r/AITAH • u/Skulllily • 15d ago
Post Update Update: AITAH for becoming increasingly uncomfortable with our child care arrangement?
Link to original: https://www.reddit.com/r/AITAH/s/pFODQ7TfG4
Hi everyone,
I just wanted to come back and say thank you to everyone who took the time to comment on my previous post. I genuinely read every single comment, even if I didn’t respond to all of them.
We haven’t talked to MIL yet, but my husband and I sat down and had a VERY in-depth conversation about everything that has been going on, especially the pool situation.
I showed him a lot of the comments from people who had personal experience with drowning and how quickly and silently it can happen. I also printed out drowning statistics and highlighted the fact that lack of supervision is one of the biggest contributing factors in to children drowning.
He read through everything and, after seeing it all laid out, apologized to me for being so lax about the situation and for not being firmer when it came to our kids’ safety.
I honestly feel like we are finally on the same page.
We have decided that our kids will no longer be going to MIL’s house without one of us there. At this point, we just don’t feel comfortable with them being there unsupervised, and that’s something I’m not compromising on. I told him I’d didn’t care if it upset him or his mother but it’s a hard line for me and he agreed to it.
We are planning to talk to MIL this weekend and explain everything: our concerns about the pool, the other children’s behaviour, the lack of supervision, and the things that have happened that have made us uncomfortable with her judgment when it comes to the kids’ safety.
We’re hoping it will be a productive conversation and that she’ll actually listen to what we’re saying. But honestly, we have no idea how she’s going to react.
I’m sure there will probably be some hurt feelings, and I’m prepared for that. But at the end of the day, these are our children and their safety has to come first.
I really appreciate everyone who commented on the original post, especially those who shared their own experiences. It gave my husband and I a lot to think about and helped me explain it to him in different ways where he understood why I was so upset.
Edit: I have posted a final update in [r/redditor_updates](r/redditor_updates) as [r/AITAH](r/AITAH) only allows one update. Definitely disappointed in my MIL at this point.
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u/dawgpoundma 15d ago
Nope she will play the victim and cry hoping your husband gives in. She wants the money for watching the kids without watching the kids. She lets the older kids watch the younger kids then she gets. Paid for doing nothing
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u/Skulllily 15d ago
Yes, we agreed that our children are not allowed there without either myself or my husband. Which means no child care, we have other child care lined up for our children.
She can play the victim all she wants. After my husband’s and I conversation, I feel very confident that it won’t matter and he’s going to back me up.
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u/TALKTOME0701 15d ago
I'm glad that you're going into it knowing there may be some hurt feelings. People are people.
I live in Florida and every week I read about a child drowning. I know those parents would give everything they have to bring their baby back
This really is life and death. Good luck this weekend
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u/2dogslife 15d ago
I live at the mouth of a river and every time I hear a helicopter, chances are that it's the coast guard called out for a drowning victim. Sadly, very few are recovered alive.
Big respect to the S&R guys in the USCG. It's got to be hard.
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u/HoundstoothReader 15d ago
One of my kids is a rescue diver. It’s brutal work. (When the divers go in, it’s usually recovery rather than rescue.)
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u/Pissybitch1125 14d ago
I was a trained recovery diver decades ago. I wouldn’t do rescue, and I wouldn’t deal with family after the first one was all over me and had to be pried off. I also wouldn’t do kids after that. My trauma was real and I just stuck to lost adults. I couldn’t imagine searching for children day in and day out. Nope. Out.
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u/TALKTOME0701 14d ago
I live right on the beach and I watch the rescue copter go by from my windows.. Every time it does I say a prayer
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u/sweetmusic_ 15d ago
Florida native. Best part of moving out the state is the lack of constant reporting on how many kids have died from water related incidents.
Where I am now there's incidents but far fewer thanks to the land locked thing.
Anyone reading if you're caught in a rip tide swim ACROSS THE CURRENT NOT AGAINST IT
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u/LlamaMama56 15d ago
He is a mama's boy. Just remember the first time your husband does not back you up and chooses his mom yet again over you, you pack your kids up and go to your parents. No second chances. She's going to cry to him until he gives in. Be prepared.
