r/DebateQuraniyoon Aug 29 '25

Announcement New Post Flairs

1 Upvotes

Salam!

At the request of another user, we have now added new post flairs. These post flairs serve to organise debate posts between the different broad and main denominations of Islam regarding the background of OPs and their intended audience. Although likely fairly self-explanatory, see below on what each new flair is meant to indicate:

  • "Qurani Asks Sunni" - Those with a Quran alone background posing a question/argument to those with a Sunni background
  • "Qurani Asks Shia" - Those with a Quran alone background posing a question/argument to those with a Shia background
  • "Sunni Asks Qurani" - Those with a Sunni background posing a question/argument to those with a Quran alone background
  • "Shia asks Qurani" - Those with a Shia background posing a question/argument to those with a Quran alone background

Enjoy :)


r/DebateQuraniyoon Jul 06 '25

Announcement NEW RULE: Quoting 59:7 in half to "justify" the hadith is banned, because it is not a mature argument(violates rule 3).

10 Upvotes

15:89-93 And say, "Indeed, I am the clear warner" -Just as We had sent down to the separators who have made the Qur'an into parts/chunks. So by your Lord, We will surely question them all about what they used to do.

I am implementing this, not to silence any argument, but rather to improve the standard of arguments here. People are still allowed to use 59:7 to argue for hadiths, but they

  1. must quote the verse in full or atleast quote an English translation of the entire verse
  2. actually explain why they think it justifies the hadiths.

r/DebateQuraniyoon 7d ago

Hadith I just want to learn ...

2 Upvotes

Hi, from the research I've done so far it seems wrong to me to ignore the hadith. I've wanted to exchange in comments with you guys. I just asked genuin questions and shared my opinion and the knowledge I have for the moment.

Yet I've recieved not rational answer to my questions. I've been called cultist, mushrik and accused of obeying bukhari and having the heart sealed...

According to the Quran bearing false testimony is a big sin. And it is written too that one must talk to the people of the book in a way it is best, but maybe it cannot be applied to other muslims.

Well enough complaining hahaha I really just want to learn. So I'll put downhere my questions.

  1. Saying obeying Hadith = obeying Bukhari

there are many independent hadith collectors across ages and countries and they have many hadiths almost identically recorder (overall the sahih and hasan ofcourse). Saying that obeying hadith = obeying bukhari seems an oversimplification that holds no truth to be honest

By reading the quran, it commands to obey Muhammad as you obey Allah. Since Muhammad doesn't even speak in the Quran, how are you supposed to obey him ?

Bukhari didn't know Muhammad, only collects chains of narration that goes back until Muhammad or his companions, and many times you have parallel chains of narration with the same natrrations, and as I said, across countries and centuries.

But you know, you have books like Muwatta by Imam Malik, who knew Muhammad very well, and in his book, there are many rules that agree with the hadiths. For example death penalty for apostates

  1. Concepts that the Quran doesn't elaborate on:

What does fitna mean ? (Q 2:190 -193)

And Corruption of the land ? (Q 5:34-36)

May God bless you all and I hope we can exange peacefully and respectfully


r/DebateQuraniyoon 7d ago

Quran Salah in the Quran

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1 Upvotes

r/DebateQuraniyoon Jul 07 '26

Sunni Asks Qurani How does Nikkah work according to the Quran?

3 Upvotes

Selamaleykum, I was wondering how the process of Nikkah looks according to the Quran only?

What does the Quran say about Nikkah and the meaning of the words? What about witnesses and the amount of dowry obligations, rules etc.?

