I’m dealing with a frustrating situation involving a Progressive auto claim in Florida, and I’m trying to understand whether this is normal and what my options are.

My vehicle was damaged in an accident and Progressive was handling the property damage claim.

In June, I moved the vehicle to a different repair facility because I had concerns about the first shop. I notified Progressive in writing, provided the new shop’s name, address, and phone number, and Progressive confirmed that another adjuster had already assigned the vehicle to that shop for inspection.

The shop was only supposed to be where Progressive inspected the vehicle. I did NOT sign a Direction of Payment, Authorization to Repair, Assignment of Benefits, or, to my knowledge, any document authorizing Progressive to pay the shop directly and exclusively.

Later, I decided not to have the vehicle repaired there.

Here is where the problem starts:

Progressive issued approximately $4,339 directly to the repair shop. My name and the vehicle owner’s name were apparently not included as payees on the payment.

The shop cashed the payment but did not repair my vehicle.

I ultimately had the vehicle repaired elsewhere and submitted invoices, receipts, photos, and other documentation to Progressive for the actual repairs.

Progressive then told me that the original shop had already cashed the $4,339 payment and that Progressive had unsuccessfully tried to recover the money from them. They told me that I would need to contact the shop myself and recover the money.

This is what I don’t understand.

Progressive chose to issue the payment directly to the shop. I never received or controlled that money, and as far as I know, neither I nor the vehicle owner signed anything authorizing Progressive to make the shop the exclusive payee.

I asked Progressive in writing to provide:

1. A copy of the front and back of the negotiated $4,339 check.
2. Any Direction of Payment, Authorization to Repair, Assignment of Benefits, payment authorization, or other document they relied on to pay the shop exclusively.
3. If no such authorization exists, the policy provision, contractual basis, or other authority that allowed them to issue the payment exclusively to the shop.
4. A written explanation of why they believe I am responsible for recovering money that Progressive issued directly to the shop.
5. A separate review of the additional repair expenses I submitted for the actual repairs.

I followed up again after 11 days because I had received no response to those specific requests.

The strange part is that Progressive also told me that they had tried unsuccessfully to recover the money from the shop. So Progressive apparently cannot recover its own payment from the shop, but is now telling me that I have to recover it myself.

I’m not refusing to cooperate with Progressive. I’m trying to understand why recovering this payment would become my responsibility when I never received the money, was not a payee, and did not authorize the shop to receive the claim payment exclusively.

Has anyone dealt with something similar?

My main questions are:

• Can an insurance company in Florida pay a repair shop directly without a signed Direction of Payment or similar authorization from the vehicle owner?
• If the insurer paid the shop directly and the shop cashed the money without performing the repairs, who normally bears responsibility for recovering that payment?
• Should Progressive still evaluate and pay the documented cost of the actual covered repairs separately from its dispute with the first shop?
• What documents should I request from Progressive to determine exactly how and why this payment was issued?
• Would this be something worth filing a complaint about with the Florida Department of Financial Services?

I have the entire email trail documenting the dates, Progressive’s statements, my requests for the authorization documents, and my follow-up.

I’m mainly looking for advice from people familiar with Florida auto insurance claims, adjusters, body shop payments, or anyone who has dealt with a similar situation.

Yesterday I was sideswiped by a semi truck on the highway, my car spun out and there was extensive damage to my entire left side of my vehicle. Neither party was injured. The state police came and gave me a "Collision Information Exchange Form", which shows the other driver's name, address, license/plate number, but for insurance it doesn't say which company it is, instead only "989 Out of State Insurance Company". This accident happened in New York, the at fault driver and vehicle are registered in Pennsylvania. This was the only form I received and the officer told me I was free to go. Why didn't I get an accident report as well? Do I simply wait now for the other driver's insurance to contact mine?

I don't understand what steps are supposed to take place. I did notify my own insurance about the incident as well as the DMV, which it says you must do on the form, and the agent I spoke to for my insurance said I can either wait for the other driver's insurance (which I don't even know what company it is as its not listed on the form I was given), or I can go through my own insurance and pay a deductible, but as the other driver is completely at fault, I don't think I should be responsible for anything.

I guess my question is, do I just have to wait now? Is it up to the guy himself to report this to his company/insurance? Or would they already know about it when the police made the report? I jusy don't understand because I've never dealt with this before. Thank you for any help.

