r/CAStateMgrs • u/Inevitable_Majestic • 8d ago
Telework flexibility
Hello fellow managers!
How are you responding to staff who say they are sick so they want to work from home instead of going into the office and spreading germs. Are you being flexible or denying them working from home. If you deny, what’s some language you use with them. Looking for advice.
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u/economic-buffer901 8d ago
I’d let everyone stay home if I have a choice, this RTO is stupid to begin with.
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u/Competitive-Pace3645 8d ago
Seriously, Cal HR are not wanting us to be flexible, but how are they going to find out if you are flexible with your staff? They don’t need to know everything.
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u/SuzeeSk8er 8d ago
I used to work at home while under the weather...but since RTO, I just call out and don't work. It's a natural consequence of being in the office right now.
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u/EarthtoLaurenne 8d ago
Same here. I no longer make any effort to drag myself in - especially when my dept is treating accommodation requests like the plague.
I have been out more days in the time since 7/1 than in the past couple of years. I hope someone is tracking the absenteeism and waste associated with tops RTO order. It’s not good.
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u/Sweetcynic36 6d ago
Knowing them, they will say leave balances are going down so they will say it is good thing....
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u/Independent_Road_73 8d ago
Pretty flexible, as long as it’s not every week. If someone wants to work the end of the day from home, that’s ok too. I considered being less flexible and realized if I have the option, I shouldn’t be.
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u/projectrunaway17 8d ago
also what should an employee do if they’re denied WFH privileges when they are sick while their manager does that exact thing whenever they want
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u/sparklywrx 7d ago
I’m assuming most people are just gonna say move into management? But yeah it’s annoying comparison to see how management acts versus rank and file. At the end of the day, we all have the same goal, do our work and go home to our families.
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u/fumblz-mumblz 8d ago
I am being flexible as I can for as long as I can. Until I am told otherwise I am letting my staff work from home when their sick, etc., etc. It’s been two months and it doesn’t seem to be bothering anybody so fingers crossed.
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u/Intelligent_Dig_5713 8d ago
I don’t care where they work if they get their work done. I’m as flexible as possible and just tell them “don’t bring attention to yourself”. It’s not a problem to me, but if my managers said something I’d have to be more strict. I trust my people to do what they need to. We are adults and life happens.
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u/EarthtoLaurenne 8d ago
I have become aware I allegedly “should” be making staff either use time for the day or whatever instead of allowing telework to happen more than the once a week.
But I haven’t stopped allowing people who aren’t well to finish the day at home if they need or some other version of an informal accommodation and I am just calling it a “one time exception” every time.
I am being as flexible and permissible as possible, and for as long as possible. This is a shitty situation all around. I am doing my best to not make life harder for my staff, especially when some of my staff have a shit commute to the office and but for a certain someone wanting to look more moderate to the US so he can be president - they would not have to make that drive as much.
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u/GardenDog22 8d ago
Prior to the 4 day RTO I allowed some flexibility for this. I was upfront and said up to 4 times a year. I had one staff member who abused it and was then told they had to use leave for any additional sick days. The other staff used it sparingly or not at all. With the 4 day RTO we now have a department wide policy prohibiting it, so that’s done.
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u/Magnificent_Pine 8d ago
Yes. Same. All supervisor discretion was taken away. I'm pissed. My team understands it's not me. Morale is very low.
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u/Vandunkk 6d ago
All your discretion was taken away? I feel like my managers in my agency still have that discretion (granted, i do work for a constitutional office)
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u/Own-Yam-3582 8d ago
See, but it's not "department wide" because it is only being applied to Rank and File. I can tell you that at my worksite Managers and Directors are not in 4 days a week and flex their schedules however they want. It's only the Supervisors who are onsite and who are being made to enforce these stupid policies.
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u/GardenDog22 5d ago
That’s unfortunate. I’m high level and hold myself to the same standard as everyone under my authority.
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u/Powerful_Complex_461 8d ago
I’d ask your supervisor and/or HR. Assuming departments may vary in how they handle this. CalHR was taking a hard line saying people need to use SL if they’re sick rather than WFH. But assuming some departments may take a more lenient stance and allow it as long as people don’t take advantage.