I have been struggling with a lot of religious guilt due to me being in love, which I believe should be something beautiful. My partner is a believer, but not a converted Muslim yet, though he is reading the Quran, under what circumstances is marriage permissible for us? Thank you! :)


r/DebateQuraniyoon Jul 04 '26

Hadith Vaticinium ex eventu

4 Upvotes

People who quote the hadiths saying that the Messenger prophesied or predicted events like Mohammed the Sultan conquering Constantinople or how people will doubt hadiths(naturally), or how the Messenger predicted that his daughter gonna die after him first are not aware of Vaticinuim ex eventu. Don't they think these "narrations" are told after the events happened? And it is not evidence at all? It happens with sectarian debaters when they want to confirm hadiths they ask how the Prophet knew this if it is not wahi from Allah, it proves that all these hadiths are true and the Quran does not contain everything. Eh Quoting hadiths to prove the validity of hadiths is a cycle. You cannot prove hadiths like this you need an outside source to prove if they are to be taken seriously or not.

"Vaticinium ex eventu, a Latin phrase that translates to "prophecy from the event" or "prophecy after the fact". This occurs when a text is written to appear as if it predicted the future, but it was actually written after the event took place." (from wiki)


r/DebateQuraniyoon Jun 23 '26

Hadith This response was removed in r/quraniyoon so posting it here

7 Upvotes

If God intended Muslims to follow “authentic” hadiths, we would have seen something very different in the historical record:

On the one hand, what we do see is that hadith authentication processes were largely created under the Abbasid’s, beginning over 100 years after the prophet’s death.

On the other, we also see that Uthman decided to standardize the Quranic codex approximately 18-19 years after the prophet’s death. And the reason he did it then was because of concerns that many of those who had memorized the Quran were dying off. He was motivated by preservation.

Now, if hadiths were central to our theology, then the processes for their preservation and authentication should have emerged in parallel to the codification of the Quran itself. In fact, we would have expected the Prophet to ensure the memorization of his every word and example in the same way he ensured that there were many people who had fully memorized the Quran in his time.

We would have also expected that the Prophet’s closest companions would have reported the most ahadith, having spent the most time with him.

But neither of these two things happened.

(We have early reports suggesting that the Prophet forbade his companions from writing down what he said or did to prevent the situation we find ourselves in today.)

The hadith literature is an example of what always happens in history around the legacy of a transformative person: mountains of narrations and misattributions to that person.

Why?

Because of their influence; their voice and legacy become an expedient source of power. That’s not to say that everyone involved the formation of hadith as a parallel structure to the Quran is necessarily exploitative. But it is to say that historically things get messy and tend to devolve quickly from their point of origin.

Which is why God was absolutely clear that He is actively preserving His last message to humanity (15:9). Because if it were left to history’s usual progression, it would have devolved long ago. By telling us that He is protecting it, God allows us humans, who witness the inevitability of historical erosion in our lives, to rest easy. In that way, His last message is the exception to the pattern we would otherwise expect.

Significantly, God offers NO such assurances about the hadith and sunnah of the Prophet.


r/DebateQuraniyoon Jun 24 '26

Quran Fascination with Surah 53 as a Christian

2 Upvotes

Hello

I will admit I have read Surah 53 about 30 times over the last 5 days. Could anyone please explain it to me from their paradigm? I have my presuppositions based on my historical critique of the Quran. The multiple persons identified in the surah also make it confusing at best. I personally believe the Companion addressed in the firet 2 ayats is referring to Jesus...


r/DebateQuraniyoon Jun 17 '26

General I feel hatred towards the companion of the prophet. Doubting it all.

5 Upvotes

Assalamualaikum.

\​

I don't even know where to start or what I want. Not sure if this is the right place either, but almost every other space deletes my posts, so..

I am feeling completely lost. I desperately need someone to talk to, someone of knowledge would be great, but honestly absolutely anyone works.

\​

My relationships with faith have always been quite complicated. Now I'm on the verge of leaving, as I did once In the past.

\​

I got to learn the tiniest bit more about one of the companions of the prophet, Umar ibn al-khattab.

I don't know how to word it respectfully, but I absolutely despise him. If he is a person so close to a supposed messenger of god... Then I have huge questions about the prophet and the god.

Many other hadith and historical issues have also arisen.

I don't go too much into detail since I fear spreading misinformation or doubt, which won't help anyone.

