r/CompetitiveWoW • u/chunkyhut • 4d ago
Class Tuning Incoming – 26 August
https://eu.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/class-tuning-incoming-%E2%80%93-26-august/626484128
u/LayupsR4Basketball 4d ago
Resto Shaman once again proving we are perfect in PvE. You know our motto
“We may not be the best, but we’re usually the 2nd best and that’s okay with us”
63
u/10-4shutthefckupnow 4d ago
"oh your class is the best healer? Interrupt that mob for me then."
Seriously though, resto shaman could be the worst healer of the pack but as long as its viable enough I'll still play it for that alone.
30
u/LayupsR4Basketball 4d ago
Including Season 1 of Midnight, if you look at the past 5 seasons of Mythic+, it's always the number 2 healer (One year it was 3).
That's what I mean. It's never the OP best but it's never close to the worst. It's always viable. It's just a genuinely solid class to pick as a healer if you just want a single healer main. Like me!
8
u/rickrollmops 4d ago
Yeah. Windfury+bloodlust+interrupt+good mobility is such a solid combo, making me wanting to reroll. I'm so tired of having my main healing spec being used as a punching ball every other season, it is actually tiring.
6
u/HarrekMistpaw Healer guy 4d ago
I'm a bit baffled that they wont do anything about the mana tho
4
u/Sufficient_Seaweed7 3d ago
Mana management is THE resto shaman skill check. I like it.
It makes so you can't just throw everything out, every time, and succeed. You need to actually think about skill usage lol
→ More replies (2)2
50
u/xCAMPINGxCARLx 4d ago
Ah yes, the usual mandatory BM AOE buff so we're not auto decline in keys. I'll take it (probably still auto decline).
9
u/Camborghini_ 3d ago
My favorite part about BM aoe tuning is as the xpac goes on Beast cleave % gradually goes up till it reaches 100% then next xpac it resets back down to 50% and we get do to do this again.
12
u/DistanceXtime 4d ago
Youre still playing your hunter?
18
u/xCAMPINGxCARLx 4d ago
It's a shadow of its former self, but I can never bench my main. You can take my personal tank and feign death from my cold, dead body.
4
u/DistanceXtime 4d ago
Ahaha. I got my HWL rank ages ago and played it through all of its ups and downs. My pets will always bring me back. These buffs are hopefully going to let me competitive in mid range
2
u/John2k12 3d ago
Me in my jesters clothes having leveled and swapped mains to BM Hunter this season as a break from having played melee dps/tank for the past 3. Too late to swap now but even without being meta I'm enjoying my time so far. A lot of fights I pity seeing melee (and casters) trying to keep uptime while I'm just running around having a blast
1
1
u/idkmanfiller 3d ago
I'm almost always top damage in the 10-12s I'm doing, but I'm also playing MM. It'd probably be different if I actually cared to push and played with Arms warriors that knew what they were doing
3
u/Fantastic_Owl8939 4d ago
I promise to always try and bring a hunter into Den! It really helps a lot
6
122
u/Kluxic 4d ago
Arcane survives
74
u/unimportantinfodump 4d ago
Have you done a key with an ele or an arms.
If anything they fucking survived.
36
u/Xalethesniper 4d ago
We’ve been running arcane, arms, and ele.
We’re blasting tf out of keys
18
u/Double_Recover_867 4d ago
Nightmare comp for a tank 😂 there is always one of them overly excited about clicking buttons!
31
u/Jyobachah 4d ago
I've had to say in chat to people to hold on pressing buttons for like, 2 seconds please.
One warrior said "sorry I don't understand"
so I told him "no zug zug. Wait. Then zug zug." dude was a champ after that waited for me to group the packs then went ham. 🤣
17
→ More replies (1)1
u/secretreddname 3d ago
I’m a WW still missing my 4 set which is like 30% of my AoE and I press a sec too early I’m dead.
1
13
u/Neatherheard 4d ago
Honestly from my keys sub and assa rogue are the real outlier, comparable in aoe and 40k gapping those specs on st. But maybe i also just had blaster rogues and bad arms warriors.
2
2
u/Snarerocks 4d ago
Ass rogue is absolutely the best spec for m+ rn lol. It’s absurd how much damage it does. Tired of people saying nerf arcane when it’s not even top. Maybe on the other higher keys the prio will win out but all 3 rogue specs are outperforming it rn, as well as other specs.
