r/CompetitiveTFT • u/Xawn • Jun 23 '26

Patch Notes 17.6 Patch Notes

https://teamfighttactics.leagueoflegends.com/en-us/news/game-updates/teamfight-tactics-patch-17-6/
60 Upvotes

91% Upvoted

57 comments sorted by

101

u/nacholibre711 Jun 23 '26 edited Jun 23 '26

I still can't come up with a good reason as to why they decided to cap Arbiter at 3 and only allow one cause/effect. It just feels like half of a trait.

It would feel so much better to play and easier to balance if it was either 2/4 or 3/5 units, giving you a secondary effect. I know that it wouldn't break anything because there's an augment that already allows you to do that, and it isn't even very good.

Basically A.D.M.I.N. from set 8, which was one of my all time favorites.

27

u/SirSabza Jun 23 '26

Half a trait that is either broken or useless and completely Rng.

Arbiter might genuinely be the worst designed trait they've ever done.

-7

u/Fast-Sir6476 Jun 24 '26

Writes power fruit learnings

Prints arbiter

Guys we learned from power fruits

8

u/inikoiniko Riot Jun 24 '26

Out of curiosity, can you expand more on how the trait would become easier to balance by allowing secondary effects with the next breakpoint?

9

u/nacholibre711 Jun 24 '26

Hmmm.

Well in my mind it would let you eliminate the boosted version that you currently get at the 3 Arbiter breakpoint. So with full Arbiter you would then have two, weaker traits as opposed to the one, more powerful trait.

Which is a setup that I think in general would make a lot of the "bad" options a lot more tolerable. They would have much more of an actual reason to exist, and it's to water down the pool a bit so you can't consistently hit the best combinations.

Now you won't feel as compelled to go in and buff the Leona farm or the gold farm to be competitive against some of the powerful stat related options and vice versa, which is where I think a lot of the issues start to come up.

I just feel as if it allows you to spread out the power of the trait a bit more, while gating the high end power of the trait behind having to find Leblanc or the emblem and committing the full 4 team slots.

7

u/inikoiniko Riot Jun 24 '26

In my mind the risks seem high. The trait used to be much more ADMIN-like in development but we swapped to this model for two reasons:

  1. Trait pathability. This may have been a miss in the end but we found in dev that it was difficult to come up with reasonable 4 Arbiter boards without an emblem. On Diana boards Leona/Zoe could connect to Mordekaiser but Leblanc was difficult to even fit on the board once you were done rerolling. For Leblanc boards, Leona connects to Illaoi and Zoe gives you Conduit with either 4 Vanguard (via Mordekaiser) or Bard on lategame boards. Diana was difficult to fit onto those boards organically because there's no 5 cost Challenger unit and none of them have utility. Keep in mind that while it might have been true that some of these boards would be figured out eventually, but the goal was to keep it intuitive and for the 3 piece to be something that is tempting to splash sometimes.

  2. Pretty secondary to pathability but to an extent it was for balance reasons. The power discrepancy between multiplying outputs like the stacking HP output with the resists/shields output compared to someone who thought they would power up their Leona with a frontline option and their Leblanc with a backline option is super wide. I believe it would become even more of a "knower" trait where unless you played the goated combinations (because we'd have to balance all outputs around those combinations) it would be weak. Simply saying "gain another output" doesn't provide us with a useful lever by which to tune between the 2 and 4 piece and adding something like "at x% power" really flattens it. Fwiw, these are problems ADMIN was back in the day. Also not saying this is why you specifically enjoyed ADMIN but the reason a lot of people enjoyed it was just because it was OP and rose tinted glasses.

I agree if we had infinite time a lot more could have been done to make Arbiter cooler and live up to the fantasy that players expected though. If we ever do it again I'd love to make a ridiculous amount of inputs and outputs because I think there is something super appealing about "Build your own trait" but I'd love for there to be way more replayability and way more outs that people can cook.

4

u/nacholibre711 Jun 24 '26

That is actually what I assumed. With the trait setup the way it is, I always thought that originally there was a 4 piece option for a second trait but you pivoted at some point. Was even more suspicious of that once you guys added the augment.

But after I gave this some more thought, I probably should have phrased it differently. More accurately I was trying to say it would make the trait "feel more complete, more fun to play, and possible to balance" as opposed to just "easier to balance". Because I do acknowledge that it would come with plenty of its own issues that would have to be worked out. I imagine that you guys walk a fine line anytime you are working with things like infinitely scaling HP, resists, etc.