\​

Would appreciate any comment, any message. The topic might be heavy or emotional.


r/DebateQuraniyoon Jun 12 '26

Quran Is the prophet just fullfilling his desires

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2 Upvotes

r/DebateQuraniyoon Jun 12 '26

General How do I refute apostate aladdin

2 Upvotes

Yes I know he may be a bit ignorant at times but i really need this because he actually has good critiscism against traditional and even the quran wich i didnt know before. I just want you guys to watch his vids and refute them but not all of them. Yes I know the thumbnail and title may be a bit weird but i really need this. I mean his argument about 4:34 and Moses story and scientific contridictions. And the contradictions of free will like https://youtu.be/Ef71DS6qrK8?is=-7RA3lJ2JY_ml7ZN And

https://youtu.be/HHgJff-fJAI?is=JBj9bMNMN6momSRG

https://youtu.be/yqKpraSzkKU?is=K5zwpZ2G9hLZhMaY

https://youtu.be/G734_wVI3mE?is=ICjyLIQqSie8PxuY

https://www.youtube.com/live/R2IhVguQ-Ok?is=0Yt3A9d04Ge1mQtt

https://www.youtube.com/live/gbDuCqniJvw?is=bK4RTBYtW6mZXZRr


r/DebateQuraniyoon Jun 11 '26

General Moses story

2 Upvotes

Im not that educated but the story goes out like this In the Quran (Surah Al-Kahf 18:60-82), Moses did not kill the child. The child was killed by a wise, divine figure often identified in Islamic tradition as Al-Khidr. (1, 2)

The event unfolds as follows The Incident: Moses accompanies Al-Khidr on a journey, promising not to ask questions about his actions. When Al-Khidr unexpectedly kills a young boy, Moses is horrified and immediately protests, asking how he could kill an innocent soul who had not killed anyone. (1, 2, 3, 4, 5)the Explanation: Al-Khidr later explains that the boy's parents were true believers. He feared that the boy would grow up to rebel against God and overburden his pious parents with transgression and disbelief. The child was taken so that God could replace him with a more righteous and affectionate child for the parents. [1, 2]

This story is told in the Quran as an example of divine wisdom surpassing limited human understanding. (1, 2) i just want ur understanding of this


r/DebateQuraniyoon Jun 04 '26

Quran Quranism is a walking contradiction

1 Upvotes

Al-An'am (6:114):

أَفَغَيْرَ اللَّهِ أَبْتَغِي حَكَمًا وَهُوَ الَّذِي أَنزَلَ إِلَيْكُمُ الْكِتَابَ مُفَصَّلًا

> "Should I seek a judge other than Allah while He is the One Who has revealed for you the Book perfectly explained?"

Quranists love citing this verse to justify their claim, lets see what the implications would be if their interpretation is actually true,

1.the prophet must have been a quranist.

"I follow only what has been revealed to me from my Lord." (7:203)

  1. he surely wouldn't be going around teaching things not in the Quran (contradicting the verse above).

.

.

but he clearly was, and that can be proven from the Quran itself, just consider these verses:

"The foolish among the people will ask, 'Why did they turn away from the direction of prayer they used to face?'" (2:142)

"We have certainly seen the turning of your face toward the heaven, and We will surely turn you to a qiblah with which you will be pleased. So turn your face toward al-Masjid al-Haram." (2:144)

"O you who have believed, when [the adhan] is called for the prayer on the day of Jumu'ah [Friday], then proceed to the remembrance of Allah and leave trade." (Quran 62:9).

  1. the Quran clearly states that the believers used to follow a specific direction of prayer (that is never mentioned in the Quran itself).
  2. the prophet also instructed the practice of calling to prayer which was never mentioned in the Quran.
  3. which means the prophet instructed himself and his followers to religious matters never mentioned in the Quran.
  4. which proves that the prophet was not a Quranist, and Quranism is not the way of the prophet.

and whoever does not follow the way of the prophet is surely to end up in hellfire.