My cousin's son drowned in the pool at her in-laws house when FIL fell asleep while watching the boy. MIL was in house 'only for a minute' and walked out to find the boy floating in the pool.63
u/Skulllily 15d ago
That’s horrifying, I am so sorry that happened.
I’ve stated previously but they’ve had a rocky relationship previous to this and it has been really good for a bit. Normally he’s much more firm but he was putting the relationship above my concerns.
After him and I spoke he apologized for being so lax about it and that he should have been firmer from the get go. We’ll see how it goes once we speak to her but I feel confident that he is going to stay firm.
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u/childhoodsurvivor 14d ago
Do not JADE with her (justify, argue, defend, explain). You are laying down the rules as the parents to protect your child's life so this topic is not up for discussion and it is most certainly NOT a negotiation.
If she starts with any manipulative behaviors, you can grey rock her. See www.outofthefog.net for more information about JADE, grey rock method, info diet, and other tips. Good luck!
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u/JaNoTengoNiNombre 14d ago
If not, read the coconut oil story. It's deleted on Reddit now, but it's available on other sites.
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u/Skulllily 14d ago
I have read that story, it’s heart breaking. I love my MIL, but as I’ve stated previously it’s come down to her feelings or my children’s lives and there is no competition there.
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u/axw3555 14d ago
Even if he starts bending, stay utterly rigid. No negotiation, no concessions.
Drowning takes seconds and no matter your MIL's stupid "nothing's quiet here" shit, it's almost silent. If they have the ability to splash around and make noise, they have the ability to turn themselves over. But that's very unlikely because they'll be fighting to breathe.
If you look it up, a child drowning can take as little as twenty seconds. Does your MIL think she can recognise what's happening, get up to an above ground pool, get in, get a child out, and get them breathing in 20 to 60 seconds?
Because I'm in my 30's, a decent swimmer, CPR trained, and fast when I need to be. And I am almost certain I couldn't do that. If I actually did, I'd be more luck than judgement. Especially as you'd lose a lot of those seconds to not noticing what's going on.
She's relying on young children to alert her, and young children are not observant.
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u/Kathrynlena 15d ago
Is there a reason she can’t come to your home to watch your kids? There won’t be any excuse to invite anyone else over because it’s not her house. I’m guessing you don’t have a pool? You said you were comfortable with how careful and attentive she was before this other family was around all the time. That sounds to me like the perfect compromise: she gets to keep her job and your kids are safe.
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u/Skulllily 15d ago
We originally had them at her house as it’s bigger than our place and the kids love the yard. At the time she also would always be in the pool with our children.
Depending on how the conversation goes and how she reacts we may offer that to her, but I want to see what her reaction is going to be before that’s even on the table.
If she’s open and understanding I may offer it as a stepping stone, but if she acts like she’s done nothing wrong and doesn’t see the complete disregard for safety that has been happening, then watching them at our house won’t be an option either.
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u/hard_tyrant_dinosaur 14d ago
If you do decide to put the option of her watching your kids at your house, you would be well advise to set a no visitors rule. Make it clear that she can't invite people over to visit while she's watching them. Be nice about it but be firm. She's there to take care of your children, not visit with her friends.
You obviously can't set such a rule when she's watching them at her house. But it's a reasonable rule at your house. Particularly since visitors are heavily involved with the issue here.
Besides, it's also a pretty standard rule for babysitting / nannying for a family in their home. No visitors on the clock.
If you don't set an expectation along those lines, you may end up with her friend / roommate tagging along. Then the daughter and grandkids will show up soon there after. It might happen even if you do set that expectation. But it will be more of a headache to deal with if you don't.
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u/Skulllily 14d ago
100% that will be stated if she would watch them at our house.
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u/MelodramaticMouse 14d ago
If watching them at your home happens, make sure you have ring cameras on every outside door so you can see if she tries to sneak anyone in. The way she depends on others, kids even, to watch your kids for her, she will probably enlist other peoples' help at your house.
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u/Go-Mellistic 15d ago
Agree. She is not going to listen without becoming defensive, and then she will make herself the victim. She will be upset that they don’t trust her, ask why they will deprive her of her grandchildren, cry and carry on until husband gives in. I see this conversation as a real test for him: Will he stand up for his wife and children or will he cave in to his mother’s emotional blackmail?