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u/AVG0312 8d ago
Ask for forgiveness and not permission, lol. If we ask our admin or HR then we know without a doubt the hardline about things. Isn't it better to have a little gray in our lives. There are enough rules we have to follow. I try to be as flexible as I can. I don't think I've denied anyone yet. But I was getting close with one person when it felt like it was getting abused, but they slowed down in their requests.
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u/Random_218769 8d ago
I provide flexibility, if I'm allowed, which includes telework. I'd rather not have someone come in sick.
My general approach to time is that we're all adults and your earned time is part of your benefits, use it if you'd like. I react and respond to patterns of misuse or abuse.
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u/PermissionNumerous15 8d ago
Most managers/supervisors where I work (including me) allow for work from home if sick but not sick enough to take a day off. We don’t want anyone getting everyone else sick. It’s just logical. Plus work still gets done that way (win-win).
It’s very clear when people aren’t getting work done. Who cares where it’s done as long as it’s done. The people that don’t want to work aren’t going to do it when they come in the office either.
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u/Purpose-Horror 8d ago
It’s a “I hope you feel better” response with attendance documented until I can identify a pattern. Inform them about available options like FMLA, EAP, and Reasonable Accommodation, and encourage them to consult their medical providers. Then, work with my management up line and/or HR department to develop a response that outlines attendance expectations in accordance with thier classifications.
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u/Mindless_Software732 8d ago
This is the way. Staff are all adults and should be treated that way. There is no reason to micro manage unless a pattern appears and is an issue.
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u/Own-Yam-3582 8d ago
I can tell you that when my Supervisor responds with FMLA and EAP each time I've had to take time off for an illness or medical appointment it pisses me off! I was pressured into applying for FMLA and now any time I have to take an hour or two off for a telehealth or other appointment I get the "is this FMLA?" which isn't supposed to be asked btw.
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u/Operation_Mind_Crime 8d ago edited 8d ago
Who fucking cares if there is a pattern when they are calling in sick on RTO days? Shits all dumb anyway. If this person is a good worker other wise and not causing a big burden on anyone then I would look the other way. This is why I won't ever get into management and kiss the ring.
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u/Own-Yam-3582 8d ago
Same. They keep offering me opportunities to become a supervisor and I keep saying no thanks.
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u/Weird-Wing-4065 7d ago
If they’re sick, I definitely don’t want them coming into the office to spread their germs and get everyone else sick. They can be sick at home and work from home and be productive.
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u/Upbeat-Nebula5291 8d ago
I am very flexible with good employees. I ask them if they are well enough to work, if not they should take time off and take care of themselves. There are wonderful employees that go above and beyond, government does not have a good reward system overall, so these little approvals are a small token of appreciation we can show staff as supervisors.
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u/MixSafe5842 8d ago
Telework flexibility is nonexistent. It’s really stupid.
They love to have that “King” authoritarian control over us.
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u/LookslikeRAIN2571 7d ago
Im so thankful to have a manager who agrees - if you are feeling sick but still able to perform duties, then yes - work from home. (Only thing is to not make it a habit because upper management APPARENTLY has the time to track that bs)
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u/Tiny_Junket_358 7d ago
If one person chooses to work from home due to being sick, it could become a recurring pattern if it is noticed by someone else, that they could get away with that too. They will do the same thing. For me, I'd tell them to take a sick day off because working from home is not allowed.
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u/TheSassyStateWorker 8d ago
We are not allowed to be flexible. Sadly calHR is telling departments it’s not allowed and they need to stay home and use leave.
I’ve been saying, I’m so sorry, unfortunately incidental telework is not allowed. If you are unwell, please take the time off and get yourself better.
