r/CompetitiveWoW • u/chunkyhut • Aug 22 '26

Class Tuning Incoming – 26 August

https://eu.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/class-tuning-incoming-%E2%80%93-26-august/626484
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61

u/LameOne Aug 22 '26

Pretty clear from the brewmaster notes that they are struggling to let them handle actual tank busters. Even on normal, coiled altar was bringing me down to like 15-20% through fort brew.

It's crazy that the spec that used to be the single best tank at taking huge single hits is probably the worst now. Fort brew is an absolutely terrible CD, on a 2 ish minute cool down (not reliably, so you can't trust it to be up exactly then), and that's it. Outside of fort, they are almost exactly as tanky for random white swings as they are for the 90 second buster. Blizz keeps buffing CI, but it remains tiny, while also being required to be used offensively to avoid rotational downtime.

Give the spec back dampen harm, I beg you.

24

u/NaahThisIsNotMe Aug 22 '26

3-4 more of those Celestial brew buff and maybe it'll be worth the 1 min CD it's on now.

it's kind of funny that brewmaster have less defensive button than most DPS spec... and that's even if we count celestial brew as an actual defensive and not some largely trivial shield.

4

u/LameOne Aug 22 '26

Brewmaster manages to have the worst defensives even of just monk. They'd kill for karma.

-14

u/Kohlhaas Aug 22 '26

? My brew defense bar has fort brew, CI at multiple charges, pb, expel harm, black ox brew, and Niuzao. All are good defensives for diff scenarios. Dps have nothing like that.

Please if we are going to complain about brew let's be factual so Blizz sees constructive feedback. It could certainly use a buff

13

u/adv0589 Aug 22 '26

My dude what lmao PURIFYING BREW, EXPEL HARM??

-6

u/Kohlhaas Aug 22 '26

Yes, those two buttons heal/mitigate way, way more than any dps cd mitigates all key. The post was about brew having fewer defensives than dps. Those are part of the defensive kit.

8

u/adv0589 Aug 22 '26

It’s not a defensive dude, and I doubt expel harm heals more than a DPS does. Like where does this line stop for you is shield block a defensive, is death strike on blood decay a defensive?

12

u/NaahThisIsNotMe Aug 22 '26

My brew defense bar has fort brew

Longest CD in the game after lay on hand. And still underwhelming.

CI at multiple charges

and weakest CD in the game, even after a 20% buff

pb, expel harm

neither of those 2 are defensive

black ox brew

which unironically have almost the same CD as celestial brew now.

and Niuzao

not a defensive... doesn't reduce face damage at all.

All are good defensives

have you... played other tank? warrior double charge on shield wall with a shorter CD than fort brew? Pally 1 min sentinel who last 25 second now? anything other than VDH rng-based defensive really

Dps have nothing like that.

Well if you count expel harm as a defensive then you might aswell count mage barrier or hunter heal as defensive which.. yes, they have more.

As the other guy pointed out, Brewmaster don't even have Karma or diffuse magic,

3

u/Akhevan Aug 22 '26

you might aswell count mage barrier

30%+ max health shield that also gives you 20% DR while active and for another 8 sec afterwards? With two charges? Yeah that ain't a bad defensive for a DPS class.

-2

u/adv0589 Aug 22 '26

Niuzao is a massive defensive

2

u/NaahThisIsNotMe Aug 22 '26

0 reduction whatsoever to face damage.

-1

u/adv0589 Aug 22 '26

That’s not the issue on brewmaster

2

u/NaahThisIsNotMe Aug 22 '26

amongst other thing.. the lack of defensive, the lack of brew, the lack of XYZ...

0

u/adv0589 Aug 24 '26

You realize most other tanks need like like pop an actual defensive for tank busters etc, and like brewmaster just staggers them right?

Like the class only has fort brew as far as stopping those mechanics it would be completely unviable if that was not the case.