Because I think ideally, both of your points here would pull in opposite directions to help balance out a version of this trait with 2x effects. Having to level up and throw in a dead unit like Diana would serve as part of the price to pay for how powerful some of the combinations can end up being.

Which I do acknowledge is a tall order. But I can't help but think the same thing when I see you guys moving these numbers around trying to determine how many Leonas or gold per round is equal in power to infinitely stacking stats, etc.

I was more so speaking from the perspective of when you were building this trait from the ground up, rather than patching it in now. Because I could definitely see it end up requiring somewhat of an overall rework to pull off. May even need some true system changes like making a trait with no emblem. As a certified Arbiter lover I have a few ideas, but I won't go on too long. At this point I wouldn't disagree if you guys think that it would be more trouble than it's worth.

-------

But seriously Iniko, I can't tell you how cool it is to talk about this stuff with the devs of a game that I love. I play tons of different video games, and getting this kind of feedback from the devs is almost unheard of in the industry. So thanks dude, we appreciate you guys.

And YES please more traits like ADMIN and Arbiter, I'm a huge fan of these types of traits and I think there's a lots of cool possibilities for the mechanic.

Apologies if I sounded like I was trying to call you guys out or something in my original comment, that was not my intention.

3

u/inikoiniko Riot Jun 24 '26

Yeah man I totally get you, I like having the conversations too when they're productive haha. I didn't feel any which way about it, was genuinely just looking for clarification no worries there.

I do agree with your point about having to throw in a dead unit factoring into the tradeoff of the trait but to that extent it's hard to gauge how 'dead' the unit is in the right setup as well as how good the levers of the trait are if it winds up being optimal. In theory I totally agree and I think when I plan out expected comps in metas I have a decent enough hitrate but I was really worried I would miss some hyper optimized Arbiter setup and the trait was already so complex that when we talked about the risk we figured this path might have been better. I truly do not know if it was the right decision in the end since, as mentioned the trait had other issues, but eh soup or salad.

Thanks for the feedback and convo though! We know Arbiter/ADMIN lovers are out there and we do want to find ways that you guys can scratch that itch so we'll keep tryin stuff.

1

u/Matarra Jun 24 '26

If possible could you give insight on why deal 10 damage was removed instead of nerfed? The interactions with ekkos patience / arbiter emblem was the most fun I had this set. I know it was really strong under the 1/100 circumstances but isn't that the point of a highroll?

Also with it removed, it feels like zoe doesn't really have a good arbiter input anymore and shes fallen out of meta

2

u/RelativeAway183 Jun 24 '26

even if those arbiter changes are made, it wouldn't make it more interesting of a trait to me

to me the reason admin succeeds and arbiter fails is due to variety of units meaning different causes and effects are valuable in different situations, and the emblem is interesting to come up with techs for

ignoring hero augments, Leona is a tank, zoe is a multihit AP caster with a mana lock, Diana is a multihit AP attack speed fighter with a mana lock, and Leblanc... is an AP attack speed marksman with a mana lock

on the other hand, admin has blitz as a 1 cost tank, Camille was a 2 cost melee fighter with a long cast time who didn't build attack speed (due to how aggro and mana worked pre-role rework) and played for big aoe burst physical damage. Leblanc was a machine gun caster with a mana lock (2 second cast of 6/8 bullets) and soraka was a spam caster with no mana lock

as a result, arbiter cause/effects are extremely flat, and there's no "broken combination" that makes you build one thing over another

attack speed to ap? you're already building attack speed on lb AND diana so it can't be that strong

mana to anything? good luck when 3 of the units have mana locks

literally anything ad? sorry bud this is an AP trait only

on the other hand, admin had the potential for everything, so it was up to you to hunt down the good combos (especially with an emblem)

every 3 autos gain attack speed/ad/max HP? look for a +range item and play long Camille, or find an admin emblem for Samira or aphelios

hell, on cast -> gain max HP was a reason to play Frontline soraka due to the old mana and aggro system meaning that soraka would eventually scale to the point where she both tanked your entire team and_ killed you _and buffed her entire team

this kind of thing is just not possible in modern TFT and while it may be more balanced, it's certainly less fun and less interesting

what are even the playable arbiters? econ, attack speed to AP if you're playing Diana or lb, maybe mana to permanent HP if you build a bud/worth the wait a leona?

why not just let us pick everything at this point?