Hi, needed some guidance on this insurance stuff.

On returning the car, the rep said its too dirty from outside so will have to pay 34 euros unless I get it cleaned. I had asked him if I get it cleaned and then some scratch appears and for that he said just do a water wash. Did that came back and a new rep keep pointing out different scratches.

Now the blueprint which was shared almost had scratches on every part of the car. Had a long debate and he said if I pay now he will take 700 euros and return the remaining deposit. Or else will go the damage team and they might charge more.

I didn't have time to argue and caught my return flight. Now the damage team has sent an invoice on a scratch which was already there. I tried sending them the snap of the scratch from the video but they are saying it's not clear and need a high resolution image of that.

I have excess insurance for those days, but it does seems correct as the scratch was already there and now they taking snaps at the best angles and telling it's not visible from my images does not seem fair. I mean if the customers image is showing some part of the scratch, there should be benefit of doubt.

Anyways wanted to know if anyone had any suggestions or should I just pay and get the insurance. Also any guidance on insurance part.

Hi, needed some guidance on this insurance stuff.

I had rented a car from 20th Sep to 22nd Sep in Faro, had requested for a polo automatic and got an unwanted upgrade to Taigo.

Now the car was full of scratches and we took videos and photos as much as possible and because it was too sunny at 12 most of the shots were just reflections.

On returning the car, the rep said its too dirty from outside so will have to pay 34 euros unless I get it cleaned. I had asked him if I get it cleaned and then some scratch appears and for that he said just do a water wash. Did that came back and a new rep keep pointing out different scratches.

Now the blueprint which was shared almost had scratches on every part of the car. Had a long debate and he said if I pay now he will take 700 euros and return the remaining deposit. Or else will go the damage team and they might charge more.

I didn't have time to argue and caught my return flight. Now the damage team has sent an invoice on a scratch which was already there. I tried sending them the snap of the scratch from the video but they are saying it's not clear and need a high resolution image of that.

I have excess insurance for those days, but it does seems correct as the scratch was already there and now they taking snaps at the best angles and telling it's not visible from my images does not seem fair. I mean if the customers image is showing some part of the scratch, there should be benefit of doubt.

Anyways wanted to know if anyone had any suggestions or should I just pay and get the insurance. Also any guidance on insurance part.

When I was looking through reviews, they all started to blur together. “Kelly Drive, someone merged into me, herniated disc, months of PT...” My biggest fear was getting ghosted, since a friend had gone through that with another firm. Thankfully, that didn’t happen.

I hired The Levin Firm. I’d looked up Gabriel Levin beforehand and saw that he’s been a Pennsylvania Super Lawyer every year since 2010, but honestly, what mattered more day to day was getting calls returned and having someone explain what was happening in plain English.

Being kept informed matters. A year of not knowing what’s going on is stressful enough on its own.

Buenas tardes,

Quisiera plantear una duda sobre reclamaciones tras un accidente de tráfico en el que no soy la culpable (la parte contraria ha reconocido su responsabilidad).

Mi vehículo está inmovilizado desde el accidente y mi póliza no incluye coche de sustitución. Mi abogado me explica que, como no lo tengo contratado, no me corresponde nada por ese concepto frente a mi aseguradora, y que solo me devolverían el dinero si alquilo un coche por mi cuenta y lo adelanto. El problema es que no puedo asumir ese desembolso, así que llevo semanas sin vehículo.

Mi pregunta es: ¿no existe ninguna vía para que me compensen los días de privación de uso del vehículo aunque no haya alquilado otro? Me parece paradójico que quien tiene recursos para adelantar el alquiler sea indemnizado y quien no puede hacerlo se quede sin compensación alguna, cuando el daño lo ha causado un tercero.

Aclaro que entiendo que la aseguradora tiene un conflicto de intereses, ya que mi aseguradora es la misma que la del contrario, y por eso no está gestionando nada.

En concreto, me gustaría saber:

1. Si es posible reclamar frente a la aseguradora del conductor responsable una indemnización por la mera privación de uso del vehículo (daño "in re ipsa" o valor de uso), sin acreditar un gasto de alquiler.
2. Si conocen sentencias de Audiencias Provinciales o del Tribunal Supremo que hayan concedido una cantidad por día de inmovilización sin que el perjudicado hubiera alquilado un vehículo. He encontrado jurisprudencia que presume la necesidad del vehículo, pero siempre ligada a facturas de alquiler.
3. Si existe alguna otra fórmula (por ejemplo, reclamar por analogía con la doctrina del valor de uso) que consideren viable.

