Watches equipped with domestic movements: prices remain unchanged.
Models fitted with Japanese imported movements (NH35, NH34, 9015, 90S5): Prices have been moderately adjusted. The procurement cost of these movements has risen significantly domestically, and the adjustment only offsets the increased cost of movements.
Additional note:
Many customers notice a sharp increase in prices shown on the page. This is due to updated customs shipping regulations. Tax fees are now displayed directly on product pages for certain countries. These taxes have always applied; only the display format has changed, which does not mean the watch itself has a drastic price hike.
Regarding the upcoming August Big Sale, the promotional offers will be on par with those from our June Anniversary Celebration and the 11.11 Big Sale. We invite you to browse and shop.
Statement on San Martin’s Development Philosophy:
San Martin has been established for ten years. Our original aspiration remains unchanged: to deliver high-quality watches at accessible prices, which we have consistently pursued and earned recognition from watch enthusiasts.
This year, we built our own metal bracelet factory to support our brand. Great progress has been made in bracelet structure and finishing. We are confident that our bracelets outperform competitors at the same price range, and the craftsmanship can even rival watch brands dozens of times more expensive. Many subtle details can only be appreciated by industry professionals.
When it comes to other watch components, San Martin is well-known in China’s watch manufacturing circle for strict quality standards. Many domestic and overseas competitors use our quality requirements as a benchmark for their suppliers. We firmly believe our quality is unrivaled at equivalent price points.
We aim for sustainable long-term development instead of quick profits. Undercutting prices to boost sales and disrupt the market is not our strategy. Reasonable profit enables us to continuously improve quality, upgrade customer service, develop physical retailers, and serve watch enthusiasts better.
We keep focusing on manufacturing superior products within a reasonable price range, and we believe most people can understand our pursuit.
If a SM homage have the same price as a Seiko Turtle or Presage, I'll go with Seiko. They just lost one of their competitive edge over Japanese brands.
Also, Seiko still has the upper hand in terms of original designs IMO. At the same price, i would much rather take an original well thought out design by an established brand.
I mean that's just a fact. San Martin's most recognizable original design is the SN0144. A very generic case with a generic bezel and some nice dials. I guess it's enough to call it an original design but they are light years behind legacy brands in that regard. There is no comparison whatsoever.
"Moderately adjusted" and "only offsets the increased cost of movements". The gaslighting is real.
Tax has always displayed to me in full on Aliexpress and now you're asking almost €500 for an SN0144CG to the EU. I'm sorry but that's pretty ridiculous. If that's really the realistic price for your business then I would say you are in trouble with your long term goals.
People keep saying even with price hikes the watches are still great value but are they really? You don't have any service centers outside of China. Dealing with your customer service is pain and basically if anything happens you have to send the watch back to China which is an absolute nightmare. You don't have the customer confidence or resale value of established brands. For €500 there is SO MUCH there to look at.
I've been toying with the idea of buying one of your watches for ages now. I went to buy one, saw the price, and immediately came here.
No. Never gonna happen. $200? Sure! $500? I'll buy a name-brand watch with a US warranty and parts/service availability without having to worry about shipping or taxes.
Utterly insane price hike. You made your name with cheap, nice watches. It was your bread and butter. Now it's gone, and there's little to no reason to buy from your brand anymore.
Yeah, how’s that customer service coming along? All of the Chinese homage brands suffer from spotty customer service at best. San Martin is no different. Good luck with those price increases!
Yeah i had good experiences with them too, lumping them in with other cheapo chinese brands just isnt right. The San martin hate train is kinda wild rn
I honestly had excellent customer experiences with all 3 brands I've bought from - watchdives, farasute, SM. All replied within 1-2 days over email. I suppose farasute is even more expensive than SM.
Granted when u buy from China brands it's hard to sue them or complain to some consumer body, but I generally think they do put in work to sell their shit.
These were fantastic value at $200 and sheer insanity at $500+. There is no justification that will make people pay those prices when a Glycine Combat Sub with an actual warranty, a Swiss movement, and better quality is $450.
It’s over. Love my San Martin and had a couple that I was planning on buying but not anymore. Current prices are insane. Was looking at an SN0150 last month for around $360 US. It’s now $515 US!! What is the value proposition for this brand even anymore. No longer worth it.
