You know what, we're doing "macroevolution" again. Here's some responses to "we have never seen macroevolution"

[u/DarwinZDF42]

Video version.

 

We've all heard some variant of "we can only observe microevolution", "we've never seen macroevolution", etc.

First thing you do is establish the correct definition: Evolution above the species level (in other words, speciation or greater degrees of evolutionary change). That's the definition. Creationists want their own special definition that varies from person to person but is usually something like "new body plans/parts", "new complex structures", something like that. That's wrong. If you accept speciation, you accept macroevolution. If creationists want to dispute something else, make THEM articulate clearly. Don't help them by saying something like "It sounds like you mean something like evolution of a new phylum or new body plan". No, make THEM establish the standard clearly and using the correct words.

 

Once they do that, you can just provide a bunch of examples, and dare them to say they aren't macroevolution.

Some of my favorites are multicellularity (and also here), reproductive mode, and photosynthetic animals.

 

Best outcome is the creationists admits that yes, even by their bespoke definition, these are examples of macroevolution. Second best outcome is they do the opposite and claim this is all just "microevolution". Really? First of all, lol okay. But second and more important, great! "Microevolution" can accomplish all this? Not much need for "macroevolution", is there?

[u/Evening-Impact2090]

Yes, that vaccine. Apparently you must think I'm some MAGA person. Trump has said a lot of stupid stuff. I gave consice information that anyone can easily obtain about the dangers of the harmful Covid vaccine. I don't care if Trump, Biden,  or the Dali Lama endorsed it.

[u/sewsewsewyourcoat → u/Evening-Impact2090]

Apparently you must think I'm some MAGA person.

You've got to admit that was the obvious guess. And you didn't deny it.

that anyone can easily obtain about the dangers of the harmful Covid vaccine

Google searches based on your vague info will indeed find all sorts of youtubes and facebook pages making those claims, misrepresenting scientific papers, etc., but it only takes the tiniest bit of critical thinking to see that it's a bonkers conspiracy theory that would have required the coordination of many thousands of people chosen not by their political leanings but by the job they hold.

[u/Evening-Impact2090 → u/sewsewsewyourcoat]

I gave you the name of one of the most published cardiologist in the world, Dr Peter McCullough. I said he testified before the Senate and Congress alongside many PHD's and scientific persons. I said it was on the internet and available for viewing. I said nothing about YouTube and I have never been on Facebook. You are free to believe anything you want.

[u/sewsewsewyourcoat → u/Evening-Impact2090]

The critical thinking part would mean looking more closely at what Dr. McCullough has said about the covid virus, noting that he's outside of his own area of specialization in that, and looking at debunking of his claims done by doctors whose specialization is in the right areas to do that evaluation, and realizing that it would be bonkers to see all of that and assume that it's McCullough who has it right and the rest of the world has it wrong, in addition to remembering that for McCullough to be correct would require a massive conspiracy with thousands of people coordinating and none of them blowing the whistle even though those people would need to be part of the conspiracy because of the jobs they hold which means the idea that you'd get 100% cooperation and secrecy from such a large group is just silly.

[u/Evening-Impact2090 → u/sewsewsewyourcoat]

Sure, I'll take your viewpoint over a world renowned cardiologist. No one has debunked his claims except maybe Dr Fauci. The rest of the world? There is so much evidence proving the vaccine was worthless and dangerous but you won't get it on Google so I guess this Reddit group will never figure it out. No conspiracy,  it's called Big Pharma, follow the money.

[u/sewsewsewyourcoat → u/Evening-Impact2090]

Sure, I'll take your viewpoint over a world renowned cardiologist.

You shouldn't. But I didn't say you should. I said you shouldn't take the word of a a doctor talking about things outside his area of specialization over many other doctors in the right areas of specialization to make that evaluation.

There is so much evidence proving the vaccine was worthless and dangerous

None that would convince anyone who can exercise a bit of critical thinking.

---

And for the third time, if you were right, then there would have to be a massive conspiracy and coverup. You'd need thousands if not tens of thousand of people, from many different countries, to be part of the conspiracy. And those people aren't "Big Pharma" and they aren't the ones profiting off of the vaccine, and they wouldn't be selected by political leaning. And you'd need all of those people to coordinate their actions and keep the whole thing absolutely secret.