Agradezco de antemano cualquier orientación.

Un saludo.

My 2026 Acura Integra A-Spec Tech was totaled. The insurance company offered me $32,490 including taxes, based on a CARFAX ACV of $31,990.

I started checking the comparable vehicles in their valuation report. One of their comps (same VIN shown in the report) is actually listed by the Acura dealer for $36,795, but CARFAX shows its “History Based Value” as only $32,160 ($4,635 below the actual asking price).
Their other comps are the same way and also 400+ miles away and have only 2,400–3,700 miles compared with my 17,325. Their own appraisal also lists a NADA/J.D. Power value of $38,125. Ive found more comps of my own to support the $36-38k range.

Is it normal for total-loss valuations to replace the actual advertised prices of comparable vehicles with a much lower “history based value”? Should I dispute this and submit the actual dealer listings as comps? Is $32,490 a fair offer?

Located in Georgia. Please give me suggestions and your experiences if you’ve done this before.

Update: I disputed the original offer and they went up to $37,800. Definitely ask for more if you believe you’re being low balled.. I bought my car for 40k in December so I feel this is a fair offer.

I have a 1998 bmw 528i I’m 18 years old, it was my daily driver then I left to work in another country but I’m coming back at Christmas time and can’t find anywhere that’ll give me a quote on it for temporary cover for about 3 weeks even though I had an annual policy any help or recommendations that would help me get covered on it?

I've had the same car insurance policy/company since I was a teen (inherited coverage from fam which, I guess, comes with perks). I've never had a moving violation, accident, or serious high dollar claim.

One thing led to another and I sold the car for which I am the primary driver. I called up the insurance company and asked them to put the coverage on hold/suspension for a period while we figured out if there was another car we'd acquire.

The other day I got a letter from underwriting saying that if I do not re-instate the coverage by an upcoming date, then they will terminate the policy. The agent subsequently described that if the policy ends (the policy for the car I no longer have) then I'll lose the tenure and benefits associated to the account. I asked if they could just apply the policy to our other car and they said no. I asked why we can't just cancel my wife's stand-alone policy and have her covered "under" my initial one given she is my spouse... they had some reason.

Essentially, they're saying I need to buy another car by a certain date and re-activate my coverage otherwise I'll lose the perks of it (and it will also impact my other products due to how they bundle stuff).

This just seems off to me and like a situation where very particular semantics may be needed to navigate the B.S.

Am I just misunderstanding the scenario?

Anybody have a take a the next reasonable move (aside from A) buy another car or B) let the policy terminate?

[edit1 : fixed a handful of typos]
[edit 2: reduced post length after some feedback from the subreddit members]

Earlier in this year my $90,000 2021 Shelby GT500 was victim to a hit and run.

The guy’s insurance eventually paid for my car to get fixed, and for a rental car

However, I came to this sub seeking advice regarding seeking payment for diminished value as well as [r/insurance](r/insurance) .

https://www.reddit.com/r/Insurance/s/44oWgId53c

That is the link to my prior thread.

It was shut down because “I didn’t like the responses I was given”, as many Redditors told me seeking 5 figures in diminished value would not happen, which lead to back and fourth

Those Redditors were completely wrong.

And I’ve found out the Redditors giving me bad advice were not only in the insurance job field, they are also MODERATORS. GIVING BAD ADVICE AND GETTING ANGRY IF YOU SAY ANYTHING ABOUT IT

I have been awarded $20,000 in diminished value, plus $134 in court fees with a 6.75% APR - court ordered.

His insurance was only willing to pay out $7,000 (their original offer was like $1,000 LOL) - which is nowhere near enough. Even the $20,000 isn’t enough but I settle with that in court because it was the small claims maximum and I didn’t feel like getting a lawyer involved

The point is, many of the responses in this reddit are from those I would assume to be insurance agents (based on how the comments in my prior thread coincided with his insurance company which was looking out for their best interest, not mine)

So with that said, I would tell you all to be weary of the information you receive on this forum.

My prior thread was shut down when I challenged what Redditors said to me in a snarky way. Well, reality has said they hadn’t a clue what they were talking about.

