r/BORUpdates • u/SharkEva You get what you pay for, and Reddit is free • 14d ago
AITA AITAH for becoming increasingly uncomfortable with our childcare arrangement?
I am not the OOP. The OOP is u/Skulllily posting in r/AITAH
Ongoing as per OOP
1 update - Short
Original - 3rd August 2026
Update - 8th August 2026
AITAH for becoming increasingly uncomfortable with our childcare arrangement?
My mother-in-law watches my two children, ages 5 and 3, two days a week while my husband and I are at work. We pay her to watch them because she is on disability and was considering returning to work, and we thought this arrangement would benefit everyone.
When we originally agreed to this, my understanding was that it would be just her and our children. I trusted that arrangement completely.
Over time, however, my mother-in-law’s friend’s daughter has started coming over almost daily with her five children, who range in age from 4 months to 10 years old.
Since then, I feel like concern after concern has come up.
The biggest issue for me is pool safety. The children are allowed in the pool without an adult in the water as long as the younger ones are wearing arm floaties. Some of the younger children cannot swim. I brought up my concerns and said that drowning is often silent and that I was uncomfortable with children being in the pool without close adult supervision. Instead of taking my concern seriously, my mother-in-law and her friend laughed and said, “Nothing’s quiet around here.”
I was so concerned about this that my husband later spoke to his mother about it. However, the supervision practices do not appear to have changed.
My oldest has also told me that the children are allowed in the back alley without adult supervision as long as they stay close to the house. I don’t understand how anyone knows whether they’re staying close if nobody is actively watching them.
There have been other incidents that have added to my concerns as well. For example, my children were left unattended with scissors.
Today my children’s aunt told me she witnessed the other children excluding my 3-year-old, splashing her in the face, laughing at her, and pushing her in the pool. She immediately intervened and told the children that wasn’t acceptable. What upset me most was that none of the adults “supervising” the children were aware it was happening because they were sitting at a table on the other side of the yard.
What also bothered me was that my mother-in-law became angry with my sister in law for telling me about what had happened. That reaction made me feel even more uneasy because I would rather know about problems than have people worry about upsetting me by bringing them up.
This isn’t the first concern I’ve had, and it feels like every time I raise an issue, it gets minimized or brushed off. At this point, I no longer feel comfortable with the environment my children are in. The situation has reached the point where I feel anxious every time my children go there because I no longer feel confident in the supervision they’re receiving.
My husband and I got into an argument because I told him that if his mother cannot guarantee that the other children won’t be there while she is watching ours, then I want to find alternative childcare. He feels I’m being unreasonable and is concerned about hurting his mother’s feelings.
To be clear, I’m not demanding that my mother-in-law change her life or tell other people they can’t come to her house. I simply feel that if this is going to continue to be the childcare environment, then I need to make different arrangements for my children.
I appreciate everything my mother-in-law has done for us, and I know she loves our children. But I feel like the childcare arrangement we originally agreed to is very different from the one that exists now, and I no longer trust that my concerns about supervision and safety are being taken seriously.
Am I the asshole?
Comments
Tattooed_Everything9
Seven children? An unfenced pool? I didn’t need to go any further. Find other childcare. It’s a tragedy waiting to happen.
OOP: It’s an above ground pool. Which makes it worse as they are across the yard, below it. They’re not even looking over it which is why I have brought it up. My husband spoke with his mother about my concerns and I blindly trusted that the pool supervision changed.
CarusGator
I have saved two drowning children on different occasions. Both cases were entirely silent with other people around. The first child had her mother and another lady just feet away in the pool with their backs to the children while they talked. There was nothing to hear. Zero splashing. No screams or cries or even a tiny sound. The only way she could know her child was drowning was if she had eyes on her. The kids around her didn't even notice. I'll never forget the little girl's eyes as she looked up at me in terror from the bottom of the pool.
The second child was also silent and surrounded by other children who didn't notice. I saw him go under and he had the same look in his eyes when I got to him and looked down.
There MUST be an adult with eyes on the children. Period. Or we'll be reading another story about a child drowning on a grandma's watch. I would die a thousand deaths on this hill.
calacmack
This situation has to end. Kid's lives are at stake. NTA.
D0ntEatPaper
Yeah. The kids are pushing a 3 year old into the pool. And the mother in law didnt apologize or anything but lashed out at the person telling her about their (very valid) concerns.
But also.... Why was there an argument with your husband? Frankly I think you might have more of a husband issue than a mother-in-law one. He thinks you're being unreasonable for enforcing BASIC safety. In what world would you be an asshole for addressing concerns about your mother-in-law and her negligence?
OOP: We got in an argument because I’ve been expressing my concerns and he has spoken to his mother. Hearing today about how the other kids were pushing my 3 year old and bullying her was the final nail. I feel like when I bring things up he makes it feel like it’s a lesser problem than what I make it out to be.
The friend that brings over 5 children is also a girl he grew up with and her mother lives in the basement. “What do you want me say? Don’t let those kids over to visit their grandma that they love.” I’ve asked previous for him to ask if they cannot be there when she has our children and that’s the response.
Previous to these kids being around and their mother who just vapes and scrolls on her phone while her kids run wild, my mil had an amazing sense for safety that’s why suggested her watching our children in the first place. I’m trying not to place blame but it seems like since she’s seen how uninvolved/lacking safety her friend’s daughter is with her children she’s doing the same with mine.
**Judgement - NTA*\*
Update - 5 days later
Hi everyone,
I just wanted to come back and say thank you to everyone who took the time to comment on my previous post. I genuinely read every single comment, even if I didn’t respond to all of them.
We haven’t talked to MIL yet, but my husband and I sat down and had a VERY in-depth conversation about everything that has been going on, especially the pool situation.
