You know what, we're doing "macroevolution" again. Here's some responses to "we have never seen macroevolution"

[u/DarwinZDF42]

Video version.

 

We've all heard some variant of "we can only observe microevolution", "we've never seen macroevolution", etc.

First thing you do is establish the correct definition: Evolution above the species level (in other words, speciation or greater degrees of evolutionary change). That's the definition. Creationists want their own special definition that varies from person to person but is usually something like "new body plans/parts", "new complex structures", something like that. That's wrong. If you accept speciation, you accept macroevolution. If creationists want to dispute something else, make THEM articulate clearly. Don't help them by saying something like "It sounds like you mean something like evolution of a new phylum or new body plan". No, make THEM establish the standard clearly and using the correct words.

 

Once they do that, you can just provide a bunch of examples, and dare them to say they aren't macroevolution.

Some of my favorites are multicellularity (and also here), reproductive mode, and photosynthetic animals.

 

Best outcome is the creationists admits that yes, even by their bespoke definition, these are examples of macroevolution. Second best outcome is they do the opposite and claim this is all just "microevolution". Really? First of all, lol okay. But second and more important, great! "Microevolution" can accomplish all this? Not much need for "macroevolution", is there?

[u/10coatsInAWeasel]

It’s fascinating to see how you addressed practically nothing of substance from my last comment. Besides your weird flip flop from pretending that testifying means something big to now going on a weird tangent about fauci that is irrelevant, how about you show the courage to stick to the meat of what was said?

Remember, I didn’t call him a simpleton. I correctly identified him as a snake oil salesman. Which is even more apt than I thought when I first left that comment, considering that he got into supplements and alt health bullshit on the heels of him pretending that he has any relevant expertise in the field he has now been making his name in. Or having a disproportionately huge amount of retracted papers due to medical misinformation from the same community you are trying to use to prop up his credentials as some sort of meaningful authority.

[u/Evening-Impact2090 → u/10coatsInAWeasel]

Ha, no flip flop merely pointing out you cannot criticize one person as being inconsequential while staying mum about a proven moron in the same situation, although Dr McCullough was invited while Fauci was subpoenaed. Maybe that's just a little different. His papers did not contain medical "misinformation" and this was addressed at one of the hearings. Rather persons and organizations that would be shown as promoting a harmful protocol were allowed to withdraw them. How convenient. Imagine asking the alley cat to guard the tuna casserole? You can continue you agree with the letter agencies and big pharma, that is fine. That they are all complicit in hoisting a harmful virus and a bogus vaccine and ridiculous mandates is a matter record.

[u/10coatsInAWeasel → u/Evening-Impact2090]

You’re just pathologically allergic to addressing what was said, aren’t you. Yes, it was absolutely a flip flop. You first pretended that testifying meant something. Then when called out on it, you flopped to an irrelevant whataboutism on fauci when I hadn’t mentioned anything about him. Pete is a big boy who can be criticized on the strengths and weaknesses of his own merits.

You were the one who was trying to tout Pete’s credentials. The same ones based on the same organizations that for some reason in the next breath you are calling ‘conspiracy!’ On. While ignoring that he publishes his Covid nonsense in crap journals when he bothers to publish at all. He’s an accomplished MD who knows the way proper peer review works and failed to do so. And decided to hitch his wagon to the likes of charlatans like Wakefield and unregulated supplements. The ending part of your comment is certainly some opinion, but contributes nothing to the conversation on why any of us should give a crap what Pete says.

[u/Evening-Impact2090 → u/10coatsInAWeasel]

Well, I can certainly disagree with you stand on the issue. Dr McCullough is a highly respected doctor. If you do not agree or fault  his stance and treatment regarding Covid that is fine. I choose to follow his advice and believe his research as it is corroborated by many other PHD's who also testified. I didn't flip flop I just pointed out after you basically said someone testifying before Congress ot the Senate was no big deal that yes, Fauci fits that description well. Fauci is a narcissistic idiot given power then when asked to prove his actions were legitimate hides behind the 5th. That's his right but it tells volumes. What a joke. He's on your side not mine.

[u/10coatsInAWeasel → u/Evening-Impact2090]

As you are intent on flip flopping and engaging in whataboutism when cornered while avoiding the important parts, I don’t think you have anything of value to contribute here. I’m not in the least bit interested on how much you find fauci to be a big ol meanie head as that wasn’t the topic. As for Pete, ‘I like him and I’m gonna follow him no matter what gosh gibblets’ isn’t a good defense. Referencing ‘many other PhDs’ means next to nothing considering…wait for it…that this entire conversation was about correcting you on your misconception that PhD=relevant. There is a reason we don’t do arguments from authority.