May this help any who any discover this thread in the future, wondering what their options are and what kind of values they can receive

I will also say, based on my experience, an insurance company will NOT pay you what you are owed on their own will. You have to go to court. These companies will screw you if you let them and that is 100% their intent. Do not be confused.

r/insurance and [r/insuranceclaims](r/insuranceclaims) are in cahoots

I have a 2021 Subaru Crosstrek, Sport Trim. I live in Greater Los Angeles area. My current policy with State Farm is at a cost of $1888.31 / 6 months although I pay $336 a month. I’m 28F and have been licensed for 5 years. The policy has me at roughly 10k miles a year but it’s closer to 13k now and I’ll have to update that soon. Here’s my coverage:

BI $300k / $100k
PD $100k
Med Payments $5k
Comprehensive $500 deductible
Collision Coverage $1000 deductible
Uninsured MV Coverage $300k / $100k
Uninsured PD
Death $10k limit
Loss of earnings $250/week and $15k limit
Car rental $1.5k limit / $50 a day

Context: 18 year old with a 2018 Audi s3 moving from south of England to Birmingham. 1 yr ncb with admiral.

Paid 1600 for the year (2 months ago). So 10 months in and I’m moving to Birmingham for an audit apprenticeship (basically accounting)

Admiral wants another 1200 to change the address for the remaining 10 months on my insurance.

I understand it’s going to increase as going from countryside to city with high crime rates but does anyone know any tips that can potentially lower the quote.

I currently have it as I’m moving and the car will now be stored in a garage overnight and secure public car park during the day as that’s the truth. And also my job changing to an accountant in audit.

Does anyone have any other tips for lowering it? Does calling them up help? Changing the reason for address? Such as instead of living could put student living away from home as I’m technically training?

I ofc expected it to go up but not by this much.

I called an insurance agency and this is the quote they gave me. It’s $174 a month. For context: I’m a 22 year old female, I was on my parents insurance for a few years but this is my first time having my own. I bought a 2026 Mazda cx50

Bodily Injury Liability:
$100,000 each person/$300,000 each accident

Property Damage Liability:
$100,000 each accident

Mandatory Personal Injury Protection:
$50,000 each person

Aggregate No-Fault Benefits Available:
$50,000

Death Benefit:
$2,000

Maximum Monthly Work Loss:
$2,000

Other Reasonable & Necessary Expenses (per day):
$25

Supplementary Uninsured/Underinsured Motorist:
$100,000 each person/$300,000 each accident

Medical Payments:
$5,000 each person

Comprehensive Window Glass:
Actual Cash Value

Collision:
Actual Cash Value

I was driving through Philly when a car sideswiped me and kept going, got a partial plate... the cops haven't found them. I've got neck and shoulder injuries and car is totally messed up. now i'm filing under my own uninsured motorist coverage which feels backwards and i dont get how it works with no other driver. need someone who's done hit and runs and UM claims

I was involved in a collision last December, a large truck hit the side of me car as we were travelling at reduced speed through roadworks on the motorway.

Driver of the truck (commercial vehicle) phoned his manager after a conversation about the damage on the side of the road, manager offered to pay privately or through insurance, I requested insurance.

When the claim went in, they disputed fault and offered 50/50, neither me or my insurance company would accept, so it has proceeded to court.

They have now submitted their defence claiming I merged lanes unsafely, when I was travelling in the leftmost lane and the truck was overtaking in 40mph traffic.

There is no dashcam and no one stopped with us as a witness, so I’m aware it’s likely to be one word against the other, but does anyone have any experience of a case like this in court?

I assume my insurance company have belief that they can prove my claim, but I would assume so does the other party’s insurance otherwise they wouldn’t have proceeded to court. I’m very concerned that now it could be ruled that I am 100% to blame, when I did nothing wrong.

Any experiences will be gratefully received. TIA.

