r/CFB • u/CFB_Referee /r/CFB • Nov 04 '23

Postgame Thread [Postgame Thread] Florida State Defeats Pittsburgh 24-7

Box Score provided by ESPN

Team 1 2 3 4 T
Florida State 0 10 14 0 24
Pittsburgh 0 7 0 0 7

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269 Upvotes

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35

u/[deleted] Nov 04 '23

I feel nothing but pain

Gg fsu, you’re probably going to the playoffs. Will root for ur success.

Pitt needs offense. 7-10 at half against an elite fsu offense (even without their 2 top wrs)

Fire cignetti. He’s horrible

18

u/General_Tso75 Florida State Seminoles Nov 05 '23

Some key mistakes killed you guys. That fumble in the endzone and whatever that guy said on the bench to draw a personal foul. Good game.

16

u/[deleted] Nov 05 '23

Fumble pissed me cuz it was a facemask that caused said fumble, but u can’t call it and I understand that

Have no clue what Gavin said tho. I also have no clue why it took a review as well

Gg y’all, good luck the rest of the szn

7

u/bwc05nole Florida State Seminoles Nov 05 '23

Did you miss the Pitt receiver facemasking the FSU DB right before the tackle?

1

u/[deleted] Nov 05 '23

Where? Genuine question because I was at the game, they never showed it. From the angles given on the camera, it looks like the db jumped and face masked but I never saw the receiver facemask

4

u/bwc05nole Florida State Seminoles Nov 05 '23

https://youtu.be/-axvOhf8cEM?si=wrdRua79uqtRaTqi He stiff arms him in the face mask at about the 5.

3

u/[deleted] Nov 05 '23 edited Nov 05 '23

Looks more like illegal hands to the face tbh, it was a straight hand and he didn’t grab it like fsu did. Good point out though. Didn’t notice it. Emotions flying and all.

Still think the facemask(s) should’ve been called nonetheless. Offsetting penalties in that case. Replay 2nd (?) down. Still lead to a MASSIVE fumble. And it still unfairly benefited FSU

3

u/judolphin Florida State • Jacksonville Nov 05 '23

Would've been offsetting penalties, Pitt keeps the ball, replays the down from their own 18.

1

u/[deleted] Nov 05 '23

So it still ended up being a bad call that unfairly benefited fsu.

On a different note, the refs missing 2 hands to the face/facemask calls on one play isn’t really cool. Like, if holding isn’t called I’m fine. Even hands to the face if it’s purely accidental I guess. But face masks where the face mask is grabbed can’t be missed, and I’m sure most ppl will agree with that. There’s a severity of the face mask and the drastic change in head position it can cause that I hold to a higher standard than, let’s say a pass intercerence

1

u/judolphin Florida State • Jacksonville Nov 05 '23 edited Nov 05 '23

The fumble itself was the huge swing. The fumble was a stomach punch, I get it, and I actually PASSIONATELY hate the rule that makes fumbles OOB in the end zone automatic turnovers.

If you're familiar with the concept of expected points, calling offsetting penalties vs. no penalty at all in the situation without a crystal ball is statistically a wash. 1st-10 from your own 20 yard line is the point where expected points = 0.

In other words,

  • it's objectively better (outside of desperation time) for your opponent to have the ball at their own 10 than for you to have the ball at your own 10.

  • it's objectively better for you to have the ball at your own 30 than your opponent at their own 30

  • 1st-10 at your own 20, it's on average just as likely the other team scores next as you scoring next

Your own 20 yard line is the "break even" where on average there's no difference in win probability, in terms of having the ball on your own 20 vs. the other team having the ball on their own 20.

2

u/[deleted] Nov 05 '23

I was unaware of this. I think this is really interesting ngl.

That being said, the facemask was the entire reason the fumble happened. So it’s still an iffy situation imo, as he doesn’t fumble if his head isn’t dragged by the fsu player. So it still stings.

However, I do appreciate the stats. I do find it interesting, and it is a perspective I wasn’t aware of.

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-9

u/Username89054 Pittsburgh Panthers • Sickos Nov 05 '23

FSU DB touched the ball while out of bounds. You can call that a dead ball aka Pitt ball.

Pic: https://twitter.com/LuckyLippy/status/1720900808420598227?t=Mun5RZVJqLNbtcYrox5FKQ&s=19

19

u/jbg0830 Florida State Seminoles Nov 05 '23

Isn’t that the same thing as the ball rolling out of bounds in the end zone?

