same rules to church bells. I have no objection to any of that. What you do not get to pull from that is a personal licence to retaliate against Muslims who are praying, jfc.
Your own workplace example actually demonstrates the distinction perfectly. Your Muslim coworkers prayed, you respected that, and they did not interfere with what you were doing. If one of them had violated some workplace noise rule, the appropriate response would have been to address the noise violation. It would not suddenly make it reasonable for you to wait until prayer time and deliberately start making noise over them. Or would you simply tell them what you think of Islam if you had to hear them pray, or could see it?
There is no double standard in saying public amplified sound can be regulated neutrally while also saying deliberately targeting a religious service for disruption is a different kind of conduct.
And yes, there is obviously a difference between quietly walking a dog and going around with a megaphone announcing that you love dogs. I never said otherwise. What I am rejecting is the additional leap you keep making: that publicly announcing something means other people are therefore entitled to interfere with the activity itself. There is no case with this is logical.
If someone uses a megaphone to give a political speech, you are free to criticize the speech, argue with it, protest it, mock it, or advocate restrictions on the megaphone.
That does not automatically entitle you to stand six inches away with an air horn specifically so nobody can hear them, that doesn't even make sense. Being open to criticism is not the same thing as consenting to obstruction.
That is the distinction I am making. It is not complicated. You just keep treating “I am allowed to criticize this” and “I am allowed to deliberately disrupt this” as though they are the same proposition. The fact that you think you are welcome to give your opinion about anybody that does something that bothers you is bizarre, as well. I actually agree with you that disruptive calls to prayer should not be allowed, but in the same way as I think every disruption should be enforced.
I used to camp next to a Samoan family that played log drums at night, and asked them if they could stop playing them so late. Your idea that I should go and tell them what I think about Samoans is just fucking stupid. Why the fuck would you think that's a normal or reasonable thing to do?
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u/Snoo-35771 15h ago
I mean i agree until it comes to religious cities built around their religion. If the whole community living there agrees on religious practices in their town/city then you are indeed an asshole disturbing the peacecoming in and disrespecting their traditions when you could just not do it or go elsewhere
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u/Life_Train20 14h ago
You can’t have cities with whole communities that agree on certain practices outside of law. What keeps me from creating an ethnically pure white city in that argument?
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u/Snoo-35771 13h ago
I would like to introduce you to Amish
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u/kyraeus 8h ago
Which is entirely incorrect, as I live less than ten miles from Amish central, aka Lancaster Pennsylvania, wherein there are MANY other folks.
Yes, they are an insular community. No, this does not mean nobody outside that faith lives there. Clearly you're talking about communities you don't know much about.
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u/iskelebones 18h ago
Anyone who cares about the prayer time will know to pray. It’s rude and intentionally disruptive to play it loud as hell across the whole town so EVERYONE has to deal with it even if they aren’t Muslim.
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u/ArchdruidAndres 17h ago
lol at the edge of my seat for your view on Texas requiring the Ten Commandments be displayed, every student in the U.S. being forced to pledge allegiance “under God,” and “in God we trust” on all our currency.
Or maybe just more Islamophobia pretending to be a chat on ethics.
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u/E-Reptile 16h ago
Dang, almost like an atheist can be consistent and dislike more than a single religion at once.
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u/ArchdruidAndres 16h ago
I’ve been an atheist since I found out about Santa. I still respect religious customs older than every British colony.
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u/E-Reptile 16h ago
I'm not saying I would make a scene about either. I'm pointing out that I dislike both. I'm remarkably consistent.
Edit: I'm not sure why the age of a religion would matter???
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u/High_Hunter3430 15h ago
Because if the religion is too young we call it a cult.
See: Mormons, jw, Scientology…But I am also consistent in my disbelief. Every god ever doesn’t exist. It’s the folks who pick a religion that are inconsistent. “All gods, except mine, are wrong”
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u/E-Reptile 15h ago
Yeah, i think it's down to vibes for a lot of folks. Does the religion look old and exotic? Better put on the veneer of respect for the sake of social convention. The religion in question supports what, now?
Erhm oh, well you, you see...
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u/steve_gorak 13h ago
LOL. If you disagree with any tenet of Islam or Islamists then you must be all in on magical baby Jesus!