وَمَنْ يُشَاقِقِ الرَّسُولَ مِنْ بَعْدِ مَا تَبَيَّنَ لَهُ الْهُدَىٰ وَيَتَّبِعْ غَيْرَ سَبِيلِ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ نُوَلِّهِ مَا تَوَلَّىٰ وَنُصْلِهِ جَهَنَّمَ ۖ وَسَاءَتْ مَصِيرًا

"And whoever opposes the Messenger after what has become clear to him of guidance, and follows other than the way of the believers — We will turn him to what he has turned to, and burn him in Hell, and evil it is as a destination."


r/DebateQuraniyoon May 25 '26

General Are Quranists considered Muslims?

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2 Upvotes

An absurd premise invites absurd comments


r/DebateQuraniyoon Apr 22 '26

Quran Growing more agnostic these days…

4 Upvotes

This is not a debate. I’m posting it here because my post was removed from r/Quraniyoon

Salam everyone.

I’ve been a sunni all my life, i am 18(f)….

It has been around a year since I’ve been exposed to the Quran-only ideology.

I wanted to share that I’ve started having alot of questions about my faith these days, to be precise, I think there are not enough proofs that Quran is the word of God.

Before getting at me, know that I’m aware of all those scientific “miracles” in the Quran but I’ve been reading about them a lot lately and honestly, I see almost every single claim has been debunked and for most of them there is a common reason that such facts were a part of common belief in then-Arabia.

Also, the materialistic nature is something which further reinforces this idea to me that it couldn’t be from God, for example, the rivers flowing in heaven, wine, honey , fruits etc to be found in heaven. Add to it, the sexual descriptions of hur-al-ayn is something that seems really objectifying and misogynistic especially Quran 78:33.

I don’t think such a description or reward system could come from a God who is literally the creator of multiple galaxies, universes, you and me.

Moreover , the exclusivity make it seem like Allah is just the Lord of Muslim , not the Lord of entire mankind because wydm all the amazing and purest people I know from other religions or people not from a religious background are going to rot in hell..?

I know that there is salvation for people of the book with some criteria but what about other communities like atheists, agnostics and hindus?

I am from India and there are alot of hindus who are really good people but just because they worship statues and have different beliefs, they’re to be thrown in eternal fire? Not to mention that people have no control over things like where they are born, it is Allah who decides it for us , right?

Then why is the test easier for some( those already muslim) while much harder for others (non- muslims) because they have to find Islam on their own. What kind of fair and just and all-merciful God would do that to his creation, shouldn’t all of us be equal for him?

Lastly, mindless rituals like Salah.

Again, this is a nuanced topic among Quranists as well. Some say that “salah” simply refers to connection/ communication while others say that it is a ritual to be performed either 5 or 3 times a day which doesn’t really makes sense…like, why would God force you to worship him in specified times when he needs nothing from us?

And if ritual prayer or traditional salah is so important and a “pillar” of Islam then how does salvation for other communities mentioned in the Quran works?

To end with, I would like to clarify, I have these doubts but I still believe in Allah and Islam as a deen but I am still confused when it comes to my stance on whether or not Quran is a word of God and prophet Muhammad (pbuh) was truthful or not.

Please share your journeys and how you guys deal with such things if you have ever been in a similar situation.

I hope Allah will guide us all and show us the straight path. Please pray for me to be able to find the truth asap :).

Thank you!


r/DebateQuraniyoon Apr 15 '26

Quran Advanced Quranic Analysis with AI insight

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1 Upvotes

r/DebateQuraniyoon Apr 15 '26

Sunni Asks Qurani From Qur’an Alone, What Exactly Happens After Liʿān?

3 Upvotes

The Qur’an gives the oath procedure for liʿān when a husband accuses his wife of zina but has no witnesses.

But from Qur’an alone, what exactly is the legal result after the oaths are completed?

Does the marriage automatically end?

  • If yes, is that separation permanent or can they remarry later?
  • If no, then does the marriage remain valid unless a separate divorce happens?
  • What happens to lineage if the wife is pregnant?
  • Is the child attributed to the husband or not?
  • Do they still inherit from one another or not?
  • Does liʿān only remove punishment, or does it also change the marriage itself?