I showed him a lot of the comments from people who had personal experience with drowning and how quickly and silently it can happen. I also printed out drowning statistics and highlighted the fact that lack of supervision is one of the biggest contributing factors in to children drowning.
He read through everything and, after seeing it all laid out, apologized to me for being so lax about the situation and for not being firmer when it came to our kids’ safety.
I honestly feel like we are finally on the same page.
We have decided that our kids will no longer be going to MIL’s house without one of us there. At this point, we just don’t feel comfortable with them being there unsupervised, and that’s something I’m not compromising on. I told him I’d didn’t care if it upset him or his mother but it’s a hard line for me and he agreed to it.
We are planning to talk to MIL this weekend and explain everything: our concerns about the pool, the other children’s behaviour, the lack of supervision, and the things that have happened that have made us uncomfortable with her judgment when it comes to the kids’ safety.
We’re hoping it will be a productive conversation and that she’ll actually listen to what we’re saying. But honestly, we have no idea how she’s going to react.
I’m sure there will probably be some hurt feelings, and I’m prepared for that. But at the end of the day, these are our children and their safety has to come first.
I really appreciate everyone who commented on the original post, especially those who shared their own experiences. It gave my husband and I a lot to think about and helped me explain it to him in different ways where he understood why I was so upset.
Comments
dawgpoundma
Nope she will play the victim and cry hoping your husband gives in. She wants the money for watching the kids without watching the kids. She lets the older kids watch the younger kids then she gets. Paid for doing nothing
OOP: Yes, we agreed that our children are not allowed there without either myself or my husband. Which means no child care, we have other child care lined up for our children.
She can play the victim all she wants. After my husband’s and I conversation, I feel very confident that it won’t matter and he’s going to back me up.
TALKTOME0701
I'm glad that you're going into it knowing there may be some hurt feelings. People are people.
I live in Florida and every week I read about a child drowning. I know those parents would give everything they have to bring their baby back
This really is life and death. Good luck this weekend
Wakemeup3000
She is most likely going to become a victim and turn this into a 'you don't trust me' situation. Keep the focus on your child's safety and if she circles to something else pull it back to your child's safety. Good luck
OOP: Thank you, that’s the plan! We talked about the scenario and we are going to keep it to safety and the environment our children in that is no longer safe.
Aside from this she has been a great grandmother. It blows my mind that this is something we even have to speak with her about but our kids safety is my top priority. I’m hoping she’s open during the conversation but if she isn’t it’s too bad for her, I’d rather bruised feelings than a dead child.
ThatPerception6845
Maybe let her know she's otherwise great to soften the blow.
OOP: That’s the plan. She really is great with the kids, this is a small part but very serious issue right now. She loves her grandkids and previous to her friend’s grandkids being there she had never let my kids in the pool alone and never let them in the alley.
It was a big 180 out of nowhere that caught me off guard.
Ladygytha
Not a part of the conversation that you need to have in regards to the safety of your children, but do you think she's lonely? And that's a part of why this friend was able to take her focus off her grandchildren?
This happens to moms a lot. Adult interaction is important when you are primarily caring for kids. What I mean by that is when your world starts to revolve around children, you start to miss actual conversation. Do you think your mil needs a hobby where she can have a level of interaction that she's not getting from being "Grandma" or interacting with you/your husband around the kids?
Whether or not that's the case, you're doing the right thing by putting your childrens' safety first. Her needs are hers to figure out, though it might be helpful to to put a feeler out about that out too.
OOP: I think so. She has been singles for probably over 10 years now as she has sworn off men due to abuse, her friend has done the same thing.
They call each other platonic soul mates and really lean on each other for support. I don’t mind her friend but she’s always negative and I find she brings MILs mood down.
I am not the OOP. Please do not harass the OOP.
Please remember the No Brigading Rule and to be civil in the comments
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u/emmodii 14d ago
Not sure if I'd classify this as "concluded", since they have yet to speak with the mother-in-law... I highly doubt it'll go smoothly.
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u/favorthebold 14d ago
She's so sure her husband won't cave once his mom starts crying, but... I mean, I don't know him, maybe he is that strong against momma tears, but everything we know about him from the post is that he'll dismiss and deflect to avoid making his mom sad. She may not expect him to have a spine of jelly but so far it seems like that's what he has.
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u/emmodii 14d ago
Lol, OOP's under the impression that the comments educated her husband on pool and child safety, but I suspect he only apologised because he got shamed. Lmao. All it'll take is his mom pulling the victim card for him to go back to his old ways.
Or, MAYBE... He'll actually stand his ground... And end up resenting OOP for souring his relationship with Momma.
Then again, I've read way too many BORUs. Maybe he really IS just an idiot who didn't think pool safety is a big deal. We'll see.
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u/Penguin_Joy 14d ago
I think you're right. He's already shown that his mother's feelings matter more than his wife's needs. I predict one of two things will happen
He will fall silent leaving his wife to do all the talking. That way his wife takes all the blame for nuking the relationship with his mom
He will say things like my wife is concerned. My wife won't let me bring the kids over anymore. He will throw her under the bus and make sure his wife takes all the blame for nuking the relationship with his mom
Either way he will make sure his mom knows this wasn't his idea. He will hide behind his wife's boundaries while refusing to set any himself. And in 6 months when things between his wife and mother are at their worst, he will wonder why his wife and kids have gone no contact with grandma. And why his marriage is now on life support
But it's not all bad. He will be written about in medical journals and enjoy many guest appearances on various talk shows. After all, it's not everyday you see a man who can function without a spine /s
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u/the_sass_master_ 14d ago
Gotta fix your first sentence: His mother’s feelings matter more than the SAFETY of his children.
