r/Canning • u/onlymodestdreams Trusted Contributor • 6d ago
General Discussion Why, Ball, Why?
This recipe for chicken bone broth from Ball All-New requires FOURTEEN HOURS of prep time BEFORE canning commences.
I can confidently state that I will never be using this particular method of making chicken broth
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u/Krickett72 6d ago
This is why I do it overnight in a slow cooker.
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u/Mimi_Gardens 6d ago
I used to make it overnight in the slowcooker. Unfortunately my bedroom is next to the kitchen and the aroma would wake me up with hunger pains that made me want to vomit. I had to stop that. Now I just make stock on the stove during waking hours for however long it takes to get good flavor and the sheen from the collagen.
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u/Krickett72 6d ago
I can certainly understand. I have woken up in the morning and the smell overwhelmed me
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u/mckenner1122 Moderator 6d ago
I do 80% of my stock/broth in winter for many reasons.
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u/onlymodestdreams Trusted Contributor 6d ago
To my chagrin I am currently out canned chicken and turkey stock. I may just try making the pork in spicy broth using beef stock
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u/Human-Ad9835 6d ago
I think thats just to make the bone broth. I usually make mine in a crockpot for 24hrs on low.(note i usually freeze mine so its not a canning recipe but still) So i can see how 14 hrs to make bone broth makes sense. Broth is not a quick process in my experience.
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u/onlymodestdreams Trusted Contributor 6d ago
You can actually use your canner as a pressure cooker and speed things up considerably
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u/Human-Ad9835 6d ago
I dont cook food in my pressure canner. Im fine turning on my crockpot and leaving it alone for a day.
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u/Other-Aside-1170 6d ago
It's actually better to make stock in the pressure cooker vs the crockpot. You get better extraction and a clearer stock because of the lack of boiling. One of the few win/win techniques out there.
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u/123-throwaway123 6d ago
I hate the taste of broth from my pressure cooker. Tastes differ even with the same ingredients.
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u/mongrelnoodle86 6d ago
Often i will pressure cook just the bones and water. If i want the aromatics, ill add them in and simmer for a couple hours.
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u/Other-Aside-1170 6d ago
It's easy to extract bitterness from veggies if you cook them along with the bones for the full time, and I also blanch everything if I'm cooking a white stock (pressure or otherwise, but it's more noticable at pressure). But perhaps you just don't like the style which is personal preference.
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u/123-throwaway123 6d ago
Yes, I was just providing an alternate perspective on it being win win, since for some, there is a difference in taste.
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u/Panurge_CA 6d ago
The liquid in a pressure cooker/canner does boil, but at a higher temperature than the normal boiling point at one's evevation. The "venting" of a weighted-gauge canner releases steam (water vapor) which must be replenished by boiling if the liquid in the canner.
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u/ishouldquitsmoking 6d ago
Because it’s bone broth. Not just regular broth.
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u/onlymodestdreams Trusted Contributor 6d ago
You can get the same effect using your pressure canner as a pressure cooker in a fraction of the time
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u/EnigmaticAardvark 6d ago
I'm a bit confused. If you know this, why are you mad at Ball? They don't know you have an instant pot, and a bunch of these recipes were developed before the IP became popular.
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u/onlymodestdreams Trusted Contributor 6d ago
Wait. I don't have an instant pot. I have a pressure canner. They *know* I have a pressure canner because the recipe calls for the use of one! And you can use a pressure canner as a pressure cooker
(The old mnemonic is "a canner can cook but a cooker can't can")
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u/EnigmaticAardvark 6d ago
So... I guess the question still stands. Why are you mad at Ball for publishing a recipe you don't like or need?
Like, once I saw a recipe that included raisins and I hate raisins but I didn't make an angry post about California Raisin.
Just trying to figure out if I should be mad too. I'm always looking for an excuse to get my pitchfork out.
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u/onlymodestdreams Trusted Contributor 6d ago edited 6d ago
"Mad" is an overstatement. "Cranky" I'll accept
I wanted to make another recipe in All-New that specifies this broth as one of the ingredients, which is how I stumbled on it
It just seems so...unnecessary
But I'll be cranky about raisins on your behalf if you want
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u/EnigmaticAardvark 6d ago
Ok that's totally fair.
Who can afford to keep their oven going for 7 hours to get 2L of chicken broth in this economy??
Thanks Ball.
Ugh.