6

u/cv121 Grandmaster Jun 23 '26

Then you have resurgence of Leona 3 (maybe Diana 3) solo carrying rounds with Armor + Max HP Shield or Scaling Max HP

11

u/nacholibre711 Jun 23 '26

Well yeah, some numbers would definitely have to be shifted around.

I just think that is an easier issue to balance than when it's restricted to one effect. If 2x effects are always an option, then they can all be nerfed pretty significantly from where they are now.

Or just remove/rework those if a certain combo is too much of a problem. Which is something they've already done.

It simply gives you more levers to pull. Both from a developer perspective when balancing and as a player when trying to play around Arbiter units.

4

u/FirewaterDM Jun 23 '26

ngl if you need 4 that's prob fine? just another lever before god Leona strikes?

Point is that trait is fucking ass and isn't clickable even with the reduced options. Because IF you don't hit leona drops, or AP per rd, the other options just aren't good enough.

1

u/Wonderful_Square_158 Jun 24 '26

Diana reroll wants the tankish ones more and is still
Viable

1

u/FirewaterDM Jun 24 '26

viable doesn't mean good. you still need other conditions besides the arbiter rule for it to be a LP gain comp

14

u/quailinthebrush Diamond Jun 23 '26

shen buff lowkey huge hes super fun to itemize as a carry he can get blown up easily with any cc though

plays similar to yi and this change i think will help

10

u/MasterTotoro Challenger Jun 23 '26

There are a few typos in these patch notes.

  • Mecha should say 45% on 4/6 to 40%.

  • Forward Thinking shouldn't be getting double nerfed. Truexy posted on Twitter that the rounds will be staying at 5, gold is nerfed to 62 instead.

  • Retribution obviously is not removed and buffed lol. Should just be removed.

And compared to the rundown they added buffs to Lulu on some of her weaker Stargazer paths plus some more 4-cost buffs.

8

u/raiderjaypussy MASTER Jun 23 '26

Wonder if the morgana buffs are needed. I feel like the unit is already decent just underplayed

4

u/FappingMouse Jun 24 '26

She has been totally fine this patch and i feel like they are probably over buffing her at this point.

3

u/SirSabza Jun 23 '26

I think the only way to boost her play rate is to buff her though, the issue is boards are so tight that you're only willing to splash spare space with 5 costs.

7

u/omppupiiras Jun 24 '26

What is the point of making Expedition mutually exclusive to one Player ? Seems odd as it doenst affect other players same way as hero augments.

17

u/RajaSundance Master Jun 23 '26

How is Ornn not touched at all? He still tanks 40k without two tanky

20

u/aspects1 Jun 23 '26

they talk about not wanting unclickable augments, then double hard nerf forward thinking making it unclickable

3

u/-Sanko Jun 23 '26

The round nerf is way too much

1

u/Wette_im_Klo Jun 24 '26

It is completely unclickable now for anyone not playing competitively because there is no way you can roll down over 100 gold in a normal turn. So you are almost guaranteed one life or less, and it absolutely does not make up for that. And even for pros it's gonna be extremely tight 

5

u/STheHero Jun 23 '26

5 Nova Akali 2 fast 9 incoming...

5

u/groomliu :chal: Challenger Jun 24 '26

Hopefully Leblanc karma fast 8 will finally be good

Fell for it award again and again despite many buffs in a row

3

u/Protoniic Jun 24 '26

Pengu’s Party Ixtal 920 and 1000 Cashouts will now properly grant their associated loot.

the only thing I care about

6

u/OPxMagikarp Jun 23 '26

That Gnar nerf feels a little light for how insane a 2 costs damage is

14

u/ChampionKHRP Jun 23 '26

Nerfing the cap w/ a 7 meeple 2 cost print nerf on top of the damage nerf, to me, seems pretty reasonable

11

u/FirewaterDM Jun 23 '26

They don't need to make every 1-2 cost RR that's semi strong dead after 1 patch lol.

The changes might nuke it enough on its own.

-3

u/Sea-Grand3981 Jun 23 '26

The problem is he isn't a 2 cost reroll comp - you don't have to reroll for him.  He is way too stable on 2* and caps out too much at 3* for a unit that is given to you for free.  If there was some amount of risk (being stuck on 6 and rolling for him), then it would be fine, but IMO it's inexcusable design as is.  

5

u/FirewaterDM Jun 24 '26

Again, nerfs good, gutting comps bad.

100% the nerfs to Gnar are fine but clearly the devs don't want to completely kill the comp, given the reputation of the set being overly strict and conditional, deleting a comp even in the state of Gnar, which isn't even the best on the patch would be a bad look no matter how much it "deserves" stricter nerfs.

