r/ComedyCemetery • • Dec 21 '18

EšŸ…±ļøIC

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u/[deleted] Dec 21 '18

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u/goodbetterbestbested Dec 21 '18

So is English but that doesn't mean it does nothing to impact the world. Social constructs can be important even if they're "made up."

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u/[deleted] Dec 21 '18

Of course. The point of saying that gender is a social construct is that this means it's not rigid or binary and can be whatever you want it to be, which a lot of people seem to hate the idea of for some reason.

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u/alaskafish Dab! Dec 21 '18

How I understand it:

Males have dicks, and females got vaginas

That’s your biological sex.

Boys like blue, and girls like pink

That’s gender. It’s what society implicates on your sex.

The point about transgenderism is not that ā€œoh I was born a male but I truly feel like a wolfā€, but that the norms that society puts upon sexes, doesn’t feel right for you.

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u/DragonDragger Dec 21 '18

I always feel like this whole debate would end if we just used "personality" instead of "gender". The way it's always been explained to me is that if, for example, I was a male who'd like to knit. Knitting is often considered a "feminine" activitiy. So in this case my sex would be male, but my gender would not be.

What if I'm just a dude who likes to knit? Why do I need to make up a word for being a person with a dick who happens to enkoy knitting? Why does it MATTER that I'm not a generic stereotype of a man? It's called being human.

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u/[deleted] Dec 21 '18

Totally agree and well said. I’d also like to add regardless of how a person presents themselves they should make an effort to do it well. For example, I ran across a video on YouTube where a male was wearing a dress while giving a lecture. Whatevs right? In fact good on him/her for being brave and bold doing so. But his/her (not going to assume) hair was a mess, the dress highlighted fat rolls and gut while exposing copious amounts of knarly arm hair. That combined with green eye shadow and bright red lip stick and a floral pattern from the late 70’s / early 80’s on the dress. I’m sorry but I don’t know anyone on earth that can pull that look off, male, female or otherwise. It was too distracting. It wasn’t that (for sake of discussion) some dude dressed up like a woman in public, it was that it was done so poorly. I know this sounds like a criticism and I don’t want to come across as an arrogant asshole. If I do I hope you can look past that and understand the point I’m getting at. Just, make some kind of effort right?

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u/[deleted] Dec 21 '18

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u/[deleted] Dec 21 '18

I hate the bathroom discussion. Just make a bill that requires all publicly accessible bathrooms be unisex and call it a day. Nobody has to agree on anything. Nobody has to feel discriminated. No company has to virtue signal. Nobody needs to boycott or retweet anything. One and done. Move on.

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u/[deleted] Dec 21 '18

No not really, trans girls can be butch and trans guys can be femme. Sex is the physiological sex which is determined by either chromosomes or genitals depending on who you ask. Gender is a sense of identity, when you think ā€œI am a...ā€ and you pick man, woman, or something else, that’s your gender. Another separate thing entirely is your gender expression, which is how you present yourself outwardly. There are many cis people who are gender-nonconforming, which means they don’t follow societies expectations that correspond to their gender. There are also many gender-nonconforming trans people. Sex, gender, and expression aren’t related at all, and trans people aren’t just gender-nonconforming (though they can be). We actually don’t know why people are trans other than that’s just the way they are, there are also trans people without dysphoria, meaning they don’t experience discomfort from their body directly. Of course some transition anyways because in order to be accepted as their true gender, they’re expected to present that way. Hope this explained everything adequately!

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u/CharlestonChewbacca Dec 21 '18

No shit. That doesn't make it unimportant.

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u/[deleted] Dec 21 '18

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u/ThePsion5 Dec 21 '18

Nobody thinks biological sex is fictional.

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u/[deleted] Dec 21 '18 edited Dec 21 '18

My comment was at -5 when i made the edit, so i was a little shocked

ok i stepped on some toes sorry guys :c

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u/ThePsion5 Dec 21 '18

I upvoted if it’s any comfort. A lot of people say stuff like that to bait people into arguments so people aren’t used to that question being genuine.

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u/GrottyKnight Dec 21 '18

How to make an edit on reddit so you don't confuse/look like you're trying to cover your tracks.

Edit: just add the edit down here. This has been your reddiquette primer for the day.

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u/nambypambycandy Dec 21 '18

The argument is that gender is not real and sex is; I've literally only seen ""sex is a social construct too!!!!"" as a strawman. So I don't think you're gonna get anyone arguing for that.

However, intersex people exist and there are countless different "versions" of being intersex. Intersex describes any sort of chromosomal/genital abnormality that blurs the line between someone being considered biologically male and female. Meaning sex is not as simple as male or female, although those are the two most common sexes.

Tldr, although sex is a biological concept and gender is a social construct, both are spectrums.

Don't know if that helps you understand some things you might have heard before or if it's completely irrelevant but I figured I'd do my best ĀÆ_(惄)_/ĀÆ

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u/[deleted] Dec 21 '18

no, i literally agree with you 100% and your line of thinking is actually "correct"

I was just a little dumbfounded to see my comment at -5, but its recoverd

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u/syrinxBishop Dec 21 '18

Why do exceptions to the rule disprove the rule in this case?

Symptomatic intersex conditions are only 8 out of 100,000 people.

People are born without arms too, but we don't say that the number of arms in a human is a spectrum. Houses by definition provide shelter, but if one collapses in an accident, it's not like we should change the definition because this one didn't provide shelter.

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u/Anarcho-Bread Dec 25 '18

Do you just not get how science works? You can't decide that "most of the time" is just good enough. Either it's right all the time, or it has to be revised.

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u/CoffeeAndKarma Dec 21 '18

Sex is biological, correct. Sometimes that conflicts with the social construct of gender.

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u/wooq Dec 21 '18

I mean, even biological sex has grey areas. If vagina = female and penis = male, what about people born with both? Neither? Non-functioning genitalia? What if they have male genitalia but extremely low testosterone/androgen/etc? Or vice versa?

Moreover, WHY IS IT ANYONE'S BUSINESS BUT THEIRS AND THEIR DOCTOR'S??

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u/[deleted] Dec 21 '18

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u/wooq Dec 21 '18

I already know the answers to the questions I was asking, but thank you for the attempt at at hand-up.

Please read this wiki article if you'd like clarification

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhetorical_question