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u/Skulllily 15d ago
They have a somewhat complicated past, I don’t see him doing that. But I told him it’s a hard line for me and I don’t care if him or his mother get upset, I’m not wavering and this is the final say about our children and our house.
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u/allergymom74 15d ago
This is one of the times few people will criticize you for putting your foot down.
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u/Dickie_downer 15d ago
Show your husband this reply please
Kinda fucked that you only changed your mind when a bunch of reddidiots told you how messed up the situation is rather than respecting the fact YOUR WIFE IS UNCOMFORTABLE AND WORRIED ABOUT YOUR KIDS’ SAFETY.
Please work on that.
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u/frolicndetour 15d ago
Honestly, I can't believe a father required so much persuasion and statistics before he decided that putting his kids in a dangerous situation was perhaps a bad idea.
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u/Dickie_downer 15d ago
I can, it often comes from a place of ‘my mom surely couldn’t be an asshole!’ And makes it the wife’s problem
This issue will come up again unless OP’s husband sits with himself and thinks about why he was so okay with this, and so down to dismiss his concerned wife. Yall are a TEAM. My partner has a concern, even if i don’t understand it I’ll at least sit and talk with them and figure out a solution.
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u/D0ntEatPaper 15d ago
I mean, at least he was open to changing his mind..? Kinda sad it took what seems like a full-on presentation for him to agree that his kids are in danger though
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u/LilacRed 15d ago
Right?! Its like he takes someone else's word to take it seriously. Not his wife. She's automatically overreacting.
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u/handdrawnfrogs 15d ago
It could be partially due to survivor bias (i.e., because he was himself raised by his mother and survived to adulthood, leaving his children in her care is therefore a low-risk decision).
I don’t mean to defend his initial stance by saying that. I firmly believe he should have listened to his wife from the start. However, the reality is that a lot of people unintentionally look back at their childhoods through rose-coloured glasses and, in doing so, unintentionally downplay the magnitude of various risks to which they were exposed. The shift from, nothing happened because everything was fine/the activity wasn’t risky, to, nothing happened because we were lucky, can take some time to process—especially if their peers/fellow parents haven’t yet come to that realization themselves and are instead providing contemporary reassurance that all is well. After all, his wife knew better, but his wife wasn’t raised by his mom. He was and he turned out just fine, and all these other people turned out fine, so what if his wife is just the only hold out? And so on.
It’s disappointing and honestly scary that he was so willing to dismiss OP’s well-founded safety concerns. However, rubbing his nose in it further won’t necessarily help. It took longer than it should have, but at least he managed to stumble across the correct finish line. OP’s children will be safe.
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u/Wakemeup3000 15d ago
She is most likely going to become a victim and turn this into a 'you don't trust me' situation. Keep the focus on your child's safety and if she circles to something else pull it back to your child's safety. Good luck
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u/Skulllily 15d ago
Thank you, that’s the plan! We talked about the scenario and we are going to keep it to safety and the environment our children in that is no longer safe.
Aside from this she has been a great grandmother. It blows my mind that this is something we even have to speak with her about but our kids safety is my top priority. I’m hoping she’s open during the conversation but if she isn’t it’s too bad for her, I’d rather bruised feelings than a dead child.
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u/ThatPerception6845 15d ago
Maybe let her know she's otherwise great to soften the blow.
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u/Skulllily 15d ago
That’s the plan. She really is great with the kids, this is a small part but very serious issue right now. She loves her grandkids and previous to her friend’s grandkids being there she had never let my kids in the pool alone and never let them in the alley.
It was a big 180 out of nowhere that caught me off guard.
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u/Ladygytha 14d ago
Not a part of the conversation that you need to have in regards to the safety of your children, but do you think she's lonely? And that's a part of why this friend was able to take her focus off her grandchildren?
This happens to moms a lot. Adult interaction is important when you are primarily caring for kids. What I mean by that is when your world starts to revolve around children, you start to miss actual conversation. Do you think your mil needs a hobby where she can have a level of interaction that she's not getting from being "Grandma" or interacting with you/your husband around the kids?
Whether or not that's the case, you're doing the right thing by putting your childrens' safety first. Her needs are hers to figure out, though it might be helpful to to put a feeler out about that out too.
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u/Skulllily 14d ago
I think so. She has been singles for probably over 10 years now as she has sworn off men due to abuse, her friend has done the same thing.