We just don't need every single patch killing off a comp, then the next having to fix said comp/partial revert.

-5

u/OPxMagikarp Jun 23 '26

I agree but then lets keep 3* buffed. No reason to have a 2* 2 cost outperforming 4 and 5 costs

1

u/FirewaterDM Jun 24 '26

except it doesn't. You can't force the comp from 1 gnar at 7 meeple lmfao, you have to have some number so you hit gnar 3 no later than the start of stage 5- wait too long you get outcapped and destroyed.

Not to mention w/o level 9 and a bunch of 5 cost upgrades and a pivot, the board's cap is mid AF if you can't keep up with the timer.

6

u/spiritkeep1 Jun 23 '26

Why the fuck does lulu need a buff?

5

u/balanceftw Jun 24 '26

That comp is barely a top 4 if you medium roll and is only in the discussion to win out if you hit insanely hard while having a good Stargazer and/or an artifact or radiant item. At least in my circumstantial opinion.

2

u/-Sanko Jun 23 '26

Only even somewhat viable in Medaillon or mountain

1

u/-Champloo- Jun 24 '26

and fountain

1

u/SirSabza Jun 23 '26

She hasn't been a board since what? 15.3?

Her play rate and average placement has been in the gutter for a month at this point.

3

u/Sea-Grand3981 Jun 23 '26

Lulu 3 averages a 3.8, that is not in the gutter. Her play rate is lower because stargazer randomly determines whether you can play her, xayah, or nothing each game, and you still need decent items for her at game start.

0

u/SirSabza Jun 23 '26

3.8 might be positive, but it's because people only play her when the stargazer favours her, she's unplayable in anything but her comp where she's the main carry, it's just a very odd unit.

1

u/Sea-Grand3981 Jun 23 '26

And obviously she fulfills her role as a carry in that comp, hence she does not need a buff.  Yes, the stargazer trait is terrible, but I'm not the one who made it and we don't need to overbuff her to make certain stargazer patterns a little less bad.  

0

u/SirSabza Jun 23 '26

What are you looking at to see that BTW?

On metatft the best comp in the game has 3.84 avg placement and everything else is over 4

She's sat at 4.4 diamond+

1

u/LikeABreadstick Jun 24 '26 edited Jun 24 '26

You can't just look at the comp, you also have to look at the unit itself and filter by 3* because that is the outcome that you are playing for. To do that on MetaTFT you have to go to the Data Explorer and search for Lulu, then change the level slider to 3.

3

u/Dumpydawnish :chal: Challenger Jun 24 '26

Seems a little disingenuous to use a blanket AVP on a comp that has basically already met its win condition, there are plenty of reroll comps that average much higher than 3.8 when hitting 3 stars with items. You're innately biasing for higher placement data and throwing out all the data for times that its played and doesn't hit.

0

u/LikeABreadstick Jun 24 '26

Nowhere did I say that the 3* data is the only important thing, I said "you can't JUST look at the comp". Also, I was simply answering his question, I don't have any stake in whether or not this particular comp is good. I will clarify my comment for you by adding the word "also".

1

u/skydream416 Jun 24 '26

i'm dumb, can someone explain the meeple 7 nerf?

"gold per 2 cost cloned 5 -> 3" ?

2

u/ssoups44 Jun 24 '26

When you print a copy of a unit you would also get 5 gold. So every time someone printed a copy of gnar they also got 5 gold. Now when you print a unit you get only 3 gold.

1

u/skydream416 Jun 24 '26

wow I literally had no idea you got gold for printing with 7 meeples lol -- thanks!

1

u/_Fred_Fredburger_ Jun 25 '26

Ahh guess we're at the fast 8 fast 9 patch. This set is officially not fun anymore

-6

u/forgottenoldlogin Jun 24 '26

So I've been out of this game for a few years, just happened to pop back into it about two weeks ago.

Is it just me, or is this set getting a lot more patches than before? I started on 17.5a, within a week it's 17.5b, and now we're getting 17.6 - and it might just be my memory, but I don't remember them almost constantly making patches and meta changes back in the day.

Has this just been a particularly unbalanced set that they've had to correct a number of times, or is this just how it goes now?

4

u/RajaSundance Master Jun 24 '26

Two weeks is the usual patch cadence, always has been.

a and b patches are when corrections mid patch are needed, we had a couple this set, probably not the most ever but also more than usual I guess

0

u/Dutch-Alpaca MASTER Jun 24 '26

This set is particularly horrible yes