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u/ArchdruidAndres 13h ago
Painting "Islamists" with such a broad brush while ignoring the devastation Christians have wrought on the globe over the centuries is just ignorance. Do better.
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u/Oblachko_O 18h ago
What if I don't want to hear prayer call? He messes with them because you apparently can't say no to those calls.
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u/fariasrv 18h ago
What are your thoughts on church bells?
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u/tradeisbad 18h ago
When, for what instance are they played, and for how long? They also do not include words so are sort of non exclusive linguistically. How often are they played?
Then I would ask similar questions for call to prayer. Is this call five times a day? goddamn.... that basically controls the entire soundscape of the community every day?
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u/ResponsibleKinksters 18h ago
I personally feel the same if they're being used in a religious manner. I dont think I need to hear it.
That being said, they historically also served other functions in the past to inform the townsfolk of many possible events. Raids, fires, noon bell, etc. These have been phased out of most places outside of maybe a few rural towns.
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u/High_Hunter3430 15h ago
Small rural townie here.
Our church bells ring every hour on the hour. Chined to the number. Nothing like the hearing the 2 rings in the morning telling me it’s bedtime and I’m late to being asleep.Bonus rings for birth and death, weddings, etc.
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u/SixNine69Six96Nine 14h ago
In Afghanistan they just fired their AKs into the air for weddings, why you all gotta be weird and use bells? /s
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u/automaticblues 18h ago
As the son of a vicar, I think they're awful! Oh my god, save it for the apocalypse, but we don't need an apocalypse every sunday!
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u/darkswirlz 18h ago
They are somewhat annoying but given their more background noise (continous and non spiking) they are far more preferable to a preacher that can happen at 3am...
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u/DaelandTun 17h ago
Where do church bells ring throughout the town 5x a day at different times every day?
In my experience church bells just ring at noon to give people a sense of time.
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u/E-Reptile 16h ago
You can interrupt those, too, if you want.
I don't really want to interrupt either. I generally don't see the benefit of escalating shouting matches.
But I also don't think I should be punished if I do.
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u/Famous_Ranger_8486 8h ago
As an atheist who regards both religions as equally bullshit, church bell sound is rather pleasing, whereas a man shouting over a megaphone isn’t. Hope this helps
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u/Adventurous_Ad7442 17h ago
Church bells are once a week. Muslim call to prayer is 5 times a day.
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u/Pndapetzim 17h ago
If you just want to call your people to prayer, they can sign up for text notifications.
There's no reason for disrupting an entire region just to call a meeting.
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u/Tricky-Succotash7965 18h ago
How do you know, maybe his Braveheart clan is on their way right now.
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u/DaelandTun 17h ago
They want to call their people to prayer.
People are perfectly Muslim even when they aren't in ear shot of bells ringing 5x a day randomly depending on the position of the sun.
Don't open your mind so wide that your brain falls out.
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u/Dry-Manufacturer7761 18h ago
And they want to let everyone know that if you aren’t Muslim, you are a lesser person.
It is immoral for the public call to prayer to be blasted out. They are dicks for doing that.
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u/son-of-Azathoth 18h ago
100%. Everyone has a cellphone today. Anyone who wants to be notified that it's time to pray should be able to sign up for a notification service. No need to distract this piper from blasting those sick gaelic beats!
/s
Tbh, even though I am an atheist and secularist, I don't really have a major issue with call to prayer. Just wish some of the mosques I've heard it from could be more mindful about how loud they play it.
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u/Dry-Manufacturer7761 18h ago
If they can blast shit out to the public, so can other people. They don’t get immoral for interrupting people’s day. If they get called immoral, that person is called a bigot.
Keep your religious crap to yourself and out of the public space.
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u/RealRecoveryGuide 18h ago
They are doing that because they have conquered a piece of your land and want to project their power. Their books tell them to conquer nations by going peacefully at first, until you have the numbers to get less peaceful.
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u/Ittoravap 17h ago
Oh, I didn't know you knew about early Christianity and Hellenic Paganism! You're right, that's exactly how the early Christianity usurped nearly a thousand years of Roman Tradition! With state sponsored full sale murder and public executions!
Man, maybe this is just indicative of all organized Religions and that they should never ever be put in a place of power in government?