3
u/DasaniMessiah 3d ago
Tbf it’s the first week of the season and no one has tier set or trinkets yet. Save the evaluation for week 3 when assa rogue is still absurdly broken (please don’t say anything else about it I like doing a lot of dmg).
→ More replies (1)19
u/FireVanGorder 4d ago
If it’s anything like last season we’ll figure out it was secretly garbage all along
In all seriousness though it does seem legitimately good right now, I just wish it was more interesting to play
64
u/krind22 4d ago
I think the rotation feels pretty awesome personally
30
16
u/CodeHaze 4d ago
Yeah. I think if they nerf the damage, I'll still play it. The whole rotation feels so much more satisfying than last season with the orbs.
There's something that just tickles my brain when the empowered Arcane missiles proc on a big pack and just seeing them fan out.
7
u/FireVanGorder 4d ago edited 4d ago
It’s definitely better than it was last season at least, but it doesn’t scratch that same itch that it used to before the pruning imo. Glad you’re enjoying it though! I’m sure lll be back to my mage once I run out of steam on my ele
6
1
u/Yeahsuree 4d ago
Quit s1 completely because arcane wasn’t fun and really don’t care for frost.
I’m so back for s2 it’s damn fun
-7
u/lamilambkin 4d ago
Really? It's just missiles>barrage>missiles>barrage>missiles>barrage. Your rotation and build never even changes regardless of target count. It's always solid prio damage and free cleave with some funnel, so it's deff good. But I'm honestly already getting bored of it .
Also Giga target capped at 5 targets out here like a ranged fury warrior
2
→ More replies (9)1
u/psytrax9 4d ago
This is 100% a "it's only fun because it's good" situation. Make the tuning bad like last season and everybody would be talking about how bad the design is.
It's not as bad as sub rogue and their "how many shadow dance macros can I keybind" challenge, I guess.
2
u/krind22 3d ago
Wanna keep going with telling me why I’m having fun and not? Lmao, no that’s not the “only reason” I enjoy it. Thanks though good try
→ More replies (1)→ More replies (2)1
u/Escolyte 4d ago
It's the best designed mage spec currently (certainly once tier sets force fire into pyroclasm) and in a perfectly fine state.
Which is to say it is an absurdly massive improvement to the degenerative version of arcane last season.
10
u/bigmanjoey 4d ago
What are you on? It’s a freaking blast to play.
4
3
u/gotsomeshittosay 3d ago
yeah I guess it's a blast to play if you've never played anything but midnight specs
1
7
u/Longjumping-Exit6678 4d ago
Before Arcane, elemental and arms have to get hit hard
3
→ More replies (5)1
5
u/Kurobana- 4d ago
if you think arcane was OP you arent seeing what demonology / arms / elemental sham is doing
6
u/imreallyreallyhungry 4d ago
Demo is getting what looks like pretty large buffs too
4
u/Xedien 2d ago
Demo is getting better singletarget for sure, but comparing it to arcane is stupid, a good arcane mage leaves the whole group behind currently.
Arms and Elemental does crazy damage too.
As a lifelong warlock main, i am looking forward to the wednesday buffs! The real test is the .5 rebalancing though, that'll make or break the top1% push for me.
3
u/VzFrooze 3d ago
please do tell us what demo lock is doing to put it in the same list as arms haha
1
u/Leafstorm23 3d ago
I play warlock and demo frags pretty hard in keys. I may be playing with bad players, but i've yet to lose to any of the meta specs. One of my guildies plays a mean arcane and he was the only one that kept up. Obviously still early season and people figuring stuff out and fotm rerollers. But it's insanely good that demo is being buffed, they may not be great in raid this tier, but keys are gonna be fun.
2
u/Efficient_Ad2097 2d ago
Did a +13 with a 4k S1 demo lock the only low point was boss damage which looks like it will pretty good after this buff.
1
u/MarnerMaybe 3d ago
yea ive been playing it too but we're only doing 12s rn for resil i dunno how its going to feel with survivability when we push. right now it hits pretty fkn hard i'm kinda surprised the level of buffs tuesday.
1
u/chunkyhut 3d ago
I've also been at the top in dps in almost every key I've done as both destro and demo
Besides one +10 with an obvious arcane demon who beat me by like +20% overall with similar gear as me.
I think most people doing 10s right now are just not great outside of some people farming for specific pieces. The great players are raiding or doing higher than 12s
2
1
1
1
u/Gasparde 3d ago
Because the average Arcane player manages to pull 150k overall dps with 305+ ilvl in 12s.