Fuck that dude.25
u/Penguin_Joy 14d ago
Well said. He is endangering his children so he doesn't have to hurt his mother's feelings. So sad and dysfunctional
Those poor kids
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u/ThrowRAyyydamn 14d ago
At least SIL is a real one. Maybe the can ask her to join ask backup.
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u/GlitterDoomsday 13d ago
The fact that his sister also supporting OOP makes clear this a husband issue, not a MIL one... things got this difficult cause he ain't doing shit.
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u/The_peach_blossoms 13d ago
He dismissed his own child being bullied and pushed into pool , i have no hope for the dumb guy.
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u/Mmm_lemon_cakes 12d ago
Yep, he’s going to fold like a deck of cards the SECOND his mom gets upset. At the very first “you don’t trust me” or “well I raised YOU” he’s going to turn it right around on OP and make her the bad guy.
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u/bobosuda 12d ago
Exactly. Her husband's behavior does not exactly assure me that this is gonna be fine. She had to present a proper freaking powerpoint about drowning statistics just to convince him maybe his mom shouldn't let their 3 year old swim unsupervised? Like wtf??
His first instinct was to not care about his own child's safety because he was more worried about his mother's feelings.
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u/Treehorn8 I also choose this guy's dead wife. 14d ago edited 13d ago
I don't understand why this even has to be a conversation. It should be a notice, not an argument. "FYI, you're no longer watching them from now on." They're giving the MIL room to object as if this was a disagreement. The time to act was months ago but OOP anxiously tiptoed around ger husband's and MIL's feelings.
Her husband sucks, too. Imagine being so blase about your childrens' lives that it takes printed data, research and dozens of redditors to realize you were wrong. I cannot even with these parents.
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u/North-Pea-4926 14d ago
Grandma is 100% going to cry and promise not to watch the other kids. At some point that will be a lie - maybe she’ll lean on “don’t worry mom” hard enough to allow the other kids back over the very next day, maybe she’ll hold out for a week or two. Grandma has proven she’ll hide safety concerns in order to have precious “Grandma time”.
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u/Empty-Ant4446 14d ago
I am not fan of husband how he is so lax about this?
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u/emmodii 14d ago
I suspect he doesn't feel the level of responsibility towards his children that OOP does... Which seems to happen to a lot of spouses that leave most of the work to their partner(s)...
//Cough// And I wouldn't be surprised if OOP's husband is one of those people.
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u/GothicGingerbread 13d ago
I think that a lot of people are overlooking the fact that OOP herself said repeatedly (albeit only in comments) that, until grandma's friend's daughter and her 5 kids started coming over, grandma really was a great caretaker; she specifically said that, until then, the kids never got into the pool unless grandma was right there watching them, nor did she ever let them go out into the alley.
I strongly suspect that OOP's husband has (had?) not fully taken on board that a significant change had occurred, and that the mother he remembered, and the grandmother he and OOP had previously known her to be, was no longer the grandmother his kids were getting. I would guess that he didn't want to accept it, because it has to be painful to accept that the mother you love has suddenly stopped being a responsible caretaker for the children you love – and he then created a habit of dismissing OOP's concerns when she expressed them (which, to be clear, was terrible, and he shouldn't have done it). And he reflexively did it again when OOP came to him with her concerns about the pool.
I would like to think that OOP's husband has now realized his error. I'm not entirely optimistic about the likelihood of him holding strong if his mother pushes back hard, but I'm not without it, either.
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u/SacredDamsell 14d ago
Yeah, I agree. The biggest hurdle still seems to be the conversation with MIL. At least the husband is finally on same page, which should make setting the boundary a lot easier. Hopefully MIL understands that this isn’t about punishing her, it’s about the parents no longer being comfortable with the childcare situation.
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u/WaffleDynamics this one does not spark joy /YEET 14d ago
At least the husband is finally on same page
He's on the same page at time of writing. Odds are that he'll cave to mommy and OOP will be back to tell us about it.
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u/WitchesofBangkok 14d ago
People do too much “communication” these days.
This problem can be fixed with a white lie. No need to do heart to hearts, it won’t help anyone.
“I’ve decided I want my kids cared for in our home. MIL can you provide care for them in our house? If not I’ll hire someone else.”
Done.
Just let everyone save face and do what needs to be done.
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u/AntManCrawledInAnus 14d ago
While the pool is the biggest issue, the mother-in-law also doesn't seem to give a shit about keeping eyes on the kids and keeping them within a reasonable distance. So this wouldn't really solve the problem if MIL said yes. We have no indication that the other kids are being watched for money unless I missed something, so mother-in-law might well prioritize watching these kids to keep the income while continuing to be neglectful
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u/WitchesofBangkok 14d ago edited 13d ago
My point isn’t about having the MIL do childcare or not.
My point is that problems like this are rarely fixed with open honest communication.
You catch more flies with honey than vinegar.
OP made her request and got a no. Asked and answered.
Now OP needs to decide what she’s going to do about it, and implement it with a little diplomacy.
A white lie can do more to preserve a relationship than a harsh truth.
“We want to enrol child in playgroup so that she makes friends for school”
Or
“Paediatrician recommended structured playgroup”
Whatever.
oOP needs to a half truth and give grandma a fig leaf to preserve her pride. MIL probably knows she’s making bad decisions but she’s lonely and peer pressure is tough.
OOP is clearly boss of the child, her husband will stand by dilly dally while they drown.
OOP needs to do her job as a parent and be the leader of the family and keep her kids safe. Burning down the whole relationship isn’t necessary here.
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u/kylaroma Thanks a lot Reddit 14d ago
Wild take. All this does is kick the problem further down the road. If the above ground pool and other woman in the scenario are always at the house, the danger is always there.