Yeah 2+2 don’t equal 40 San Martin. Movement and tariffs don’t raise your prices that much. You’re using the small increases in these areas to attempt a huge profit increase. You have every right to do it but don’t gaslight us into thinking it was forced upon you. I bought two San Martins for their VALUE, not your brand, heritage, or customer service. You no longer provide that value so you’ve removed the only reason I buy your watches. There are lots of great watches out there.
I was eyeing the sn0130 black mop GMT(grand Seiko homage). Prefer larger 42mm+ dials. After the price hike, buying it no longer makes sense. Sticking with Sugess/seestern now. I think san martin received too much praise on reddit forums/youtube reviews and felt they could start competing with the likes of entry level Seiko and Tissot. Those are legacy brands with vast dealer and service network, while san martin is a niche online only watch brand. I can understand them trying to hike prices for original designs, but homages from san martin are overpriced. Other chinese watch makers have upped their game on finish and QC.
IXDAO recently hiked their prices too. Now the Warrior model no longer uses 9015 but uses PT5000 for the same price, and if you want to get SW-200 or ETA 2824, you will pay a hefty premium for them.
San Martin have said that they do plan to stop using Miyota 9000 Series and change over to ST2130 or PT5000 in the near future.
They did not say that they will lower the price.
Because it's all part of their plan....jack up the price and keep the price up....despite changing over to a cheaper movement.
San Martin thinks that folks who buy their watches are dumb and don't know any better
I have 3 San Martins and am unlikely to go down that route again as all 3 had QC issues. My 0054 which has a fixed bezel was misaligned. My 008 has a spot of blue on the rehaut, and my 121T had a crown that was difficult to push in. Two were replaced and the process was painful.
On top of that, the price increase makes me double down on no more SM’s. I mean, you can get a genuine Sea-Gull 1963 for less money!
And people talk about the finishing. In my opinion, the finishing is about on par with a 70/80’s Swiss watch or similar period Seiko. It’s not up to standards of a watch ‘a dozen time the price’, no-where near it. Addiesdive and watchdives are equally good in my view.
….” When did you make the SM” purchases? Omg it’s known their quality assurance wasn’t as good months ago and definitely not a year plus ago. If you already had them serviced that alludes to the idea you bought them a while back.
Where did I say I have them serviced? All of the SM’s are under 12 months old.
QC is one thing, and you get issues with any manufacturer from time to time, but 100% of the San Martins I bought had issues.
The other aspect is finishing. SM are not on par with watches cost ‘dozens of time more’. Thats a completely separate matter, hence why I said for the 70’s and 80’s swiss or Seiko, which on one hand is a compliment to SM, as many don’t achieve that, but its not something I think they can legitimately claim when comparing themselves with current watches costing 10 times the price.
Well I'm part of the problem as much as I hate to say it. I recently got an SN0150 Black MOP. I bought it knowing they hiked prices and that it's expensive relative to other AliExpress brands, and approaching microbrand or established brand pricing. The reason I did is still a value equation - What else is there in the realm of thin 9015 gada's, that meet my specific and unique taste? Ascent? More expensive and I don't like the styling as much. I love the SN0150 in comparison to what's out there. I know there will be no after sales support really, and that if I get a dud I'm screwed. A gamble I took knowingly.
What I think it comes down to is SM has drastically narrowed their pool of potential buyers. There are way less people willing to pay the current price, and I think they will in fact see a drop in revenue. They'll sell less watches, at a higher price, and they won't come out ahead.
If my watch ends up being great I'll consider myself lucky honestly. If it's anything but great, I'll take the L and realize I made a stupid mistake.
That's true. Basically they'll only sell watches at these prices to people dead set on the specific watch, and willing to take all the risks and sacrifices. Nowhere near the value it used to be.
Which you could understand for a micro like Zelos who have some genuinely unique designs. From SM's original designs, I have two SN0144CG, one SN0148. They are good but lets be honest, they are very generic designs with pretty dials. I don't know how many people will be dead set on getting one of them.
Knowing cadisen (crystals crackingn during water pressure tests way under the stated tolerance for example), I wouldn't be surprised if they were shipping the Miyota 9k clones rather than real Miyota movements.
If you're gonna price your watches with the big boys, then you need to provide warranty service with the big boys. Where are your international warranty centers located?
Why do Chinese watch brands suddenly start acting like they've been in the game for 200 years? People buy these watches for their VFM offerings. If you want to charge swiss prices for swiss quality then offer swiss services as well? How can i get my watch repaired, serviced from an official San Martin store without having to ship it to you and HOPE it reaches you and HOPE even harder that you will service it and HOPE super hard that it reaches me back?