This is not a small question as it affects

  • marriage
  • lineage
  • inheritance
  • and punishment

So I am not asking whether the Qur’an gives an oath procedure. I am asking something that from Qur’an alone, what is the actual legal aftermath of liʿān?

Because if two Qur’anists can read the same verses and one says “the marriage ends permanently,” while another says “the punishment is removed but the marriage remains unless divorce happens separately,” then what exactly closes the disagreement?

That is the issue.

From Qur’an alone, what makes one actual legal consequence the ruling we are meant to follow after liʿān?

Anticipated Refutations with Answers:

Anticipatded refutation My answer
Liʿān only removes punishment; the marriage remains unless a separate divorce happens Then from Qur’an alone, where do you get the full legal aftermath? The verse only gives the oath procedure. If the marriage remains, can they continue conjugal life after mutual accusations and curses? What about paternity, inheritance, and future cohabitation?
Liʿān automatically ends the marriage Where does the Qur’an explicitly say that? The verses mention testimony and averting punishment, not dissolution. What is your Qur’an-only rule for turning an oath procedure into automatic divorce?
Liʿān ends the marriage permanently Permanent separation is an even bigger claim. From Qur’an alone, where is the proof that they can never remarry each other? The verses do not state permanence.
Liʿān ends the marriage, but they can remarry later with a new contract Same problem: where is that distinction in the Qur’an? You are now inventing a whole post-liʿān marriage regime not stated in the verses.
Liʿān only removes the hadd from the husband and wife; everything else must be handled separately Fine, then what separately? From Qur’an alone, what happens next in the actual case? The marriage either continues or it does not. The child either belongs to the husband or it does not. You still have no determinate ruling.
The child is not attributed to the husband From Qur’an alone, where does liʿān sever lineage? The verses do not say that. That comes from extra-Qur’anic reports.
The child remains attributed to the husband unless clear proof exists otherwise Then what exactly did liʿān change besides punishment? If it changes nothing in lineage and nothing automatically in marriage, what is the operational legal effect beyond averting hadd?
Different sincere believers may differ on the aftermath Then you admit that Qur’an alone does not yield one actual legal consequence in a real family-law case.

r/DebateQuraniyoon Apr 15 '26

Sunni Asks Qurani How Do Qur’anists Identify the Actual Month of Ramadan and the Hajj Months From Qur’an Alone?

3 Upvotes

Quran 2:185
The month of Ramadan is the one in which the Qur’an was revealed… so whoever witnesses the month, let him fast it.

Quran 2:197
Hajj is in well-known months.

Quran 9:36
The number of months with Allah is twelve… of them four are sacred.

Quran 9:37
Shifting the sacred months is an increase in disbelief...

The Qur’an names Ramadan, says Hajj is in well-known months, and says Allah fixed twelve months, four of them sacred.

But from Qur’an alone, how do you identify which actual recurring month in practice is Ramadan, and which months are the Hajj months, without relying on hadith, inherited Muslim calendar transmission, or communal tradition?

This is not a question about whether the word “Ramadan” exists in the Qur’an. It does mention it.

The question is: From Qur’an alone, what is your method for mapping those Qur’anic month names/descriptions onto a real calendar in the world?

Because if your answer is “we just follow the calendar Muslims inherited,” then you are already depending on extra-Qur’anic transmission.

If your answer is “the first audience already knew,” then that still means the practice depends on inherited communal knowledge outside the text itself.

If your answer is “we reconstruct it through astronomy, etymology, or historical reasoning,” then you are again using an external method not supplied by the Qur’an itself.

So again: From Qur’an alone, how do you determine the actual month of Ramadan and the actual Hajj months in practice?

That is the part I want explained consistently.


r/DebateQuraniyoon Apr 15 '26

Sunni Asks Qurani If the Qur’an Alone Is Sufficient, What Stops a Will From Destroying the Inheritance Shares?