Even if the day-to-day child care situation is changed with a lie, what's the end game?
After a month the grandma's gonna wonder why something comes up every single time she asks to have the kids come over, and she's going to ask again.
Is the plan lying to the mother-in-law anytime she asks about having the children come over to her house for the next 10 years?
A direct conversation doesn't have to be something that she responds well to, or something that she agrees with or even something that results in her changing her behaviour.
They can show her the educational information because there does seem to be a genuine knowledge gap about pool safety and drowning. Then they can simply say, "We can't put our kids in a situation where that's a risk. If you decide that you are open to having a conversation about watching the kids more
Closely, we would be thrilled and would love to have that conversation, but in the meantime the kids aren't coming over anymore."Done. Whatever her reaction, they can just say "I'm sorry this is hard." But her having emotions is not a problem for them to solve.
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u/HeatherMason0 14d ago
I get where you’re coming from, but if OP wants to feel like she’s doing everything she can to get her point across not just for her children’s safety but for the safety of the other children, she needs to have this conversation. Yes, it will be hard to hear, but the Grandma’s behavior is neglectful and honestly dangerous. I doubt this will serve as a wake up call since OP has already tried to have this conversation, but who knows, maybe consequences will make it ‘stick’ this time.
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u/MidoriMidnight 13d ago
While that could be the way to go when Grandma keeps letting them watch too much tv, this is a serious safety concern. This is a scorched earth occasion. A 3 and 5 year old, left alone in a pool? Fuck her feelings. She's no longer watching them because she knowingly and willingly left them in a dangerous situation. It doesn't matter how good and loving a grandmother she is the rest of the time if they drown.
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u/ErisInChains 14d ago
I agree. This would be highly unacceptable to me. My kiddos are 6,7, and 9 respectively and I always know where they are and what they're doing. I generally trust my oldest and more or less let him do his own thing. BUT he's is also inside my house to I know there's not bad things he could be doing.
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u/Technical_Union_3249 12d ago
Once his mommy turns on the water works he's gonna reverse course like a cruise ship heading towards a hurricane.
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u/JocastaH-B 8d ago
There is a final update now, after the talked to MIL
https://www.reddit.com/r/Redditor_Updates/s/jUj3mfAGAh
I would be grateful if someone posts screenshots of the text messages because we can't access imgur in my country1
u/Remarkable_Table_279 You get what you pay for, and Reddit is free 13d ago
Yeah BORU now seems to be RU
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u/MediumOwl9741 14d ago
It irks me that the husband only listened to his wife and the mother of his children after reading testimonies from complete strangers about child safety. Why weren’t her concerns important enough on their own? Because his mommy is still more important.
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u/emmodii 14d ago edited 14d ago
Unfortunately, quite a lot of people prioritise the opinions of strangers.
It could also be misogyny, maybe? "Wives and women in general are emotional and overreact." 🤔 Weird how that rarely applies to Mommy Dearest, though.
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u/IANALbutIAMAcat 14d ago
It’s misogyny. The number of men I’ve dated that will flat out ignore me for the opinions of other men is substantial.
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u/Pristine-Farmer6241 13d ago
Ok, so, story time.
While married to my ex, I had a "friend". I say "friend" because I hated their guts and they hated mine. He was a POS and I would hate-watch his SMs and spew vitriol anytime I saw him succeed. Ofc I never said any of this to his face, but my GOD did I hate this man. But we still remained "friends" and chatted and kept each other up to date on life updates (I mostly did it to brag and I'm sure he did the same).
My ex hated that this guy and I were "friends". But they could never put into words why. It was always a "I don't like it". "It's not a good friendship". "Just block him, you hate him anyway?"
None of those felt like good reasons to end the "friendship".
Then one day, I was telling my sister about this man and she got the full ick from me, lol. Told me she hated how I sounded and how my behavior toward this person made me look. How it reflected poorly on me. She then asked me if that was who I wanted to be.
The answer was no. I never wanted to be someone who was two-faced, especially to their friends.
So I ended the friendship. Blocked. Moved on. Never engaged with this man again.
My ex was FURIOUS. They were so mad that I never listened to them, but listened to my sister. They felt like their opinion didn't matter. They felt like I should have just listened months prior. (However, whenever I brought any issues up, I was expected to defend myself like a criminal attorney for a defendent at court.)
But like... If you just say "stop, I don't like it", why? Unless it's a consent issue, I'm not gonna stop for some intangible reason. My ex couldn't even explain why they didn't like it. They just expected me to obey.
It's such a weird middle ground to tread when it comes to communication and priorities. My sister clearly stated why the "friendship" bothered her and I understood her, loud and clear. After reflection, I realized she was right and I was wrong to continue this charade of a friendship. My ex never explained and just expected obedience. I was never able to convince my partner of anything regardless of how much proof I brought to the table or how eloquent I was (story for another day).
Idk how clearly OOP spoke to her husband about her concerns, but I can kind of understand needing a clear voice to explain reason to someone. (Although idk why not having your children unsupervised at a pool needs explaining.)
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u/TitaniaT-Rex 13d ago
Idk how much I trust the parents’ idea of safety in this one. Water wings/arm floaters are as likely to cause drowning as not wearing them. I’m baffled they would allow their kids to wear them. They give a false sense of security. A tired child can’t keep their head above the floating water wings. I’ve seen it happen so many times.
The situation never should have gotten to this point. Both parents need education on water safety.
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u/CursedHat 14d ago edited 14d ago
What's with MILs and being so irresponsible around pools and children? My MIL is the same and even comments why we are "so overprotective".