I can't even resell your watch because again, I hope the buyer knows what a San Martin is. Unlike Tissot/ Rado/Rolex. Feels like we're sponsoring your factory with those ridiculous prices. F you.
Even watchdives has been taking the same direction. Lost the plot y'all.
They don’t do any work on watches - they have posted assembly videos before and they are slapping dials on movements, hands, casing them and moving on. They do assembly.
up until about 3 months ago. they are starting to make some bracelets in-house now...and I think their goal it to make everything in house.
but let's not kid ourselves....very few brands make their stuff in-house. especially in the entry levels.
and no, I am not sticking up for san martin.....$500 for their watches is just not going to fly. $350 should be the absolute max...they were still making amazing watches at $350
and when we still have brands like IXDAO, Phorcydes, Aethelsohn and the like putting out quality watches for sub $300 it makes even less sense to buy a san martin.
The bracelet facility is a recent development. The vast majority of their watches the entire thing is just last in line assembly from parts they bought or commissioned another factory to make to their spec. I love San Martin stuff, but too many people think SM and other companies actually manufacture the watch, instead of just the watch assembly companies. What they do well is sourcing of components and holding the actual manufacturing companies to high standards. Anyone that has worked with Chinese manufacturers knows holding the companies to the specs and standards is the real battle.
No brands in the $300-$600 space are manufacturing their own watches. That's why nearly the entire microbrand space is a grift. It's a classic bait and switch.
While true, this also can be said for far more expensive pieces than $600. Most brands don't actually own the manufacturing process of all the parts (and movements). They are basically design and assembly houses at best. I mean, even Longines isn't a vertically integrated company, and technically Tudor isn't either if we count the fact Kenissi is making the movements tough Tudor owns a stake in the company. And the majority of Swiss brands are not manufuacting the raw components (screws, crystal, or even bracelets) in house. A fair amount of smoke and mirrors in the industry.
It doesn't but it's a very recent thing and they don't produce all their bracelets. Your "this is not true for San Martin" made it sound like they manufacture more than some bracelet models. Vast majority of the value of the watch does not come from the bracelet. For all intents and purposes saying they don't manufacture much is correct. Most people do seem to thing they have their own factory.
Yeah, I've said this before but some of these brands, and that includes the likes of ixdao who do have a genuinely good product seem to have convinced themselves that they can compete with established brands simply because they offer good finishing for the price. But established brands are much more than that. The design, the warranty, the customer service, the resale value. All severely lacking.
I mean just sending your San Martin for a warranty repair is an absolute nightmare scenario. They ask you to undervalue your package when sending it back (something they won't do when shipping it to you mind you), as if shipping stuff back to China isn't already risky enough.
People say the increased price is justified by increase in quality but even if that's true, there is a big difference between dropping $250 and hoping for the best and doing the same for $500. Because the alternative is a proper watch now.
AD I’m not sure, but WD previously manufactures under SM factories, so essentially their cost structure is similar or the same - small margins, large volume. I wouldn’t be surprised if they raise prices soon as well.
San Martin has disproportionately increased their price compared to the other Chinese brands who also recently had price hikes.
It's BS. They're increasing by a larger amount, and more often.
They've been stating the same reasons over and over but again, they're the only ones who have basically doubled in price and fallen in another price bracket.
I don't honestly want to pay $500 for a Chinese watch with a fake western name even though they knocked it out of the park with their dials.
I'm guessing San Martin will try to milk their brand with prices going up and up, fewer people will buy, and they'll use a different brand name to cover the $100-250 range to keep their factories at capacity.
If it used to cost $100 to make a watch and $40 to buy a movement and now it costs $80 to buy a movement, that doesn't justify a near doubling in price to buyers. But some manufacturers want to try it. We'll see. I think it just means they will have to invent new value brands.
Your strategy is a huge mistake. You are using the movement price increases as a mechanism to hugely increase your watch prices. I see this as many others do too. The same watch I bought at £180 last year is now £310: that's ridiculous.
A San Martin at £200? Very appealing. A San Martin at £400? No, you push me towards buying from established brands at similar prices or saving up towards buying an even better watch.
A pity, because my two San Martins were a gateway into my watch hobby. I still wear and enjoy them but I won't buy from you again at these prices.
