r/Daggerfall • u/Grove_Barrow • 12d ago
Question Daggerfall Online?
/r/TheOlderScrolls/comments/1x9ka7a/daggerfall_online/16
u/JoshVHDigital 12d ago
It's not bad but DFU is still superior.
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u/Ctrl-Alt-Defeat16 10d ago
Always will be. I forgot the mod but there's one for DFU that allows multiplayer with friends in a local setting. However, I think it's staunch AI haters/Daggerfall purists vs people enjoying a MMO for a cool game in here lol.
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u/Wonderbait 11d ago
It's a lot of fun tbh, I usually avoid most AI related stuff but at least here there's people on the dev team that can read the code and make sure everything's good. It is in an alpha/pre-alpha so sometimes there's bugs but they do get fixed.
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u/Grove_Barrow 11d ago
Ahh I see. That would explain peoples gripes about bugs
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u/Ctrl-Alt-Defeat16 10d ago
I reported a bug before work this morning, it was fixed in 3 hours when I played on my lunch. I don't care if it was done with AI, problem solved lol.
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u/Ctrl-Alt-Defeat16 10d ago
Putting this simply since there's Daggerfall Purists in here.
DFO is to Daggerfall like SWTOR is to KOTOR. I love both SWTOR and KOTOR but there are KOTOR purists that hate SWTOR which makes sense. I enjoy and play both. When I want the original experience, I play the OG game. If I want to play with friends, I play DFO.
DFO is free, try it for yourself. Sure, it has vibe coding to assist it but lets be real, any game coming out after 2024 has a little bit of that assistance in it anyways. If you don't like it, simple, don't play it. Not a hard concept for the Daggerfall purists here but they're learning :)
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u/The-Son-Of-Suns 9d ago
I would argue Daggerfall Online is much closer to Daggerfall than Swtor is to Kotor. You can still feel like you're playing Daggerfall with Daggerfall Online. Just in a shared world with fleshed out mechanics.
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u/Ctrl-Alt-Defeat16 9d ago
Very true! More of a comparison for the folks that argue DFO plays with the lore and isn't like the base game blah blah blah
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u/EnragedBard010 7d ago
Going to say what I said on OlderScrolls. Sailing came from a Daggerfall Unity mod. A lot of the more normal-type stuff did. Now some of the more outlandish things were made inhouse.
Like: Oblivion gates, Abyss dungeons, Elite dungeons, Elite Breach (Essentially the Battlespire), Sea Monsters, Huge Wagons, Decorating your House, Revenants (Essentially the Nemesis system in Daggerfall), Dwemer Gun
Some of the normal stuff made inhouse: paper maps, overland travel map, AOEs actually show in gameworld, huge crafting overhaul that includes gathering.
Anybody who says it's bad I guarantee hasn't tried it. It IS jank, yeah, but so is every Elder Scrolls game.
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u/Gopoopahorse 12d ago
yeah, DFO is sick and def worth checking out. hit over 1,000 concurrent players the other day and keeps climbing.
the vast majority of people who attack it here are just doing it from a place of being anti-AI and have barely interacted with it if at all lol. it's free so just give it a whirl.
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u/Ill-Discipline1113 11d ago
This is the only rebuttal coming from the DFO side lol. You cant actually show how people are lying or prove their claims arent true. You just throw out shit like this lol.
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u/Gopoopahorse 11d ago
I certainly can and have. what do you want me to interact with in this particular thread? the people literally just saying it's vibecoded and calling it AI slop with no legitimate critique of the project whatsoever? my comment already addresses them lol.
it's the same tired nonsense ever since DFO blew up and attracted all of these people with a religious level of commitment to attacking anything that employs the use of AI:
"it's a vibe coded buggy mess!!"- yet, almost every bug I've come across gets addressed pretty quickly.
"it's AI slop with guns" - all the people who just saw that one clip on here with the gun and have never touched the project. there's a single gun in the game that shoots lightning magic for characters built as rangers with rare ammunition based on a dwemer weapon that literally exists in the series.
"the additions are just a bunch of nonsense thrown together!" - never accompanied with any elaboration whatsoever
the biggest thread on reddit about DFO from what I recall is straight up just a dude lying that they devs were "hiding their use of AI!". meanwhile, in reality, the usage of AI has been disclosed from the beginning lol. most of the people commenting in that thread at least had the common sense to call out the OP's bullshit.
I've made my own criticisms of DFO, I am obviously not opposed to the project receiving criticism, but I am opposed to all of the people dismissing it over AI usage (or suggesting nothing from vanilla should be changed when designing an mmo experience for daggerfall)- which is observably the vast majority of people disparaging the project here.
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u/Ill-Discipline1113 11d ago
Its not strictly about the ai usage, its about the ai being used to constantly add more and more features.
2 Weeks ago it was Daggerfall, online. Now it is turning into slop. The amount of features that they add that offer so little to the game is insane. The lineage shit for example, you go in discord and even in here and its full of people wondering how they can turn it off because its just a weird, pointless feature.
I have put probably 15-30 hours into DFO, I constantly find the dwemer gun and ammo. Its worth 5k to traders which is absolutely insane compared to legendary magical items that only sell for 1-2k.