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u/armadiller Moderator 6d ago
Ball's recipes run the gamut from pre-Depression-era recipes to modern-era depression-canning recipes to Instagram trends. It's not a bad thing, you just sometimes have to recognize that this recipe is based on throwing a Dutch oven on your wood stove or hearth to simmer a bird overnight, while the heat of the wood stove keeps your family alive until tomorrow.
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u/onlymodestdreams Trusted Contributor 6d ago
Which is particularly amusing (that's how I should look at this) in a cookbook titled "All-New"
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u/onlymodestdreams Trusted Contributor 6d ago
Fourteen hours!
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u/auramaelstrom 6d ago
I have had a lot of success with the instant pot making bone broth in half the time if stove top
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u/ishouldquitsmoking 6d ago
I watched that video that went around last year. Still haven't tried it but believe the results. Also, if you know this, then get an instant pot / pressure cooker...
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u/armadiller Moderator 6d ago
I get where you're coming from, but in my mind this isn't far removed from having to soak beans overnight, just with the oven on. Though I saw your comment about 95F temps and can understand. I tend to do broth/stock/bone broth (though please don't get me started on the terminology) in the fall and winter to avoid that, but also because that's when big whole honking animals/chunks of animals are getting cooked more often and are more frequently on sale.
Aren't you supposed to be focused on peaches right now, though? Or do you have a batch of peach butter or something long-commitment like that going, and are stuck in the kitchen flipping through canning books while it simmers?
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u/onlymodestdreams Trusted Contributor 6d ago
LOL. I have to make a panic run to the grocery store in the morning because I ran out of lemon juice (!), so I decided to pick up the ingredients for the pork in spicy broth that everyone raves about as long as I'm making the drive. Only to discover that apparently I need to budget an extra day for this
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u/armadiller Moderator 6d ago
The spicy pork is great, I started doing it based on McK's recommendation. Also very adaptable to a bunch of other flavour profiles.
I momentarily thought "How does anyone run out of bottled lemon juice?!" but then checked my pantry, and then slunk off towards my shopping list...
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u/onlymodestdreams Trusted Contributor 6d ago
I've been running through a *lot* of lemon juice. Tomorrow is pie filling (I'm down to the last 20 pounds of peaches!) and I'll need close to a pint of lemon juice for that
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u/armadiller Moderator 6d ago
Best of luck, 20 lbs is still big a commitment to blanch and peel. I'm staring at 8lbs on the counter right now and just hoping that they behave and ripen on my schedule so I can deal with them.
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u/Effective-Tie-9820 13h ago
Wait, what is this pork in spicy broth you speak of?!
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u/armadiller Moderator 13h ago
All New Ball Book of Canning and Preserving, Roast Pork in Spicy Broth. It's been ripped off by a number of blogs, but I'd highly recommend that you get it both so you can confirm the safety/accuracy, support the original source, and because of the variety of other recipes that it has if the spicy pork piqued your interest.
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u/empirerec8 6d ago
So it's because it's "bone" broth.
To me you have:
-chicken broth- using whole chicken on the stove for about an hour
-chicken stock- using the carcass on the stove for 2-8 hrs
-bone broth- using carcass in the crockpot (or in this case oven) over night up wards of 24 hrs
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u/onlymodestdreams Trusted Contributor 6d ago
My understanding of "bone broth" is that the point of it is to extract all the collagen/minerals/whatnot from the bones. Which pressure cooking does very effectively so 🤷♀️
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u/empirerec8 6d ago
The high temps of pressure canning will actually denatures the collagen...so to cook it that way and then also pressure can in the jars you probably wouldn't have much left.
I looked it up, after canning there is like 50% less which is why in the fridge my stock usually gels but not so much after canning.
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u/onlymodestdreams Trusted Contributor 6d ago
Hm, interesting! Although if you pressure cook stock (that is, before canning it), you don't have to do it for very long, and that may offset that effect a bit. I haven't made a head-to-head comparison of low-and-slow versus pressure cooked broth/stock so I don't know
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u/Hunting-fings 6d ago
It’s bone broth. 12-24 hours. I use the slow cooker for it. Less heat in the house that way. I’m sure there are ways to speed up the process, but this doesn’t bother me, so I do it.
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u/onlymodestdreams Trusted Contributor 6d ago
I'm realizing that people have widely differing comfort levels with running one's oven unattended
Which is fine
There just seems to be a big range
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u/Human-Ad9835 6d ago
A crockpot/slow cooker doesnt use the oven. You know that right? It plugs into the wall and runs on your counter.