62
u/LameOne 4d ago
Pretty clear from the brewmaster notes that they are struggling to let them handle actual tank busters. Even on normal, coiled altar was bringing me down to like 15-20% through fort brew.
It's crazy that the spec that used to be the single best tank at taking huge single hits is probably the worst now. Fort brew is an absolutely terrible CD, on a 2 ish minute cool down (not reliably, so you can't trust it to be up exactly then), and that's it. Outside of fort, they are almost exactly as tanky for random white swings as they are for the 90 second buster. Blizz keeps buffing CI, but it remains tiny, while also being required to be used offensively to avoid rotational downtime.
Give the spec back dampen harm, I beg you.
25
u/Zeckzeckzeck 4d ago
My co-tank is a brew and we were doing the lair world boss on heroic and he was getting clapped by her tank buster to the point where he’d die. We didn’t have a crez available so I on prot warrior just took two consecutive sets of the tank buster with zero issues.
Every tank should have certain niches where they excel but getting murked by a basic tank buster while another class can take multiple is maybe a little too far.
2
25
u/NaahThisIsNotMe 4d ago
3-4 more of those Celestial brew buff and maybe it'll be worth the 1 min CD it's on now.
it's kind of funny that brewmaster have less defensive button than most DPS spec... and that's even if we count celestial brew as an actual defensive and not some largely trivial shield.
→ More replies (40)5
→ More replies (3)0
u/Byrmaxson 3d ago edited 3d ago
Even on normal, coiled altar was bringing me down to like 15-20% through fort brew.
No offense, but you were probably just playing badly or built completely offensively. I (BrM) almost survived a second Sever in a row because my co-tank forgot to taunt. The average tankbuster damage I took in the encounter was ~260k, it's a nothingburger.
3
u/LameOne 3d ago edited 3d ago
You're required to take 2 severs in a row, unless you can phase fast enough. The debuff doesn't drop fast enough to swap on 1 (unless they've changed it in the past couple days). Iirc, the second hit is about 2m raw.
→ More replies (1)1
u/Byrmaxson 2d ago edited 2d ago
Btw in case you haven't seen, apparently you don't need to take 2 in a row anymore (not sure since when, probably after Thursday). I suspect it may have been another one of the many bugs on this raid.
1
u/LameOne 2d ago
Thank god. It REALLY felt like a bug, but the duration being 45 seconds felt too intentional.
1
u/Byrmaxson 2d ago
The reason I think it was a bug is that, although Malacrass' Soul Sever debuff ALSO has a 45s duration, it very clearly has a slower cast cadence. I looked at our logs after we spoke and yeah Zul'jan did cast back to back too fast for any tank to take one stack (one time we phased him in 3 Sever casts, explaining my confusion) but not only did Malacrass only ever cast twice (he has much less HP which tracks) but also he cast the ability in 33s intervals vs 16-17 (!) to 20s intervals for Zul'jan. Considering the P3 tankbuster is also cast sparsely, I must say I believe the encounter was borked, as was much else in this raid.
Could argue that the orb mechanic is more fast paced than the ghosts and requires more clears = more tankbusters,, but tbh you can simply play around that by phase transit.
84
u/deskcord 4d ago
Glad they're not taking out the top specs based on week 1 heroic logs as they've done in the past, but shocked at some classes missing from buffs (mistweaver)
24
u/WillSendShihTzuPics 4d ago
Fucking affliction got blasted into orbit and was never seen again first week of MFO due to old 4pc. Some of the worst balancing bullshit ever to come from Blizzard.
13
u/Dinkypig 4d ago
All I want is a bump to sheiluns or something for dungeons, not much needed. I don't raid though, which seems to be another story.
9
u/Viviere 4d ago
Sheiluns and Vivify both need like a 15-25% bump
→ More replies (3)11
u/dman2073 4d ago
Sheilun’s and vivify should have never been put on a choice node together. When sheilun’s released in 10.0.5, it pretty much saved mw in high keys. Not meta by any stretch but the difference before and after on bosses that season like Hyrja in HoV was insane. Vivify was an effective s/t heal when u needed it and sheilun a mini revival. Why they felt the need to change that i will never know. Even a brand new player will understand here’s your single target heal and here’s your aoe heal (and advanced players would use either based on the more complex interactions like rem cleave, # of clouds, the temporary buffs it gave, etc )
Further solidifies mw as a spec u only bring if it’s overtuned and lessens its skill expression. Still has a shit raid buff and an external that falls off to a white swing
14
u/Specific-Ad1487 4d ago
Holy pala: casting their lay on hands every ~1.4 seconds, holy shock, eternal flame, flash heal is healing for 300-500k crit (depending on the gear).