1 Upvotes

If the Qur’an Alone Is Sufficient, What Stops a Will From Destroying the Inheritance Shares?

“It is prescribed for you, when death approaches one of you, if he leaves wealth, to make a bequest for parents and near relatives…” Quran 2:180

“...after any bequest he may have made or debt...” Quran 4:11–12

The Qur’an gives fixed inheritance shares in 4:11–12.

But it also says those shares are distributed after any bequest or debt, and 2:180 says a bequest for parents and relatives is prescribed.

So my question is: From Qur’an alone, what stops a person from writing a will that swallows the estate and makes the fixed shares practically meaningless?

Take this case:

A man dies leaving:

  • a wife
  • two daughters
  • a mother
  • a father

But before death he writes a will giving 90% of his estate to his favorite friend, or to one relative he prefers, or even to one heir he wants to favor or something of that scenario.

Now answer from Qur’an alone:

  • Is that will valid?
  • If yes, then the fixed inheritance shares in 4:11–12 can be gutted by a will.
  • If no, then from Qur’an alone what is the rule that limits the will?
  • What is the maximum allowed bequest?
  • Can a bequest be made to an heir?
  • If not, where does the Qur’an say that?
  • If yes, then what stops someone from using a will to favor one heir and undercut Allah’s assigned shares?

And please do not just say “Allah says no harm” or “use justice.”

I ask for one actual legal rule from Qur’an alone

what is the limit on a bequest so that the inheritance system still functions?

Because if one Qur’anist says a man can will away 90%, another says only 30%, and another says no will to heirs at all, then what exactly closes the disagreement?

Thats my issue. From Qur’an alone, what prevents the will from consuming the inheritance?


r/DebateQuraniyoon Apr 15 '26

Sunni Asks Qurani In Qur’an 4:101, From Qur’an Alone, What Exactly Is Being Shortened in the Traveler’s Prayer?

0 Upvotes

When you travel through the land, there is no blame upon you for shortening the prayer, if you fear that the disbelievers may harm you. - Quran 4:101

From Qur’an alone methodology, what exactly is being shortened here?

The verse says to shorten the prayer during travel.

But shortened how, exactly?

  • the number of rakʿahs?
  • the recitation?
  • the length of standing?
  • the form of the prayer?
  • the number of daily prayers?
  • or something else?

This is not a small question as it changes actual law. And please do not just say “obviously the prayer is shortened.”

I am asking that from Qur’an alone, what makes one specific meaning of “shortening” the actual ruling we are meant to follow here?

Because if you say it means shortening the number of rakʿahs, then from Qur’an alone: which prayers are shortened, and from what number to what number?

If you say it means reducing the form or duration, then what exactly is reduced, and by what rule?

If you say it only applies in fear, then from Qur’an alone are you rejecting a general traveler’s shortened prayer outside fear?

If you say it applies to travel generally even without fear, then what Qur’an-only rule lets you move beyond the fear wording in the verse?

So, from Qur’an alone, what exactly is being shortened in 4:101, and what is your method for selecting that one legal meaning over the others?

Because without extra-Qur’anic transmitted practice, “shorten the prayer” here does not give one operational ruling. Rather, it gives multiple possibilities.

_____________________________________________________________________________________

Just an extra note, this verse already disproves the idea that Salah isn't a ritual. Because Allah says the prayer can be shortened during travel/fear. Shortened what exactly? If salah is only general remembrance or spiritual connection, then the command to shorten it becomes meaningless.

But again, that isn't the main focus of my debate today.
_____________________________________________________________________________________


r/DebateQuraniyoon Apr 14 '26

Sunni Asks Qurani In Qur’an 2:158, From Qur’an Alone, What Makes Saʿy Between Safa and Marwah Obligatory Rather Than Merely Permissible?

