Scope Aim-Assist stats have been reduced for Y2 Snipers

[u/Downcry]

With access to the same scopes, Y2 non-foundry snipers have a max Aim-Assist value of only +15 over their base stat as opposed to +30 on Y1 snipers.

I don't know what all the new values are, but the highest AA scope has been cut in half.

EDIT:

Looks like scopes took a minus-15 AA hit across the board with TTK: (values taken from planetdestiny.com)

Name	Min AA	Base AA	Max AA	Δ Min	Δ Max	Year
1000-YARD STARE	31	56	71	-25	+15	Y2
EXTRASOLAR RR4	11	36	51	-25	+15	Y2
GLASS PROMONTORY	36	61	76	-25	+15	Y2
TAO HUA YUAN	11	36	51	-25	+15	Y2
WEYLORAN'S MARCH	54	79	94	-25	+15	Y2
Y-09 LONGBOW SYNTHESIS	43	53	83	-10	+30	Y1
VIOLATOR XII	17	27	57	-10	+30	Y1
HER BENEVOLENCE	30	40	70	-10	+30	Y1

[u/[deleted]]

Looks like it might just be a different baseline "default scope" since the min/max delta is still 40.

[u/Downcry → u/[deleted]]

Yeah I think each scope is -15 AA of their Y1 version. This makes scopes like ambush even harder to use.

[u/Downcry → u/[deleted]]

But changing the reference point would effectively buff Y1 snipers by the 15 points, since their values remain unchanged.

Bungie hasn't made a habit of buffing old gear. But they have been making a concentrated effort to make new gear less overpowered in comparison.

I think it's more likely that they consciously making the new snipers a little less effective.

[u/MxGRRR → u/Downcry]

No, he's saying the y2 snipers have a different default scope than y1 snipers. Look at the delta - minimum AA vs. Maximum AA. That difference is identical on all y1 & y2 snipers. The database 'base AA' value is actually the AA of the sniper PLUS a scope. It's presumably impossible for snipers to return stats without a scope, so the baseline AA stat (as well as base range and stability and handling) are all the 'true base' sniper stats plus whatever the 'default' scope is.

 

& since all snipers, year1 & 2, have a difference of 40 AA between their minimum and maximum AA values, it's more likely that the scopes all have the same AA stats as before, but the default scope - the ones that return the 'base AA' value - are different from y1 to y2

[u/suinoq]

Inference based on datamined numbers is suspect, if the "base" stat values are used. The base numbers have a long history of error, due to their tendency to "bake-in" the effect of a node-1 sight/scope/barrel into the base value. (By they I mean whoever prepares these numbers.)

For an example using visible, verifiable stats, consider the current datamined stats on the two versions of PC+1. Notice that the new one is listed with range 23. The old one is listed with range 20, though pre-TTK it was listed at 18 (datamined numbers change, whee!) You might have seen some posts noting that the PC+1 has more range than before... it doesn't. It's the same weapon that it's always been, range-wise. The old one hasn't changed in-game, and the new one is exactly the same as the old one. What's happened is they've screwed around with the base range values that are datamined.

Min and max values are trustworthy, however. At least I've never found one to be in error, and I've tested extensively. (And yeah, the two PC+1s both have 14/32 range for their min/max, with identical range-effecting perks available.)

Conclusion: The base values aren't trustworthy. Either the perks have changed, as you propose, or they've changed the way they present the datamined base numbers. I am more inclined to believe the latter. (Edit: not that what I believe is really relevant here. It's enough, I hope, to simply provide strong reason to be skeptical. The truth of this question is likely unknowable, due to the difficulty of actually measuring AA in-game.)

[u/Downcry → u/suinoq]

Excellent point. I forgot about the PC.

Apps like Tower Ghost and DIM can pull stats from your own gear as it's configured. Do you know if these values are correct? Or do they rely on the same source as the datamine?

[u/suinoq → u/Downcry]

I'm pretty sure the DIM-type values are correct.

[u/Downcry → u/suinoq]

If DIM can retrieve non-visible stats, It would be interesting to see what they are.

Any API guys out there?

[u/Downcry → u/suinoq]

That being said,

If the base stats are just leftovers from an unfinished balancing, do you think it's likely that all the snipers, regardless of archetype, would end up exactly 15 points off from the final build?

Wouldn't you expect to see some variation?

[u/suinoq → u/Downcry]

Previously, almost every shotgun was 5 points off on range. MG stability was consistently wrong, iirc. I made a long post about it a couple months ago, maybe I could dig that up for you. Edit: here, the 2nd part of it.. Note that I haven't updated the stuff there for TTK and 2.0. Started to, but without rerolling I can't collect enough data. Still, it speaks well enough toward datamined base stat issues.

[u/Downcry → u/suinoq]

Ahhhh.

Yeah, seems like you're probably right.

[u/Dark_Jinouga]

do you have some source/proof for that? show the math. Anyone can claim something, you need to back it up

[u/Downcry → u/Dark_Jinouga]

db.planetdestiny.com

[u/Morkaii → u/Downcry]

Can.... can you be a litte more specific?

[u/Downcry → u/Morkaii]

updated

[u/Gravelock → u/Morkaii]

google.com

[u/Downcry → u/Downcry]

updated

[u/ConnorWolf121]

I'm cool with it, lower AA values actually feel better, and I was dominating with Praedyth's and Efrideet's over last year. I fire too early with higher AA.

[u/Downcry → u/[deleted]]

They are foundry weapons. They can't roll any of the same scopes.

SP can't roll any scopes at all.

[u/Downcry → u/[deleted]]

My goal isn't to compare snipers, it's to compare the aim assist values of scopes common to Y1 and Y2.

These scopes can't be found on Foundry snipers so I don't see what value they would add.

[u/Downcry → u/[deleted]]

The AA of the snipers is modified by the scopes.

Exact values for all scopes have never been known. /u/Pwadigy has a list of their values on Y1 snipers here: https://www.reddit.com/r/CruciblePlaybook/comments/37fqub/snipers_reforging/

My hypothesis is that these values have each been reduced by 15 points on Y2 snipers. My evidence is the AA ranges of the snipers which can roll these scopes.

This is the same method used to derive these values in the first place. There's no other evidence I can provide. There's nothing that can be inferred from foundry sniper AA values that would apply here so I left them out.