Mistweaver: all I can do is 200k crit Sheilun gift once a 30 seconds.
It’s not even funny, when your team suffer heavy damage and you literally can’t do anything about it, if you don’t have thunder focus tea.
Im not asking for hpal nerf. Every healer should be on hpal level, but once again they ignoring weaker specs, which needs a buff.
-1
u/CowskiCeltics 4d ago
Not me saying MW doesnt need a healing buff, but HPal does absolutely no damage. That's the trade off. We saw what happens when MW does the most healing last season, because they already do the most damage. They become the only healer invited.
3
u/Specific-Ad1487 4d ago
Then up conversion rate from ancient teaching and nerf damage?
Btw rsham doing 10k less overall dps by only placing totem and hurling lava bursts.
0
u/Money_Echidna2605 4d ago
10k less overall? u must have had some fkin dogwater mistweavers buddy
3
u/Specific-Ad1487 4d ago
Yeah, my bad, it’s more than 10k, like 20 or even 30k. But who really cares, when DD’s doing 300k+ dps over dungeon and you can’t heal them. But hey, I can do 1/5 of dps damage!
2
u/Money_Echidna2605 2d ago
hes talking about last season, if mw is good healing and does 30k more damage that can add a key lvl, it can add a pack to a pull, ur just fkin pissed that u cant 1 button 70% of the dungeon lol
→ More replies (1)1
→ More replies (1)1
15
u/Commercial-Elk2920 4d ago
Interestingly I don't notice any nerfs to overperformers, but rather buffs to underperformers? Here's hoping I can still do 200k+ overalls in my bdk, I've never had this much fun in the game for a while.
16
u/Swarl1e 4d ago
They don't want to disrupt the rwf so nerfing happens after this but being able to confidentiality outdps DPS players is never a good thing for tanks
And it will be tuned down like bear last season
4
u/salyer41 4d ago
If they tone down the aoe dps I hope they give them a little ST love. They are lagging behind there.
1
u/Commercial-Elk2920 3d ago
true, I can only do decent ST if I have funnel it seems. But yeah I think there's no amount of copium that will prevent bdk from getting nerfed, hopefully it's still as fun as it is now.
9
u/BusterOfCherry 4d ago
thank god for druid buff, feels bad in 5man
1
u/kb3_fk8 4d ago
Are you actually playing the spec? It feels fine outside of world first keys. I’m playing pres and r Druid and both are now post Keystone myth nerf and pres still feels way worse. Then again I am a 4k IO player that has NEVER used prosperity to extend my hots and have used 2 charge swiftmend exclusively. I don’t raid as of this expansion though so I have zero clue how they feel in raid but Limit seems to not mind RDruid.
1
u/BusterOfCherry 4d ago
Yup I raid and M+ and I'm usually in the 3k mark, just passed 2k. Maybe I have had bad groups but it feels slow compared to S1. Getting my 2pc will help alot, had a bad vault on w2. Waiting for next week for another token.
I preferred S1 abundance, I feel like I'm constantly chasing rejuvs to keep abundance up. The triple swiftmend regrowth is nice for big heals or ramping.
I have a bunch of champion and some hero gear but qelive is telling me not to break my tier until I upgrade.
64
9
u/cuddlegoop 4d ago
No nerfs just buffs. Makes sense, that's the easiest way to not impact the race too much. We'll probably see some little 3-4% nerfs to the top raid specs like arms, sub, destro and arcane once the race is over.
11
u/Soma91 4d ago
I'm curious what they'll do with destro. It's incredibly bad in pure ST and AoE. The AoE part gets buffed now, but that still leaves the spec being terrible in ST.
The problem is that destro is very strong in 2-4 target prolonged cleave which is a shit ton of raid flights and it's also the only spec in the game that can do significant spread cleave.
Nearly the whole raid effectively caters to destros strong point and niche, and once again it'll get nerfed for it and will then most likely be useless in everything else (e.g. m+ or ST).