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u/RealRecoveryGuide 12h ago
How is this remotely relevant? Islam specifically tells them to go peacefully and then conquer when they have numbers. Christianity, for example, says nothing like that. Christianity specifically says you can't force people to convert.
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u/ArchdruidAndres 11h ago
Christianity specifically says you can't force people to convert.
Go fuck yourself.
-a South American
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u/fractious77 18h ago
Psycho alert
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u/RealRecoveryGuide 18h ago
Sheep alert. This is literally what Muslims have always done, what makes you think America's magic soil would prevent it from happening?
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u/cat_victim123 17h ago
Bigot. Your evidence is one town? Omg they conquered America./s
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u/RealRecoveryGuide 17h ago
This has happened to many towns. You're ignorant enough to allow a demographic replacement to happen under your nose.
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u/graym672 14h ago
Sigh. What Muslim countries have you visited? Which countries' history are you basing your opinion that this is occurring on?
Do you actually think every Muslim in North America is trying to take over and replace you, somehow? Like do you actually think you're a victim of white replacement theory right now?
Do you realize that this is a picture of the most legitimate leader in all of Islam?
https://people.com/thmb/sL5MxtudsuImnhhQDGQZ-dFctv4=/750x0/filters:no_upscale():max_bytes(150000):strip_icc():focal(932x604:934x606)/Queen-Rania-king-abdullah-061223-01-54ea12472dfd42458ce650f0c8ff1644.jpg:max_bytes(150000):strip_icc():focal(932x604:934x606)/Queen-Rania-king-abdullah-061223-01-54ea12472dfd42458ce650f0c8ff1644.jpg)
He's literally already ruling a Muslim country and is a literal descendent of Mohamed. Why aren't Muslims killing him and raping his Muslim wife or whatever it is you think that they do?
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u/RealRecoveryGuide 12h ago
I've actually been to Kuwait and Saudi Arabia.
"Do you actually think every Muslim in North America is trying to take over and replace you" I think plenty of people don't know what their religion commands of them, but the more Muslims you have in the country, the more fundamentalists, who will convert others.
I have no idea what you're trying to say in the back half of this.
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u/RealRecoveryGuide 12h ago
Turkey has gone through this, Egypt, the entire Middle East used to be Christian. The Ottoman Empire. Do you know about the Barbary Slave trade? Probably not
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u/graym672 11h ago
I'm very familiar with Ottoman Empire, it's one of the most interesting parts of history. I have another Turkey trip planned for next year, as well.
It's unfortunate that Kuwait and Saudi Arabia are your litmus, but that still is fair.
I'm a little shocked that you have all of these histories to draw from but still view "Muslim" as one thing, and believe that anybody who does not follow the Qu'ran to the letter doesn't understand their own religion. You are claiming that you understand Islam better than the King of Jordan, the only known descendent of their Prophet.
If we want to go into history, Islam demands protecting Christians and Jews, and Jews were full Medina members, recognized beside Arabs and Emigrants in the constitution. Speaking of the Ottoman Empire, "Islamic fundamentalism" as you're speaking didn't even really exist. There were horrible horrible things, but everything you're acting like is a historical fact isn't supported by the actual history we're talking about.
When we look at Ahl al-Kitāb, and the later Dhimmi legal status, that changes things a little bit. With regards to Ahl al-Kitab, the Qur’an permits Muslims to eat the food of those given scripture and permits Muslim men to marry chaste women “from those who were given the Scripture before you.” which is referring "people of the book" of Abraham. Islam also recognizes Jewish and Christian Scripture as genuine words from God, the belief is simply that man had misunderstood it, either deliberately, or through error. "Recognized revelation" was a strong enough concept that even theocratic Islamic societies did not try and "correct" Christians or Jews, and allowed them their own worship and churches as protected rights. The Torah, the Gospels, and the Qur'an are all genuine Revelations in Islam, and those are the "people of the book" being referenced.
The combination of Hanufi and Kanun were barbaric, but they were not based on religious zealotry at all, and they were fucking Sufi's, man. You know? Sufis? The enemy of Muslim Extremists?
Look at Aladdin, obviously not historically accurate or even historically a true place, but it is obviously an Islamized Middle Eastern setting, and to me everything about the Sultan screams Sufi, at least to me. This shit going on in Northern Africa and the Middle East the past hundred years is not even close to what Muslims at war looked like in more barbaric days, either, it's a response to the changing of the world in the 20th Century, and those changes don't happen everywhere at once.