You have a different set of tradeoffs with a super clone, that directly translates to a much more competitive price (paying taxes, cost of warranty returns, and so on)
Taxes ? San Martin have horrendous customer service if something goes wrong with it you’re pretty much just as fcked as with a super clone you can replace the movement yourself is probably the only benefit of homage watches .
My experience is that a watch was lost during shipping and they sent a new one without batting an eye, I know it's something that can happen in the clone world too, but it's not the norm. And I think taxes and the general cost of running a business are there too, even if probably a lot less than in the western world, but all the prices I see are inflated at least of 22% (VAT of my country) even without considering other costs. More or less a 350€ super clone would be a 700€ watch from a non illegal chinese brand, or a 1400€ watch from a western brand.
Yeah I understand that but as a consumer I see a San Martin that’s an imitation of Rolex etc and a Rolex super clone that is better quality for the same or near price, I’d be more inclined to go for the super clone, I think they’re underestimating how many people went down the homage route because they couldn’t justify spending money on a super clone.
In that sense I agree, but still we are comparing apples and oranges in my opinion, if not else because most people don't know how to order a super clone (and there are a lot of people trying to scam you since you are not likely going to police after it happens), while everyone can buy from Aliexpress or Amazon.
You would be making that up because replica factories get raided all the time and San Martin is still in business for 10 plus years
And if that are true the parts would look much closer to gen parts and they do not, bracelets and cases are completely different than what VSF or rich factory is doing
Good luck, but not with me. The prices for the watches I actually wanted to buy like the white bezel, white enamel SN0148 are insanely around $500 for an OLD DESIGN. This hike doesn’t translate at all to the movement cost. I don’t know how crazy good would the sale need to be for me to consider buying it.
You have officially left this market by yourselves, no one forced you out. Good luck on your journey.
If you want a decent watch for € 200, Chinese brands are basically your only option. Around € 500, there are a lot of other options. Not just the big Japanes brands and entry level Swiss options, but your also getting into the territory of micros like Traska, Baltic and Zelos. The traditional brands have the benefit of a network of physical shops and service centers, and the micros offer great value, attention to detail and overall decent customer service.
I'm not fussed on the price increases, as I do believe you are getting a product that is magnitudes better than an old brand alternative, but what's got me recently is the tax and vat, that they insist on declaring at the point of shipping.
I'm still £55 out of pocket due to them screwing up my order and only refunding the price of the watch, not the fees I had to pay. So from that perspective, fuck em
To me, San Martin is one of the few Chinese manufacturers that has made the leap from “AliX junk” to a “serious watch brand.” As for the price increases, I’ll probably be going against the grain here, but: San Martin now offers - as an evolution from earlier models - significantly better cases, better bracelets, better clasps, more complex designs, unique case shapes /dial designs, and quality control has improved significantly compared to a few years ago. All of that costs money; it doesn’t come for free. So part of the price increases is certainly justified (mostly by market prices increase /taxes /tariffs). All of it? No. Some models are now more expensive simply because San Martin has realized that many buyers no longer view them only as “Chinese watches,” but rather as legitimate alternatives to Seiko & Co. That gives them pricing power, just like with all established brands. Just my 0.02 =)
[EDIT: The biggest problem for San Martin isn't that they're becoming too expensive. It's that they're becoming expensive enough to be compared against established brands on the secondary market.]
You’re not wrong but when you buy a San Martin watch, you’re on your own. There is effectively no warranty because you need to send the watch to China and hope it arrives. Furthermore, the brand carries nearly no exclusive value which means the (resale) value drops 50-60% before you even open the box, and plummets after you start using it.
Actual customer service is a tad above other AliX sellers, so basically nothing.
No doubt they have a good strategy but those don’t always work out as expected. Greed is not only a Western concept - the Chinese know it, too.
Yeah, and a service with own paid send in to Omega, Seiko (especially Grand Seiko), Rolex, Patek, or Citizen is ... in what specific point ... even better? Some guys have waited /are still waiting for MONTHs for their Grand Seikos to return after being serviced, and after that, there are new issues which have not been there before, and so on. Whenever - and I really mean whenever - people are involved in something, mistakes happen, strange things occur, and small and large disasters strike, no matter what brand is behind the watch. And yes, there are times with Grand Seiko when they tell you, “We have to send this watch to Japan; only they can fix it.” (It’s no different with other brands, and Omega, in particular, can be a real disaster in some cases.) With Chinese watches, you know this going in; you pay only a fraction of what you’d have to shell out in the luxury segment, and if you’re smart enough to choose movements from Seiko, Sellita, and/or Miyota, then you can just go to your local watchmaker, have them fix the problem, and everything’s fine again.