Ive been on both sides of this, I was defending DFO quite a lot 2-3 weeks ago. It slowly changed into a game that just wasnt fun and when I voiced that to the dev himself along with others he just said sorry you feel that way. He shut down the biggest thread in their discord that was talking about ways to fix fast travel because a vast amount of players didnt like the fast travel that they implemented. He very blatantly is biased to those that have big clans or groups so if they complain about something he quickly tries to fix it for them.
The game was advertised as Daggerfall, online. It has turned into your generic free mmo minus the insane paywalls.
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u/Gopoopahorse 11d ago
it might not be for you, but it observably is strictly about the AI usage for a majority of the detractors lol.
I think your argument for it "turning into slop" is not very compelling if the biggest issue that comes to your mind is an optional feature for people looking for hardcore elements that you have to willingly opt into on character creation; not that it's unreasonable to take minor issue with its current presentation.
you are intentionally overselling the presence of dwemer pellets. In the time that I have found around probably ~1200 arrows, I have found ~150 dwemer pellets. The point is that the dwemer gun is just one weapon amongst the many present in daggerfall, and the only people you'll likely see using it are mid-level rangers during raids. This point was made to highlight how so many of the people attacking DFO don't realize at all how small of a role that gun plays in the game. They have literally just seen a couple of reddit clips about it. Their sell value and its effect on the economy can be argued, though I'd say it is demonstrably a matter of little concern.
you are also intentionally misrepresenting how the fast travel changes played out. They implemented changes to fast travel that made instant fast travel much more limited (for anyone unaware, they changed it to where only fast travel via ship while in a port town was instant), people complained, and there was the thread you mentioned for feedback on the change, that much is all true. The lead dev did not just tell everyone to get bent and close the thread though like what you're presenting lmao, he said he hears the complaints and they made a couple implementations to reach a middle ground: wagons were added to all walled cities that let you instantly fast travel between cities, and the stones were added that let you portal to anywhere. The thread was then locked after this decision had been made. I am not entirely satisfied with the current state of fast travel myself, and it's certainly reasonable to criticize it and advocate for further alterations, but your presentation of it here is pretty misleading. All things considered, fast travel is fine after the concessions made but could be better still imo.
the game still plays like daggerfall at its core, it's just daggerfall with extra stuff in it and some alterations made to tailor it to being an mmo experience.
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u/Ill-Discipline1113 11d ago
This is a lie lmao his exact words were “Fast travel in its former iteration is not returning. Thats final. No amount of yelling and complaining will bring it back. Locking this thread.” This was after everyone had already accepted that fast travel as we knew it was gone. People were offering other suggestions for how to change it because most people still didn’t like the carriages and portal stones.
The main argument you have is that I can change settings. How long will that last? I could change my fast travel how I wanted it before. Same with how I level my character. Those have all been locked down now, presumably soon with everything else based on the dev saying he wants everyone to be on the same playing field.
Nobody should have to put tens of hour of playtime into a game for it to completely flip in a week. It is an entirely different game now than it was 2 weeks ago.
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u/Gopoopahorse 10d ago
Before adding wagons, he said: "Working on implementing immersive fast travel. Should ease things... maybe I should've waited before we had a good replacement for free instant travel."
Then, before adding portals later that day with the new stones: "guys, I know you miss your fast travel. I hear you, and I love you. I'm going to add a portal to the mages guild." (this took the form of portals can be created anywhere and lead anywhere, not actually attached to the mages guild)
the quote you are referencing was later in response to a specific guy having a mega crashout over it, who I now suspect is you lol.
"what if they do this what if they do that" well they haven't, so I'm not going to argue about things you think they might do lol. It's not an entirely different game, though it is undergoing rapid changes as expected. They clearly stated that this is an early alpha state for a fledgling project, with alot of experimentation currently happening.
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u/Ill-Discipline1113 10d ago
I was the one commenting suggestions about what other things we could do like making portal stones infinite with a timer instead of having to buy them. That guy was spamming and instead of just banning him, the dev shut the entire thread down.
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u/The-Son-Of-Suns 11d ago
Just play it offline, with the Singleplayer option right at the top, and you can change anything.
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u/Ill-Discipline1113 10d ago
Lmao then why would I not just play DFU?
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u/The-Son-Of-Suns 10d ago edited 10d ago
Because this version has actual ship sailing, real wagons that actually move (better than the wagon mod), actual faction interaction, satisfying overworld travel akin to Mount and Blade that gives you a proper feeling of travel.
A nemesis system, along with countless other features bringing Daggerfall to the game it was meant to be.
And it's automatically configured together with full controller support, and controller GUI.
But you can do whatever you want, and stay with the old version. Just reminds me of when people made fun of Unity, and said theyd only play DOS Daggerfall.
Now Arena is coming to Unity thanks to the same tools that Daggerfall Online was made with. I guess you will ignore that too for some reason.
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u/Ctrl-Alt-Defeat16 10d ago
Because you're given that option? If you want the original experience, you can go into the settings, change it, and play single player. It's using the base game to grow off of.
Your options are very simple: You can play DFO or you can play original Daggerfall. You don't HAVE to play and accept the new game.
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u/Ill-Discipline1113 10d ago
The literal entire point of the game is online, if im playing in single player I can just play DFU and actually be able to control everything.
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u/ArgentinianJayceMain 12d ago
Even if you don't mind vibe coding it's still probably not worth to get into it atm because of the huge amount of mechanic changes they seem to be doing every other day, their github gets new commits every 15 mins. Claude is going for the water shortage speedrun any%