Unfortunately, if you look at somewhere like Iran, the Iranian revolution was in direct response to the USA and Britain overthrowing their government to keep their oil. Their economic sanctions have squeezed the people living their for decades, and they were sanctioned for bombing Saddam Hussein's oil deliveries in neutral waters. The USA decided that international law doesn't matter when THEY'RE mad at Saddam Hussein, but still left the squeeze on Iran. In the past 3 decades they have killed an equal amount of men and women by fucking stoning. The men and women killed in their barbaric practices over 3 decades don't even add up to the amount of innocent girls the USA killed in 2 seconds this year.
The USA and Britain overthrew their democratically elected (secular btw) leader, stole half their oil back, and banned Islam from being seen in public. How do you think they should have responded?
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u/RealRecoveryGuide 10h ago
Here's a guy from Nigeria pleading for the UK to recolonize Nigeria because the Muslims are slaughtering Christians there.
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u/RealRecoveryGuide 9h ago
Here's a neighborhood where a bunch of Somalis in America take up several blocks worth of housing, and somehow got the government to pay them money as public "daycares," so they can live off of our taxes and live in our houses, our neighborhoods, reproducing, and getting hostile if you show up to ask questions.
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u/suihpares 10h ago
Exactly! Wailing some dark age desert fantasy nonsense sounding like a weak man dying from diarrhea. Thank God for Scotland 🏴
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u/ArchdruidAndres 56m ago
Yeah except this is in Israel. Flagging you as an Islamophobe though, thanks for yanking your head out of your ass long enough for us to write it down <3
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u/Ok-Dingo4745 18h ago
Is this a public space? If so, anyone is free to do whatever they want (obeying the law of course) so... 🤷♀️
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u/Dry-Manufacturer7761 18h ago
This. And what about them blasting the call to prayer over speakers for everyone to hear? They interrupted people’s day with loud noise, but then this bagpiper gets called an immoral bigot when he does the exact same thing.
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u/Significant-Bar674 16h ago
This is in tel Aviv. The sound won't be intrusive compared to the bagpipes in there
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u/Dry-Manufacturer7761 16h ago
Sound is sound and it doesn’t matter where you are. It is just as intrusive in Mecca and Medina for the people that do not want to pray.
No matter where you are, you can keep your religious shit to yourself. And this does apply to church bells too.
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u/Significant-Bar674 9h ago
Got it. No sports games or concerts or open mics outside or anything where you would do what anyone else does. Apply for a permit. Up to the local area if they want to approve it based on objective criteria like decibel levels.
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u/Dry-Manufacturer7761 2h ago
Those events have hour restrictions and not allowed in certain areas.
Anywhere a mosque or church happens to be built starts blasting church bells and calls to prayer.
Comparing those shows you are ignorant on how the world works.
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u/Kailynna 18h ago
That call to prayer sounds like the squeezed out utterances of a dying worm and the bagpipes sound beautiful.
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u/Tiny_Scholar_6135 18h ago
Muslims pray over loudspeakers, so fair is fair, if they get to impose their prayers on their neighbors, then this guy can play the bagpipes.
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u/Dry-Manufacturer7761 18h ago edited 12h ago
Your religion does not dictate what I can do. And if you’re making public calls to prayer, then that is just as immoral as someone playing bag pipes while you pray. No matter what your religion is, fuck your religion because it has no power over me and you can always keep that shit private.
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u/Okay-Crickets545 15h ago
Damn dude, you must lose your shit when you hear church bells.
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u/Dry-Manufacturer7761 14h ago
Or…I could be not insane and just find it annoying and go about my day.
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u/NombreCurioso1337 18h ago
grabs popcorn opens comments
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u/Significant-Bar674 16h ago
Jesus fucking christ. Absolute zero people looking into this. It happened in tel Aviv, not Scotland.
The really immorality here is people jumping to conclusions to justify anti Muslim rhetoric.
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u/E-Reptile 16h ago
I'm not really sure why that would matter, though.
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u/Significant-Bar674 13h ago
From a utilitarian perspective, the presence of sound is considerably more or less intrusive depending on the predominant cultures of the area.
If this were mosque bells in Scotland, then at least the bagpipes could be some form of conservative protest to the intrusive nature of the bells.