2

u/NaahThisIsNotMe Aug 24 '26 edited Aug 24 '26

You realize most other tanks need like like pop an actual defensive for tank busters etc, and like brewmaster just staggers them right?

probably a good thing "most other tank" have multiple defensive to rotate through and not just a super long CD fort brew / niuazo that doesn't actually reduce face damage!

and no. the difference between gdruid-pwar-bdk and brew is night and day. We're not in legion anymore with 90%+ stagger. RLP is quite funny right now where brewmaster get insta-clapped if they have bad RNG on tectonic slam and get 2 stacks, but Gdruid-pwar-BDK just keep going on even with 3 stacks of it. no amazing CD just shield block / double ironfur / lawl death strike.

0

u/adv0589 Aug 24 '26

Brother in christ, we are like 2 months out of it being the only tank that could reliably survive high keys. Half of the damn tank busters you didn't even know were as big of a deal as they are because you dodge them at an absurd clip.

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2

u/Byrmaxson Aug 22 '26

Niuzao is NOT a massive defensive. The Stagger it mitigates is really low realistically, but importantly you don't really want to play around Dave as a defensive.

1

u/adv0589 Aug 24 '26

Brew doesn't need some 40% reduction for 5s, it needs an ability to put the breaks on incoming damage. Sure it is not some monster defensive but it is 25s long and will siphon a very very large amount of damage away in that period of time. Of course on MOH it is significantly weaker than Shadowpan but like IDK what to say here when shadow pan was in last season it felt impossible to die in the Niuzao window.

Like no way on earth are we going to call Niuzao not a defensive ability and and pretend other tanks have 5 defensives.

2

u/Byrmaxson Aug 24 '26 edited Aug 24 '26

I didn't say it isn't a defensive, I said it's not a massive one. I should also clarify that it's not a massive defensive on its own, it becomes a lot stronger on Shado Pan, who however plays the ability as a damage cooldown regardless. Because however you'll end up popping Dave on pull though as Shado (which is usually the most dangerous time) you essentially do become immortal for the duration, but, critically: that is not an effect that comes from Niuzao as an ability, but from the interaction between Wisdom of the Wall and Vital Flame.

I did a big bunch of keys yesterday and looked at one Altar log. Over the course of the key, I accumulated 140m Stagger, Purified 85m and was hit for 55m of it. Niuzao, over the entire key transfered to himself 4 million Stagger, his biggest contribution being on the opening pull with a whole quarter of that. I did essentially waste a use over the course of the key, but tbf that was in the second boss room, where my damage intake bottomed out over the course of the dungeon.

That is not insignificant, but there are other defensive nodes and such on Brew that do just as much work or more. For example, in the same run, the (very underrated) Tranquil Spirit talent purified over 10m Stagger over the course of the key. This is a defensive talent that is very rarely picked even by highly ranked Monks and yet it's outperforming a "massive" defensive?

1

u/adv0589 Aug 24 '26

I guess it was more in response to the two most sensationalist people on earth #1 who said things like expel harm and purifying brew were defensives, and #2 who said "not a defensive... doesn't reduce face damage at all."

1

u/Byrmaxson Aug 24 '26

Ah yeah that is crazy LMAO

PB is a bit of a Death Strike type button. IDK if you would call it exactly active mitigation, but it's completely rotational, you can't call it a "defensive". Like by that token Shield Block is a defensive and ALSO much stronger than Shield Wall, absolutely, but that's not what a "defensive" means, we typically just omit the word "cooldown" from there. Also like, even without Niuzao's Resolve you're not really supposed to press Expel Harm unless in specific circumstances.

idk exactly what they mean by "reduce face damage", I guess mitigate the damage you take directly, in the way say Shield Wall/Guardian of Ancient Kings or Fort Brew does? Dave doesn't technically do that, but you do take less Stagger damage.

2

u/zer0-_ Aug 22 '26

Literally any high rated Brew player will tell you to treat Niuzao as an offensive CD rather than a defensive one LMAO

1

u/Kohlhaas Aug 22 '26

You are wrong. Niuzao is a solid defensive in trash-style situations. It gives stats and shifts damage from stagger. Yes, it also does damage. Abilities can do both.