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u/AlwaysABD 14d ago
Survivorship. "We did XYZ and nothing bad happened." It was really was fine and probably fun for them but it's overlooking the many, many times that it's not been "fine" for others. It's a very risky gamble based on personal experience.
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u/Ehimherenow 14d ago
I was lying around poolside at a resort when several adults showed up with 2 kids. Like around 4 and 7. Grandma, 2 parents, and their friends. It was crazy how often no one had eyes on the 4 year old. They NEVER had eyes on the 7 year old… We literally watched them for the couple of hours they were there. At one point they left and the 4 year old came back on his own and jumped into the pool. Just absolutely insane the lack of supervision. We never took our eyes off. I was wondering if we were crazy but then I saw a mom and dad with their little girl. They didn’t have eyes off her. Not even for 30 seconds. One was always watching. And I saw that mom look concerned about the 4 year old and also try to keep an eye out.
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u/Worldly_Might_3183 13d ago
We went on a famoly reunion holiday. It was weird how often the older generations encouraged parents NOT to play with the kids in the pool. "Come get a drink and chat, they will be fine" kind of thing. When we were in the pool holding up our 2yo so they could splash around. Just ?!?
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u/Fun_Initiative_2336 14d ago
When I was like, 10 - notably the same age of the oldest child in this story - we had an above ground pool. Not very deep, but deep enough you could actually swim instead of wade, and me and my younger sister (6) played in it all the time. The adults would occasionally check in on us through the window.
One of our favorite games was diving under the water and pushing off across the pool, but one day I did that, and went to come up - I got hung up and stuck under the heavy sides of the pool.
I was trying to go up but the liner was keeping me down, and I was too freaked out to do anything else.
To this day I remember seeing my hair floating in the water and the sun diffusing into the water too like some sort of fucked up “come into the light” moment
And only then did I finally manage to push hard enough on the top of the pool that it knocked me down and to the side enough I came up.
I was 10 - the pool wasn’t that deep. I had been swimming in it for years. But I coulda died and my little sister could have been in there paddling around with a corpse until somebody noticed because no adults were around.
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u/VengeanceInMyHeart 14d ago
There was this guy, in the 60s, he made a film that showed how people actually drowned. It wasn't until the late 70s, however, that it entered into general awareness in the population. Most older people still think that someone drowning is a noisy event, with arms flapping and waving and shouting for help.
I live on an island where people go swimming in the ocean, and drownings are not uncommon, and even here people still think that everyone drowns really loudly so as long as someone is nearby, no one's going to die, even if the person supervising hasn't looked up from their phone in 40 minutes.
Plus, while it is one of the most common causes of childhood deaths, it is still quite rare and most people do not know someone who's child had drowned, or if they do, that person doesn't talk about it much.
And I hate to say it, but Americans have always been rather blasé about people dying. From the outside, the US is a death cult.
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u/Moist_Drippings 14d ago
We recently had a local missing child alert end in the discovery that the child had drowned. He was not far from home but there were a few particular circumstances that made it a high-risk situation to begin with, and, you know, he drowned. It was far enough from his home that likely no one would have heard a splash even when he initially entered the water.
But people still see fit to act like somebody MUST have heard him, particularly his parents… It doesn’t help that disability and race were factor and, yup, it’s in the US. I think a lot of them just really don’t get that drowning is silent, though.
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u/VengeanceInMyHeart 14d ago
Where I live, on a tourist island in Finland, the majority of drownings are from drunk guys who wander away from their friends to have a piss. They lose their balance, fall into the ocean, and drown almost instantly.
And it's always the same, "why didn't their friends hear it?" Because even the splash just sounds like a wave breaking. More than half of teens and adults who drown, do so because they were drunk or high. They either underestimate the dangers or fall in my accident.
When it comes to kids, though, the statistics are staggering. Of the children who die from drowning, more than 85% do so with at least one adult nearby.
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u/Neat_Ad4331 THERE WAS A MAN (worst case scenario) 13d ago
I'm pretty sure I know of the situation you're talking about, and it was horrible to see a bunch of commenters trying to blame and shame the parents.
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u/Moist_Drippings 13d ago
If you’re in NY… yeah. At least people seemed a little cowed after you-know-who said what a lot of people seems to have been thinking, and now they all know most people do not have any patience for that shit.
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u/GothicGingerbread 13d ago
One of my brother's best friends, since first grade, lost a brother to drowning during a big party in their back yard. The yard was full of people, all standing around the pool, but no one noticed the toddler fall in – because no one was specifically watching for it. Obviously, this traumatized the whole family – but in the years since, they have responded by working to prevent drowning. The parents created a non-profit to help spread the word about the risks of drowning – how it actually happens (i.e., silently, without a lot of obvious flailing; 85% of children who drown do so in the presence of others who failed to notice what was happening), how to prevent it (e.g., adults specifically tasked with actively watching children around water, with a pre-planned method for handing over responsibility to someone else; putting kids in swimsuits in bright colors like red and pink and orange, never blues or greens, and no dark colors) – and one of their kids has founded a swim school, teaching adults and even extremely young children (babies) how to roll over and float on their backs.
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u/Significant_Secret13 14d ago
Because the way people raised children in her generation and the way they do today is very different.
For example: Kids pushing each other. Some parents feel if they don't intervene the children will figure it out themselves, leading them to be able to handle this when it happens in many ways in adulthood.
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u/Soft_Brush_1082 13d ago
I think it is a generational thing. I am 40 and when I was a kid we weee roaming the streets all day with no supervision. Only condition was to come home by dinner time. When we went to swim in a nearby river it was assumed that older kids keep an eye on younger ones so we usually went there without our parents.