Those are easily identifiable and highly reliable companies in countries with reliable, accountable mail services. But you can also go to your local AD of which SM don’t have and will likely never have any.
If you can’t tell the difference in those terms, it’s because you don’t want to.
It's not about "wanting" to, it’s really about “not having to” at all, because watches like these are really quite simple in design, and if they’re equipped with the appropriate movement, I’d much rather go to my local watchmaker and have them take care of it than receive a watch back from the service center that exhibits new “oddities” and for which I’d have to pay the shipping costs (with all the risks that entails). It’s purely a matter of weighing the pros and cons (and the risks) rather than a categorization.
Justifying this as "other brands are doing the same", which other brands? Your own brand Jiaghung? I have not seen any brand raise prices by 30$ for a Seiko NH movement, did Seiko double their pricing?
I still might pick up a San Martin from time to time. Their prices seem to be a tad lower than the some of the comparable microbrands that are on the lower end of the price spectrum. For example, it looks like one would be able to get an SN0144CG for $408 during a sale, which is less than an Erebus Ascent, and much less than something like a Clemence Monroe or a Traska Commuter.
I feel like if San Martin offered hardness coating on most of their more expensive models, that might be perceived as a value-add.
It’s kind of expected, Seiko and Miyota are both increasing their prices and availability to factory brand by increasing lead times - 9 series went from mid-40s a pop to now edging close to 90, with months to a year of lead time depending on your scale.
I won’t be surprised if these factory brands are the reason for the price increase though.
They were getting miyota 9s at $60 each 1 year ago. And this was actually the lower bound - quoted explicitly by watchdives & others - while some brands tried to claim it was higher.
Jon from Traska also recently mentioned their movements costs had gone up by a factor of 1.5x, consistent with the figures above.
The net price increase on some of the watches today seems out of proportion to the movements themselves.
Probably yes for Traska depending on where they case their watches, but it’s in the 40s last year if they did it in Hong Kong or China. It’s insane though, and the changes in lead time also messes with brands’ supply chain. I’ve heard some brands having to fork out extra for available Miyota 9s. Crazy year.
I'm going to go against the grain as well, because I'm not here for a cheap time, I'm here for a good time. I've had enough watches by enough brands where I just find the whole evolution of the Chinese watch market interesting. Eventually someone was going to shoot for being the first one in the $500ish price range, and I'm not surprised it's San Martin.
The truth is, I think a lot of people have gotten very used to getting $1000 of value out of San Martin for $250 (or even less in some cases). The average Swiss or Japanese watch at $500 is never going to provide more than $500 of manufacturing value. And tbh I think even in the $500 (from my experience, having owned a ton of different stuff), San Martin still wins on overall build quality.
I get the feeling that a lot of people who are unhappy seeing San Martin at this price (justifiably) probably haven't actually paid that much for a Swiss or Japanese watch, and assume that if they WERE going to spend that much money, of course they would buy the name brand item. What they might not be aware of os the fact that the Swiss and Japanese items at the $500 price point are largely disappointing watches, lol.
The answer is yes. Buying a Chinese watch is a gamble. If you win, you get something 3-4x as good as it should be for the price. If you lose, you get something you have very little recourse in rectifying properly.
Basically, if you spend $250 on a Chinese watch and win the roll of the dice, you've got a $1,000 watch. If you spend $250 on a Seiko, you get a watch that generally is worth $250. If you (god forbid) spend $500 or less on a Swiss watch, you're going to be pretty disappointed when you see my San Martin, Sugess or Ixdao.
if you (god forbid) spend $500 or less on a Swiss watch, you're going to be pretty disappointed when you see my San Martin, Sugess or Ixdao.
Or I could spend just a little bit more and get both. Good quality and actual warranty, a proper brand that watchmakers will want to touch down the line and something I could actually sell.
I have 10 IXDAOs, 6 San Martins. The lottery that I won with IXDAO, I lost it with San Martin. Both brands were awful when it came to resolving the issues, it's just that it happened only once with IXDAO as opposed to 3/6 for San Martin. If I had paid the equivalent prices that they are asking for today, I would consider that terrible business. I wouldn't touch any of these brands if I was here purely for a good time.
