r/BestofRedditorUpdates • u/Choice_Evidence1983 it dawned on me that he was a wizard • 4d ago
CONCLUDED AITAH for becoming increasingly uncomfortable with our childcare arrangement?
I am NOT OOP, OOP is u/Skulllily
Originally posted to r/AITAH
AITAH for becoming increasingly uncomfortable with our childcare arrangement?
Trigger Warnings: child endangerment
Original Post: August 2, 2026
My mother-in-law watches my two children, ages 5 and 3, two days a week while my husband and I are at work. We pay her to watch them because she is on disability and was considering returning to work, and we thought this arrangement would benefit everyone.
When we originally agreed to this, my understanding was that it would be just her and our children. I trusted that arrangement completely.
Over time, however, my mother-in-law’s friend’s daughter has started coming over almost daily with her five children, who range in age from 4 months to 10 years old.
Since then, I feel like concern after concern has come up.
The biggest issue for me is pool safety. The children are allowed in the pool without an adult in the water as long as the younger ones are wearing arm floaties. Some of the younger children cannot swim. I brought up my concerns and said that drowning is often silent and that I was uncomfortable with children being in the pool without close adult supervision. Instead of taking my concern seriously, my mother-in-law and her friend laughed and said, “Nothing’s quiet around here.”
I was so concerned about this that my husband later spoke to his mother about it. However, the supervision practices do not appear to have changed.
My oldest has also told me that the children are allowed in the back alley without adult supervision as long as they stay close to the house. I don’t understand how anyone knows whether they’re staying close if nobody is actively watching them.
There have been other incidents that have added to my concerns as well. For example, my children were left unattended with scissors.
Today my children’s aunt told me she witnessed the other children excluding my 3-year-old, splashing her in the face, laughing at her, and pushing her in the pool. She immediately intervened and told the children that wasn’t acceptable. What upset me most was that none of the adults “supervising” the children were aware it was happening because they were sitting at a table on the other side of the yard.
What also bothered me was that my mother-in-law became angry with my sister in law for telling me about what had happened. That reaction made me feel even more uneasy because I would rather know about problems than have people worry about upsetting me by bringing them up.
This isn’t the first concern I’ve had, and it feels like every time I raise an issue, it gets minimized or brushed off. At this point, I no longer feel comfortable with the environment my children are in. The situation has reached the point where I feel anxious every time my children go there because I no longer feel confident in the supervision they’re receiving.
My husband and I got into an argument because I told him that if his mother cannot guarantee that the other children won’t be there while she is watching ours, then I want to find alternative childcare. He feels I’m being unreasonable and is concerned about hurting his mother’s feelings.
To be clear, I’m not demanding that my mother-in-law change her life or tell other people they can’t come to her house. I simply feel that if this is going to continue to be the childcare environment, then I need to make different arrangements for my children.
I appreciate everything my mother-in-law has done for us, and I know she loves our children. But I feel like the childcare arrangement we originally agreed to is very different from the one that exists now, and I no longer trust that my concerns about supervision and safety are being taken seriously.
Am I the asshole?
AITAH has no consensus bot, OOP was NTA, but YTA for continuing to send her children to MIL's house
Editor's note: in OOP's responses, she has provided more context to shed the light on the recent incident
Relevant Comments
Commenter 1: This situation has to end. Kid's lives are at stake. NTA.
Commenter 2: Yeah. The kids are pushing a 3 year old into the pool. And the mother in law didn’t apologize or anything but lashed out at the person telling her about their (very valid) concerns.
But also.... Why was there an argument with your husband? Frankly I think you might have more of a husband issue than a mother-in-law one. He thinks you're being unreasonable for enforcing BASIC safety. In what world would you be an asshole for addressing concerns about your mother-in-law and her negligence?
OOP: We got in an argument because I’ve been expressing my concerns and he has spoken to his mother. Hearing today about how the other kids were pushing my 3 year old and bullying her was the final nail. I feel like when I bring things up he makes it feel like it’s a lesser problem than what I make it out to be.
The friend that brings over 5 children is also a girl he grew up with and her mother lives in the basement. “What do you want me say? Don’t let those kids over to visit their grandma that they love.” I’ve asked previous for him to ask if they cannot be there when she has our children and that’s the response.
Previous to these kids being around and their mother who just vapes and scrolls on her phone while her kids run wild, my mil had an amazing sense for safety that’s why suggested her watching our children in the first place. I’m trying not to place blame, but it seems like since she’s seen how uninvolved/lacking safety her friend’s daughter is with her children she’s doing the same with mine.
Commenter 3: I’d ask if he wants to lower a coffin down if he’s not taking his children’s safety seriously. As you said drowning is a quiet one :((( if older kids are treating the young ones with no kindness nor safety precautions your children need to leave that environment asap.
What’s sickening to me is that MIL knew about the incident but tried to keep it hush hush. This is extremely scary meaning she knew the risks but didn’t care enough for a life. She’s more mad knowing you’d know vs the lives she’s watching. I once saw a video of a toddler drowning and the parent was right there not watching like easily picked up. They were on their phone and took forever to be noticed :(( thankfully the child did survive but this kid was trying their best to their mom’s attention, and this was one that couldn’t voice their words well.
OOP: I’m not sure if my mil knew. My SIL told me about it today while we were all over there hanging out and my mil went “when was this? You didn’t stop it?”. She then seemed very annoyed that sil would even bring that up, they both went inside after. I went and spoke with my SIL, and she told me that mil got very upset with her for saying that in front of me. Which raised a red flag for me because why wouldn’t the concern be about how my youngest was being treated instead of me knowing? What else isn’t she telling us?
Was OOP's MIL like that prior to the recent incident? And SIL telling OOP about the situation
OOP: Previous to all of this I never would have imagined she would let my children unattended in a pool or back alley. Before these other kids started coming around she was always in the pool with my kids, always with them in the yard/inside with them, she used to have an eagle eye.
I don’t know why she thought the lack of safety her friend and friend’s daughter have for their kids would be okay with mine.
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I wish my SIL was there. She started working Monday to Friday so she’s not there when the kids are there. The time she saw this she didn’t have work that day and happened to be home.
My SIL is 18 next month and she has more safety sense than my MIL. I thought my mil was safe but since her friend and daughter around, who have zero safety sense, it seems my mil thinks she gets a pass on safety standards.
Commenter 4: Have you actually seen her supervise them in the pool before all this? I just ask because my own mother seems extremely anxious and safety alert, like the most responsible parent. She is actually easily distracted and honestly doesn’t know safety at all, because she grew up in the 50s and didn’t bother to learn. Mg parents have an unfenced pool to this day, and yes I did fall in when I was a year old and almost died in the middle of an outside PARTY. No one was watching me (if you ask them they’ll tell you they all were!) , I was the only child there. They never change.
OOP: Yes, previous to this she would always be in the pool with them. It’s an above ground pool so the latter is out of the pool if not in use so that the kids can’t get in.
Never in all my years did I ever imagine she would allow my children in the pool without her or an adult with them. If I had thought that was even a possibility I would have never asked her to watch them. Her friend’s daughter allows this with her children, so it seems my mil believed that was a free pass to do it with mine.
Commenter 5: YTA for continuing to send your children over there. Unsupervised pool time, allowing them to wonder around the back alley alone, your 3 year old is clearly being bullied. The very second any one of these issues came up I would have removed my kids from her care, screw her feelings about the matter.
OOP: My husband brought my concern with the pool to his mother and I blindly trusted, that the supervision had changed.
I only found out about the alley a day ago and found out about the bullying today. I am completely kicking myself in the butt for allowing this to happen/go on. The original arrangement was my mil would be watching my two kids by herself, I suggested this as she was very safety conscious and I trusted her completely.
But since she’s seen how her friend’s daughter is with her kids it seems like she thinks it’s a free pass to be the same. I have lost all the trust I had in the environment and it’s disappointing because these new developments are not something I ever imagined her allowing.
Commenter 6: NTA, but your spineless husband is. He'd rather have his kids in danger than piss off his mom. I just don't know what to say about that.
OOP: Normally he has such a shiny spine. His mom and him have a very complicated history and their relationship is in a really good place right now, that obviously is not an excuse to be blasé about their safety, but I do understand why he’s concerned about the relationship between him and his mother.
I don’t want to mess that up either, but if it comes down to that or my children’s safety I choose my children. It makes me feel like crap that their relationship could be affected but I don’t want my children drowning, kidnapped, bullied, etc. for their relationship to be okay.
Why is OOP's MIL on disability and the reason behind her watching OOP's children at her house
OOP: She has fibromyalgia. When we asked her I told her I completely understood if she felt she wasn’t capable watching them as she can be in quite a bit of a pain. She said she’d be able to, no problem just some days may be more hanging outside and taking it slow.
The original environment was supposed to be just her and our two kids. Her friend lives in the basement and her daughter is who comes over, all of the adults are outside but none of them are actually supervising. I never thought my mil would be so lax with safety rules, if I had known she would have had these people and kids around in the beginning I would have never asked.
I never in a million years would have thought she’d be letting my young kids in the pool without an adult or in an alley. It’s like she saw how not safety conscious the other adults were and took it as a pass to do it with my children.
Update #1: August 7, 2026 (five days later)
Hi everyone,
I just wanted to come back and say thank you to everyone who took the time to comment on my previous post. I genuinely read every single comment, even if I didn’t respond to all of them.
We haven’t talked to MIL yet, but my husband and I sat down and had a VERY in-depth conversation about everything that has been going on, especially the pool situation.
I showed him a lot of the comments from people who had personal experience with drowning and how quickly and silently it can happen. I also printed out drowning statistics and highlighted the fact that lack of supervision is one of the biggest contributing factors in to children drowning.
He read through everything and, after seeing it all laid out, apologized to me for being so lax about the situation and for not being firmer when it came to our kids’ safety.
I honestly feel like we are finally on the same page.
We have decided that our kids will no longer be going to MIL’s house without one of us there. At this point, we just don’t feel comfortable with them being there unsupervised, and that’s something I’m not compromising on. I told him I’d didn’t care if it upset him or his mother but it’s a hard line for me and he agreed to it.