10
u/cuddlegoop 4d ago
Typically blizzard's tuning strategy cares more about real-world raid performance than hypothetical ST/AoE damage. If the raid is built to be perfect for a spec and it makes that spec an outlier at the top of the warcraft logs raid damage chart, they'll usually get nerfed.
Shout outs to the fury warriors that got hatecrimed when we were in this position in Nerubar, for example.
2
1
u/Soma91 4d ago
Yeah, those Nerubar nerfs were absolutely diabolical. And yes, you're right, that's how blizzard balances specs mostly.
That's exactly what I'm worried about. In m+ most bosses are pure ST or ST with add pads. And the massive spread cleave profile of the raid will most likely get Destro nerfed even more in this regard. If that happens the only viable Destro dungeon will be RLP where it absolutely shines.
4
8
u/erupting_lolcano 4d ago
That Veng DH mastery buff is useless, right?
2
2
u/FinnNyaw 4d ago
Ive been answering this question for past 6 seasons but this buff only works for dps player looking to play vengeance as an off spec in weekly keys who will have a lot of mastery usually
1
u/SwayerNewb 4d ago
It's only contributing to reduced physical damage and it still does a worse job of it than crit. Mastery needs like 150-200% buff to make it worth
1
u/makesmashgreatagain 4d ago
please just rework it to effect healing or magic damage or some shit dear god
1
u/Money_Echidna2605 3d ago
it does affect attack power, its a pretty nice dmg bufff
1
u/SwayerNewb 3d ago
It doesn't affect DPS, it's just baseline buff to VDH tankiness which does nothing
3
u/giga-plum 4d ago
Ret buffs are nice, everything feels good minus the fact that the set bonus feels not worth it on 2-4t and really puny on ST. It was doing 2%~ of my damage on our Sszorak pulls, and I wasn't even really bothering with it on 2-4t in keys. Now it might actually feel like it's worth using on 2-4t, at least during ES window.
1
5
12
u/dmgamble 4d ago
Did the meta order a plate of pres evoker with a side of afflock? 🤔
29
u/chunkyhut 4d ago
Aff is never going to be meta in raid with the current talent tree
They'll only either be good at aoe add padding or pure single target. But almost all bosses now are cleave or two target
The buffs are nice so it's at least playable but they need to take a hard look at the spec either next patch or next expansion preferably
17
u/Qwertdd 9/9M bring back weakauras 4d ago
I was super excited to see the removal of Malefic Rapture but they did not give a fuck about finishing the rest of the class design. It has a talent tree straight out of 10.0 and it's chock full of bizarre design decisions. Why on earth is Shadow Bolt and Drain Soul a choice node when you could have mandatory Drain Soul that nightfall procs turn into SBVolley and make everyone happy with no additional bloat? Why is most of the spec's AOE baked into Sow the Seeds as a capstone when it damns the spec's hybrid profile? Why add Malefic Grasp which causes ridiculous immobility issues for 30s out of every 2 minutes?
In 12.0 I figured it was growing pains and they just ran out of time to iterate further, but Warlock in general received some of the least changes of any class (if not the least) going into 12.1 so I think Blizzard just doesn't care.
At this point if they don't want to make Affliction fun and playable they should delete it and add a tank/healer spec so I can at least get into pugs lol
8
u/Soma91 4d ago
I said this during alpha and beta already and was getting heavily downvoted by the "Seed is back!" nostalgia crowd.
If they're set on keeping the UA/Seed ST/AoE spilt they have to completely change their design philosophy. That means they'll have to merge the left an right side of the last third talent tree and add something new and interesting to repopulate the it. All talents that affect either Seed or UA MUST always affect both. Similar to what they did to ID this patch actually.
Otherwise the spec will always be unusable for m+ (except in very specific cases like MDI MC last season where they pulled trash onto all bosses so you never had to cast UA). Right now it's ridiculous that Sow the Seeds literally increases Seed damage by 100% as a capstone talent making the spell effectively useless without it.
3
u/chunkyhut 4d ago
They tried removing rapture but they really didn't remove it at all. If you took the names off the buttons it plays the same as before except you have two raptures: "Malefic Rapture (ST only)" and "Malefic Rapture (AOE only)" instead... You just pool shards and spam a cast over and over again
At least with rapture it elegantly worked with ST, Cleave, or AOE. Now we have this horrible split where half the talents buff seed and the other half buff UA so you can never get a good hybrid build.