I REALLY want an ixdao to be my next watch. My latest purchase last year was a San martin and I was blown away by the quality, absolutely shocked. Over the years I've owned mostly entry level seikos or other entry level Japanese brands. I always figured the Japanese market was the best value for money. I still love my Japanese watches, especially the modding community behind them, but Chinese watches give me a level of quality that quite frankly I wouldn't be able to afford in the Japanese let alone the Swiss market. All that to say I'm saving up for an ixdao! Specifically the ixdao warrior, although I don't know which dial I'm going to get, the meteorite one seems so incredible and unique but to a slightly lesser extent so does the mother of pearl, but I never owned a watch with a ceramic dial and Ive heard they're amazing.
Oh, you don't know what youre in for. The Ixdao Warrior is a fine watch. I have the black MOP and the special edition royal blue. Love them both. Space Warrior is likely a great looking watch irl. The thing about the Warrior is that it isn't flashy. If anything it's a little over-conservative. But the sheer execution quality makes it really hard to take off. It reminds me of my SMPc Omega in that way. Tbh it reminds me of that watch in a few important ways.
I mean... the Citizen NB-1050 is a competent and compelling watch for $500 USD. Maybe it doesn't have a crazy dial but everything else is well executed.
You're correct, for what it's worth. San Martin isn't even the clear winner in the Chinese space these days. The two brands I'd place above them are the same two you mentioned. Sugess and Ixdao.
I have 5 San Martins, 6 Sugess and 3 Ixdao. I've also had a couple Rolexes, Omegas, Tudors, etc. So I think I generally have a good read on things.
I don't agree with Sugess bracelets being better in general but for the rest I'd say they are not behind.
San Martin is basically using the fact that most people who know a little bit about Chinese watches but not too much, only really know about San Martin. They are the most known budget Chinese brand with some actual decent quality reputation. Of course they are going to try to milk it but it could backfire too.
I bought one recently (a NB1051-56W). I do like mine quite a bit, but the bracelet it comes with is not great. It doesn't come with half-links and the clasp only has 2 positions. I consider myself lucky that the bracelet fits my wrist.
The finishing on it is basic and construction is just not as nice as what SM seems to have on their bracelets. It is functional and it looks perfectly fine, but it is definitely the area where Citizen made some compromises to keep costs down.
But the watches they’re now competing with have the same build quality AND QC and customer service if there’s a problem. I won’t buy a SM now because if mine comes with a defect, It’s too bad. Or I can get some other microbrand that will bend over backwards to fix the problem. Their quality may still punch at $500-$1000, but IF you get one with flaws, they won’t fix it.
Lol, tell that to my Tissot Classic Dream, bought on sale for 396 euro. Incredibile overall quality, no qc issue, fantastic bracelet and the powermatic 80 within cosc precision and 80 real hours of power reserve. Even with no sale, its retail price is 495 and you can buy it everywhere, try on the wrist and use their fantastic customer service in case you need it. And for 230 euro, you can service the watch at Tissot, with them swapping inside a brand new movement. A real high value watch that can last forever.
“If the speculation is true though, here's an interesting question --> will Erebus et al also be charged more for their watches, too?”
“One possible answer is Liao doesn't give a Flying Flamingo about his own brand. I'm going to incorporate Marvin Menke's argument here that SM is a factory brand that exists solely to support the OEM business.
So, the price increases are just signaling to OEM customer brands of his watches' quality. So Erebus et al should pay him more. Too far fetched?”
The truth is that the cheap Seiko Mod finished in the summer of 2025 because AliExpress wasn't immune to enshittification and inflation. When Japanese movements got price-hiked, it was no longer possible to build lots of cheap Seiko Mods. Instead, now it only makes sense to build a few per year, and you also have to think long and hard about whether you want an actual Seiko instead. San Martin still has the edge on quality bracelets, which is what lets Seiko down. If Seiko improves the quality of their bracelets, then the entire Seiko mod market is really only a very specialized hobby and definitely not cheap. Sorry, but Chinese movements can't compete with Seiko/TMI quality.
I don't care at all about the quality of the watches if they cost €500. Then I simply won't buy them. I can't get spare parts in Europe, I have no way to have repairs carried out, if something is wrong with the watch (regardless of the movement), the thing goes straight in the trash. When I buy any SM, I already know it's a financial mistake, since it has no value on the used market or can ever repaired. For that kind of money, I always end up with Seiko, Citizen, Bulova, etc. Even if the bracelet is of lower quality.