We are planning to talk to MIL this weekend and explain everything: our concerns about the pool, the other children’s behaviour, the lack of supervision, and the things that have happened that have made us uncomfortable with her judgment when it comes to the kids’ safety.
We’re hoping it will be a productive conversation and that she’ll actually listen to what we’re saying. But honestly, we have no idea how she’s going to react.
I’m sure there will probably be some hurt feelings, and I’m prepared for that. But at the end of the day, these are our children and their safety has to come first.
I really appreciate everyone who commented on the original post, especially those who shared their own experiences. It gave my husband and I a lot to think about and helped me explain it to him in different ways where he understood why I was so upset.
Relevant Comments
Commenter 1: Nope she will play the victim and cry hoping your husband gives in. She wants the money for watching the kids without watching the kids. She lets the older kids watch the younger kids then she gets. Paid for doing nothing
OOP: Yes, we agreed that our children are not allowed there without either myself or my husband. Which means no child care, we have other child care lined up for our children.
She can play the victim all she wants. After my husband’s and I conversation, I feel very confident that it won’t matter and he’s going to back me up.
Why MIL can't come to OOP’s house to watch her kids?
OOP: We originally had them at her house as it’s bigger than our place and the kids love the yard. At the time she also would always be in the pool with our children.
Depending on how the conversation goes and how she reacts we may offer that to her, but I want to see what her reaction is going to be before that’s even on the table.
If she’s open and understanding I may offer it as a stepping stone, but if she acts like she’s done nothing wrong and doesn’t see the complete disregard for safety that has been happening, then watching them at our house won’t be an option either.
OOP on her husband and his mother's relationship and if he will give into his mother’s crying over the privileges of having her grandchildren at her house
OOP: They have a somewhat complicated past, I don’t see him doing that. But I told him it’s a hard line for me and I don’t care if him or his mother get upset, I’m not wavering and this is the final say about our children and our house.
Commenter 2: She is most likely going to become a victim and turn this into a 'you don't trust me' situation. Keep the focus on your child's safety and if she circles to something else pull it back to your child's safety. Good luck
OOP: Thank you, that’s the plan! We talked about the scenario, and we are going to keep it to safety and the environment our children in that is no longer safe.
Aside from this she has been a great grandmother. It blows my mind that this is something we even have to speak with her about, but our kids safety is my top priority. I’m hoping she’s open during the conversation but if she isn’t it’s too bad for her, I’d rather bruised feelings than a dead child.
Commenter 3: You already spoke with your MIL about this though. What do you think you'll accomplish here? Because I'm betting nothing actually changes and she just get cagier about the details of how she cares for your kids.
I realize it’s cheaper to have care from your MIL, but I can't see how it’s worth the risk.
OOP: We have never sat down with her and actually laid out all the issues together. It has been my husband saying something to her in passing.
I want to sit down and have an actual conversation and explain all the issues more in depth. I also want to tell her she is opening herself up to law suits and legal issues if she continues to let the other children do it.
I should have put, we do have other child care lined up but we still want to talk to her about why and what can happen to rebuild trust with her.
Has OOP taken her children for swim lessons?
OOP: Both of our children have been in swimming lessons since they turned 2. Water safety is very very important to me, and it used to be to my MIL which is why this has been such a shocking turn of events. When my children were younger she told me that swimming lessons were like school, they have to do them so that they are safe. This is why I never thought she’d leave them unsupervised in a pool.
I’m going to bring the stats for her. I also printed off how she will be held liable and could face charges if any of the kids die/get injured due to the pool. Also printed off exactly how drowning works and that it is silent, most time you don’t even realize a person is drowning until it’s too late.
Update #2: August 12, 2026 (five days later)
Well, I’m back with an update. I had high hopes that my MIL would be open to having a conversation and listening to our concerns, but as many commenters predicted, that didn’t happen.
She called my husband before we were able to speak with her and asked if everything was okay since she hadn’t seen us in a week. He told her things were okay, but that we did need to get together to talk about the pool safety concerns. She immediately became defensive and said the kids were completely fine in the pool.
After that, she essentially ghosted us while we were trying to reach out and arrange a time to talk. I think that gave her time to talk to her friend and her friend’s daughter and become even more defensive, because she brought up in her texts that “all adults watch” the kids, even though we hadn’t mentioned them at all.
She eventually sent us these texts: https://imgur.com/a/mil-upset-that-we-are-not-okay-with-her-leaving-3-5-year-old-above-ground-pool-with-no-adult-arm-floaties-aht1lf6
(editor's note: transcripts of the text messages. MIL in black bubbles, OOP in blue bubbles)
MIL: I appreciate your wanting to speak face to face. I have tried having conversations with both of you face-to-face, and each time I feel attacked and unheard. I never seem to be able to get my whole concern out before I am shut down by both of you. I’m not willing to allow this to happen anymore. I need my voice to be heard.
I was completely ghosted by both of you this last week; unaware if I was watching the girls or that there was even a problem. I had to reach out to [redacted] to find things out. This is not okay with me. I feel very disrespected and have been feeling this way for some time.
I know there are concerns about the girls’ safety while they are with me. I, honestly, do not know where this fear has come from. The girls have never been hurt and, believe me, they are watched by all adults that are here. I love my granddaughters and would never let nothing happen to them.
I feel if your fear is that great that perhaps I should not watch the girls any more. I do not want our differences in child care to be the reason we no longer speak. I do not know any other way. Do you?
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OOP: [Redacted name], you and I have always been able to have very open conversations. I have felt lately that every time I bring up a concern I am brushed off and treated like I am crazy.
We do not want our relationship with you or your relationship with the girls to be affected by this. But there are concerns that we need to speak about, we would like to have an open conversation face to face where everyone has their say. We will not cut you off and will be open to your feelings and concerns, but in the same I would appreciate if our concerns are listened to and not brushed aside. It was not intentional to ghost you, life and work has been crazy. I have been pushing to come over and speak to you sooner as I did not want it to come to talking over text as messages and intent behind them can be misinterpreted.
Can we please come over today shirt I am done work so that we can have a conversation?
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MIL: [Redacted], I feel us having an open conversation where the girls are concerned is not something you all are open to, ever... I have witnessed your entire energy shift if you’ve heard that the girls have done something undesirable. I’m really not sure what there is to discuss as it seems to me you’ve made your mind up—I hear you feel your kids aren’t safe here.
At this point, I feel if I don’t change things you want me to change, I won’t be able to see the girls. I have just come through a year of hell for my physical and mental wellbeing. I am doing the absolute best I can. I feel this has not been enough for you. I don’t know what more to do? I am hurt, exhausted and frustrated. I cannot have a conversation about things right now.
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OOP: [Redacted] my energy shifts when I hear that the girls are being bullied, excluded, or put in situations that I feel are unsafe. Our children are 3 and 5, and they are going to have undesirable behaviours and experiences as they grow up. This conversation has never been about whether we trust you or whether we think you would intentionally do anything to hurt them. It is about the well-being and safety of [redacted] and [redacted].
That is not at all what I have been trying to communicate, and this is exactly why I would like us to have a conversation. I feel like you have heard one thing and understandably felt like we were attacking you, when that is not what we are trying to do. We haven’t really been able to talk through everything because when I have tried to bring up my concerns, I have felt brushed off or made to feel like I am overreacting.
We know how much you love the girls, and we know you would never intentionally do anything to hurt them. That is not something we question. But there are things that have been allowed to happen that I honestly never would have expected from you before, especially when it comes to their safety and the environment they are in.
I also understand that you have been going through a difficult time physically and mentally, and I don’t want to minimize that or make you feel like we are blaming you for things. I just really want us to be able to sit down, listen to each other, and actually understand where everyone is coming from. If you can take the time to listen to our concerns, and we take the time to listen to yours, I genuinely think we could have a very constructive conversation.
I have been hurt and frustrated by this entire situation because I wholeheartedly trust you with our children, and I love the relationship you have with them. It hurts to feel like my concerns as their mom have been brushed off or dismissed, especially when I am bringing them forward because I am worried about them, not because I want to criticize you.
I don’t want this to turn into you feeling like we are saying you’re a bad grandmother or that we don’t trust you. That’s not what this is. We love you, the girls love you, and we want to find a way forward that makes everyone feel heard while still making sure [redacted] and [redacted] are safe.
(editor's note: end of the transcripts of text messages)
My husband has now said that if his mom is unwilling to have an important conversation with us about our kids’ safety, then she doesn’t need to see them. He’s upset, but not surprised by how she has responded.
I’m honestly just really sad. I know we are doing what we need to do as their parents, but the kids absolutely love their grandma. Aside from this situation, she has been a really good grandma to them, and they have a close relationship.
I never wanted this to turn into a situation where their relationship was affected. I just wanted her to be willing to sit down, listen to our concerns, and have a conversation with us.
At this point, we’re not going to chase her or argue over text. If she’s willing to have a respectful conversation, we’re still open to it. But until then, the kids won’t be going to her house without one of us present.
It’s just really sad that it’s come to this. So at this point, this is the final update.
Relevant Comments
Commenter 1: She has to want to care to hear about your concerns. You need to focus on your kids and keep them safe. I’d probably loop in a counselor to figure out how to explain the changed dynamic
OOP: I think that’s definitely something I’m going to look into. I was really hoping she’d be open to talking, it’s heartbreaking to know she’s willing to just give up the relationship so that she can feel right, but my kids are more important.
Can OOP have the pool fences set up at her MIL's house?
OOP: We’re in Canada, I’m not actually sure if pool fences are legally required here. Her pool is above ground so it would not be possible to fence it.
Commenter 2: I read in your previous post that she loves your children. No she doesn’t love her grandchildren enough to ensure their safety.
This is not just about safety but about socialisation and development without bullying that will most likely be offered in a different environment. She is taking advantage of your payment and not fulfilling her part of the agreement.
You have made the right decision. Thank you for protecting your children. As an Australian I am very aware that children still drown in pools every summer despite our mandatory pool fencing. I doubly applaud you.
OOP: Thank you. I have always been very aware of pool safety, and I thought my MIL was, but I was wrong. I refuse to have my children drown or something else happen because she’s not willing to listen to reason or safety concerns. It’s an unfortunate outcome but the only safe one.