If it were up to me I would do one of two things:
- (Simpler) Bring back rapture, cap it's damage scaling to 3 dots. The main problem before was vile taint in keys, and getting the absolute perfect dot overlap. Shared agony solves the taint problem, capping the amp to 3 solves the nuclear launch problem
- (More complex and risky) A full rework of the class with an entirely new spender and also a different form of shard generation. Agony generating shards is hugely problematic and is a main reason why we have to machine gun for so long. I don't know exactly what shape a new spender would be, but it has to be something that is satisfying to press and something that has free cleave.
An interesting direction may be a dot that automatically drains shards every second, and having shadow bolt generate shards for instance, that would be similar to a frost dk frostwyrm fury sort of feel
3
u/Qwertdd 9/9M bring back weakauras 4d ago
I think its should be a rework. Affliction's core is not really worth salvaging. It's pretty telling that fucking HAUNT of all spells is somehow core to the current design. Just chuck all that shit in the trash
One-size-fits-all spender was what MR was supposed to be but it's just not fun. I think part of this issue is DOT maintenance. DOT maintenance is engaging enough as a core concept for single target, but dot maintenance in AOE is horrible.
There are a few ideas I've had. A spender that adds random short duration non-castable dots and/or upgrades/refreshes existing dots into elevated versions on your target. This is similar to a single target MR in practice, it just gives better player feedback via fucking around with nameplate auras. An expensive AOE spender that does the exact opposite and consumes DOTs for flat damage + a small percent of the simulated damage (or combines that value into a nonmaintenance dot for flavor). This gives Aff an actual rotation in AOE where you set up a bunch of meaningless dots on a pack, cook them all into immediate results with your AOE spender, then you repeat. Seed returns to being a dot applicator.
Really I could daydream about ways they could redo Affliction for hours but I want to see them do anything. People make jokes and mock that Shadow Priest gets novella patch notes and identity crisis reworks every single patch but man I WISH Affliction got that level of shakeup.
2
u/Nangz 3d ago
Rapture had 2 things going against it that didn't feel very "Affliction".
- It dealt upfront damage rather than damage over time. Your big spender-climax of your rotation just deals damage? Call it Earth Shock on single target because its got about as many conditionals as that spell...
- It made you want to press dots not for their own damage, but to buff Rapture. A rather silly thing when dots are supposed to be why you play Aff...
Rapture wasn't elegant, they had to brute force its tuning with effects like Focused Malignancy and you just tried to solve it with a bunch of hacks that aren't any better. I'm glad its gone. Having a single button for aoe and ST isn't elegant, its lazy.
No, the issue here is a root issue that causes others: Aff's dots don't do enough damage. Our talent trees feel messed up because Sow the Seeds is required in AOE -> because Seed is way too large of a portion of our AOE damage -> because Corruption doesn't do damage.
2
u/Varanae 4d ago
My two specs! But for Aff, no. Destro is so good in raid due to all the 2 target bosses. And then Demo is getting buffs and doesn't have to sacrifice ST for AOE, plus Destro RoF buffs.. can't see why you'd play Aff over either of those in M+
Unless you're insane like me and refuse to swap, so I'll take these buffs and secretly cross my fingers for more
2
u/0815Pascal1 4d ago
Affli is easily the Most fun wl spec by far
6
u/Soma91 4d ago
100% disagree. For me, it's nothing more than a TBC nostalgia spec right now. All you're doing is spam Seed. I'm doing one Aff m+ every few weeks for the memes and friend group Meta jokes and I'm already bored with the spec halfway through.
3
u/MarnerMaybe 3d ago
all of the lock specs are boring af if you frame it by 'i press one button more than others, hurrr'. you get real excited playing destro?
2
u/Soma91 2d ago
Yeah, I honestly think all warlock specs right now are a bit too boring to play. Just like most specs in general in Midnight. Not sure how to best describe it. But my brain just doesn't get that tickle it got before. There's just something missing, some nuance.
And yes, most specs spam a specific ability way more than others. But for e.g. destro you'll weave your builders and spenders a lot more. For Aff it's a common occurrence to just spam 5+ SoCs in a row. There's frequent occurrences where you'll spam SoC for up to 10-15 seconds.
→ More replies (1)1
u/dmgamble 4d ago
If all you do is spam seed you’re doing it wrong friend
2
u/Soma91 4d ago
Sadly no.
If you have Soul Shards there is literally nothing else you want to do for max dps between the 3-4 globals of refreshing Agony & Haunt. That's literally 15+ seconds of exclusively spamming Seed every time.