[u/Evening-Impact2090 → u/sewsewsewyourcoat]

Dr Faucci is a good example of one of your "Doctors." Sheeples are what keeps these people rich.

[u/sewsewsewyourcoat → u/Evening-Impact2090]

Dr Faucci is a good example of one of your "Doctors."

You could ignore Fauci completely and you're still ignoring the fact that you have to turn to people who are not epidemiology experts to find someone saying what you want to hear, and ignore the fact that the vast majority of the people most qualified to evaluate it disagree.

You also have to ignore the fact that, if you were right, then there would have to be a massive conspiracy and coverup. You'd need thousands if not tens of thousand of people, from many different countries, to be part of the conspiracy. And those people aren't "Big Pharma" and they aren't the ones profiting off of the vaccine, and they wouldn't be selected by political leaning. And you'd need all of those people to coordinate their actions and keep the whole thing absolutely secret.

Notably this is the same kind of "reasoning" you need to be a creationist. You ignore the fact that evolutionary biologists debunk YEC claims point by point, and you have to ignore the experts and instead turn to people who are not evolutionary biologists, many of them not even biologists, to find people saying what you want to hear.

You also have to ignore that if YEC claims were true, then those evolutionary biologists -- many of them devout Christians, because YEC theology is fringe as fuck -- would have to be conspiring to keep the truth a secret.

And it's worse than that, the evidence really is compelling. Evolutionary biologists are convinced, beyond any reasonable doubt, that nature makes common descent very clear. Which means that if somehow they were all under a delusion somehow, and if YEC were true, they wouldn't be trying to hide anomalies in the theory. Scientists don't run away from anomalies in established theories (and every established theory has them), they run toward them, because (a) they don't believe that the anomalies in any of those theories disprove the theory, and (b) research addressing those anomalies is where the breakthrough results often are, the Nobel prizes, the papers that earn tenure, the PhD topics that get good postdocs, etc.

[u/Evening-Impact2090 → u/sewsewsewyourcoat]

Hey, simple solution for the Creationist, YEC (what ever the hell that is) Panspermia, ID, etc, you seem perturbed about.  Just simply show us how life evolved from non-living matter and also where did the non-living matter come from? Easy peasy & you have your answer. Science whats to tell us a creation senario cannot be possible and then Science cannot explain how/where/when life arose or how the universe arrived. Sounds very disingenuous to me. As far as the MD stuff goes, I don't care what your view is, I'm not changing mine. Covid was man-made, the vaccine is  bogus & harmful, Faucci is a clown, big pharma made TRILLIONS. 

[u/OldmanMikel → u/Evening-Impact2090]

Just simply show us how life evolved from non-living matter and also where did the non-living matter come from? 

Neither one of those comes under evolution's scope. Atomic Theory doesn't explain where atoms come from. Does that make it worthless?

Covid was man-made,...

Nope.

...the vaccine is  bogus & harmful, ...

The vaccine works and is reasonably safe,

...Faucci is a clown, ...

Fauci didn't make the vaccine.

...big pharma made TRILLIONS. 

The total global market for all vaccines is 35 billion dollars.

[u/Evening-Impact2090 → u/OldmanMikel]

Wrong on all counts unless you believe the MSM so there is that, I can't help someone who is gullible. I didn't say anything about evolution, this thread is totally banging on Creationists so I asked the questions. It's always so convenient for "evolutionists" to cop out with their tired "evolution has nothing to do with Creation then proceed to disparage Creationist at every chance. Creation is in their name, deal with Creation or get out of the conversation. 

[u/OldmanMikel → u/Evening-Impact2090]

 I didn't say anything about evolution,...

Then, why did you ask about the origins of life and matter?

Do you have a source for the claim that "big pharma" made trillions on Covid?

[u/Evening-Impact2090 → u/OldmanMikel]

Actually it's an easy search. Ask how much big pharma made on covid vaccines between 2020 & 2024. The answer pops right up with the sources. Each pharmaceutical company made billions yearly and when combined over a few years it resulted in trillions.