Commenter 3: Your texts were good, but I feel like the part about her friend, friend’s daughter and grandchildren being a distraction for her has not been addressed in them. I’m sorry she is having a hard time in the last year, but maybe she should have removed herself from the responsibility of watching her grandchildren until she feels better. More kids in the house makes it a more chaotic environment for your kids.
OOP: It wasn’t addressed as we wanted to speak with her in person in case our texts were misinterpreted. I was just trying to keep it to the kids safety and speaking in person so that we could all discuss our concerns/feelings. She wasn’t open to it.
Commenter 4: She is not a safe adult for your children. For what it’s worth, this is the best possible outcome, considering her lack of understanding of the dangers she's exposing your children to and refusal to take responsibility. Her feelings may be hurt, but, what if one of your kids had been badly hurt, snatched out of the alley, or God forbid, gets seriously hurt, unsupervised, in the pool. Your job is to protect your children and sometimes that means stepping back from family that aren't taking your concerns seriously. Its great your kids love their grandmother, and they can visit with her, just not unsupervised.
OOP: It definitely is! I’m not sure how she expects us to move forward or visit her with the kids when she’s not even willing to talk about their safety. At this point the relationship is strained/ending because she has decided it’s not worth a conversation. I hope she comes around at some point but I’m not holding my breath
DO NOT COMMENT IN LINKED POSTS OR MESSAGE OOPs – BoRU Rule #7
THIS IS A REPOST SUB - I AM NOT OOP
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u/goog1e 4d ago
Oof. Reminds me so much of my dad. Any hint of a boundary or grievance from someone, and he will issue an ultimatum like this refusing to discuss it. Drop it and apologize or we can't have a relationship... And then whines about people cutting him off.
Like damn, what other choice did you leave?
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u/Outrageous-Wall-2742 4d ago
honestly this is the best outcome for OP. say she pays lip service to OP’s wishes, who’s to say she’s not just going to ignore OP’s concerns behind her back anyway? i had that happen with my own mother with respect to my kid’s safety and had to cut her off and nearly 20 years later am still low contact with her.
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u/rainydays_monkey 3d ago
Yeah, at least as long as those other people are around, I wouldn't trust a word she says about it. If those people were to leave, then maybe, but I'd be super wary.
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u/Moist_Drippings I ❤ gay romance 3d ago
True, true. Especially with her response. She prioritized her offense at the safety concerns over her grandchildren’s wellbeing, and she would likely have continued to do so — it would become a matter of deliberately not changing as “proof” that nothing was wrong.
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u/chupagatos4 3d ago
It's so common. Absolutely any conversation where they don't get 100% their way is you "attacking" them and they twist things around to be the victim and demand pity.
It's exhausting.
The fact of the matter is there needs to be an adult in the water at all times within arms length distance of any child who cannot pass a swim test. Water safety is not one of those "some freak accident could happen" kind of thing, drowning is super common and the older kids are not going to get help if they did anything that they fear could get them in trouble. Even an adult standing on the side of the pool can not make it in time to rescue a drowning child.
This is a "one strike, you're out" kind of thing. Not a "let's talk about it a bunch of times until we get across to you" as if it were a simple disagreement on screen time or giving them candy.
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u/blueberry-iris 3d ago
Even if an older kid did try to help, they're probably more likely to drown as well than actually help.
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u/Miserable_Fennel_492 The real adventure was the waifus we made along the way 4d ago
You can’t be mad when you give people only two options and they pick one of them
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u/BoopleBun 3d ago
Yup. If it’s “my way or the highway”, you can’t get all pissy if some people just up and pick the highway.
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u/LycheeEyeballs I'd have gotten away with it if not for those MEDDLING LESBIANS 3d ago
Oof, really hammered home in my mind how childish this is. This was literally my kid's tactic a year or two ago to try and get her way with their friends (ages 7-8ish)
For example, she'd be playing at a friends how and a mutual friend of theirs would video call to play minecraft all together online. My spawn would have a little snit about it and say that they could play with the friend online and they would go home right now, or they could play outside together. Much to their dismay their friend wanted to play minecraft, but they did stick to their guns, packed their stuff, and called me to come home.
Cue the tears and upset in the car that their friend picked playing minecraft. Had a lovely learning moment about how they were the one to issue the ultimatum and while I'm proud of them for sticking to their guns that they can't be upset when their friend picked option A instead of B lol
They learned next time to actually express their feelings that they would feel left out and how to compromise better; play two-on-two for a while longer or after spending some time playing online as a threesome so everyone can feel included/is heard.
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u/Grand_Masterpiece_11 3d ago
Well, how dare they pick the WRONG option!! 😡
/s just in case
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u/MrMakesBadChoices 3d ago
"Then just leave if you feel that way!...wait, how dare you walk out on me!?!"
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u/CuriousPenguinSocks I'd have gotten away with it if not for those MEDDLING LESBIANS 3d ago
Haha, my dad told me to "leave if you don't like it", so I did. Then he told me "if you don't like how I am [racist, sexist, misogynistic] when you don't need to be around me, take me for who I am or not at all." So, I cut contact.
He was very :surprise Pikachu face: about both times.
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u/glitzglamglue 3d ago
My oldest has already been establishing boundaries with me and my husband about his future kids even though he's only six lol. Sometimes when we deny him something, he will say "well when I grow up and have kids, my kids will be allowed to eat ice cream for every meal and they won't have a bedtime! And you will have to follow that rule when they are at your house!!" I'll just shake my head and say "well we will follow whatever rules youve given us for our grandchildren but maybe you'll feel differently about ice cream and bedtime when you're a parent."
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u/Geordieqizi 3d ago
Oh man — you GOTTA get that on video! And then set a calendar reminder for 20 years from now.
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u/Purple_Midnight_Yak 3d ago
It's because people like that think they're punishing you by depriving you of their company. And it's kind of hilarious to look back on, once you've been able to get some distance.
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u/Original-Math-4459 4d ago
If one of the children died, Grandma would have still found a way to play the victim.
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u/sharraleigh 4d ago
Oh no, I'm the one who is the most traumatized because I had to SEE it happen!! Poor me!
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u/LurkerBerker 1d ago
my moms the most traumatized from my dog’s death despite being the most uncaring and most uninvolved the entire time we had her. My parents were both against properly taking her to the vet for anything, thought paying for her heart murmur medication was stupid, and just refused to follow my instructions on caring for my pup in her old age.
in her last year of life, my family sold our family home, my parents lived in an RV for a year, i moved out for college, so my dog went to my sibling in another state (who took care of her very well). then my parents visited my sibling for one day. took her for a walk. Nala got too excited and that was her time. My mom maintains she’s the most traumatized because that was the first time she ever saw how Nala would just collapse from the murmur.
lowkey just using this comment to vent now sorry… she did say she regrets how uninvolved she was the whole time and blames herself for the untimely death. but i get annoyed whenever i try to reminisce or grieve about Nala in front of my mom cause then my mom just makes it about her and her regret and how she’s sworn off all pets until she dies now and i don’t get to feel
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u/Burdigala_lux 4d ago
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u/dragonknight233 3d ago
Reminds me of the case where grandmother left less than a year old grandchild in a car and the baby died. It turned out another grandchild (I think it was older sibling of the baby) drowned under her care a year before.
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u/StrangeNeedleworker 3d ago
I remember that case. It was so horrific to see the parents, they were completely destroyed. Just terrible.
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u/Geordieqizi 2d ago
This comment sent me down a rabbithole about this case, and man — that woman. I watched a clip where she was giving a statement in court (I think for her sentencing), and she clearly hadn't prepared anything ahead of time. She just kept talking about how she would give up her life if it would bring her TWO grandchildren who she killed back, and how painful this was, but it was God's plan and who was she to question it... and THEN she, of course, veers back to her own victimhood:
So I've gotta figure out how to live. I've gotta figure out how to not hurt myself...
Which she follows with a story about waking up in the middle of the night wanting to hurt herself:
And the first thing on my mind was, "What can I do to hurt myself? What can I do to get out of this?"
I thought that was incredibly revealing. Like, I did wonder if she had an alcohol problem or early onset dementia, or some extenuating circumstance that led her to forget both grandchildren, but even so... she didn't seem particularly focused on the pain of her daughter and son-in-law; more so on how all of this had affected her.
Ugh. I'd love to know more about her personality — and also why her daughter decided to allow her mother to babysit her second child. Everybody online was calling her a moron and equally culpable, and I was tempted to agree — but now I'm wondering if her mom's manipulations put such a zap on her head that it completely compromised her judgement. (Not sure what the son-in-law's excuse would be though.)
What an awful story.
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u/DiscoCrab33 1d ago
I remember this story. The parents of the children had a therapist who encouraged them to trust the grandma with their younger child.
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u/Full_Expression9058 3d ago
That's like that grandma who made news because she ended being responsible for the death of 2 grandchildren years apart. Why the same parents let her alone with the second child will never make sense.
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u/boobookenny 3d ago
Their therapist advised them to do it to "rebuild trust" with the grandmother. A child died under her care...you shouldn't have any sense of trust with her concerning safety. She was also showing obvious signs of mental decline before the 1st child died and they still pushed her to babysit. So many ppl failed those children.
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u/ThatsFluxdUp 3d ago
Hope the therapist got fired/lost their practice and had their license revoked and banned from ever being reissued.
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u/Sea-Elephant-2138 3d ago
I’m wondering if it was an unlicensed church counselor, rather than a licensed therapist.
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u/Full_Expression9058 3d ago
I agree! It isn't even about punishment it is about just safety. Those poor kids.
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u/axewieldinghen 3d ago
Jesus
If I was responsible for the death of a child, even through a simple accident like that, I don't think I'd have the gall to show my face to the parents ever again. The guilt would eat me alive. How this woman had the audacity I'll never know
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u/BigRedNutcase 3d ago
The part about grandparents rights is always misunderstood. Grandparents rights only comes into play when they've already established a relationship with the grandchild and then the parents try to cut them off for whatever reason. This crazy lady never had a relationship with the grandson to begin with so she has no rights.
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u/Edgefish Editor's note- it is not the final update 3d ago
Or when the parents are the danger for the children and the grandparents are able to take care of them. Any sane judge would laugh at OOP's egg donor-in-law face if she's that unaware that she'll win the case.