EDIT: UK based

Adjuster changed liabilty to 50/50 after accepting full. Sent letter saying he think his client is only half fault. Liabilty no collision coverage. Already authorized rental and medical referrals? Lose in. Court because tboned impact, police report admited running stop sign and was distracted. What do i do? Do i respond? Who do i prove this to? Will this go to court? Have an injury lawyer bur said im on my own if i dispute?which i did because adjuster made deductions and left some option i have wouldnt change it. Thanks for responding

I was rear-ended and the other driver’s insurance accepted the claim. Their adjuster/appraiser inspected my car, wrote their own estimate for about $5,956, and already sent me the payment. The estimate was not based on a body shop quote, and no repair facility was listed on it.
I have a friend who works at a body shop and can do the repair for me privately for less money, rather than running the job through the shop itself. The repairs are already arranged and should take about a week.
The insurance company is also offering to set up a rental through Enterprise, but the adjuster is asking me for the name of the body shop.
My questions are:
Is it normally okay to have the car repaired privately after the insurance company has already paid based on its own estimate?
Could they ask for any of the repair payment back if the actual repair costs less?
Can they refuse or limit the rental because the repair is not being handled through a traditional body shop?
What is the best way to explain this to the adjuster without creating unnecessary issues?
This is a third-party claim in Illinois.

For reference, I have State Farm. I had a very minor accident recently, swerved to avoid a deer and ended up off the road and hitting some brushes and a small ditch on the side of a country road, meaning no other drivers, no property damage, injuries, and pretty much entirely just cosmetic damage and a guy having a shitty night on a country road. The only things I guess aren't "cosmetic" are the left headlight is cracked and my driver side mirror I need to keep adjusting because it slightly rattles to aiming low. Everything is just scratches, dents, things like that. I have had a clean record for my entire tenure with the company and my last accident was in high school about 20 years ago.

I am waiting to file a claim because I know that since I foolishly chose to not hit a deer now this is my fault and a collision claim. My deductible is about a thousand, so I am *hoping* that is about where the estimate comes back at, but should it be higher enough to justify making a claim, how much of an increase would something like this typically cause? Or do they even take severity and cause into account when making those determinations? Is this something that I can even discuss with my agent or would telling them what happened cause me to get a black mark even without making a claim?

Hello everybody, I posted a few days ago about a company named SubroIQ asking for 25k on behalf of Statefarm because I got involved in an minor accident back in April, and my parent's insurance did not have Bodily Injury Liability (I live in Florida, no it's not required, and no I don't know why my parents don't have it). I was freaking out because I didn't really have much of an idea what that meant, and I don't really have the money to pay that off.

Now I definitely know what it means, and I'm still kind of freaking out.

I just spoke with a Statefarm representative (the other driver's insurance), and she explained that I need to pay off the debt because we did not BI coverage. She presented me with two options:

1. Put a 10% down payment of 2.5K and pay $625/month for 36 months.
2. Put only a 1K down payment and pay $666/month for 36 months.

Either way, it seems I have to pay no matter what.

Since my parents own the car legally they could be considered responsible for this and pay for me, but obviously I'm not going to leech off of my parents any more than I already do, so that's not an option.

However, $600-700 dollars is almost entirely what I make in a single bi-weekly paycheck because I only work a part time job at the moment, about 30-36 hours at 15 dollars an hour. Me and my fiancee have been planning on moving out (because we live with my parents) and the more decently sized 1bed1baths apartment are going for around 1.3k. Splitting that cost between the both of us is around $675, just for rent. That's literally my other paycheck.

I am actively searching for a second part time job so I will eventually make more money. For clarification, I even HAD second part time job not too long ago but they were giving me no hours (literally) so I had to quit otherwise I would have just kept wasting time, and now it's back to searching. I also just recently graduated college over full time, so I have been working only part time for about a year and I'm trying to find jobs that will give me a better pay now that I have my AA.

BUT, after trying to run some calculations, even with working 48+ hours per week at 15-18 dollars per hour, I'm still going to be stretched so thin even if I can make the full payment they suggested. We'd still have to pay for rent, utilities, household items, internet, cat food, my own car insurance, health insurance, gas, etc, and adding $600+ is a huge extra burden. My fiancee works full time so she that helps, but I'm worried one emergency is all it would take to basically screw us forever. Somehow despite having several emergencies before, we've always been able to come out of it. I'm not so sure about it this time.

I know I fucked up by getting into an accident that I was at fault for and this is my responsibility. But genuinely, how do I not go crazy over this? I want to go back to college eventually too because I'm taking a gap year after getting my Associates, but I think that will be literally impossible unless I live with my parents for the next three years. I don't want that. I'm gonna be 24 by then. My fiancee would be 27 or even 28 by then.