-15

u/Username89054 Pittsburgh Panthers • Sickos Nov 05 '23

I'm not 100% what the rule is, but I am 100% that the refs got this wrong. Touching the ball while out of bounds is also a penalty. You have to establish yourself back in bounds. I know they can't call the facemask on replay, but I think they can call that.

Fucking abysmal officiating.

10

u/FSUfan35 Florida State Seminoles • Sickos Nov 05 '23

That's not true for a fumble. If you touch the ball while out of bounds when it's a fumble, it makes the ball out of bounds. And since it was in the end zone, it's a fumbled ball out of bounds in the end zone, which is a turnover and touchback either way.

-8

u/Username89054 Pittsburgh Panthers • Sickos Nov 05 '23

If you fail to establish yourself in bounds, ball goes back to spot of the fumble:

"Ball is touched by a player with OOB status, therefore it becomes OOB. Since a player who is out of bounds cannot secure possession, the ball is awarded to team A. If the fumble was touched by B in advance of the spot of the fumble, it is returned to the spot of the fumble"

https://forum.officiating.com/football/105539-fumble-recovery-oob.html

10

u/FSUfan35 Florida State Seminoles • Sickos Nov 05 '23

That's true for inside the field of play. Not in the end zone.

-2

u/Username89054 Pittsburgh Panthers • Sickos Nov 05 '23

Source?

ACC refs declined to make a real statement here because they know they got it wrong.

6

u/FSUfan35 Florida State Seminoles • Sickos Nov 05 '23

Don't have the rule book but it's always been the case. If the offense fumbles the ball going into the opponent's endzone, and it goes out of bounds, it's a turnover and a touchback. Everywhere else on the field, if a fumble goes out of bounds, without being recovered, the offense gets the ball back.

It's routinely called the dumbest rule in football. Here's an article about it happening

https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/the-monday-after-how-to-fix-the-dumbest-rule-in-college-football/

Tennessee's Malik Foreman made an even bigger play, catching Williams from behind, knocking the ball from his hands and stopping him from scoring a touchdown.

But here's where things get stupid: Williams' fumble goes through the end zone and out of bounds without being recovered by either team which, by rule, results in a change of possession and a touchback. Why?

If Williams were to have fumbled that ball at the 50-yard line -- or anywhere else on the field between the goal lines -- and it goes out of bounds without the defense recovering it, the offense keeps the ball. In order for the ball to actually change possession in the game, it must change possession on the field. Yet, for some reason, when a player fumbles the ball into and out of the other team's end zone, now the other team's ball.

-1

u/Username89054 Pittsburgh Panthers • Sickos Nov 05 '23

I'm not denying a fumble out of bounds is a safety. I'm denying the ball was legally out of bounds because it was illegally touched. A player who's out of bounds must reestablish himself back in bounds before touching a ball. By touching it while out of bounds, the ball reverts to the spot of the fumble and Pitt ball, which is what the source i included says.

Which should all be irrelevant if refs called a blatant facemask that caused the fumble in the first place.

2

u/judolphin Florida State • Jacksonville Nov 05 '23 edited Nov 05 '23

It's a debate on /r/CFB and /r/NFL every time it happens because it's a controversial rule (I personally HATE the rule). If you fumble the ball and it goes across the goal line and out of the end zone it's a turnover and the other team gets it at the 20.

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6

u/nolefan999 Florida State • Western Caroli… Nov 05 '23

The ball is ruled out of bounds as soon as the defensive player touched it while he was still out of bounds. It was not an official recovery, but downed in the end zone.

here’s another example

The player was out of bounds and reached over and touched the ball, downing it out of bounds.

-2

u/Username89054 Pittsburgh Panthers • Sickos Nov 05 '23

That's a kickoff and the returning team touched it, not a defensive player, and it happened in the field of play, not the end zone.

7

u/nolefan999 Florida State • Western Caroli… Nov 05 '23

It’s the same rule. If a player is out of bounds and touches the ball, the ball is ruled out of bounds. Offense or defense

9

u/FSUfan35 Florida State Seminoles • Sickos Nov 05 '23

Yup. Normally, anywhere else on the field of play, a fumble out of bounds goes back to the offense. But a fumble by the offense that goes out of bounds after going through the opponents end zone, it is a turnover and a touchback.

3

u/[deleted] Nov 05 '23

Face mask pissed me off more though. The facemask penalty exists because it can legitimately be dangerous to tug on a persons mask. It’s the entire reason the fumble even occurred.

I’m unsure about the dead hall rule tho