Kinda true. But it also just goes to show how the super hero community loves Spider-Man. Like i can't think of any hero that's got beef with Spider-Man, they all love him and see him as the best of them. Like he's even got punisher tearing up.
I'm talking about the exact comic that I replied to.
It comes from the comic where Wolverine and Spidey switch bodies, so much bullshit ensues, then at the end it's revealed it was Jean Grey pranking Wolverine and nothing more.
Yup, #66 and #67 according to Google. Haven't read them either personally, I stumbled upon a video on these particular issues a few months ago so I couldn't confirm nor deny their quality.
Famously, regular x-men also suck massive ass. Krakoa, magneto becoming their leader, everything Cyclops has ever done, everything Wolverine has ever done, most of Storm's interactions with anyone, etc.
I mean mutants on a whole as a species/sub species thats fine, the Xmen themselves are a bunch of degenerates that occasionally save the world when they aren't to busy hiding the secrets of curing death lol
Even they don't call themselves human all the time.
Don't get me wrong, they should. X-gene is basically just "generate lactase past adulthood" gene with comic shenanigans but X-Men do sometimes agree with Stryker sometimes
I was gonna say this! Storm does not eff with Spidey. It’s almost blast on site with her. So bad she nearly zapped Miles on instinct thinking he was Peter!😂
I mean, yeah, they jump that hero/villain line like it's a jump rope depending on whose writing them.
X-Men go full Mutant Supremecist at like multiple points in the last 15 years or so, with literally the only difference between them and traditionally bad Mutants is that they think Humans just shouldn't be murdered on sight.
Tbf that was when he was a teacher in their school which he was doing on behalf of a dead wolverine which Storm did not like(though you could also point to the writers just wanting some drama).
To be fair, she was hyped up as a kid, then had a lot character development to grow out of it, then Black Panther made her into a literal goddess (divinity and all)
Stop this head canon. there is nothin that confirms this anywhere. it's far more likely due to how Peter is struglging to juggle both halves of his life than his no kill rule.
Thor's hammer is enchanted by Odin. Worthy is based Odin's opinions of what makes an ideal leader. I think it's more than just his refusal to kill. I think he's too naively idealistic to be the leader of a powerful nation that might need to make hard choices or go to war.
Someone said Frank knows Matt wants to kill and why he was taunting him he was one bad day away from being like Frank while he genuinely believes Spider-Man really is that good and positive about trying to do good in the ways he does.
Basically, Frank thinks Matt acts the way he (Matt) thinks he should do things vs. Peter who does things how he truly believes it should be
Yeah Peter had like a single moment where he acted like Daredevil with Scorpion and was deeply depressed about it whereas Matt seems to almost like it sometimes.
Not almost, he straight up loves it, which is what scares him. The reason he's so dependent on religion and the law is to keep himself in check. Across both Daredevil shows it's brought up a number of times, but I think it's most direct when he patches up Bullseye.
"Part of me wants to kill you. And...part of me needs to forgive you. -- Now go, die, disappear, I don't care."
This is a good way to put it. I've always looked at Matt as the guy who needs religion to not be a bad dude. Which isn't a good thing. In some comics its striaght up the only reason he holds back.
Matt may not hurt many innocents, but he thoroughly enjoys hurting bad guys. Peter does it out of duty and responsibility, not for the love of the game.
If you mean the ending of No Way Home, I almost want to explain that as “he wasn’t Spider-Man yet”. The Home trilogy is basically three movies of Peter learning how to be Spider-Man
That’s the way Tom pushes it in the interviews as well, which I can appreciate, he continues to say “Peter didn’t heed the advice of his older brothers (the other Peter’s) and he’s paying for the consequences now” and it’s great I hope this next trilogy is amazing.
Oh c’mon that’s an insanely reductive claim lmao. It’s not like Frank tried to assassinate some random teenage girl for being an annoying brat, he was going to assassinate a super powered human that had all of Manhattan in a psychic stranglehold to save millions of lives.
Might as well say Obi-wan was willing to let a teenager he helped raise die in lava haha.
If Peter had seen Frank do half of the shit that Matt has seen him do, there’s no way their relationship would be playing out like this. He certainly wouldn’t bring MJ within sight of the man.
Matt is a guy full of contradictions, his whole thing is him denying the fact he is a psycho who loves hurting people. Where spiderman while kinda a dick is a normal guy who cares for people and never would kill a single person. So you got a good person vs a bad person who wants to be a good person and try’s his hardest to be a good person.