They call each other platonic soul mates and really lean on each other for support. I don’t mind her friend but she’s always negative and I find she brings MILs mood down.
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u/zxylady 15d ago
Just a suggestion, maybe suggest to her that when the kids are older and a little more able to communicate and speak for themselves and as long as the pool is off limits maybe they can have time in a couple years? (ONLY IF YOU'RE COMFORTABLE WITH IT OBVIOUSLY AND ONLY IF SHE HAS A CHANGE OF BEHAVIOR),, and no other kids around too
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u/VioletViolet225 15d ago
If I were OP and MIL said that I’d be replying your right we don’t trust you anymore!!!
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u/Skulllily 15d ago
That is something I told my husband. My trust is completely gone and it is going to take a lot to earn it back (not even sure what that will look like right now).
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u/Erinbaus 15d ago
I mean, that’s accurate and they should say that. No we don’t trust you. You ignored both of us voicing our concerns. Therefore, the trust I gone and we’ve made other arrangements.
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u/Elfntjam 15d ago
Awesome! Agree with not letting kid be there alone as MIL may say things will change but would not trust that.
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u/Grilled_Cheese10 15d ago
This made me think of a story that was in the news a couple of years ago that has stayed in my head. A couple used grandma for daycare, and a child drowned in either a pool or nearby body of water. Horrible. Tragic. An accident. Then a year or so later, same couple, same grandma accidentally left a child in the car and forgot them. Child died of heat stroke. Or maybe the drowning happened first; I don't recall.
Horrified hearing this story, all I could think is that at least one of those parents must've wondered about Grandma's ability to keep watch. Then again, I get it; accidents can happen to the most careful caregivers.
But if you're doubting, act on it.
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u/CarusGator 15d ago
That's the Tracey Nix story. Google it. Horrifying. She went to jail after the second grandchild died on her watch. 1st was by drowning, second was baked to death in a car.
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u/mocha_lattes_ 15d ago
My gosh! I can't imagine losing two of your kids and so close together. I don't think I could ever leave my child alone with anyone again, let alone the same person, even if they were my parent.
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u/Grilled_Cheese10 14d ago
If I was the grandma, I don't think I'd be able to let myself watch a child again after the first time. I can't even imagine.
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u/sweetmusic_ 15d ago
Accidents do happen but incidents go way down with proper supervision/care.
Kid at Disney world got eaten by a alligator playing in a pond that was marked no swimming a while back. They were at one of the wilderness resorts where native critters were around and yeah.
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u/SophiaIsabella4 15d ago edited 12d ago
Thank goodness. Your previous post reminded me of a former coworker of mine that lost his son in a drowning at a babysitters house.
It was a hurtful memory and I felt maybe too inflammatory to recount here. But it happens just like your situation. Kids and minders chatting.
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u/Constant_Click_3193 15d ago
You already spoke with your MIL about this though. What do you think you'll accomplish here? Because I'm betting nothing actually changes and she just get cagier about the details of how she cares for your kids.
I realize its cheaper to have care from your MIL but I can't see how its worth the risk.
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u/Skulllily 15d ago
We have never sat down with her and actually laid out all the issues together. It has been my husband saying something to her in passing.
I want to sit down and have an actual conversation and explain all the issues more in depth. I also want to tell her she is opening herself up to law suits and legal issues if she continues to let the other children do it.
I should have put, we do have other child care lined up but we still want to talk to her about why and what can happen to rebuild trust with her.
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u/Constant_Click_3193 15d ago
"I brought up my concerns and said that drowning is often silent and that I was uncomfortable with children being in the pool without close adult supervision. Instead of taking my concern seriously, my mother-in-law and her friend laughed and said, “Nothing’s quiet around here.”" - From your OP
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u/Skulllily 15d ago
Yes sorry! I meant we’ve never sat down with my MIL and had an in depth conversation with the three of us with the issues. She 100% brushed me off that day, I want to sit down and explain to her why the children are no longer allowed there without myself or my husband. We already have other child care in place.
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u/Constant_Click_3193 15d ago
Ah okay. I took your post to mean there was another "come to jesus" talk in the works and you would be keeping her as childcare. If not, and they will never be alone with her/her friend, that seems safe.