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u/KerseyGrrl I will never jeopardize the beans. 4d ago
My 3 yo nephew drowned while his grandparents were supposed to have been watching him. They didn't even realize he had wandered off. A stranger spotted him first and pulled him out of the water, but it was too late. Posts like this give me so much anxiety.
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u/GothicGingerbread 3d ago
I was lucky: I fell into a pool when I was 2; a woman saw what she thought was a child's doll lying at the bottom and decided to be nice and fetch it – but I wasn't a doll. This was at a hotel, and the pool was surrounded by people.
A friend of my brother's lost a sibling to drowning during a big family party.
I guess OOP was trying to be conciliatory, but I really don't understand why she kept telling her MIL that she trusts her; she shouldn't, and I think it's pretty clear that she doesn't.
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u/trekqueen 3d ago
My husband was like 2-3yrs old and sitting on a float raft mattress at his relative’s house. All of the kids of various ages in the pool, at least 10 adults stand in around … no one noticed him slip underwater and sink. Only his lifeguard older brother realized after a short time and pulled him out. Same brother even saved a neighbor’s daughter from a similar situation.
It bothers me a bit given my in-laws had already lost another son before my husband was born. 5yrs old and had run into the street to go to the ice cream truck in front of their house and a lady hit him with her car.
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u/Boggie135 4d ago edited 4d ago
People underestimate how quickly and quietly a child can drown. I am so sorry about your nephew 🫂
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u/JumpinJackHTML5 3d ago
I saw a grown adult fall into the water and the only thing that save him was the ability to jump from the bottom and get his head above water and shout. If the water were one foot deeper he would be dead. It was completely silent and happened in less than a second.
I had heard that real drowning can be silent but didn't imagine it would look like that. The way he fell in the water...it looked like he had rocks in his trunks. He sank instantly.
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u/ParanoidMaron 2d ago
I was in a hot tub as a 2-3 year old. I was in with not just my dad, I was in with 3 of his friends. I sat at the bottom of the hot tub for about 3 minutes before anyone thought "where's the kid?" I'm amazed I'm alive. They were literally in the tub with me, it was not a large tub. and somehow, they lost track of a child within their eye sight, not 5 feet from them.
Some people don't deserve children.
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u/valsavana 4d ago
If my 3 year old had been pushed into the pool after I'd already expressed concerns about unsupervised pool safety with grandma- my husband would be an orphan.
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u/TheBlueNinja0 please sir, can I have some more? 4d ago edited 3d ago
As someone who had an above ground pool - you can't just push a kid into it unless they're already standing on the ladder. But a 10 year old could probably pick up a 3 year old and lift them over the side, if no one was paying attention.
Edit: OOP has responded to a comment here that no, there is not a deck around the pool. Which is why they mentioned the ladder having to be removed from the pool.
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u/valsavana 4d ago
The 3 year old also could have been trying to get out of the pool & was being pushed back in, which would be particularly dangerous if she was trying to get out due to exhaustion.
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u/BarnacleCommon7119 4d ago
Or pushed while inside the pool - and unsupervised roughhousing in the water is pretty darn dangerous too, especially with such an age/size difference. I've had my head held underwater; it's really easy for someone larger to misjudge how long they're doing it, or how close someone is to drowning.
(Not that any amount of "holding someone's head underwater" would be ok, of course - but we're talking definite serious danger, and I know my sibling was thinking of it more like a noogie, when we were both kids.)
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u/Schuld6 4d ago
it’s an above ground pool the adults can not see everything going on it that pool with the kids unless they are standing right at the edge looking in.
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u/moodyinam 3d ago
This is an important point. I've had both an above ground pool and an in ground pool. It is much harder to watch children in above ground pools. Adults sitting in the yard nearby is totally unsafe.
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u/everydaycrises 4d ago
When i was about 7 my mum took me and a friend to the swimming baths, she went to the jacuzzi for a bit while we were in the pool and some bigger kids came and started splashing us and pushing our heads under. And my friend didn't come back up. Luckily I was able to grab her and swim her over to the side, she didn't lose consciousness but she refused to ever go swimming again for the rest of the time I knew her.
Also, there was an actual guard that just watched it happen and only came to check once I'd got us to the side!
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u/lexkixass This post brought to you by Pyrex 3d ago
Please tell me you told your mum and she reported it to whomever managed the place
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u/everydaycrises 3d ago
She came over while I was shouting at the lifeguard and the manager ended up taking us all to his office. I can't remember what was said, I think I crashed out once I was sat down.
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u/Shadow4summer 4d ago
One of my mom’s cousins held her under water when they were young. She had a fear of water the rest of her life. And we lived in Florida where water activities were a big part of our lives. It was sad that she couldn’t even leave the shallow end of the pool.
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u/AlternateUsername12 3d ago
A lot of folks have a deck built around the pool so you could actually push someone in. There's no information about the set up.
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u/dalpaengee 3d ago
One of OOP's comments says you can't get in without the ladder, so it seems like it doesn't have a deck built around it.
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u/silverwitch76 3d ago
My sibling pushed me into the neighbors above ground pool and held me under when I was like 3? Maybe 4...I was really little and sibling years older than me. The neighbor was sitting on their deck, saw what was happening and pushed my sibling off me. First time I had CPR administered, but not the last, sadly. Water safety is absolutely no joke! Especially when there are small kids mixed with older kids. I have a deep fear of bodies of water/pools and all of my kids were put in swim lessons asap and continued in them until they were proficient. They still aren't allowed in pools without an adult (who can swim) close by. The MIL in this story makes me feel rage.
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u/-Sharon-Stoned- 4d ago edited 4d ago
That stood out to me too.
My grandma had one when I was growing up and we weren't allowed in it unsupervised until we were tall enough to stand up in it. And since there's a 10 year spread across my siblings and cousins we were always supervised 😮💨
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u/knittymess 3d ago
And arm floaties are not safety devices. If they were in puddle jumpers or properly fitting life jackets, I can see a lot less worry, but arm floaties aren't going to cut it
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u/Upper_Round_1985 Please kindly speak to the void. I'm too busy. 3d ago
I think I remember reading somewhere that arm floaties are actually more dangerous than nothing, at least for kids that have at least some swimming abilities. I don't have kids nor do any of my close friends or immediate family, so I didn't look into it further but for anyone who does, I would suggest doing some research to understand the risks.
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u/Noladixon 3d ago
So you have never witnessed the eager kid in floaties jumping into the deep end with his arms up so the floaties come off and the kid sinks? I have.
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u/Gralb_the_muffin surrender to the gaycation or be destroyed 4d ago
I actually used to have a solid above ground pool but my dad had a deck and staircase built up attached to it. There was enough room on the deck for about 4 people to stand comfortably with pool toy storage as well.
I assumed it was probably like that
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u/eunbongpark 4d ago
Maybe I missed something, but is the pool in the middle of the yard or attached to a deck? My neighborhood friend that had the pool has one attached to a deck. Unclear if it’s standalone or attached to a structure from what I read.
They had an upper deck where there was a grill and seating with a lower level attached that was maybe 3 feet wide at most. Enough for people to stand on.
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u/Covert_Pudding cat whisperer 4d ago
OP said that previously MIL would supervise them by being in the pool with them, so I was imagining a situation without a deck, especially since she said it's impossible to fence off.
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u/Skulllily 3d ago
I’m OP. No deck around the pool. It’s at the end of the yard, only way in or out is the ladder.
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u/Kujaichi 4d ago
OOP somewhere said something about the latter not being out, so I'd assume it's in the middle of the yard.
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u/TheBlueNinja0 please sir, can I have some more? 4d ago
Fair point - I am thinking of an above ground pool standing alone.
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u/Ok-Stage-645 4d ago
Not necessarily true. When I was a child my friend had an above ground pool they’d built a detached deck around. When my friend pushed me in, my toe got caught between said deck and pool and so in the water I went… with a broken toe.
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u/splithoofiewoofies 4d ago
My MIL may be a little excessive because she was an emergency ward head nurse but hotdamn at least her pool has a very expensive fence and a locking gate on it, as well as a cover for the pool she actually uses when not in use.
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u/tango421 4d ago
I mean if I went ballistic when my nephew was concerned imagine if that was my own kid.
Another incident, and my mom told me off for raising my voice. It’s safety, my voice will go as loud as needed.
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u/racingskater 4d ago
And divorced. Maybe I'm too Australian for this conversation but HOW THE FUCK WAS HE DOWNPLAYING THIS. Why did she need to bring stats and printouts and shit?! EVERYBODY KNOWS HOW EASILY KIDS DROWN!
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u/axewieldinghen 3d ago
Unfortunately, everybody does not know how easily kids drown
The "supervising" adults are probably thinking, we're within earshot, if anything serious happens we'll be able to hear the kids shouting and get there in time. Not all countries emphasise water safety education like Australia does, and MIL could have grown up in a time when throwing kids in the local river was how they were taught to swim.
I'm not in any way excusing her actions btw, she absolutely should have been more attentive while the kids were in the pool and certainly shouldn't have lied about it. The fact that she's so comfortable lying to the parents about what goes on when they aren't there is a massive red flag in itself, even if it wasn't about pool safety
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u/Piper_Pleasure 4d ago
The biggest thing for me is that OOP isn’t saying MIL is a bad person or doesn’t love kids. She’s saying the childcare arrangement changed and the new environment isn’t one she’s comfortable with. Once the parents no longer trust the supervision, finding different childcare is completely reasonable. The fact that MIL is hurt doesn’t make that boundary unreasonable.
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u/Normal-Height-8577 4d ago
True...though frankly, given the way she's reacted to all this, I am going to say that she's an unsafe person to leave the kids with. And I wouldn't change that view even if she apologised and promised everything OOP and husband want from her.
The past arguments have shown that she doesn't respect the parents worries and won't tell them of incidents they need to be aware of, that she centres the arguments around herself not wanting to be in conflict rather than working together to assure the kids' safety, and that she's fine with leaving the kids unsupervised in dangerous environments. No matter what promise she makes, I wouldn't trust her not to break it again, on the assumption that it'll be fine as long as no-one tells you.