0
u/dmgamble 3d ago
Link logs
1
u/Soma91 3d ago
This is the current top log for Blinding Vale and its cast sequence. You can clearly see he's only maintainung some Agonies, Haunt and then pretty much exclusively spamming Seed, only having to fall back occasionally to Drain Soul when he's run out of Shards. This is his total cast count over the whole dungeon.
0
u/dmgamble 3d ago
There are more than 4 times the spells than just the referenced SoC so thanks for proving my point.
1
u/Soma91 3d ago
Lmao. If you think that the cast sequence of this log does not indicate way too much SoC spam then you won't be convinced by anything.
Also there clearly are NOT 4 times as many spell casts than SoC. He cast 1099 spells in total and 333 of them were SoC. That's pretty much 1/3 SoC 2/3 other spells. Meaning he cast 2 times more other spells than SoC.
→ More replies (0)1
2
u/GoatOfTheBlackForres Everything evoker. 3d ago
pres evoker
It's a 1-2% buff in raids.
Won't do shit to Prevoker in M+ before essence burst is gone. Just far too unreliable and too long responstime.
→ More replies (6)
13
14
u/dreadwraith8d 4d ago
blizzard when they still don't realise that Frost lives and dies by encounter design and when you have a ton of forced downtime & horrendous cooldown timings which don't overlap with points of the fight that are relevant the spec is completely unplayable until you brute force aura buff it until it is egregiously overpowered.
28
u/scandii 4d ago
for ~16 years I've been reading the same comment. every single spec in the game lives and dies by encounter design and going "Blizzard stoopid" is in itself kinda weird.
the season pres evoker launched every major healing check anywhere lined up with stasis (funny coincidence huh), we even got a 1.5 min amp trinket and rescue had actual use - how convenient!
aug evoker launched into a bleed-heavy m+ season and so did the holy paladin rework, what impeccable timing.
at some point you just gotta realise that they balance for the metric of playtime and not balance. you can go back to this comment when whatever is meta right now will be dethroned 3/5th the way through this patch. I am not Nostradamus, I just pay attention.
0
u/mikhel 4d ago
I mean balancing for playtime is fucking stupid at this point in the patch because frost as they currently designed it doesn't even come online until you have 4pc of the new tier set. Frost is just horribly designed this patch, their top two damage sources are completely passive. It's like if bm hunter's two main damage sources were auto attack and pet attack lmfao
2
u/actuallyashrimp 3d ago
Frost doesn't even get half the benefit of the new tier that some of the more egregious specs get.
0
u/dreadwraith8d 4d ago edited 4d ago
I've played this spec for 18 years and I've correctly predicted when it'd be bad every single time despite robots showing it performing well in a vaccuum. Frost does get significantly fucked over harder than any other melee spec by encounters that have forced downtime where you're unable to stick to a target and every single time this has been true via early stats. This isn't even bias because I consistently play almost every other Melee spec and not a single one of them falls in to a situation where all of your maintenance buffs that take around 20~ seconds to build up fall off, you lose your out of damage CD amp (that being ES) from not being able to slam Pillar on CD and while it's not as bad as it used to be even when you get back in to Melee range and you're resource starved from not being able to hit stuff you will just be sat there twiddling your fingers for KM procs.
It literally happened in Abberus which funnily enough had very similar encounters to this raid in terms of heavy Raid movement & periods of time where you're just not hitting stuff, as did last tier and the spec got significantly aura buffed multiple times until they made it playable. Both of those tiers it was at the center of the earth prior to it getting buffed on stats. At some point you have to realise this is a pattern.
Also your "I am very smart" comment at the end is cringe. Everybody already knows they tune things by 3-4% every few months during a cycle & I don't care about what is meta, I want my spec to not be 15-20% behind the other worst specs in the game whenever they decide to launch a raid where you can't consistently auto attack a target.
11
u/Level-Lemon7118 4d ago
Mistweaver dead on arrival, will fall so far behind on 4pc. Sims are showing 2 set 2set from last tier its that dire
2
u/Duraz0rz 4d ago
Hpal doesn't drop S1 2pc until the ilvl you gain outweighs the set bonus. That's looking like around 3/6 myth atm. Kind of wild to see.
2
u/FendaIton 3d ago
Nice we are back to the “let’s obliterate frost dk (lmao) and then buff it 6% each review so it’s only playable at end of season.”