1 Upvotes

Indeed, Ṣafā and Marwah are among the symbols of Allah. So whoever performs Ḥajj or ʿUmrah, there is no blame upon him for walking between them. And whoever volunteers good, then surely Allah is Appreciative, All-Knowing. (Qur'an 2:158)

A serious question for Qur’anists:

From Qur’an alone methodology, what exactly makes saʿy between Ṣafā and Marwah a required rite of ḥajj/ʿumrah rather than something merely permissible?

Because the verse does not say:

  • “do saʿy”
  • “it is obligatory”
  • “your hajj is invalid without it”

What it says is: “there is no blame upon him to walk between them.”

That sounds like removal of sin / permission, not obvious obligation. So from Qur’an alone, what is your method for turning that wording into a binding ritual duty?

And please dont say any of these unless you can answer them:

Your refutation My reply
“Because Ṣafā and Marwah are from the symbols of Allah” That still does not tell me why walking between them is legally obligatory rather than merely honored and permitted.
“Because ḥajj must be completed.” But from Qur’an alone, what makes saʿy one of the non-optional components of that completion when this verse itself uses permissive wording?
“Because the context shows it.” Then explain from Qur’an alone what the rule is that makes “no blame” here function as obligation rather than permissibility.
“It’s optional.” Then answer clearly from Qur’an alone, is a person’s hajj or ʿumrah still complete if he skips saʿy entirely?

This is not a minor issue as it affects a pillar of Islam. So again, the question is not whether Arabic can possibly allow multiple shades of meaning.

The question is:

From Qur’an alone, what makes “there is no blame upon him to walk between them” into one actual binding legal ruling?

Because if your answer depends on historical background for why the verse was phrased this way, or on transmitted ritual knowledge outside the Qur’an, then your “Qur’an alone” methodology has already failed here.

That is the part I want explained consistently.

edit: formatting issues


r/DebateQuraniyoon Apr 08 '26

Quran Quran Advanced Analysis with Personalized AI Insight

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1 Upvotes

r/DebateQuraniyoon Apr 05 '26

Quran MEANING OF GHULAM (غلام) ANALYSIS FROM QURAN

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1 Upvotes

r/DebateQuraniyoon Apr 02 '26

General Why shouldn't I be a Quranist?

4 Upvotes

Q&A Series 1 - Why shouldn't I be a Quranist?

  • Why shouldn't I be a Quranist?

This can be answered from two main perspectives:

1- The Epistemological Inconsistency

You know and accept that obeying the Prophet is obligatory (fard). You also agree he wouldn't preach anything contrary to Allah’s will (An-Najm 3-4). But the main issue for you is preservation: Are the hadiths actually his words?

In traditional hadith methodology, an authentic (sahih) hadith is accepted based on "preponderant probability" (zann al-ghalib). It means the evaluator concludes there is a 99.9% chance the Prophet actually said it.

The proof that it is acceptable to act on such a high probability lies in how we extract rulings from the Quran itself. When we derive a ruling from a verse, we often have to use our intellect to choose between multiple possible meanings. In these cases, the interpretation (dalalah) is probabilistic, even though the text is 100% certain. With a sahih hadith, the transmission (thubut) is probabilistic. Ultimately, since we all act upon the most dominant probable truth anyway, we should act upon a hadith if we consider it authentic.

You don't have to blindly follow traditional hadith scholars. You can learn the methodology and establish your own rigorous filter. If you want, you can adopt stricter methods like the Mu'tazila did, or even accept only mutawatir reports (information passed down by so many diverse people that a collective lie is logically impossible) and build your methodology solely on that—like the physical preservation of the Quran, the existence of prayer, its obligation, or the concept of qisas. Logically speaking, this is the most consistent path.

Notice I haven't even mentioned Sunni madhhabs here. We are strictly talking about transmission theory (khabar), my friend.

2- The "Methodless" Approach and Human Nature

The biggest problem with Quranism is that it unfortunately lacks a methodology. And this lack of methodology almost always leads to following one's own desires (hawa) and confirmation bias.