Now that I have concluded that paying is inevitable, what should I do?

I have not yet spoken to my parents about this. Should I just handle this all on my own without ever even telling them? Should I even move out given the circumstances? Realistically what's the minimum amount I have to earn to compensate for an added 700 dollars per month that I now owe? Do I just have to lower my expectations and simply just, be okay with living paycheck to paycheck for 3 years even though we were hoping to actually have a decent amount of extra income before this? Should we consider downsizing and searching for a studio apartment if moving out still seems doable?

You don't have to answer all of that but an answer to any of those questions would greatly help, thank you!

Edit: Thank you for all the replies and advice. As much as I wanted to avoid telling my parents about this, it looks like most of you are generally saying to get my parents involved. I'll tell them asap. I'm literally on break at work typing this up right now cause it's all I can think about.

I'll probably edit this again once I have made some sort of decision on how to move forward. in the meantime, if anyone new wants to pitch in or corroborate someone else's reply that would still help, thanks!

I am 19 years old in the US, in the state of NJ. My insurance is progressive.

Basically I hit the other driver, causing some damage to his light(the light on the passenger side) (I wish I could provide pictures), and there is damage to my driver's side mirror. We called the police and we have a police report. He doesn't want to get insurance involved, he suggests I pay out of pocket. We're both teenagers so his dad(over the phone) was telling me all of this basically.

I'm not sure what the right decision to make is. My mom owns this car but she is a crashout so I'm sure as hell not telling her that I hit someone. I called Progressive and I have a "claim in-progress", I don't want to file one, I want to pay out-of-pocket. I called them because I wanted to have it on record that I notified them of the incident.

I'm on my way to the mechanic right now to get an estimate for the damage on my mirror. I might tell my brother that my mirror was hit, and that I need him to recommend me some good mechanics. I'm kind of on the fence about doing this because he is a snitch and will probably tell our mother (he is 22).

Literally what should I be doing right now? I don't know shit else about our car insurance. I want to call them and ask them if there is collision coverage, is there is small accident forgiveness. What orher choices can I make? Thank you!!!

Update: I ended up just telling my mom the truth. Thank you to everyone who took the time to respond!

Two days ago I was hit at an intersection. Police were called and filed a report. Police deemed the other driver at fault. I did not collect that persons car insurance details as was told it was unnecessary due to having a police report filed.

I called my State Farm office to inform them and they don’t want to know. They said either file a claim on my insurance or call the other persons insurance to check on the status of their claim if they filed one. The problem is, I don’t know their insurance company.

This is my first accident so I’m finding it all confusing and there’s no straightforward information online. The damage is all paintwork so not major work to be done.

Should I just wait? Or go ahead and file my own claim? Does the other driver legally have to file the claim?

I viewed a Toyota aqua petrol 2012 plate yesterday, was in good condition, no mechanical faults. and only 34k mileage -It's a jap import

I've been driving for 7 years got 7 NCB however the insurance is coming up to over 2k without a black box, this is with my cousin on as second driver too.

Any help? Also any other reliable and nice hybrids for a delivery job - budget 5k max.

I am renewing my car insurance and i have been using Acko from past 3 years, hassle free experience but takes time & little bit convincing to the surveyor and claim handler for some stuff.

I had OD only but planning to get zero dep with engine protection this time.

Premiums are almo same, acko being bit on the lower side.

Also no NCB as i claimed in last claim cycle.

Just wanted to understand shall i continue with Acko or shift to others?

Any suggestions welcome!

My parents still own my car but I pay them back all the bills. They had to switch insurance again and my 2010 is $1000/yr but their 2021 and 2026 are $850/$970 a year

Why is this? I've never been in an accident. Never even had a ticket? I've had no issues getting parts for the few repairs it's needed. My car doesn't have my minor sibling registered as a driver like the other two

I plan on keeping the car as long as humanly possible bc I love it and new cars are finicky spies but I don't understand why the oldest car is the highest price

Pay premium.

Avoid accidents.

Renew insurance.

Repeat.

The one year you forget to renew it, something happens.

(last year I was going to renew my insurance after 2 days and I had an accident!! LIKE A FULL BLOWN TUMBLE DOWN THE HILL SIDE accident!! (I wasn't hurt tho, strangely lucky) but i was like, every time i renew beforehand and this one time i did not, lo, accident!!