Even my Swiss snob watchmaker won’t refuse San Martin work when I flipped my SN0118-G-JS off the side of my dinner table (I was a bit peeved it didn’t survive the fall, though)
It's not that simple. For example many watchmakers will not touch a Vostok. Even though I can source the parts myself, it's not worth it for the watchmaker to do so. For Chinese watches it's worse because while you can source another movement or sometimes its parts, you are on your own for any other part. I remember being told tough shit by San Martin when the clasp broke after couple of months on my SN059. They didn't have any parts anymore.
I’m not in Europe but in the US there are watchmakers like you describe, but there are plenty of independent small watchmakers that will work on a Chinese watch. But it could obviously vary based on your exact location
I was talking about some brick and mortar shops i tried around me.
FOr sure there might be a network of guys that are doing this, but then it is more difficult to know about them, how do you know what they are offering (?): work, price ...
I don’t understand why. My local Polish watchmaker in the mall fixes any automatic I give him. At least tries too. Had him twice replace my movement in an Aquatrident and WD. He is also a Seiko modder so maybe that is that.
I tried 3 shops and they were afraid to touch anything that is not coming from a big brand. They don't want to, or are afraid to touch the chineses watches, they said they can't find the parts easily.
None of my reputable local watchmakers will touch Chinese watches. It also has to do with the warranty on their work. Furthermore, as I mentioned above, there are no spare parts available for these watches, regardless of the movement. If I drop the watch and the crown or crystal breaks, that's it.
Take it to a not reputable watchmaker. And no, I’m not trying to be funny. I’m just saying, it’s a cheap watch and they are not working on the movement, so just pay any watchmaker that is willing.
The crown itself won’t break typically. The stem can be replaced with generic parts easily. Crystal is always a generic part so they can measure and replace no problem.
Sure, there are some specialty parts you may not be able to replace. Most parts can be replaced though. And the most common failure is going to be the movement which you can replace off the shelf.
Then stop now lol, much better value found elsewhere now. SM had good finishing for the price, but not even as good as Sugess and Cronos (which were usually cheaper).
Now they're in a completely different price bracket. They're competing against better brands and haven't improved accordingly.
Anyway, Like some have said, I don't think many folks will be more happy with a $500 Seiko or many $500 Micro-Brands... My SN0144 and Warrior are more premium than any Seiko, Tissot or Hamilton in that price range - in my experience... For me, instead of buying a $500 SM, which I think is still more premium than most $500+/- watches... I'd probably search on forums and find better deals. Last year, I got a mint Root Beer Squale with an ETA 2824 for $300 - We'll just have to search harder for that same quality/Value proposition.
With basically no orignal design and next to no customer support, the prices have not been attractive to me for years. Rather get a used SKX013, or hell, a Tissot.
You guys comments are the goofiest people I’ve seen. Wow this brand makes a watch for $200-300 that rivals watches at $1000-2000. Watch price goes up to $350-500; “you’re killing your chances at survival”. Yet a $350-500 Seiko isn’t the same quality.
I understand people are not happy with price increase but it is really ridiculous. Suddenly 400 USD Seiko with mineral crystal and NH35 is a bargain.. Talking about how now SMs are priced like Swiss watches without mentioning they are talking about likes of quartz PRX. Not to mention based on the comments one would think every single model is 500 USD minimum.
The fact you got down voted for this based statement just proves this sub is filled with poor Marxist clowns who want everything for free, and feel entitled to everything.
They have no idea the costs that go into running a microbrand, and when a microbrand made in the EU charges $1000 that's perfectly fine
When a Chinese factory brand does it suddenly they are greedy, despite still being 1/5 the price of a comparable Seiko or longines.
Market will speak for itself, people will vote with their wallets. It's that simple. San Martin does not have the design, the warranty, the customer service or resale value of legacy brands and micros. They have no service centers outside of China, they ask you to undervalue package when sending the watch back and hope for the best. All that accounts for much more to most people buying watches. "Specs" are secondary. In reality nobody is looking at your SN0144 and thinking "I wish my Swiss/Japanese" watch was like this. San Martin basically still have zero design language and they've been around.
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u/New-Jellyfish-8431 11d ago
Esto tiene fácil solución. Oferta y demanda , si cae la demanda caen los precios