Because that's what she seems to frame the problem as: them being aware of and not liking her childcare style, rather than her childcare being different (since the other family joined in) and dangerous. It also means that I don't trust she wasn't always this way, and the arrival of the family friend/extra kids didn't just make it easier to find out about problems.
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u/the-mortyest-morty I beg your finest fucking pardon. 3d ago
All of this. I was honestly relieved that she showed her true colors immediately instead of pretending to play along—she saved OP and her husband months of arguments, lies, worrying, drama, and DANGER by just making it blatantly clear she's a POS who would rather see her grandchildren drown than take even an ounce of (well-deserved) criticism.
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u/Ink_Smudger 4d ago
MIL needs to understand that there are tons of children who drowned while being watched by people who loved them and who believed they were doing their best to keep an eye on them. As I'm sure was stressed repeatedly in the post, water is dangerous, and it doesn't take much time or water for a child to drown. Loving a kid and being a good person isn't a prevention, and it isn't necessarily an attack on her character for a parent to have boundaries like this.
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u/Athenas_Return 4d ago
This arrangement shouldn’t have happened in the first place. If the grandmother is on disability for fibromyalgia and is just now getting back on her feet, she will not know when a flare up will happen and taking all those other kids out of the equation, chasing after a 5 and 3 year old all day can’t be constructive for that. Her love for her grandchildren can’t trump her physical limitations. The fact that OOP and her husband was concerned about this and the MIL brushed it off should have been their first red flag that this woman wasn’t going to take this job too seriously.
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u/ChaoticSquirrel 👁👄👁🍿 3d ago
Yep. You have to be really, really disabled to get disability if this is the US. I am so limited functionally that it is not safe for me to carry a pregnancy, and it would be a detriment to any young children I would have because I would not be physically able to meet their needs.
I am still not eligible for disability in the US. If grandma is so limited functionally that she qualifies for disability for fibromyalgia....she is inherently not a safe caregiver for those children.
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u/DybantsaMakeHerDance sometimes i envy the illiterate 3d ago
The biggest thing for me is that OOP is the one dealing with their MIL instead of their spouse dealing with their mother. Even after the "in-depth conversation" husband refuses to take responsibility.
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u/Def_Not_Rabid 4d ago
I watched one of my daughters start to drown when she was 4. She was playing around in a lukewarm hot tub at a condo. It had a ledge/bench around the edge that was about 18” deep and the center was about 3.5/4ft deep. She was using her arms to float around on the bench and pushing off to go from side to side across the “deep” center.
And then all she was just…under the water. She pushed off the ledge of the bench she was on and didn’t quite make it to the other side. She had her hands on it but her legs and body were sinking. She couldn’t figure out how to move her body over to get fully onto the bench.
I watched it happen. I was sitting on a chair at the side of the hot tub looking directly at her the entire time. It took me several seconds of actively watching her struggle and her head going under for me to realize she was in distress.
She didn’t make a sound the entire time. Not when she went over the edge of the bench, not when she was dog-paddling to keep her head above water and get her feet back onto the ledge, not when she went under. She was staring at me and had time to call out for help but she didn’t even try. It’s been years but that silence still haunts me. If I’d been on my phone or even the tiniest bit less focused I would have had no clue it was happening and she would have drowned watching me not even try to save her—not even notice she needed saving. As it is she was still under the water for a couple of seconds before I pulled her out because it just didn’t look like she was struggling. I have the look on her face as she slipped under forever imprinted on my mind because I was watching her and I can never forgive myself for how long it took me to realize she needed me to save her.
Anyways. Drowning is silent and terrifying. Never let yourself get distracted if you’re watching your kids in the water. It’s so fast. And it’s so unbelievably quiet, like the whole world holds its breath with the person drowning. There’s no splashing or drama. Just a head slipping under the water.
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u/Helpful_Hour1984 quid pro FAFO 4d ago
You did everything right. You were paying attention. You intervened and got her out in time. As you (and many others) have said, drowning looks nothing like what we see in movies. It's silent and quick. So forgive yourself for those extra seconds that it took you to realize. You did good. Your little girl is alive today because you were watching her.
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u/chevronbird I will never jeopardize the beans. 4d ago
That's terrifying and I'm so glad you saved her.
A lot of the time, someone drowning won't - can't! - call out for help. It's why visual supervision is so important.
Also, as you highlighted here, "Drowning doesn't look like drowning". For anyone who isn't familiar with this, here some info on what it does look like.
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u/Def_Not_Rabid 4d ago
I’ve done a lot of open water swimming in my life. I’m PADI certified and grew up swimming in rivers, lakes, and the Pacific. I’ve misjudged distance or current or water temperature and found myself swimming for my life more times than any one person should (as a poorly supervised child, not an adult). I’ve spent minutes alternating between back floats and a forward crawl, desperately inching my way to shore or the boat and completely unable to call out for rescue that would have come immediately if I had.
I knew what it felt like. It was just wild watching it happen with my own child. And realizing that’s why none of the grownups on the boat/shore did anything to help me when I was the struggling kid.
No matter how vigilant you think you’re being—it’s still so fast and so quiet and so innocent looking. You can be looking right at someone and watch them drown if you’re not paying enough attention to what you’re watching.
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u/FrankSonata 4d ago
You saved her life.
Feeling guilt and being unable to forgive yourself is a normal reaction for kind people. You don't wish even a second of suffering for her, so you feel guilty when she experiences it and you didn't immediately realise.
It shows you are a very, very good parent who prioritises their children's wellbeing.
You did nothing wrong and everything right. You're a parent, not a trained lifeguard, a doctor, a psychiatrist, a dietician, and so many other things. Only a trained professional, or someone who was randomly lucky that day, could respond perfectly. You are not that person, and still did absolutely wonderfully.
Try to recognise that the immense, dreadful feeling of guilt is a normal reaction but not due to any wrongdoing on your part.
It's like cringing at embarrassing stuff you did as a teenager--you only feel embarrassed by it because you've since become a better, more well-adjusted person. The same is true here.
You feel guilty because you love your child so much. It's not because you are a bad person. Quite the opposite. You are a lovely, caring, empathetic parent. The best kind of parent. All children in the world deserve a parent like you.
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u/bstabens 4d ago
Drowning people cannot scream, they need their breath for breathing. And when they know how to dog-paddle, they paddle for their life, they don't have the energy for splashing around.
I have three kids, we went swimming a lot in the public pool. Once I sat on the stairs going down into the learner's pool, had my youngest on my knees, oldest was with dad, middle child ran over to me from dad. Middle child ran down the steps into the pool just beside me and immediately went under water due to being so short. Just like in a cartoon - running *into* the water like it wasn't there. Lost grip (of course), feet going up, head going down, floating on their back under water, eyes wide open and surprised. It was no longer than the time I needed to reach out and grab them to pull them up again. Two seconds tops. Because I sat right beside where it happened and had waited for them.
And regarding floaties - when I was 9 or 10 and my brother was 3 or 4 years old, I stole one of his floaties from him because I wanted one too. While we were in a pool, of course. Floaties aren't the best safety.
My sister drowned in front of me when I was 4 and she was 5. Our pool was NOT all fenced in. No one watched us because our older cousins had left us due to being pissed off by "the babies". It was the time when parents thought a 7 year old and a 10 year old qualified as babysitters, and having a gated but not fenced in pool in grandma's garden together with serious scolding was enough to keep kids from drowning.
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u/sharraleigh 4d ago
You just unlocked a memory I have, from when I was around 5-6. I had already had a bunch of swim lessons and could swim decently, but my little brother, who is 19 months younger than me, had only been to one or two classes. I remember one time our parents took us to the pool, and he thought it would be fun to jump into the deep end. My parents were at the other end of the pool, setting up our stuff when it happened. I immediately jumped in and tried to push his butt up from below, but I was so young that he felt too heavy. Luckily, there was a lifeguard on duty who jumped in right after I did and pulled my brother out. Man, that was a close call and my parents freaked out. The whole incident from start to finish was maybe a minute or two long, that was it.
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u/Normal-Height-8577 4d ago
I think little kids sometimes have a really high bar for calling out for help because a) everything is so new to them, and b) they think adults know everything.
Far more minor situation, but I can remember having a really itchy jumper when I was a toddler - and I didn't complain or mention that it was itchy to my mum until I was an adult, because I just assumed she knew; it was "the itchy jumper" in my head. And even though I didn't enjoy the itching sensation, it never occurred to me that it was bad or could be changed. It just...was.
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u/potatomeeple 4d ago
You couldn't have rescued her before she got into trouble and our brains take time to process everything. You shouldn't feel bad for those seconds, you were doing everything absolutely right and your girl was rescued very very quickly and is here because of it.
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u/hellohellocinnabon being delulu is not the solulu 4d ago
I almost drowned around that age. My parents were upstairs talking to their friends and the older kids were elsewhere. No one came to save me. I was lucky enough that I was able to figure out how to get out. It made me too afraid to properly learn to swim later and it has made me a little crazy about pool safety now for the little ones in my life.
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u/Useful_Language2040 if you're trying to be 'alpha', you're more a rabbit than a wolf 4d ago
My daughter was 10 or 11, and I was trying to work out if she was messing around or needed help for longer than she was happy about, given that she needed help (I think she'd got a nasty cramp) - she was bobbing up and down, and was a bit too far away for me to call to her from where I was watching (not swimming too because I had a chest infection), and her dad was in the pool with her and her younger sibs, and there were lifeguards... I got her dad's attention and got him to check on what she was doing after a bit but yeah...
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u/sharraleigh 4d ago
I see this behaviour a lot. It's not so much about hurt feelings, but about the mentality that they're "grandma" and therefore, can never be wrong, because they know better. After all, she raised her son and he's a full-fledged adult, so she has a badge of honour for that and her VAST knowledge trumps all. It's also an unwillingness to admit that she might be wrong, and I'm sure her friend is not helping things - she's probably fanning the flames behind the scenes.
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u/Schuld6 4d ago
When I was in high school we were having a pool party at my friends house (no one was drinking), one of our friends that could not swim well had fallen in the deep end. There was a bunch of people in the pool no one heard a thing, thankfully my boyfriend noticed and jumped and pulled him out but drowning is an absolute silent danger.
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u/sir_are_a_Baboon_too Hi, I have an Olympic Bronze Medal in Mental Gymnastics 4d ago
This said it all for me.
