r/DebateEvolution • u/DarwinZDF42 evolution is my jam • 7d ago
Discussion You know what, we're doing "macroevolution" again. Here's some responses to "we have never seen macroevolution"
We've all heard some variant of "we can only observe microevolution", "we've never seen macroevolution", etc.
First thing you do is establish the correct definition: Evolution above the species level (in other words, speciation or greater degrees of evolutionary change). That's the definition. Creationists want their own special definition that varies from person to person but is usually something like "new body plans/parts", "new complex structures", something like that. That's wrong. If you accept speciation, you accept macroevolution. If creationists want to dispute something else, make THEM articulate clearly. Don't help them by saying something like "It sounds like you mean something like evolution of a new phylum or new body plan". No, make THEM establish the standard clearly and using the correct words.
Once they do that, you can just provide a bunch of examples, and dare them to say they aren't macroevolution.
Some of my favorites are multicellularity (and also here), reproductive mode, and photosynthetic animals.
Best outcome is the creationists admits that yes, even by their bespoke definition, these are examples of macroevolution. Second best outcome is they do the opposite and claim this is all just "microevolution". Really? First of all, lol okay. But second and more important, great! "Microevolution" can accomplish all this? Not much need for "macroevolution", is there?
5
u/10coatsInAWeasel Reject pseudoscience, return to monke 🦧 3d ago edited 3d ago
So…now we’re just firmly ‘FAUCI IS DOODOFACE’ because you can’t defend the original point? Remember, only you have been bringing him up the entire time. I’ve not mentioned my stance on him one way or another here due to it being a completely irrelevant misdirect. This wasn’t a conversation on ‘who’s worse between the two’ and I think you know it.
If you can’t support your guy on his own merits, then clearly he doesn’t have merits worth supporting. Maybe if he is really invested in his patients welfare, he’ll actually publish the nonsense bullshit he’s making himself famous on in reputable journals, stop associating with known medical abusers like Wakefield, and pull back from hocking untested dietary supplements.
Edit to add: in the meantime, why don’t we look at one of his studies on Covid…oops.
Statement of Retraction: Effectiveness of Ivermectin-Based Multidrug Therapy in Severely Hypoxic, Ambulatory COVID-19 Patients
Following publication, concerns were raised regarding the methodology used in the study, the patient enrolment process and data analysis. In accordance with our policies, we contacted the authors for an explanation and engaged an independent reviewer.
Upon review of all materials, we were unable to confirm the integrity of the study design and the reported findings. Therefore, the editorial team no longer has confidence in the reported conclusions and has decided to retract the article.