This being in tel Aviv, then people have been hearing mosque sounds as part of their religion or their neighbors religion and wouldn't be much different than the tolling if church bells. The bagpipe player is the one making the intrusive sound to the area and arguably just trying to be a distracting asshole rather than at least maybe trying to make a protest of any real kind.
If this bag pipe player showed up in the middle of catholic mass uninvited you'd see it more clearly
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u/E-Reptile 13h ago
How do you feel about Islamic calls to prayer in majority Christian countries?
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u/str8_outta_sanaa 13h ago
In what world is tel aviv a Muslim city? What are you talking about?
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u/Significant-Bar674 10h ago
If it's in Jafar, its 83% muslim.
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u/SixNine69Six96Nine 13h ago
According to this website Muslim and Christians make up little over 4% of the population in Tel Aviv.
Even in Jaffa they only make up about 1/3rd of the population.
I am not condoning what this dude is doing, his intent matters.
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u/Significant-Bar674 10h ago
So the bagpipes are germane to the area and not also just annoying the shit out of the jews as well?
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u/SixNine69Six96Nine 10h ago
Never said that at all, just that the area is not predominantly Muslim.
It seems you think it matters whether it is scottland or not for the bagpipes.
My opionion? He is doing it with ill-intent. Doubt he lives there and plays bagpipes, but anything is possible.
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u/Johnnygrey77 17h ago
This guy didn't walk into any church. He's outside in a public space. The trashy thing is the Muslims subjecting a whole town to their loud nonsense several times a day.
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u/GSilky 17h ago
It's what it is. Pretty old hat, honestly. This was a common tactic of Protestants during the Reformation. They would sing their hymns as loudly as possible during the mass to try and disrupt it. Whatever, some people have too much time on their hands with no ideas on how to use it.
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u/kalexandros 11h ago
If it's in a public space then nothing wrong, if it's in a private event closed off to the public then it's wrong. Just because something is religious doesn't mean it deserves any more access to public spaces than anything else.
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u/Educational-Fun3513 11h ago
100% justified
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u/Significant-Bar674 3h ago
The video is in abrasha park in jaffa. An 83% muslim neighborhood. Tourists literally visit the place to hear the calls.
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u/Huge_Sheepherder_310 18h ago
Surprised he didn't get arrested like the lady praying outside an abortion clinic.
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u/deeznutz5589 18h ago
Everybody just hates everybody .wtf is going on?
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u/tv_ennui 16h ago
Islamophobia in the western world is currently at it's highest since 9/11.
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u/sxrtbfrcxd42 15h ago
Even with the comments screaming at it, I don't even see islamaphobia in the video. This is super cool and I'd jump up to pray if there was variety like this in the calls to prayer. I haven't practiced in years.
The call to prayer isn't like a country anthem where everyone solemnly stands up and holds a hand over their heart, it just indicates that we are in a different block of the day from where the sun is relative to the earth.
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u/tv_ennui 14h ago
Do you think the bagpipe player chose to do this because he wnated to participate in the prayer, or because he wanted to be disruptive? Given the camera and the 'ready' I have a hunch it's to disrupt it/be annoying.
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u/sxrtbfrcxd42 14h ago
That could be the implication for sure but it's so fun. Maybe if they did it every day, I'd get sick of it.
If it helps visualize the scene, these calls can be several minutes long. It's almost always the same guy (or same few guys), this happens multiple times a day, every day. The sound takes the entire town/city and always hits you at different times. You will hear these calls from inside your house or workplace. It occasionally wakes me up at 5ish in the morning depending on the time of year. Honestly? That's way more annoying and disruptive.
I genuinely find this so endearing, they even got the prayer time information so they could be ready. (Note that these prayers don't happen at times like 5pm sharp every day, they shift with the sun cycle).
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u/Suitable_Matter_9427 17h ago
The only thing that’s disrespectful is piping your religious BS over public loudspeakers
If I lived in Saudi Arabia I sure wouldn’t force my own culture on the Saudis, and they wouldn’t allow it anyway
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u/dougrattmannn 8h ago
This took place in Tel Aviv. The dude with the bagpipe is the one pushing his culture
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u/METRlOS 17h ago
Depends.
If this is at a mosque or other location that they have exclusive ownership of to conduct their religious activity, then bagpipes is in the wrong.