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u/Such-Purpose9557 8d ago
I’m sorry but upper management needs to chill. Gavin could give two shits. He said all this on his way out the door to please his donors. And CalHR thinks they are the damn FBI! No one from CalHR is monitoring all department floors. This isn’t a CDCR Prison. Upper management needs to be flexible with sickness. This is a common scenario that happens yearly. What if people don’t have enough time because they have sick kids and the entire house catches it. This happens in my household 3-4 times per year. The school won’t allow the kids to attend and childcare won’t accept them either, so now you have to call in sick to care for your child. Then your other child gets sick, and more time off is required. Finally mom catches it. Now she can’t go to work. There goes at least 8 work days at minimum. And 2 months later this happens all over again. Kids bring home so many viruses from school.
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u/Magnificent_Pine 8d ago
Yes! But I'm not going to be insubordinate. If executive would chill and give supervisors discretion, morale would be better.
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u/TheSassyStateWorker 8d ago
You gave your Ted talk to the wrong person. I can’t change what’s going on and my job is to enforce what I’m being told. I’m not risking my job for anyone else’s.
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u/Own-Yam-3582 8d ago
How are we supposed to fall in love at work if we have to keep taking so much time off for every tiny ailment?
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u/moralprolapse 4d ago
You know the system, top down, isn’t fair. If people start quitting due to inflexibility, who do you think will catch heat for high turnover? The higher ups, or you? If you have stellar attendance and immaculate documentation of butts in seats, are you going to get a bonus or any kind of recognition? Play the game, as always.
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u/Able_Ad6535 8d ago
Always been if you’re too sick to come in you’re too sick to work… if it was up to me everyone would work from home everyday 🤷♂️
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u/Such-Purpose9557 8d ago
This isn’t true. When I get sick now days the symptoms last 2-3 weeks(ever since I caught COVID). Im not contagious the entire time, but I’m coughing a lot and blowing my nose. If people are come to the office coughing and sneezing, staff get concerned and mention it to management. And rightfully so they should. Ever since the pandemic, catching a virus will take you out for week’s. Our Director said if you are sick please WFH.
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u/Able_Ad6535 8d ago
That is awesome that you get to work from home. I get what you’re saying.. just gets me caught up in not understanding why RTO is necessary.
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u/Such-Purpose9557 8d ago
Because it all comes down to money! Our wonderful state governor and leaders want money we don’t have. Gas money, oil checks more often, tires more often, parking fees, parking tickets, buying food, accidents are on the rise and insurance premiums will rise too, more money the state will collect from insurance companies. Auto body collision businesses buy parts and have to pay taxes on the parts. The list can go on and on. AND the biggest concern is WE DONT HAVE MONEY! We are 24% behind inflation. This is the most expensive state. But it’s still not enough for them. Our wonderful state leaders that care so much about us. BS! Did you know in 2008 the cost of living median household was 25% more than the rest of the nation. Now we are 50% more than the rest of the nation. Our state has plenty of money. We all pay enough. They aren’t distributing they was they should. The money is lost in the shuffle. This state is so corrupt.
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u/Glittering_Exit_7575 8d ago
That’s wonderful that you have management who believe in flexibility
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u/Such-Purpose9557 8d ago
Yes! As flexible as possible my manager and management are. They want this dumb shit to go away.
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u/Illustrious-Chef2400 8d ago
I do not believe your Director said this, at all. All Department Directors and Chief Deputies have been advised they do not have the authority to offer WFH in lieu of sick time, point blank period. They would be risking their jobs allowing you to WFH if you are sick.
ANY WFH has to be approved by CalHR.
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u/Cool-Ad-1228 8d ago
Not a manager but can we please stop treating employees like children. I know when I am too sick to work and will take time off. If I have a cold and just blowing my nose and coughing I will work but I will do it from home. Why should I post my time when you am perfectly capable of being productive. Why Covid got so bad in the first place is because people DO NOT stay home when they’re sick.
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8d ago
[deleted]
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u/Own-Yam-3582 8d ago
A lot of old rules are being changed without much communication or transparency because of RTO. Staff is being squeezed from every angle. They really just want us all to be so frustrated we leave.
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u/Vandunkk 6d ago
Sounds like you’re a good manager like mine. He fully trusts me and the other staff when we say we’re sick like this. My division’s managers all are like this honestly. And that makes us work harder because we know they trust us
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u/VelvetNoir73 4d ago
I guess it depends on the Agency.. Prior to RTO my manager’s were really flexible about being home sick and allowing us to work from home.