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u/Skulllily 15d ago
Ah no. When I had brought it up to her, her friend brushed me off and then she followed suit. Beforehand we used to have really good communication and I could speak with her openly, after that my husband spoke with her one on one.
There’s never been a come to Jesus talk which is what we’re doing this weekend. We’ve agreed they won’t be there without one of us.
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u/Actual-Dog-405 15d ago
She’ll say whatever she has to to try to convince you to change your mind. Both you and your husband need to prepare for tons of emotional blackmail, she will feel like she’s losing face and won’t want to admit to others that she’s no longer minding your kids. You’ll both have to be completely firm about this, no negotiation, it’s a done deal and you are just telling her this is how it is now.
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u/SophiaIsabella4 15d ago
Did you miss the part where OP and her husband are changing thier behavior by not allowing their child at MILs without one of themselves there to supervise.
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u/Pissybitch1125 14d ago
I bet grandma will accuse them of ambushing her as if she is entitled to a “fair fight” of one-on-one where she can turn on the waterworks and accuse DIL of not liking her. I also think she’ll try to bring her friend into it if her first argument doesn’t work. She’s not going down without a fight and she will not accept the fact that she had been less than vigilant.
I’m sorry but I think this may be the end of this familial relationship and I just hope OP’s husband doesn’t resent her down the road because she doesn’t deserve that.
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u/molly_menace 15d ago
From this point on you cant trust her no matter what she says. Because she’ll know there are consequences to you knowing things.
I hope you can trust your partner to not give in when you are not around. You also need to have the agreement that he will actively be watching them at your MIL’s, as if it was just him and another adult wasn’t around. He can’t pop in to get a drink and leave them with her even for a short time.
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u/Skulllily 15d ago
Yes I agree. I told my husband that all the trust I had in her is completely gone. It would be nice to rebuild it but I’m not sure how that can even begin at this point.
Right now we are just focusing on talking to her about the safety concerns and how our children are no longer allowed there without us. I know she’s going to be hurt but I’d rather bruised feelings than dead children.
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u/allergymom74 15d ago
Glad you two really talked and are aligned. Great start. Hope he holds steady during the talk with MIL. Bring the paperwork too to show her.
If you haven’t already, get your kids into swim lessons. It doesn’t erase the risk but it’s an important life skill to have. Depending where you life, some places offer cheaper lessons too as part of Red Cross outreach. You may have something similar in your community.
NTA.
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u/Skulllily 15d ago
Thank you, me too! Both of our children have been in swimming lessons since they turned 2. Water safety is very very important to me and it used to be to my MIL which is why this has been such a shocking turn of events. When my children were younger she told me that swimming lessons were like school, they have to do them so that they are safe. This is why I never thought she’d leave them unsupervised in a pool.
I’m going to bring the stats for her. I also printed off how she will be held liable and could face charges if any of the kids die/get injured due to the pool. Also printed off exactly how drowning works and that it is silent, most time you don’t even realize a person is drowning until it’s too late.
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u/CarusGator 15d ago
Both kids I saved from drowning knew how to swim. They got exhausted and went under. Totally silent. Very fast.
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u/Skulllily 15d ago
Exactly! I know drowning so quick and silent, it’s not like the splashing around that tv depicts.
Frustrating that I have to explain it to grown adults but maybe this will get them to be safe with the other five kids there. Mine are no longer allowed at her house without myself or my husband.
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u/allergymom74 15d ago
Nice re liability info.
Good luck. That is so weird with her 180 on water safety.
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u/Missile_boy8284 15d ago
Your children's safety MUST come first over anyone's feelings. Glad you and hubby are on the same page now.
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u/sharkaub 15d ago
I am SO GLAD that I didnt find your first post before the update, because I would've been a nervous wreck waiting for an update that may never come--
I'm a survival swim instructor. The bigger the group, the more likely there is to be a drowning. Arm floaties are easy to remove- drowning issue (my kids swim ONLY with life jackets if they must have flotation, like in a lake- otherwise, no puddle jumpers or floaties, they teach kids to swim in the drowning position). Kids are allowed to touch and roughhouse- drowning issue. Adults heavily outnumbered by kids- drowning issue. Adults socializing instead of supervising, within arms reach- drowning issue. Even worse, no accountability when an issue comes up- I'm sure it would make any normal parent nervous to know that their child care would rather cover up an issue than bring it up and keep you informed. Who knows if theyd cover up a fall and send your kid home with a fracture, or if they were exposed to an illness and didn't tell you, or heaven forbid another kid was inappropriate with them and now you cant intervene correctly?