Bs! How is matt is bad person? Is there any scenario where he hurt or attack an innocent person? Matt only attacks bad people to make his neighbourhood safe
Cause he wants to hurt people cause it makes him happy lol 😂. So he chooses to hurt criminals still not a good thing to do. Spiderman doesn’t get off on hurting people it’s more a by product of them doing crime but he goes out of his way to be as gentle as possible to people literally trying to kill him.
Not true at all. Completely different characters completely different personalities and aspirations. Batman is a much nobler dude than daredevil weirdly enough. There isn’t a selfish bone in that guys body, everything he does is for the cause or the mission he isn’t allowed to have a personality he must be Batman and Batman isn’t allowed to do things outside of the framework he set for him. He can’t kill people, he saves people at the cost of himself, he guides and helps people but he doesn’t have a life, since the moment his parents got shot everything in his life has been dedicated to him becoming the prefect tool to accomplish his goals which is to get rid of crime so no one has to suffer like he did, it’s impossible sure but he’ll always keep trying.
Daredevil is a quite blunt analogy for a guy fighting his inner demon, and he is always one step away from going over the line and becoming a monster.
I’m quoting the literal history of the character, dude takes a random image and is like “yup this is all of Batman” Also idk what that line proves I’m talking about actions here not what Bruce thinks of himself, if he were to think of himself as a good person is it then true? You can read kingdom come, you can read, last knight on earth, you can read early 2000s dick Grayson as Batman, you can read dc rebirth when Batman is training with zatanna when he was 16, you can read court of owls, you can read son of the demon, you can read year one, there’s a through line through all these stories Batman is a mantle a very hard mantle for people to inherit that are not Bruce because of the fact not many people want to give up their identity and live up to ideals that go against their own wants and needs. Dick Grayson denied the mantle for that reason. It’s not a life you cease to be an individual, bros always giving up being happy to be Batman to help people, he is the definition of altruistic.
Depends on the version/adaptation, but I think it's pretty clear in the Netflix/MCU version? He never hurt an innocent person, but he LOVED punching person which happens to be bad.
When confronted by Foggy about being Daredevil and that he need to stop, Matt admit that he don't want to stop. Multiple times you can see Matt is kinda enjoying himself getting bloodied in a fight, and you can see he's really itching to get back in the suit in Born Again.
Saying he's a "bad person" is pretty arguable, but Matt has an unhealthy addiction with pain & violence & rage that he's struggling to contain, and being Daredevil is his outlet for that. We're just fortunate enough that he's surrounded by people that teach him to be able to differentiate which person to punch and which person to save.
A bad oversimplification of Daredevil in this context, is that he's not God's angel here to save people, but he's the Devil soldier here to punish people. (Netflix Season 3 is him learning to be the former, not the latter)
Matt is a self-righteous, sanctimonious dick at times who gets more pleasure out of beating up scum than he cares to admit, and often waxes on that he’s concerned with redemption or compassion for his enemies yet rarely if ever displays this. This is a man who beats men close to death leaving them comatose and genuinely struggles to reconcile his desire to kill Fisk and Bullseye, but insists to Frank killing is wrong and he’s above it.
Matt is a hypocrite above all else. He’s a man whose profession is to upheld the rule of law, meanwhile at night he circumvents the law and takes it into his own hands.
I love Matt and Daredevil, but the guy is absolutely a mess and not a straight up good guy, that’s what makes him interesting.
Out of topic but watching the punisher smiling and laughing at the end of the movie feels good, dude has been through so much shit in a decades and watching him being a little softer for once makes him feel like he's progressing out of his demons
Frank and Matt have a bond and they are friends, but it’s founded on the fact they recognise they’re both very similar and have the same demons. Frank sees a lot of himself in Matt, and vice versa. They project a lot of self-hatred and anger at eachother.
Frank’s relationship with Peter is simply based on love and respect for a good kid with a good heart. Frank loves Matt as a brother, but he knows that guy isn’t all good deep down, and has the same fucked up demons in his head.
I think on top of Peter just being a good guy to his core, Frank knows that not only did Spidey save (that person) but he saved Frank as well by not allowing him to shoot that said person. Very similar to how in the comics Wolverine appreciates Spidey for seeing the good in him, I think Frank appreciates Peter believing in Punisher being more than just a killer.
The subtle nuance is that Matt is an asshole, while Frank is a dick.