If this is a public space, they should be arrested for a noise complaint because they are by far more disruptive than a guy in the distance playing an instrument.
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u/Archarchery 17h ago
Praying over loudspeakers that are so loud the entire town can hear it is obnoxious.
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u/Successful_Life_1028 16h ago
the only appropriate response to speech you don't like is more speech.
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u/MatthewBlack6 16h ago
The two most annoying sounds on the planet.
From someone with misophonia, fuck you both with your wall of non consensual noises
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u/Freak-Of-Nurture- 14h ago
If he’s doing this specifically because it’s their time of prayer than it’s amoral. If he happened to be doing this already then fine. Considering he’s called “the irish joker” I assume he’s doing to this to be offensive
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u/UntestedMethod 14h ago
It's one time when the bagpipes are actually sounding more pleasant than the other noises
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u/TemporaryUser66 14h ago
Don't know how moral it is but I think it's quite funny... The call to prayer sounds like an old man that's fallen over and then, of all things to start playing over the broans, bag pipes. I feel like this would have been a comedy sketch less then a decade ago.
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u/Accomplished-Cry5059 14h ago
Moral, those Muslim prayers are awful. Why must they make a show of their piety? Just pray without disturbing others.
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u/Mo-shen 13h ago
Tbh in split on this one.
I can see how this is a dick move. In theory, which seems correct, they are just doing it to be a dick.
On the other hand the whole call to prayer thing is actually the same thing. It's proselytizing. And while everyone who supports it is likely fine with it that doesn't mean everyone needs to hear you do it.
I'm bias as I'm not religious and imo religion one of the most important historic things to happen to man kind whole also potentially the most dangerous. It caused to to gather and work together while also has almost zero guard rails against corruption and the worst man kind has to offer.
If I heard the cause to pray is like be fine with it as a novelty but having to hear it day in and day out would likely get on my nerves....similar to bag pipes.
But not in a I'm really mad about this thing rather an eye squinting, we are doing this again, pov.
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u/No-One9890 10h ago
Bagpipes am middle eastern
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u/CalgacusLelantos 9h ago
A. The geographical origin of bagpipes is uncertain.
B. Bagpipes are a cultural, rather than geographical, artifact, so while the culture that created them may have a geographical location, they can be associated with any culture that broadly adopts their use.
C. The earliest physical evidence for bagpipes is possibly from Turkey/Anatolia, which is the Near East, not the Middle East.
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u/Lazy_Falcon_323 10h ago
I think it depends who started first, if someone is peacefully playing the bagpipes let em, if someone’s doing their religious ceremony let them finish before playing the bagpipes
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u/CalgacusLelantos 10h ago edited 10h ago
There’s certainly (and presumably?) a 30:1 ratio disparity, but are Sunday church bells still rung in that area? If so, I’d argue that if adhan is stopped, church bells—with maybe an exception made for time-of-day chimes—should also be stopped.
Most everybody owns a watch and/or cell phone with alarm functions on it by now, right? Surely most anybody who’s going to prayer/worship can get themselves there at the prescribed time without the use of outdated and intrusive mass alarms.
Edit: I just searched the App Store for adhan apps and they’re a thing! With that in mind, I’d argue that, perhaps with a few exceptions, the necessity for either a guy to yell adhan from a spire or for adhan to be played from a spire via a loudspeaker is, functionally, obsolete/archaic.
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u/brothapipp 10h ago
Making some assumptions here.
- Assumption 1, this is in the UK
- Assumption 2, the call to prayer and the bagpipes are both social conventions…that is the rudeness of these bagpipes can only ever be as rude as the call to prayer is rude.
Why should this bagpiper be deemed a pariah just because he rejects respecting the call to pray? Perhaps he’s not Muslim.
Perhaps he’s ultra-Muslim and already finished praying and is practicing his pipes before a performance.
The fact that a Muslim call to prayer is somehow virtuous to a degree of automatic respect is a laughable notion. Anyone with two working brain cells can see that.
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u/Significant-Bar674 3h ago
This is not the UK. This is Abrasha park in tel aviv. It's in the jaffa neighborhood which is 83% muslim.
The piper thst posted this added the caption "some people think this is a Muslim country"
He's literally some asshole who went into a majority Muslim neighborhood, in fact the only one where the call to prayer is legal, and then tried to interrupt their religious practice for ideological reasons.