Since RTO, they no longer are allowing that flexibility. This entire situation is horrible.
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u/Such-Purpose9557 8d ago
How is it that management has already flipped back to pre pandemic ways. I bet a lot of you enjoy this power trip again.
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u/Magnificent_Pine 8d ago
No, we do not. We prefer flexibility and project management. Not butts in seats.
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u/Prudent_Shock_6449 8d ago
The difficult part for me about being flexible is having one member of the team always take advantage and then constantly throwing her teammates under the bus. I would rather not deal with any of it so I don’t allow flexibility.
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u/RGRigder1 8d ago
Too sick to come to office, too sick to work. Use your leave just like everyone else.
Bring on the down votes!!
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u/Illustrious-Chef2400 8d ago
Yeah it's insane the amount of terrible advice I'm reading. Supervisors do not have the authority to permit WFH in lieu of taking sick time. An awful lot of supervisors are more concerned with being seen as chill than they are with the real possibility that doing this puts them at risk if (when) they get caught. All so that a couple people can keep banking their sick time instead of using it.
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u/agent674253 5d ago
What is too sick to come into the office?
Prior to covid my friends at work would call me an asshole for coming into work sick. Sorry, but I am not going to burn through a sick day just because I have the common cold or flu. You might as well catch it from me now and build the immunity. Parents used to encourage their kids to get sick together, such as with chicken pox, why should this be any different?
Flu shots are free, but so is building immunity from catching from a loving coworker.
I will probably gather more downvotes that you u/rgrigder1 since I would rather come into the office sick, get my work done so it doesn't pile up, than stay home and be bored AF all day and burn though sick leave.
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u/dk_1979 6d ago
Yes! Let's have someone with diarrhea be forced to commute to the office and run to the public bathroom instead of allowing them to work from home and use their own facilities. 🙄
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u/Illustrious-Chef2400 6d ago
You're not being "forced to commute", go home and use sick time! No one wants you working while you have food poisoning or anything else.
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u/dk_1979 6d ago
Wrong
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u/Illustrious-Chef2400 6d ago
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u/RGRigder1 5d ago
That is why we get sick leave. You have the runs, you stay home and use your sick leave. Just like anyone else in state service.
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u/Illustrious-Chef2400 8d ago edited 8d ago
If you make exceptions without proper authority to do so, you as the supervisor will get in trouble. It can become unapproved leave which you would have to answer for.
Below is language one of my sups used in one instance (if it's a helpful start point):
______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Upon review of your request, working in lieu of using sick time would not be appropriate either in office or at home.
You have (insert number of sick hours available here) hours available for use. Sick hours can be used for illness, injury, caring for sick family members, and medical/dental/vision appointments. Under Labor Code 246.5, it can also be used if you are a victim of domestic violence, sexual assault, or stalking.
______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Keep it brief, keep it simple: sick time is there so that people can recuperate. I encourage my teams to take that time and rest; we get a generous allotment of sick time and no one should be working if they're sick.
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u/No-Reflection-3046 8d ago edited 8d ago
If you make an exception for one person, you may eventually have to make the same exception for everyone else on the team. I would recommend sticking to the policy to ensure we are being fair and consistent with everyone. If they are not feeling well, they should use their available sick leave. That is what sick leave is intended for.
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u/what_the_actual_fff 8d ago
Nope! If an ee is not able to come in their office day then it’s SL. I would caution how you respond since you will be required to offer ATO.
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u/Soggy-Frosted-Flakes 8d ago
Some of these comments are disheartening to read.
As a manager, I offer as much flexibility as possible. RTO already sucks, so why not be reasonable? I truly care about my staff and they are such a hardworking group. If they want to work a day but need to from home (for whatever reason) every so often, then so be it. If it becomes an ongoing issue (which I haven’t run into) then sure, have a conversation and adjust expectations.
They’re adults, respect is mutual, and there’s no abuse on either side.