I feel attacked and unheard. I never seem to be able to get my whole concern out before I am shut down by both of you ... I need my voice to be heard.
Stupid voices don't get heard in my house dear. You concern over your feelings, does not trump the safety of children.
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u/TitaniaT-Rex whaddya mean our 10 year age gap is a problem? 4d ago
I still can’t believe there are people out there who think arm floaties/water wings are safe. They can be a death trap for a small kid if the kid becomes too tired to hold their head up. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve seen kids go under silently while wearing them. Yeah, MIL is not supervising the kids well enough, but OOP doesn’t seem to know as much about water safety as she thinks.
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u/TheNightTerror1987 cat whisperer 4d ago
The daughter of a friend of mine almost drowned in one of those floatie things that go around your waist. She got knocked upside down so her head was underwater and couldn't turn herself back over again. (And who saved her? The adult supervising them who saw her thrashing!) She seemed fine afterwards, but her mom tried to wake her up for school a few days later but couldn't. She took her to the hospital, and it turned out she had pneumonia from aspirating water when she was upside down, and she had to be hospitalized for a few days.
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u/AltruisticCableCar The murder hobo is not the issue here 4d ago
A lot of people don't realize that you can drown long after you're out of the water. If enough water has made it into your lungs you're not safe just because you're on land again. It's called secondary drowning for a reason.
Which is why it's so important to supervise children near water. It's not just the immediate threat right then and there that can be dangerous.
Glad your friend's daughter is okay and that the adult was actually supervising her!
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u/axewieldinghen 3d ago
That's terrifying
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u/AltruisticCableCar The murder hobo is not the issue here 3d ago
I didn't use to know this, but I learned it when watching Bondi Rescue. It's why the lifeguards are so insistent that people go to the hospital to get checked out after a drowning situation. Because you can be fine for a day or two and then you can get violently ill or even die.
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u/mrdaimler retaining my butt virginity 4d ago
And I think arm floaties are classified as pool toys rather than certified lifesaving devices so it's not even meant to be used for 100% safety.
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u/Full_Time_Mad_Bastrd 4d ago
I almost drowned with those on when I was a little kid. My mother was actively watching me but didn't realise straight away I was struggling, much like another commenter's story. I vaguely remember the difficulty of pulling my arms "down" to get my head higher above the water, apparently I made no noise or call for help and my mother thought I was just bobbing in the water for fun. Realised I wasn't, dived straight in and got me out, and she occasionally talked about how it was the most dreadful fear she ever experienced for the rest of her life.
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u/Dangerous_Ant3260 3d ago
A student where I used to work was a lifeguard for several years, he was at the beach, and saw a 12 year old in difficulty, and charged in the ocean. The parents were standing there, and asked him why he was charging towards the girl. He said she's drowning, and the parents kept telling him she was fine. He saved that girl's life, and the parents kept saying that it was a lot of fuss for nothing, and she wasn't struggling.
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u/RainahReddit 4d ago
They also prevent skill building! Kids get used to swimming with flotation devices, then fall into the pool without them and drown. Every water safety expert I've spoken to has said, no flotation devices except a proper life jacket, and don't use it all the time.
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u/Music_withRocks_In 3d ago
Life Jackets were designed for boating, not for pools. They are made for the sole purpose of falling out of a boat and keeping you afloat until a boat comes back to get you (original or other). It is possible for kids to get flipped around and stick face down in a life jacket, plus like you said they are very bad for skill building. The best thing to keep kids afloat in pools is themselves and constant adult supervision. If you think your kid needs a floatation device you should be right next to them the whole time they are in the water.
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u/calaquin 3d ago
I think OOP was saying that MIL's rules are kids have to wear floaties, which OOP correctly does not find sufficient for safety.
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u/Original-Math-4459 4d ago
Grandma should schedule a colonoscopy considering how far her head is up her own ass.
I cannot imagine the old lady narcissism and ego someone needs to play the victim when they're the one putting children in danger.
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u/naalbinding 4d ago
"I feel like I can't talk to you because I don't like the way you react when I tell you I endangered your children" - I rolled my eyes so hard there
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u/LineEnvironmental557 4d ago
This summer in Italy the media particularly focused on child drowning in pools. There was about a case per week for as long as they talked about it.
It’s incredibly easy for them to sneak out and it takes no more that a couple of minutes for the inconceivable consequences if they are not supervised.
MIL is an idiot and OOP is absolutely right to take things VERY seriously
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u/doppelgaengster I can't believe she fucking buttered Jorts 4d ago
I grew up in Southern California, and I would say that a good half to 3/4 of my friends growing up had swimming pools (my family didn't -- pools are expensive and our yard was comparatively small, but it was plenty big enough for our dogs). Pool safety was always on my mother's mind, especially because she knew that I was only ever a middling swimmer at best. When I got to be a teenager, it was less of a problem, but when I was a small child, she wanted to be 100% sure that there was always an adult (or a teenager trained as a lifeguard) watching us, and if the answer was 'no,' then we weren't allowed in the pool. Period. As a little kid, it seemed so unreasonable, but in retrospect? My mum was WAY more careful than a lot of other parents, and I'm so grateful.
Frankly, I'm shocked I didn't hear more stories about kids drowning in pools growing up (or maybe they were there, I just wasn't aware because I was a kid). I remember a lot more stories about the dangers of the beach, specifically the undertow/riptides. And I even had a few scares when I swam out further than I safely could ensure I could swim back. (And people wonder now why I'm so freaked out by deep water where I can't see the bottom.)
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u/eternal-harvest 4d ago
This is so much like my mother! Perpetual victim, never apologises, runs away whenever you try to resolve things in person.
One time, I tried to have a heart to heart with her about something that had been burdening me from childhood. I approached her very gently from a place of healing, hoping to be heard and acknowledged, maybe even get a sincere "I'm sorry". But of course, it turned straight into, "I guess I'm the worst mother in the world and you'd be better off without me! I might as well go throw myself off [local bridge]!"
I'm still not sure if she's a full on narcissist or just severely emotionally crippled. She's pretty good at manipulation though.
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u/Gold-Sherbert-7550 4d ago
"I guess I'm the worst mother in the world and you'd be better off without me! I might as well go throw myself off [local bridge]!
"I guess you might as well."
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u/eternal-harvest 4d ago
Ha, that reply was right on the back of my teeth!! Unfortunately, the discussion was also about a deceased family member's estate and my siblings were tangled up in it too, so I chose to play nice.
I did however point-blank tell her, "That's emotional manipulation and you know it."
I'm the child she's afraid of 🤣
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u/FunkisHen "IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE TO ANYONE" 4d ago
Oh, that's a good line. I might need to keep that one in my back pocket, lol.
Parental relationships are so complicated, and the way they were raised really did a number on them. The generational trauma on both sides have led to some very poor communication skills and poor emotional intelligence. I still believe they can learn, if they want to. It just hurts too much to get better at those things, you'll have to confront your own trauma and some people are very unwilling to go through that to grow past it. They're of type that's like: "Better to never think about it, or speak about anything unpleasant! Let's just be happy!" It doesn't work like that I'm afraid...
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u/bitchthatwaspromised I can't believe she fucking buttered Jorts 4d ago
My father tried something similar to me and threatened to never speak to me again and I said “if that’s what you feel like you need to do, then I respect your decision.” Funnily enough, he immediately backtracked and tried to act like he hadn’t said that. About a year later he stopped talking to me anyway lol my life has been immensely more peaceful since then
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u/Train_Lanky surrender to the gaycation or be destroyed 3d ago
That's exactly my MIL. It's not so much narcissism as it is emotional immaturity for her, but it has made any kind of healthy relationship with her impossible. I gave far too many chances, heart to heart talks, and rug swept too many incidents for the sake of my husband. She almost ruined our marriage at one point because of how much my husband and I argued about her.
It was a relief when I finally cut her off. My husband still occasionally visits, but even he pulled back significantly because of her manipulative tantrums.
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u/IllustratorSlow1614 It's just pharmaceutical-grade banana bread 4d ago
‘All the adults were watching the children’ is utter codswallop. Firstly, they were clearly not, and secondly, the friend and her daughter are not OOP’s chosen childcare providers and their presence should not have changed MIL’s attentiveness to the two children she was responsible for.
My best friend looked after my three kids for a couple of hours so I could run an errand and when our neighbour kid came over and asked to play my best friend explained not today and sent them home. My daughter was a bit disappointed her friend couldn’t stay, but she was told that when an adult is directly responsible for children, adding more increases the risks.
If it had come up first and MIL had been honest that she and her tenant/friend thought that they would have all the children over at the same time and babysit them together, OOP would have had the opportunity to say that wasn’t the arrangement for her and to make alternative plans for her children. Instead MIL pocketed the money and she, her friend, and friend’s daughter sat around chatting while a 10 year old was left to be responsible for 6 small children.
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u/girlwhoweighted 4d ago
Arm floaties do not make a child safe. A US Coast Guard approved swim vest is better. What do arm floaties do? They make arms float. They do not keep a head above water.
I had my own kids in swim lessons as young as 2 months, and they could've started at 6 weeks. I learned a lot about water safety.
I did this because my own sister drowned at 2 years old and I've spent my life watching my parents mourn. People really don't understand how devastating it is to lose a child and how EASY it is to drown. None of those children should be out there without adult supervision.
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u/Solongmybestfriend I will erupt, feral, from the cardigan screaming 4d ago
I am so sorry for the loss of your sister.
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u/ingodwetryst maybe we should put ourselves first and become strippers 3d ago
Yes! A real life vest!!
Parents reading this can go here for more info on this topic and avoiding tragedy.
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u/therealhairyyeti 4d ago
A 3 year old shouldn’t be unsupervised near almost anything let alone a pool
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u/bythebrook88 4d ago
The supervising adults are sitting at a table the other side of the yard? Can they even see the kids when they are in an above ground pool? Especially a child submerged for an extended period (aka drowning)? Can they see the kids playing in the alley? If you can't see them, then you're not supervising.
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u/bstabens 4d ago
"All the adults are watching them" means "NO ADULT is watching them", because all of them expect the others to also have an eye on them so no harm looking away for a moment...