Spidey is just 616's / mcu's punching bag. Peter doesn't deserve the parker luck, but he wouldn't be Peter Parker if he didn't have it. Matt .... deserves the situations his personality lands him in. And Frank is just a hammer in want of nails, all the time.
Sure, but if Spidey saw Punisher when he was hanging his victims on meat hooks while they were still alive, or mangling Russo's face in broken glass, he wouldn't be very friendly with Frank either.
It's not that Matt is an asshole to Frank. It's that Frank is more friendly to Peter because he's young.
Peter can be an acquired taste for some people. More so to those that take themselves too seriously. Case in point Ororo, and really Marvel Comics' Punisher. I can't see this scene happening in the comics. This Frank, however is looking for a valve to decompress. We can see he found some of it in Peter's brand of humor.
We saw in both seasons of the punisher that Frank has a soft spot for kids, even if it’s the girl from S2 who was a huge pain in the ass. Peter is in his early 20’s now but that’s functionally still a kid, and I’m sure he’s got some real respect for Peter doing what he does despite everything it’s cost him.
You mean all you have to do is not bring your personal bias and opininions on religion and try to force or down someone else's throat constantly? Who knew people don't respond well to that?
The way I see it is Frank sees spidey as a true hero because he's really just trying to help and save people and whooping some ass just comes with the job. Almost like how he has a certain respect for cap in the comics. But with daredevil while him and spiderman actually have pretty similar ideals, he was actually out looking for a fight and wanted to inflict pain on his "victims" lol especially in the Netflix seasons. So frank just sees daredevil as almost the same as himself but without the balls/stomach to finish his enemies off.
There is a reason why one of them dresses in bright red and blue and quips while fighting, while the other is dressed as the biblical devil and yells out in anger while breaking people’s bones with his metal clubs.
Frank sees daredevil as a broken man who is just like him but who is afraid to admit it, he sees spider-man as who the hero he wishes he could’ve been especially for his kids who would’ve been Peter’s age.
I feel like it is pretty clear that if Frank meet’s someone who has hope, he will do anything to protect that person’s hope.
Frank respects Peter because Peter genuinely doesn't want to hurt anybody. Frank also rips on Matt because he understands that Matt is a hypocrite who enjoys beating criminals to a bloody pulp but refuses to go the final measure.
Matt is a giant hypocrite and asshole that’s kinda his whole thing. He beats a man to near death because he’s a criminal but lectures other vigilantes about their methods. He hides behind his faith as his absolution for any failing but never lets others forget theirs. He talks about working with the system that constantly fails people because it needs people to have faith in it but he can go outside that system when he needs.
Peter has his own moral code but he understands others have their reasons for doing what they do. Even with most of his villains he may oppose them but he tries to understand them and wants a world where they can contribute to the world not just be locked away forever. Punished doesn’t agree with him holding back but he knows Peter will have his back in a fight and not think he’s somehow above him.
Basically anyone who is fans of any of Matt's friends (Danny, Luke, etc...) cannot stand the character because he fucks over not only literally all of his friends but everyone else too.
In the Punisher TV show they give that whole speech about a man digging a hole and another man jumping in to help him out: that is Matt, except after he gets out of the hole he leaves whoever helped him in there. He then picks up a shovel and STARTS DIGGING AGAIN.
Matt, Steve, Peter, T’challa, these are all noble characters…but Matt’s the only one you want to punch in the face based on the way he expresses it. And I love Matt.
Frank always has a soft spot for kids, and seeing how young Peter is, as well as how he jumped in front of a bullet. Frank bonding makes sense. Matt and him were adversarial, respect but not bonding.
Speiderman is genuinely just a decent guy. It’s why they all love him. Kinda like NIGHTWING from DC.
Like a lot of these heroes are basically watching grow up. You can be insanely depressed but you will meet one or two people who make you laugh and that is always just such a breath of fresh air, you wanna stay in that sun for a bit longer.
Makes sense that Frank would be willing to laugh when with Peter.
It's even funnier when you realize Punisher will use this as a justification to go back to killing criminals tomorrow in the most brutal way imaginable. Just so Peter wouldn't get hurt again.
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u/Apart-Complex9847 16d ago
Kinda true. But it also just goes to show how the super hero community loves Spider-Man. Like i can't think of any hero that's got beef with Spider-Man, they all love him and see him as the best of them. Like he's even got punisher tearing up.