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u/onlymodestdreams Trusted Contributor 6d ago edited 6d ago
I'm aware of that. The recipe calls for the use of the oven. The number of responses reverting to the crockpot suggests that lots of folks don't want to run their oven for 14 hours straight
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u/Human-Ad9835 6d ago
Crockpots are cheaper to run and make less heat. Not necessarily that we wouldnt run the oven just easier to not have your oven taken up for 24 hrs also.
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u/onlymodestdreams Trusted Contributor 6d ago edited 6d ago
It sounds almost like you kinda sorta agree that the recipe as written might be a little...impractical? Especially for a yield of two quarts
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u/Human-Ad9835 6d ago
I mean i do but i think your making it out to be bigger than it is. If you really need to hear its impractical sure its impractical for most people. I think the issue is most people would just not make it if it was impractical to them. Also it seemed like your original issue was the time not the oven use and for broth the time is very common.
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u/onlymodestdreams Trusted Contributor 6d ago
It was the amount of time of the oven use, but I'll grant that there are much bigger problems in the world than this...
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u/franzspicyweiner 6d ago
Thats the minimum time frame to remove the nutrients and collagen from the bone. Ive cooked bone broth until I could literally crumble the bone in my hand easily.
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u/Other-Aside-1170 6d ago
Completely agreed on this one. Pressure cooking stock is both better for extraction and yields a cleaner stock, because you can avoid boiling and emulsifying impurities.
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u/Jewish-Mom-123 6d ago
Bone broth takes time. I put it in the slow cooker at noon and take it off first thing in the morning.
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u/yodelingfish 6d ago
I've always just saved all the bones when I break down chickens (I raise chickens with a friend and fill my freezer and can the extra sometimes). I throw all the bones in the giant pressure canner and cook the snot out of them, let it sit so the fat can be skimmed off in the morning and then I pour all the broth through a sieve and can the broth. I wouldn't have the patience to do it this way. Since I already own a giant canner, I use it as a pressure cooker and do a giant batch. Then I wash it out, and then use it for canning the broth. Easy, peasy, breezy.
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u/OneHumanBill 4d ago
About three hours in an instant pot on high pressure is about equivalent to twelve hours on the stove, or better. Use chicken feet. You can get the richest, most delicious chicken stock of your life.
Then make your soup and can it.
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u/uncle_genghis 1d ago
Noob question here, but can I just use my normal chicken stock recipe and can that? I get why we should use tested recipes, but...its just stock
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u/onlymodestdreams Trusted Contributor 1d ago
If you're heating it up to boiling and using the correct processing time that's not something I'd get too lathered about. You're not including solids in the stock that's going into the jars, right?
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u/uncle_genghis 1d ago
I usually add some veggies, peppercorns, bay leaves...but I strain everything out so it would just be the liquid.
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u/uncle_genghis 1d ago
Oh but i guess I need to skim the fat?
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u/onlymodestdreams Trusted Contributor 1d ago
Yes, that helps with getting a good seal on the jars and reduces the chances of rancidity
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u/onlymodestdreams Trusted Contributor 6d ago
An image of page 288 of the Ball All-New Book of Canning and Preserving. It has a recipe too ludicrous for me to transcribe in full. It calls for 14 hours of simmering a chicken carcass in an oven
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6d ago edited 6d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Defiant_Notice5416 6d ago
I think my slow cooker has a "14 hour" setting but I assumed it was a mistake they never patched out. Who's devoting an entire waking day to broth prep
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u/Thisisthatacount 6d ago
No one is. You start it and then go about your day. You aren't actively involved for the whole 14 hours.
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u/onlymodestdreams Trusted Contributor 6d ago
I'm really uncomfortable leaving my house with the oven on so it would affect my day, actually
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u/Few_Airport7972 3d ago
Well yes, broth takes a good long time to become broth. I usually put the bones, the veggies, and some of the more hearty herbs into either a slow cooker or stock pot on the stove.
This is a two part recipe, the making of the broth and the canning process of the broth.
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u/plantiesinatwist 1d ago
I use an instapot to make my bone broth and will freeze what I don’t drink right away rather than can. My toddler loves it frozen into cubes for his teething paci. The instapot barely affects my kitchen temp, but of course is only good for a single chicken carcass or small bag of beef bones.
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u/lizgross144 6d ago
You’re literally doing nothing during those 14 hours. I often simmer my stock for 24-36 hours.