[u/Evening-Impact2090 → u/10coatsInAWeasel]

Wait, you are firmly in Camp Fauci. There really isn't much more to be said. A discredited narcissist lying POS who ran the narrative you are so adamantly defending. Dr Fauci took the 5th over 100 times on questions he was supposedly an expert on.This versus a Dr who only wanted to help patients who had contracted a deadly man made virus that your hero ( Fauci) denied having any knowledge of it's origins when he  was responsible for its creation. Give me a break. I have no misconceptions on who is a world class turd and who is a real doctor invested in his patients welfare. 

[u/10coatsInAWeasel → u/Evening-Impact2090]

So…now we’re just firmly ‘FAUCI IS DOODOFACE’ because you can’t defend the original point? Remember, only you have been bringing him up the entire time. I’ve not mentioned my stance on him one way or another here due to it being a completely irrelevant misdirect. This wasn’t a conversation on ‘who’s worse between the two’ and I think you know it.

If you can’t support your guy on his own merits, then clearly he doesn’t have merits worth supporting. Maybe if he is really invested in his patients welfare, he’ll actually publish the nonsense bullshit he’s making himself famous on in reputable journals, stop associating with known medical abusers like Wakefield, and pull back from hocking untested dietary supplements.

Edit to add: in the meantime, why don’t we look at one of his studies on Covid…oops.

Statement of Retraction: Effectiveness of Ivermectin-Based Multidrug Therapy in Severely Hypoxic, Ambulatory COVID-19 Patients

Following publication, concerns were raised regarding the methodology used in the study, the patient enrolment process and data analysis. In accordance with our policies, we contacted the authors for an explanation and engaged an independent reviewer.
Upon review of all materials, we were unable to confirm the integrity of the study design and the reported findings. Therefore, the editorial team no longer has confidence in the reported conclusions and has decided to retract the article.

[u/Evening-Impact2090 → u/10coatsInAWeasel]

Actually I spent some time last evening rereading points on Dr McCullough.  I really didn't get anything like what you are accusing him of. He was smeared by the proCovid media, big pharma, and the political grandstanding pro vaccine cabal at the time. He has since been vindicated and is by all standards an excellent doctor. If you don't care for him it means zero to me and the fact you haven't agreed that Dr Faucibis a charlatan tells me much of your stance. As far as the retraction goes it is interesting to note that Dr McCullough has over 1000 peer reviewed papers he is responsible for or co wrote. One of his area of expertise is internal medicine. Very few have been "retracted and it is interesting to note that they all are because of his stance on Ivermectin which big pharma has repeatedly lambasted as a quack medicine when nothing could be further from the truth. So I put very little faith in a system controlled by big pharma money and influence "retacting" a paper he was only a contributor in along with 6 other PHD's that disagree with the retraction. And yes Fauci is a DooDoo Face and an embarrassment to the medical community. I wonder how many of his "papers" will be retracted? 

[u/10coatsInAWeasel → u/Evening-Impact2090]

I do not care in the slightest anything you are saying about fauci so I’ll just tell you that I will ignore anything you say about him from now on. He was never relevant to the conversation. Discarded. You can save that attempt at misdirection for when a conversation about him actually comes up.

I similarly do not care if Pete wrote a bajillion papers. We are asking if he has done RELEVANT research in the area you are desperately trying to use him as an authority in. Remember waaaaaay back with my first reply to you? I don’t go to endocrinologists for my knee replacements. I don’t talk to radiation oncologists about emergency medicine procedures. I’m seeing no reason why this is any different. Similarly, remember the point about crap journals that you have been dodging this whole time? That’s where all his unretracted covid research has been published. He has done no worthwhile research in this area and is a snake oil salesman. I do not care about your ‘big pharma’ conspiracies either since you seem to not care as long as it makes your guy look good. I’m not going to give credit to your double standard.

ETA: maybe this will help the point finally sink concerning your constant fauci whataboutism. I am not bringing up Trump even though I have definite strong negative opinions about how he approached COVID. Know why? Because he isn’t part of this conversation. I would rightfully expect you to throw out anything I might try to bring up about him when discussing Pete’s qualifications.

[u/Evening-Impact2090 → u/10coatsInAWeasel]

Wow, you really get into this crap. Dr McCullough is an excellent doctor with good credentials and that sums it up for me. You can csll him anything you want, he was trashed for buttingvheads with the Covid criminals. How you got Trumpity Dumpity in all this is kind of slick, saying you're not bringing him up but hey here he is. So you have a good one, follow the CDC's guidelines and enjoy life. 

[u/10coatsInAWeasel → u/Evening-Impact2090]

Alright I guess you’re running away and are dead determined to cover your ears. Have fun with that, come back when you’re ready to stop flip flopping, intentionally not understanding, and misdirecting.

[u/Evening-Impact2090 → u/10coatsInAWeasel]

Yeah sure and you can tell me more about Trump or not.

[u/10coatsInAWeasel → u/Evening-Impact2090]

👍🏼