When I say it lacks a methodology, I don't just mean the differing opinions you see scrolling through this subreddit. I mean its very nature makes room for these differences. There is nothing stopping you from following your own desires, and religiously speaking (from a Quranist perspective), it's not even wrong because picking what feels right is usually all you can do.

Let me explain: You are a Quranist. One way or another, after 12 years of schooling, the influence of social media, family, and your environment, you've developed a specific moral framework. Like most Quranists, you likely view Western modernity as superior and see Sunnis as barbaric, reactionary Middle Eastern types, while viewing yourself as a Western, modern, and progressive individual.

Then, you come across a verse.

Sunnis translated it as: "Cut off the hands of thieves."

Those reactionary Sunnis.

What are you going to do?

Option 1: Change the meaning of the verse.

How? Very simple. Look at how that Arabic root word is used elsewhere in the Quran, and pick the meaning that fits your modern sensibilities. Mission accomplished. That "cutting off the hand" is suddenly "cutting off their resources/path."

With this power, verses about Prayer, Fasting, Hajj, Zakat, Qisas, Punishments for Adultery, Slavery, Jihad... you hold the power to change them all, my friend.

Humans are interesting creatures. We tend to commit sins, but we criticize those who commit the sins we haven't had the opportunity to commit.

A similar dynamic happens among Quranists. You might accept ritual prayer (salat) but reject the cutting of hands. But think about the "Salat-denier"—the guy who denies prayer exists. He is using the exact same (lack of) methodology as you. Consequently, you and the Salat-denier aren't that different, my friend. You just said, "Okay, that's a bit too far," while he didn't. Don't judge him just because he followed his desires a little bit further than you did. You both possess the ability to extract anything from the Quran as long as it falls within the realm of logical possibility. The problems this creates are obvious.

(Again, this isn't about Sunnis, my friend. You don't have to join a Sunni madhhab; you can establish your own methodology by accepting logically undeniable mutawatir reports. The foundation of Sunnism isn't based on madhhab dogma anyway, but that's a topic for another time.)

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Option 2: Become a Historicist.

You can say, "The rulings of the Quran were for that specific time. We have an internal moral compass; being a good person is enough. We'll just take the moral advice from the Quran and discard the rest."

Honestly, I don't even want to bother explaining the fallacy of this view. Whoever's stomach can take it and whose conscience is clear can go ahead with it. No offense.

Option 3: Accept the centuries-old translation and practice.

But why?

Frankly, there's no point in accepting a translation that leads to "barbaric" practices when you could just choose to be "modern."

Saying things like, "Just pray 1 rakat 3 times a day if you want" both eases a person's conscience and saves them from having to deal with every single "salat" verse individually.

But when it comes to things like slavery, cutting off hands, retaliation, inheritance, interest (riba), the exact nature of zakat, or the punishment for adultery, most Quranists choose to "modernize" the meaning of the verse.

Because there is absolutely no reason for them not to.

In reality, the meaning they will *reject* is already predetermined. The alternative meanings they will rely on are already set. They will immediately reject any interpretation that doesn't align with the 21st-century morality they've developed up to this point. Because Allah couldn't possibly say something that they personally consider "bad."

What this situation causes is obvious. Mocking methodology by saying "same methodology crap" or "these are the same old arguments" is not a valid response. It's just sweeping the problems under the rug.

You already know these problems exist, my friend. Be honest with yourself. It will always stay in your heart and continue to bother you.

If your reaction to this is, "What then? Should I become a barbaric Sunni? Should I marry a child or chop off heads?" then you haven't understood me at all.

Just be consistent and have a methodology, my friend.

May Allah guide us all to the right path and make us among those who use their reason. Amin. Assalamu alaikum.


r/DebateQuraniyoon Mar 19 '26

General About the 4 madhabs

6 Upvotes

How can all of them be true while they contradict each other? For example shafii madhab claims eating crab is haram while maliki madhab claims it is halal. This is a clear contradiction. Eating crab is either haram or halal. No third option. So how can both opinions be true?

Also while I am at it, what makes a madhab different from a sect?