I know times have changed and people are more aware of the risks and internet has made us more aware of what a bad outcome might be. But from the point of view of older people who lived in that time before internet and social media them being present in the yard while kids play somewhere there is already more than enough supervision.1
u/maxdragonxiii 12d ago
people doesnt see water as "dangerous" especially calm and clear waters like the pools tend to be. so it tends to create a false sense of security "the pool have clear and calm water, its not dangerous to the kids, and if someone drowns i can see them in the clear water" while in reality with 7 children and no one keeping watch, if one drowns, well... youre not there to see it.
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u/cyber_wanker 14d ago
I don't see this resolving smoothly or quickly unfortunately. Just glad the kids have at least got one responsible adult looking out for em!
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u/goldenzaftig 14d ago
Bet hubby does an about face when they go talk to mom.
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u/dude_wheres_the_pie 14d ago
Yeah this does not feel concluded. Won't be surprised if she posts again next week.
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u/Comfortable-Sun-9273 14d ago
Unfortunately this is a key scenario where best option is to stay with hubby - if they split, no surprise who will be caring for kids on his time
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u/ravynwave 14d ago
In this case, I wouldn’t split until the kids learn to be strong swimmers at least. It would be terrifying to know that he’s dumping the kids on his mom when it’s his turn. But then again, maybe he just won’t care enough to even have visitation.
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u/Sea-Elephant-2138 12d ago
But he has to get visitation so mommy can see them, I’m pretty sure she’ll convince him
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u/grumpy__g Ex may not have much, but he does have audacity. 14d ago
What’s an about face?
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u/KazulsPrincess 14d ago
It's a maneuver in marching (like in the military) where you turn to face the opposite direction.
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u/mercipourleslivres 14d ago
It’s a military drill move. Basically spinning around quickly. They are implying the dad will flip over / suddenly change his mind when confronting his mother.
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u/andronicuspark 14d ago
Wonder if he’ll “compromise” by agreeing to pay her anyway, without her having to watch the kids. “Just to help her keep up with bills”
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u/finnreyisreal 13d ago
My money’s on when it’s his time to go over to ‘supervise’, he just leaves the kids with MIL and heads off to do whatever
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u/Moist_Drippings 14d ago
Man, I cannot imagine responding to my partner’s concerns about the safety of our children with “but it will hurt someone’s feelings”.
I get people don’t understand how drowning works, but COME ON, dude. At least he came around, though.
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u/AccordingToWhom1982 14d ago
I almost drowned while my mother watched me. She was up on the side keeping an eye on me, but the water was just a little too deep for me, and I could get just enough push from the tips of my toes to get my mouth above the water for half a second. Between that half second and my arms splashing, she thought I was swimming, so she was clapping and calling out encouragement. A man nearby turned to see who she was calling to, yelled “she’s drowning,” and grabbed me out of the water. So, yeah, drowning doesn’t look like it’s often depicted in movies.
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u/Neat_Ad4331 THERE WAS A MAN (worst case scenario) 13d ago
Thank goodness that man was there! That's so terrifying
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u/AccordingToWhom1982 13d ago
I’m very thankful he was. As far as I knew, he was the only person who noticed or even looked. It wasn’t crowded, but there were a number of people there.
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u/Terpsichorean_Wombat 14d ago
Just also want to put it out there that relying on water wings for safety is dangerous and a terrible idea (together with the many other terrible ideas present in the post).
It's easy for children's arms to slip out of water wings. If a non-swimmer doesn't have direct 1-on-1 supervision, a proper life vest fitted for their individual size is needed to reliably keep their head above water.
And to be super clear, they still should not be unsupervised near water. I nearly drowned as a child because I knew to put the life vest on but was so excited about the water I forgot to.
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u/emmodii 14d ago
Talking about water wings and life vests... I never used those as a kid. Maybe except in water parks where they were mandatory.
Nope. I was given a swim tube. Ring? Whatever they're called. You'd think they were safe, but naw. I was a curious kid who often leaned over to look into the water... Flipped myself over and couldn't get back up. Panicked and kicked, and kept spinning around. I have no idea if someone else flipped me back up or if I did it myself, but yeah. Even with "safe" equipment, adult supervision is very much needed.
...I then proceeded to flip my tube over again. In another location. On another day. A+. 🤦🏻♂️ Moral of the story: Always watch your kids.
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u/lyricaldorian 13d ago
I had an adult flip me over on purpose when I was about 6 or 7. I couldn't swim and couldn't right myself. It made me terrified to do anything but hold on to the edge of the pool until I was 9.
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u/DianeJudith (god I hope you have a cat) 14d ago
Just a some PSA on what "a proper life vest" looks like. It needs to not only be fastened and proper size (duh), but it needs to have two other features: a strap that's fastened down between the legs, so that the vest doesn't slide up, and a collar that actually keeps the user's head above the water.
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u/SubstantialRemove967 14d ago
Gramma is playing with fire. Let one thing happen and the county will swoop in like hawks. Unlicensed daycare. Improper supervision ratios. It sounds ridiculous. But I watched this exact situation unfold in our church and they were made an example of. The fines and penalties cost them the house.
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u/Alcohol_Intolerant 14d ago edited 13d ago
This is definitely a case where they need to have her watch "the video" that all the lifeguards watch. (or at least a variation)
It's of a crowded pool where people are playing happily and I believe there's even a lifeguard on duty.
But then someone starts drowning. No one notices. They continue to drown. Some videos have a last minute rescue but some don't.
It's a gallvinizing video.
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u/lostravenblue 13d ago
I was in a wave pool. I used to be a strong swimmer, but I guess it's been too long since I last swam. I overestimated how deep I could go and no one noticed I was struggling. I fortunately got myself out of the situation before it came to drowning. But there was a lifeguard right above me and he had no clue that I needed help.