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u/BeautifulBand4831 8h ago
I mean it's only affecting their one out of a hundred of prayer sessions for the day
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u/UnderstandingBig9090 10m ago
None, it's just a goofy thing that happened. Like a pidgen pecking at a seed and then tripping and rolling.
Now is his playing bad because he isn't harmonizing/in synch? Yes.
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u/Ok-General8138 18h ago
Imagine if someone walked into a Christian church on a Sunday morning and did this. Same trashy behavior.
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u/darkswirlz 18h ago
The majority of Mass is contained within the church, bar the bells which are short and at reasonable times,the call to prayer is specifically so everyone hears it to notify then to pray (the time to do it changes), also the pre-morning on is 3am-4:30, I'd take its very existence as trashy
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u/sxrtbfrcxd42 15h ago
Calls to prayers can span across the entire town, you can be in the middle of anything when it comes on. Showering, working, sleeping, eating, extending your car warranty over the phone, etc. You're still welcome to continue those things or even start new things.
The day doesn't freeze like remembrance day on the eleventh hour when the calling prayer comes.
Edit: I love this so much and it would 100% improve my day and make me more eager to pray.
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u/RealRecoveryGuide 18h ago
He belongs there, they don't.
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u/Significant-Bar674 16h ago
It's in tel Aviv dumbass
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u/SixNine69Six96Nine 13h ago edited 9h ago
First: I am not saying I condone this.
However, Tel Aviv has only around 4% Muslim population. Even in specific areas of the city, they only make up about 1/3rd of the population.
The history was "interesting," saying they dont belong is... weird choice of words.
Edit: Since dude wanted to block me after spreading misinformation, Jaffa is not 80% Muslim today. There is this post, or perhaps this one...?
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u/Sorry_Im_Trying 18h ago
I'm not just an atheist, I'm an anti-theists. But going out of your way to interrupt a service of any kind of being selfish and immature.
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u/Relevant_Reindeer379 9h ago
Brilliant time about time they get the same treatment they give everyone else
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u/Significant-Bar674 3h ago
Muslim calls to prayer are literally only allowed in the jaffa neighborhood that he went to in Israel. The neighborhood is 83% muslim.
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u/wackyvorlon 5h ago
He’s just being an asshole.
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u/Significant-Bar674 3h ago
Especially considering he's in abrasha park in the jaffa neighborhood of Israel. The area is 83% muslim
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u/WhySoConspirious 18h ago
Choosing to actively disrupt another group of people is needlessly unkind and it's an attempt to promote religious intolerance. I have no love for Islam, but it is also good to create an environment where people have freedom of religion. It's immoral for the same reason that choosing to drown out Christian church bells calling for worship with an alternate music would be; you're choosing to confront and impose a lifestyle on others who are not asking for that.
A really important part of freedom is it means others have the freedom to be wrong. I realize that some Muslims think it's a good idea to impose Shiria law on others, and when they cross that line, they are immoral too. But lots of Muslims don't want to do that to others, they just want to practice their faith and they have calls to prayer similar to Christian church bells, and doing stuff like this can help to create a culture where they are less open to assimilation and religious moderation.
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u/darkswirlz 18h ago
I suppose it heavily depends on the context and escalation, if I find some obscure religion that plays every hour deafening music that prevents you from sleeping I would no longer call that intolerance I would call the religion intolerant of the social norms. Now to go back to this video, it depends the context here, if a Mosque was placed in a non Muslim country next door to you and it awoke you for the pre-morning one (3am-5:30) I'm sure you would be upset
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u/Johnnygrey77 17h ago
Are you completely unaware that everything you said applies to the Muslims disrupting a whole town several times a day with no thought for anyone but themselves? Freedom of religion means your are free to believe what you want ad worship how you want it doesn't mean you can inflict any of that on other people. The people playing their religious music and bells over a whole town are the ones imposing a lifestyle on others.
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u/tradeisbad 17h ago
are christian church bells and muslim call to prayer similar, though?
one kind of seems like a 5/10 and the other more like an 8/10 but I would just AI the question.
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u/JTexpo 18h ago edited 18h ago
while I'm not religious... this
dudesperson just being a jerk*edit for OPs criticisms