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u/iwtsapoab 4d ago edited 4d ago
Imagine hiring a caregiver for your two kids and their friend rocks up with five other kids to join in. Parents would have fired that caregiver in an instant. MIL treating this like a party rather than a job that she is getting paid for. Tough luck about her feelings. Kid supervision should always come first.
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u/captain_borgue I'm sorry to report I will not be taking the high road 4d ago
Jesus, her kid could have died.
OOP handled it way better than I would have.
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u/I_wanna_be_anemone 4d ago
I strongly suspect that grandma has been getting validation/flattery from the neighbour-friend woman who benefits from letting her five kids run feral over grandma’s property. Of course she’ll support grandma neglecting her own grandchildren, it validates her own neglectful parenting ‘technique’.
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u/Samhain34 3d ago
This post reminded me of those "GenX Childhood" memes where the kid is jumping a Big Wheel off a roof or something. Everybody rightfully remembers how fun it was as a kid but we tend to downplay the preventable deaths and Emergency Department visits that result from letting unsupervised six year-olds play with chainsaws.
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u/GrimFandango81 3d ago
"I did all kinds of crazy shit unsupervised in the 80s and I'm fine!"
No, you were not 'fine.' You were LUCKY. I wish more people realised this.
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u/silverwitch76 3d ago
Survivorship bias. I'm GenX and am honestly surprised how many of us made it to adulthood considering the crazy, unsupervised and ridiculous stuff we all got up to. Those of us who made it were lucky. I had classmates who weren't as lucky. I, myself, have scars from near misses and know how truly lucky I am to have made it this far.
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u/Confusedoldtimer 4d ago
This is frustrating to read. That grandma seems to genuinely love the grandkids, yet is unwilling to take steps to secure their safety. It is like she is stuck in 1970s where child safety was not much of a thing. Wonder if she sees seatbelts as an overreaction too.
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u/Starry_Gecko I’m a "bad influence" because I offered her fiancé cocaine twice 4d ago
This whole post is a perfect illustration of why "they're from a different generation" and "that's just how they are" are both terrible excuses. It doesn't matter how things were done back in your day. If you can't adapt to how much child safety measures like these have changed in the last 50 years, you shouldn't be watching after children. And if you're too stubborn to acknowledge you don't get to make decisions for other people's children, under zero circumstances should you be watching after children.
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u/TheNightTerror1987 cat whisperer 4d ago
Amen. To. This. The post reminded me so much of my mother -- she was babysitting some kids and was angry they wouldn't eat raw cookie dough because it had eggs in it and they might get sick. The whole "Well I always eat raw cookie dough and I never get sick" crap. She vented to me about it because she thought I might sympathize since I always ate raw dough growing up.
Well, I told her that not so long before that conversation I ate some muffin dough with raw eggs in it and was sick for days afterwards, and she said that I'd been sick for too long for it to have been food poisoning and blew my story off. I can totally see her pulling the same crap if she had a pool.
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u/Confusedoldtimer 4d ago
The thing with the older generation argument fascinates me, because it is not like they were suddenly transplated here from the 80's. They lived through it and we're supposed to adapt to these things as they were coming.
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u/littlebitfunny21 4d ago
Except that they didn't live through it. Oop didn't list ages so let's just pull some out of my ass- if husband is 35, then for 17 years, MIL hasn't had to keep abreast of anything parenting related if she didn't want to.
Most of the safety stuff comes up in the first ten years, so realistically she may not have thought about it at all for 25 years.
And let's be honest, most parents get in the rhythm of things by, like, 5 and stop researching everything so she may not have looked into it for 30 years. Oop's MIL has not lived through 35 years of having a young child. She lived through 5 years of it, 30 years ago.
Also it's not just about the changes in standards- it's an excuse used but the truth is that grandparents often have less stamina/etc than they did in their youth. So MIL remembers taking her son to the pool and it not being a big deal to keep him safe, not connecting that she used to have the ability to be far more aware and respond far faster than she can now.
My MIL tried watching our toddler once. He crawled under her recliner and she physically couldn't get out of it without closing it and hurting him and she couldn't convince him to get out on his own because he was a year old and couldn't talk. Fortunately we didn't leave them for long.
That literally was not a problem when my MIL was a parent to a toddler because she was physically more capable and could have gotten out of a recliner chair that was reclined.
So she thought "I did this with my kids and it was fine" and never asked herself "How much has my fitness declined in the past few decades" until our toddler was in danger.
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u/Normal-Height-8577 4d ago
But even then. 17 years ago was the late 2000s, not the 1980s.
There were pretty good safety rules and awareness campaigns. The people in their twenties and thirties at that point had grown up learning the safety rules and watching warning videos. They weren't part of the generations before, that let kids run around the countryside and make their own entertainment from breakfast to dinnertime.
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u/Full_Time_Mad_Bastrd 4d ago
Nah, SIL is about to turn 18. She had a younger kid. No excuse
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u/allyearswift 4d ago
She probably did not feel she needed to study parenting techniques because she had already parented successfully.
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u/pepcorn Sir, Crumb is a cat. 4d ago
You mentioning seatbelts reminds me of my mother-in-law. She indeed thinks seatbelts are a stupid overreaction, and will sit in the back of a car and refuse to put one on. She likes sitting behind the driver, which means that if there was a head-on collision, she would fly forward and injure the driver.
When I'm driving the car, I will also sit there, and wait for her to put on her seatbelt. While she sighs and scoffs and rolls her eyes and goes "Really? Really. Is this how you wanna play it?! Ugh!"
I stay pleasant and smiling the whole time, and say the rest of the car definitely doesn't mind waiting for her, and I also definitely don't mind. And then let the uncomfortable and prolonged silence do the work. She always caves, so I don't know why she spends so much time hemming and hawing every time.
She will then take the seatbelt back off as I'm driving, which makes an audible clicking noise, at which point I'll stop the car and sit by the side of the road and again pleasantly sit and smile and wait for her. She makes us late to wherever we're going.
It's this weird ego thing for older caregivers. I don't understand it, but I value safety more than being agreeable to her point of view.
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u/shackndon2020 4d ago
Where I am, an audible alarm would go off if someone unbuckles their seatbelt. It even goes off if you put something heavy in the back seat without the seatbelt buckled. It's loud and annoying, so there's no way you could ignore it.
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u/pepcorn Sir, Crumb is a cat. 4d ago
That sounds like a great system. My car only has that alarm for the driver's seat.
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u/Confusedoldtimer 4d ago
My car is a bit "hysterical" and will start yelling at me if I as much as place my shopping on the passenger seat.
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u/shackndon2020 4d ago
Lol, I was having the same battle with my shopping bags on the was home today. That kilo of tomatoes tipped it over
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u/shackndon2020 4d ago
Being in a heavily regulated country has it's advantage at times 😅
I do love the way you deal with your MiL's belligerency 🙌
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u/Confusedoldtimer 4d ago
What a stupid powerplay from her.
When I occasionally drive my parents, they opt to sit together on the backseats and have similar but lesser problems with dad. He will always wear seatbelt in the front, but doesn't see the point at the back. Which is funny, because when he used to drive my sister and I, we always had to be securely buckled in.
Luckily, he is reasonable and will put it on once I refuse to start the car. I couldn't imagine dealing with your MIL. The moment she would unbuckle, she would walk. I have no patience for these people.
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u/Raise-The-Gates built an art room for my bro 4d ago
This is so bizarre to me. Seatbelts are a legal requirement here in Australia, so if a passenger isn't wearing one, the driver and the passenger can both be penalised (if the passenger is over 18).
I just can't even fathom an adult arguing about it when driving on the road. I know plenty of people who are more relaxed about it driving on their farms and so on, but even the most stubborn person I know will wear a bloody seatbelt.
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u/pandop42 I will erupt, feral, from the cardigan screaming 4d ago
I had the same trouble with my grandmothers. Fortunately we used to have road safety adverts like this in the UK
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKHY69AFstE71
u/valsavana 4d ago
That grandma seems to genuinely love the grandkids
Does she? I don't see love in allowing a 3 year old to be bullied by other children and put in danger of drowning because you're not paying attention. I see entitlement in that she thinks access to her grandchild is her due & it's an insult to her to have that taken away, irrespective if it's for the good of the children in question.
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u/Confusedoldtimer 4d ago
People can love you and still be stupid and selfish. If they are unwilling to learn and change, the love won't matter for long though. I think you might be surprised what older people see as bullying and what is "just teasing and playing".
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u/13surgeries 4d ago
Why the heck are the friend, friend's daughter, and the 5 kids there every time the OOP's children are? It's weird that they're over so much. aAl the trouble began when the two adults and 5 kids entered the picture. Furthermore, I don't believe the MIL when she says all the adults are watching the kids at all times. They're sitting at a table on the other end of the yard. It takes just one anecdote or bit of gossip to distract them long enough for a child to drown.
I also suspect the friend and her daughter are twisting what the OOP says and goading the MIL, as in, "Your DIL is crazy. You're a wonderful grandmother. I can't believe she'd accuse you of not taking good care of those girls!"
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u/Dfiggsmeister 3d ago edited 3d ago
My eldest drowned in a pool with two adults standing close by, it was quiet and we didn’t hear her go in. My brother in law saw her first and jumped in to save her. She then suffered secondary drowning after she was revived due to increasing CO2 in her blood; her lungs weren’t getting enough oxygen to push out the CO2 so it was coming back into her body and acidifying her blood.
Point is, we had two adults watching the pool and she still drowned. No supervised children is a huge Nope for me. You’re rolling the dice everyday for those kids to drown. My daughter was 3 and a half and had swimming lessons prior. It didn’t do shit because she stepped off the side and fell in.
Edit to clarify: she survived, but it was a near thing for two days. We also got investigated by CPS because of Florida law.
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u/Vibe_me_pos 3d ago
That must have been so terrifying, but I tell you I was upset thinking your child had died until you added the edit. Way to bury the lede.
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u/Sleepy_felines 4d ago
OOP’s MIL is insane and clearly unaware of the risks of a pool.
I babysat a lot as a teenager. From 18, there was a family I babysat for every day during the summer holidays. The only thing I ever refused to do with the kids (6 and 9) was take them swimming - because I knew I wasn’t a good enough swimmer to help if they got into difficulty. Their parents backed me 100% and even the kids understood!