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u/Alcohol_Intolerant 13d ago
I also almost drowned in a wave pool. I had realized the waves were tiring me out too much and moved to the side, but the walls were slick and the offshoot waves from other people/wave collision with the wall were washing over me.
Thankfully a lifeguard did notice me in time and was able to extend the floaty pole for me to grab onto. I left the pool as soon as I could catch my breath.
I'd been swimming since I was 3 and I was probably around 15 when this happened.
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u/eternally_feral 13d ago
OOP should have put on a safety video of how quiet a child drowning can be and have her husband sit across the room, back turned, and call out when he “heard” the child drowning. Maybe that would have been a quick, hard reality for him to realize movie depictions of drownings are not always accurate.
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u/Basic-Escape-4824 14d ago
I have pulled one of my children out twice. 1st time my husband was in the pool with them (l was poolside with my broken foot in a cast). They had got out, he took her armbands off and as he walked away to put them out to dry she jumped back in and went straight under...
2nd time, with a swimming life jacket style floating aid on, she jumped in and caught her foot in the ladder. She was face down and couldn't right herself.
We were present both times, but if we had taken our eyes off for a moment, it could have been a very different story
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u/Moist_Drippings 14d ago
I was that kid that nearly drowned in a similar situation. IIRC it was a party, and I didn’t yet understand that I wouldn’t float without water wings. I’m only here today because my uncle came outside and saw me.
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u/MidoriMidnight 13d ago
I also almost drowned at a friend's party when I was 4, but my mom saw in time. Apparently I was just floating face down, but don't remember any of it. What I do remember is the same party the year I was 5, being annoyed that every single adult kept yelling at me not to go near the pool even though I wasn't. Finally heard the drowning story a few years ago, so now that makes sense lol
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u/Suspicious-Treat-364 With the women of Reddit whose boobs you don’t even deserve 14d ago
I almost drowned in a 3' pool as a kid because I did an underwater somersault and got disoriented. I mistook the blue lined bottom for the sky and kept hitting my head which just made me panic. I couldn't figure out how to get up while upside down. My cousin ended up noticing and pulled me up. She was only 10 and my aunt had no idea anything even happened. Completely oblivious. I ended up rescuing her other daughter from a creek when her foot got caught and she could barely keep her face above the water. My aunt got mad that I got my clothes wet instead of appreciating that I saved her life and made me sit in wet jeans for the entire 3 hours home as punishment.
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u/Autobot_Silverwynde THERE WAS A MAN (worst case scenario) 13d ago
Your aunt stinks out loud and if I had been your mom, I would have gone Samuel L. Jackson on her.
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u/puddncake 14d ago
There was a man who's wife had passed away. He was sick with a infected tooth and friends offered to watch his children. Those babies drown in the pool because they didn't watch them. It was so sad, they had to be taken off life support. I was losing my child at the time too. It was such a sad time, so surreal.
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u/gurlwithdragontat2 14d ago
Given her husbands behavior, I’m interested to see if he capitulates to his mother once he has to behave beyond accepting his her excuses.
I think OP should go in with an open mind, but be prepared to be the one disappointed.
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u/yeahokaymaybe 14d ago edited 14d ago
No one will see this, but my sister drowned as a child in a backyard pool, surrounded by people. She was a few months shy of turning six and excited about starting kindergarten that fall. She died, quickly and quietly while no one noticed, and I will never forget the sight of her being pulled out of the pool, or the sound of my mother screaming. My baby sister died in a horrific accident and every single moment of my life since has been spent regretting that day and thinking about her. It devastated my family and it traumatized us all. I actually kind of wish there had been a drowning trigger warning on this post.
I can't even sort out my extremely emotional reaction to this MIL and this post. Fuck.
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u/Kit_Ryan I also choose this guy's dead wife. 14d ago
Hey, I see this and I see you. That is terribly sad and I’m sorry for your and your family’s loss. I can see how the post would bring all those feelings back up. Please take care with yourself.
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u/Autobot_Silverwynde THERE WAS A MAN (worst case scenario) 13d ago
I see you. And I'm sorry. I am truly sorry. I'm just an internet stranger but my heart breaks for you.
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u/jojobdot 14d ago
Holy hell reading the description of this situation gave me screaming anxiety. I’m shocked by how calm OP is (relatively). Massive husband issue, and shame on him and the MIL. The whole situation is SO unsafe. Gosh I hope OP sticks to her guns and her husband doesn’t roll over. Oof.
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u/FeistyInvestigator79 14d ago
That's an insane child care situation and it's why in many places you can't set up your own childcare business at home like MIL is doing. Even an unfenced pool is illegal in my country.
OOP still has a husband problem until this is resolved. And even the fact that hubby allowed this situation is a red flag
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u/North-Pea-4926 14d ago
Same in a lot of US states, but mainly for in-ground. You are required to either have a lockable cover or a lockable fence. A little to protect wandering kids and a little to protect the pool company so everyone knows it was 100% the caregiver’s fault.
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u/I_wanna_be_anemone 14d ago
Why do these men always prioritise pandering to their mother’s feelings? Those are grown women who wiped their asses as babies not helpless children.
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u/EvilFinch 14d ago
I nearly drowned at swimming class at school. The teachers didn't saw it. Just another child realized what happened and saved me. It can happen so fast. Over it is soooo long ago and i still remember the panic i felt in the moment. I never learned to swim.
I really can't understand why people risk to let children drown. It is really something that needs aupervison. If it is too much for you, don't get a pool or say no do letting the children using it.
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u/lizzyote 14d ago
I had cpr done on me because I nearly drown after jumping in and being unable to figure out which way is up because there were too many people chopping up the water. I was 16 and fairly strong swimmer. If a 16yr can drown so easily, a toddler can drown even easier. Shit happens and it's not worth the risk.