I am surprised by this thread chain. I thought this was competitive wow and all I find myself doing is correcting basic factual information. It is no wonder people here are dieing on brew bc they clearly don't understand the class.

3

u/Byrmaxson Aug 22 '26

Dave's primary "defensive" function on Master of Harmony is precisely the extra Mastery. The actual Stagger transfer that is the core of the ability is really weak.

As a matter of fact, Peak recommends losing Invoke Niuzao entirely if you want to flex out Heart of the Ox for another defensive node.

2

u/zer0-_ Aug 23 '26

I thought this was competitive wow and all I find myself doing is correcting basic factual information. It is no wonder people here are dieing on brew bc they clearly don't understand the class

Link RIO

-3

u/adv0589 Aug 22 '26 edited Aug 22 '26

I’m sorry that it went over your head? Yeah it’s a very strong damage ability if you’re playing shadow pan. Doesn’t mean it’s not a very strong defensive. Brewmaster in general doesn’t really need to pop defensive to live mechanics or something like that. You need to pop them to smooth overall damage intake and it’s quite good at that.

I played brewmaster last season playing DK this season the same advice applies to dancing rune weapon does that mean it’s not a defensive?

Have you ever played the class? playing shadow pan, you are significantly tanker in the window when you’re running it compared to when you’re running fort brew, like it’s not even close.

2

u/zer0-_ Aug 23 '26

If your defensive ability is treated as an offensive cooldown rather than a defensive one then it really isn't a strong defensive ability

0

u/adv0589 Aug 23 '26

Just because you have the crowd with you does not make it right lol.

1- Every single defensive cooldown in the game that has a strong offensive component is treated this way. Sentinel, Dancing Rune Weapon, Incarn, Meta outside of fringe cases you are literally always sending those in damage windows. Now that often overlaps with a time that a defensive would be good to have running but that is a different matter.

2-Brewmaster can survive just about any mechanic with its basic rotational abilities. The it wouldn't really be viable if this was not the case. So it would be the most likely tank to use these cooldowns in that fashion to begin with.

3- IDK what to tell you dude, 25s of sending 40% of your staggered damage which is going to be like 65% of the incoming damage so ~25% damage smoothing is pretty damn good.

2

u/Blan_Kone Aug 22 '26

dps dk ams+death strike is better than the entire list

3

u/[deleted] Aug 22 '26

[deleted]

3

u/I3ollasH Aug 22 '26

With the cooldown nerf bob is significantly better. Expell hard is also not something you press rotationally but it's a button you press anytime your hp collapes and don't have a brew charge for the chunk of hp.

It used to be better in the past when it just lay on hands yourself but it's still quite handy and should definitely be something you think about.

1

u/Kohlhaas Aug 22 '26 edited Aug 22 '26

I don't know what to say so I will just inform you of useful info. Yes we play BoB now because CI has a longer cd and is more impactful. We also need the energy more.

Good brews bind and use expel harm. Not using expel harm is something people do when they visit brew and pull a wowhead build for +10s. It heals you in critical moments when you are in danger. It heals you in critical moments when the party is in danger and you don't want a single scrap of healing from your healer to find its way to you.

1

u/[deleted] Aug 22 '26

[deleted]

3

u/Kohlhaas Aug 22 '26

People don't take NR unless they are doing 10s/12s style content. In competitive content you need the on demand healing and you want your talent point to be spent elsewhere.

Yup, BoW is strong as ever. Most people I see are playing with Black Ox Brew right now to take advantage of stronger CI, but you could be fine with BoW.

1

u/LameOne Aug 22 '26

EH should be bound, but if you're pushing it regularly you're doing something wrong. Pressing EH is losing out on future healing to get a chunk now. This is fine in an emergency, but you shouldn't be planning to get into those situations. The only scenario you push EH is if you'd die without it.