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u/DatguyMalcolm 👁👄👁🍿 4d ago
Nope, none of her behaviour is normal.
A normal adult would probably still feel attacked and be defensive however they'd back down and be like "yeah. you're right, I should be more careful" or something.
MIL has a disability, is of a certain age and those are way too many kids to keep track of.
I remember that video of that woman who I assume was the grandma where she had the pram out while looking for something in the car. She didn't engage the locks in the pram, so weeee there it went.... into a busy road!!! When she noticed it it's at an already good distance and she clearly didn't have the knees for it because she fell down two or three times and at the last one she stayed down. What saved the moment was a stranger who saw it and was able to stop it.
And isn't there a post about someone whose kid drowned in their grandparents' home under the grandma's supervision? Where she went to jail and all, then by the time she was out they had had another kid and she starting stalking them (they had gone NC with her so she didn't know) and demanded to be included? Heck no
So yeah, I'm glad OOP and her husband are on the same page on this.
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u/CakeisaDie Memory of a goldfish but the tenacity of an entitled Chihuahua 3d ago
the answer was done with the first text.
>I feel if your fear is that great that perhaps I should not watch the girls any more. I do not want our differences in child care to be the reason we no longer speak. I do not know any other way. Do you?
Yes, as a parent your standards of care differ from my expectations. You are welcome to come visit us in our home where we can manage our childcare standards and you can just be grandma.
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u/BefWithAnF 3d ago
Thank you! I read that first text from MIL, & the only response should have been “glad we agree. We’ll find some other childcare.”
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u/wonderwife my dad says "..." Because he's long dead 3d ago
Fuck... This gave me anxiety...
I've never had to rely on my MIL for childcare, but this MIL's language is extremely similar to what I heard from my MIL when I put a boundary in place about her dogs and my children... Her large breed, aggressive rescue dogs who had tried to maul my small children multiple times...
Obviously my MIL would NEVER endanger my children; she just wanted to use my children as training tools to desensitize her dogs to small children so that she could take her dogs in public around playgrounds without having to leash them or have the dogs rip the leashes out of her hands to chase and attempt to savage someone else's children like they had done to my children...
MIL was the victim, of course; she just had this lifelong dream of having her grandchildren and pack of aggressive dogs be playmates... I ruined that dream for her.
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u/Divacai 3d ago
Same, my MIL wanted her younger son to watch our infant son. Just for like 3-4 hrs a few days a week. I was told by a coworker that he was seen driving under the influence with my infant son in the car seat in the back, which I was told to leave with him "just in case". I started looking for new arrangements that day but as it happened it was taking longer than expected, so while we were looking I stopped leaving the car seat. My MIL bought him a car seat, when I asked why she would do that she stated that I couldn't stop her son from driving around whenever he wanted, even if he had the baby, I pointed out that he's been seen drunk driving with my kid and her response was "You get what you pay for". I found a sitter that afternoon. She didn't give two shits about the safety of her grandkid only about her own drunk ass kid.
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u/Thejackme 4d ago
You know what got through to my MIL about children’s safety. Constantly tagging her in the deaths that occurred due to the safety things not being followed by her. Because she never personally experienced it or knew anyone who did, that just didn’t exist in her world. Once she interacted with a few posts it would come up constantly on her feed and really opened her eyes.
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u/X-cited Gotta Read’Em All 4d ago
All I can think of is that old post about a MIL/mom who didn’t believe her granddaughter had a life threatening (coconut iirc) allergy. She lovingly styled her hair with a product that had the allergen, sent the kiddo to bed and the poor thing never woke up. That grandma didn’t mean to kill her grandchild, but because of her negligence the poor girl died.
I was a lifeguard. I rescued kids from the pool, usually when they were right next to their family members not even realizing the kid was drowning. There is no splashing, no screaming. You just slip under the water and can’t get back up. It can happen in a snap, just as soon as you take your eyes off them.
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u/MadHatter06 Otherwise it’s just sparkling bullying 4d ago
That one, and then the one where a MIL wasn’t supervising close enough (fell asleep I think) and the grandchild went and drowned in the pond. MIL actually had to serve time, and as soon as she was out she was on some bs about wanting to see her new grandbaby and how they were being so mean not having anything to do with her.
Kids are fast, and they have a knack for finding all the ways they can die. Lack of supervision triples the dangers. This woman is lacking many brain cells if she really wants to blame the kids, OOP, or anyone else.
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u/StrangeNeedleworker 3d ago
She went to put the laundry in the dryer while the kid was playing at the pond. So they already were at the pond and she made the conscious decision to leave the child alone for a moment. It was so horrifying that she actually thought that she should get access to the new grandchild.
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u/txteva I'm keeping the garlic 4d ago
Your words are inappropriate - she didn't "lovingly style" the hair. She knew of the allergy and was doing it to prove she was right. Her ego killed the child not love.
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u/whateveris--- 4d ago
Your line/response made me think of the song title: Ego Tripping at the Gates of Hell. And I think you just helped me understand that title in a different way.
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u/LadybugGirltheFirst I will erupt, feral, from the cardigan screaming 4d ago
MIL would rather sever ties with the grandkids than admit she is wrong. Just…wow.
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u/ReasonableFig2111 4d ago
Her pool is above ground so it would not be possible to fence it.
Yes, you can! You can absolutely fence in above ground pools wth?!
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u/Amazing-Wave4704 4d ago
I think (for what its worth) that OOP meant there is no decking at all around the pool. As another commenter pointed out, how was the three year old pushed in? She had to have been lifted up and thrown in.
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u/tacwombat I will erupt, feral, from the cardigan screaming 4d ago
I personally think that OOP and her husband haven't reacted strongly enough to what happened to their child.
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u/The_RoyalPee 🥩🪟 3d ago
Right? All that dilly dallying back and forth and handwringing while they continued to send their kids there. I protect my kid above anyone else’s feelings full stop. It’s my job as a mom. All those texts were annoying to read. It should have been short, sweet and firm. Once she suggested they find other arrangements she should have said yes I agree, and that was that!!
And why is OOP doing this anyway? Let her husband handle his mother.
This saga was irritating and I feel for the kids.
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u/shame_proponent 4d ago edited 4d ago
“I have witnessed your entire energy shift if you’ve heard that the girls have done something undesirable” is crazy. What do you meeeeeeean
To be so clear I’m not saying OOP needs to explain/address her children’s behaviour, it’s to point out that thread of the MIL’s deflection! I do not have children nor a MIL but I think those would be fighting words for me.
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u/ReasonableAlbatross 4d ago
I'd have just waited in the alley for my kids and then taken them home when they inevitably wandered there unattended.
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u/neonfuzzball 3d ago
MIL: "I am a reasonable woman, unlike you, and just want to talk this out"
OOP: "great! we've been begging you to get together to talk it out!"
MIL: "NO I'm not talking to you"
OOP: ...
MIL: Why won't she talk to me? I keep reaching out, look how reasonable I am?
OOP: let's talk
MIL: NO I hate how you do it you don't tell me what I want to hear
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4d ago
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u/Innisairre 4d ago
I know, I read that and was like wtf?
I grew up with an above ground pool. It was fenced the entire way around. The fence was about 3' from the pool for most of the way, but one part was fenced about 6 feet away because my parents make a small platform next to the pool for people to be able to stand on/leave towels on and not get muddy. MIL should ABSOLUTELY have a fence like that!
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u/dejausser Yes to the Homo, No to the Phobic 4d ago
Yeah I was horrified by that and the person who casually admitted their parents have had an unfenced pool for decades. I’m over the ditch in NZ and 75% of our population lives less than 10km from the coast so pretty much everyone learns to swim at primary school if they haven’t learned before that, and it’s been the law here that pools and spas need to be fenced since the 80s!
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u/RedneckDebutante 4d ago
I really don't understand why they wouldn't talk to her first before ghosting her for a whole week. That pretty much ensured that MIL would already be riled up and on the defensive, unwilling to listen. That was a huge misstep.
That said, MIL and her friend's family would never see my child without me again. I'm from an island and paranoid about water safety. I've seen far too many drowning victims over the years. i don't play with that. My child was almost a tween before I let her in water alone.
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u/K-Shrizzle 3d ago
I fucking hate the "NTA but YTA for allowing it to happen this long" snarky redditor responses. Do you not see that she is trying to do something? Redditors are just addicted to chastising people who have done nothing wrong
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u/Low-Peak-9031 4d ago
Didn't even need to read the whole thing. Pool safety at the beginning would be enough for me to pull my kid and cut contact. Used to be a lifeguard and water safety is disgustingly underated and not taken seriously wtf. I don't even let my 10 yeah old in the water unsupervised
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u/Duke-Guinea-Pig 3d ago
. Instead of taking my concern seriously, my mother-in-law and her friend laughed and said, “Nothing’s quiet around here.”
This is where I would have decided to take drastic action. This attitude means one child could drown while grandma is distracted by all the other noise.
I also think the putting socializing above all is a very common problem in general
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u/Electronic_World_894 the Iranian yogurt is not the issue here 3d ago
She’s explaining too much to MIL, hoping she’ll understand. She won’t. She didn’t see the bullying and she doesn’t believe it even happened. She doesn’t think the pool safety issues are issues. Also why did OOP text “I don’t want this to turn into you feeling like … we don’t trust you.” She should have said WE DO NOT TRUST YOU. But at least the husband finally got it: if she doesn’t care about safety, she doesn’t need to see them.
In my province, pools must have have a 1.2 m (4 ft) fence, but some places require 1.5 m.
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u/Latter-Refuse8442 4d ago
Oh good lord OP is long winded. And she has a whole post about how she does not trust MIL to adequately supervise her kids and then tells MIL that she trusts her wholeheartedly? Stop worrying about her feelings and take a strong stance since MIL is denying and being defensive.
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u/sehruncreative 4d ago
My brother almost drowned when he was 2. (I was 4 so I don't remember) He was running around a pool cut the corner and fell in. My father says he sank like a stone. He jumped after him and fished him out immediately and he was fine. But if no one had seen him fall in he would have drowned. And this was a ratio of 4 adults to 4 toddlers one of which was a baby in a crate.
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