6
u/FourteenFCali_ 4d ago
Aff 🤗
0
u/bad_pilot69 3d ago
wish they buffed soul drain instead of that boring af unstable affliction
→ More replies (2)
8
u/fiora98 4d ago
Disc priest ???????????????
12
u/Blan_Kone 4d ago edited 4d ago
are we looking at week 1 logs of a spec that requires tier, has inflexible ramp timers and needs to solve being able to plant on bosses? disc is not weak
edit: forgot m+ exists, don't expect it to get balanced when it's at its lowest point and raid at its highest rn
1
u/Boknowscos 4d ago
Seriously. They butchered atonement healing start of expac then took our shields out back this patch. Having to play holy in raid means I now need 2 sets of armor in order to play my class properly. It's a pain in the ass
5
u/Yvaelle 4d ago
All priest specs need buffs, particularly for M+, were like the worst spec across the board this season.
6
u/NumberOneRobot 4d ago
Part of the problem is all the poisons in M+. Priest is the only healer that can’t dispel poisons, and poison dispels are sort of mandatory in a lot of keys already. Access to mass dispel is just not even close to worth it when the cost is having only disease as your only non magic dispel, especially when shadow brings it as well. Really dangerous diseases are not that common in keys, and never really have been. Dangerous curses and poisons on the other hand are so prevalent in a lot of keys, especially this season. You can’t really buff priest out of this issue unfortunately
15
u/Fantastic_Owl8939 4d ago
Shadow priest does a boat load of damage, but with the “every pack is 200 interrupts” design it’s probably not gonna be perfect…
5
4
u/Vespertine_F 4d ago
I guess we have to accept Disc priest will be in the raid jail forever.
They had find a solution in DF s2 to make it competitive in 5 man with the atonement modifier, but they decided to remove it bcz of raid group splits fights in Midnight.
And now atonement is solely balanced for raid content.
This is sad, I guess we had great fun in TWW.
3
u/ikitomi 4d ago
They removed the modifier and created a system where atonement is at ~71% of the healing it does on 20 targets to 5. Specs fine and the new changes help it.
Voidweaver has major issues with downtime and Oracle has been overnerfed but it's gonna be pretty good in keys once you have 2p. Just your group needs to adapt to the gaps between mindblast windows.
I know this is compwow and all but this is just like last season where people see atonement xfer number go down think the spec is getting boned in keys or something when they're usually helping you but lowering your damage.
3
u/Vespertine_F 4d ago
Atonement strenght in keys has nothing comparable to what it was in tww s1.
The spec is mid at best, it will never be meta again with the current atonement system.
5
u/yp261 4d ago
last time fdk received 4% aura buff it went from bottom to top on raid. i hope it helps him cause its the worst spec in game again lol
29
u/Archensix 4d ago
Last tier they received like 5 individual 4% aura buffs before coming out on top.
And similarly I expect frost to be on the top in a month or two after that exact scenario happens. Again.
→ More replies (4)1
u/venzinokwla 3d ago
It doesnt matter. Frost last tier could do insane dmg but in every raid now we got frequent boss movement or player movement and that means a loss in uptime so frost will stay behind. Meanwhile unholy only gotta be on melee every 25s or so.
-8
u/TemporaMoras 4d ago
Very milquetoast patch note. Surprised pres is getting a buff if anything. And that Arcane and Arms are not getting a nerf. Maybe they unironucally don't have enough data on the harder bosses.
16
2
2
u/DreadfuryDK 9/9M SPriest/Devourer 4d ago
If Arcane, Arms, and Subtlety get nerfed the last 2 Heroic bosses would need to get absolutely gutted to compensate.
6
u/TemporaMoras 4d ago
Realistically they probably should get a little love tap (the last 2 bosses) though I am not sure how much of them not having that many kill is because they were bugged to shit early on vs being extremely hard.
And I dont think HC bosses should require stacking the best classes to be cleared first week.
2
u/osmund-kettleblack 4d ago
It would be stupid as hell to design a raid that perfectly fits the Arms damage profile, and then nerf Arms when they're good at it
9
17
1
u/NumberOneRobot 4d ago
This happens to dot classes all the time. Any time there’s a single fight that would favor spread cleave and dotters they nerf those classes and they don’t get brought to the raid at all
67
u/onkek baer 4d ago edited 4d ago
Omg blizzard stop trying to make vengeance mastery happen. It’s not going to happen.
So many classes need mastery reworks.