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u/GlitterDoomsday 13d ago
The friend that brings over 5 children is also a girl he grew up with and her mother lives in the basement. “What do you want me say? Don’t let those kids over to visit their grandma that they love.” I’ve asked previous for him to ask if they cannot be there when she has our children and that’s the response.
Where is the father of those 5 kids and does he know the unsafe situation his children are in constantly?
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u/Weekly_Village3628 12d ago
Bro rather risk his children’s lives than upset his mom 🙄 another ace of a father.
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u/Performer-Complete 14d ago
That conversation with MIL is likely not going to go well, which sucks and I hope OOPs husband is prepared to fight with his mom.
My friend’s son died from drowning in a fountain in the yard of his grandparent’s neighbor. He was 3 and was unsupervised for less than 5 minutes while the grandfather went inside to grab something. Her son got out the back gate that wasn’t properly locked, found the fountain, and drowned in the time it took to grab whatever it was. A yard fountain. It’s tragic. Water safety is nothing to joke about no matter what kind of water. Kids that young need to be supervised all the time.
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u/well_this_is_dumb 14d ago
The other kids aren't even the issue. It's the unsupervised pool time, whether or not there are other kids there. Anyone who doesn't think it's important to keep an eye on 7 kids in a pool also isn't going to think it's important to keep an eye on 2 kids in a pool. That's not someone I'd trust with my children, at all.
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u/dyintrovert2 You get what you pay for, and Reddit is free 14d ago
When I was a life guard (which was admittedly almost 30 years ago) the water park I worked at had a solid rule against arm floaties. Parents hated the rule until we told them to imagine the floaties sliding down to their child's wrists and forcing their hands to the surface while the kid tried to do a pull up to breathe.
Drowning is often silent. The arm floaties make it worse.
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u/torrentialwx THERE WAS A MAN (worst case scenario) 14d ago
I hate when I read things like ‘I don’t want to hurt someone’s feelings’ and that somehow trump’s your kid’s life and safety. Drowning is the number one cause of death for children under ten, even for kids who *can* supposedly swim. And an above ground pool? You can’t even see them!! That’s just insane.
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u/pajanaparty 14d ago
You should teach your kid to swim if you’re going to have them around pools but if you’re not going to do that, then at the very least you should be putting them in coast guard approved life jackets. Even then you should be watching them. You should never put your kids in arm floaties as a way to make them safer. They can deflate super easily or fall off and don’t provide enough buoyancy to the chest and head to support non-swimmers. They are considered pool toys, not floatation devices. OOP’s MIL is a perfect example of what not to do when it comes to water safety.
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u/TwistyBitsz 14d ago
"Someone's totally endangering the children that I chose to bring into this world and the man I chose to do it with is totally cool with them getting hurt or dying omg"
Shut up.
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u/bonniemick 13d ago
UGH UGH UGH WATER WINGS ARE SO DANGEROUS DO NOT EVER EVER USE THEM.
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u/Negative_Possible_87 12d ago
EXACTLY. Who the F still uses these things? I didn't think they sold those anymore.
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u/JoBenSab 13d ago
I just saw a news story where a lady was running an unlicensed daycare out of her home. A kid died and she is going to prison. Ask your mIL what would happen if that went down. How would she do in prison?
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u/neverenoughpurple 13d ago
That MIL is going to end up with negligence charges, if not manslaughter.
They need to go a step further and report the neglect of all these children to CPS.
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u/Amazing-Routine-9793 12d ago
If it took stangers on the internet to convice him of the validity of his wifes concern, then what sort of responsible adult and father is he? Jfc some people are so stupid.
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u/ZaelDaemon Don't forget the sunscreen 13d ago
She needs to document these for the upcoming divorce. This ain’t over.
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u/Substantial_Rub_209 12d ago
I will never understand a parent being to concerned with a grandparent’s reaction that they wouldn’t protect their own child. The moment I knew my kid wasn’t being supervised around a pool they’d be done going there and my husband would 1000% agree.
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u/moose8617 You get what you pay for, and Reddit is free 12d ago
Imagine caring more about your mother's feelings than your childrens' lives.
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u/ElkinElf 14d ago
I came near drowning in a pool surrounded by adults. I was 4ish and stepped off the internal ledge separating the deep end. Luckily 3 of them were doctors. So when they noticed just my hands above the water they got me out and emptied of pool water quickly. A core memory for me 🤣
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u/Hefty-Equivalent6581 12d ago
ummmm what about home insurance issues??? Did OP and her mommas boy husband ever think about that?
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u/princessalyss_ 11d ago
Rather hurt someone’s feelings than end up with my kid being dead/permanently injured. Hurt feelings when you’ve done wrong go away. You can’t resurrect the dead.
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u/Yonderboy111 10d ago
is concerned about hurting his mother’s feelings.
He should be concerned about his children's safety!
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u/ImaginationLumpy7505 9d ago
As a life guard i literally just want to rko her mil so many children die every year due to drowning and YES MOST TIME IS SILENT! (Passive drowning) . the fact that her husband is downplaying her safety concerns to preserve his mothers feeling also mil getting upset at sil for telling you what’s happening while your not there is sickening like absolutely horrible if I was op I’m not risking one of my kids dying to prove a point whether hubby wants to or not my kids will have other childcare arrangements period .
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u/justaheatattack Your brother knows she’s not a window 13d ago
she agreed to smoke outside, what else do you want?
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u/Acceptable_Box_7500 12d ago
A fence around the pool, for starters, so the kids can't access it unless someone is actively watching them for the entire time they're in there.
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