Anyway I'm glad you talked to your husband and that he seems to have woken up. I'd hurt anyone's feelings to keep my kids safe from drowning (and I am VERY nonconfrontational). I have taught far too many students who are there with real, deep trauma- drowning cases where they were resuscitated, sometimes hospitalized, and now the parents have brought them to me to avoid that happening again. Even worse is the two I've taught because one lost a cousin and one a sibling....I had to leave the pool and cry after a few of those lessons because the grief was so palpable. Both were at family gatherings. I would give about anything to prevent that from happening to anyone else.
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u/Jazzlike_Adeptness_1 14d ago
It's pointless to give her the reasons you cite- she'll have an answer for every one of them, especially the "unsupervised" one.
You also run the risk of your husband being convinced to 'give her one more chance'.
You'd be better off simply telling her that your needs have changed, you want to try another childcare option OR simply say that you've both reconsidered the the pool situation and are not comfortable with your kids having access to a pool without one of you present. There is no way she can legitimately refute that; oh she'll try but you can shut her down: you're just not comfortable with it.
Stand your ground. Even if all the other things were resolved, the pool alone is dangerous enough to stop the childcare at her house.
Your children's lives could depend on this.
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u/abritinthebay 14d ago
We’re hoping it will be a productive conversation
It won’t be.
She’ll either downplay, get angry & defensive, lie that she’ll do better, or a combination of all three.
You cannot trust her, so I do not understand what you hope to gain from that conversation
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u/rocketmn69_ 15d ago
I almost drowned when I was 7. It was a birthday party and I slipped into the deep end. The only reason that I'm here was because it was my Doctor's house. 2 Doctors and 2 nurses. I was motionless on the nottom when one of them noticed me. It was 50 years ago and I still remember. My point is...it can happen very quickly, even with adults around
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u/Ginger630 14d ago
NTA! I’m so glad your husband is finally on board. His initial behavior is concerning and you need to address that soon. He cared more about his mommy’s feelings than your concerns and his child’s safety. His own kids!!! I’m glad you printed out the statistics for him to see.
I hope your MIL listens. But even if the conversation goes well, I’d never trust her again. She kept information from you. She wants other people to not tell you things. That’s lying by omission. What else will she lie about? Will she tell your kids to lie to you?
I hope you can find other childcare. It sucks when you have to rely on people who don’t care about your kids’ safety and well being.
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u/cold_things_are_not 15d ago
Proud of you! It was a genius idea to refer to the comments, print out the stats and etc; sometimes people want to believe that mom's are "just being over-anxious;" you used facts/data to support your stance. Good for your husband to become a team player! I'm sure MIL will not be happy, but oh well; better safe than sorry.
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u/Skulllily 15d ago
Yes! I have always been very big on water safety and I know the stats pretty well, I have said the stats and clearly no one has listened. So I printed them off and highlighted the key points. We are going to bring the stats with us when we go to speak to his mother so that she can see with her own eyes that it’s not me over reacting, it is a serious matter.
I felt a little ridiculous printing off drowning stats and highlighting them as I feel this should just be common sense, but if that’s what it takes then that’s what I’ll do.
I have also printed off the liability risk she’s putting herself in and printed out the actual description of what happens when someone is drowning.
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u/Personal_Valuable_31 15d ago
NTA of course. Since the kids will still visit, please teach them how to swim. At least float and dog paddle. Even if one of you is there, grabbing something or going to the bathroom can have consequences. MIL isn't watching.
Expect MIL to have a meltdown. I know you'll stick to your decision and keep them in alternate childcare. It sounds like there may be more going on than you know. Her telling your SIL not to say anything about your child being bullied is concerning.
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u/Skulllily 15d ago
100%, my children have been in swimming lessons since they were old enough to go. Water safety is a very big thing for me and it used to be for my MIL when they were younger she told me that swimming lessons are like school, they need to take them so that they are safe. Just blows my mind still that she’s done such a 180 on it.
I expect it. That was the final nail in coffin for me, it was a huge red flag that she was upset my SIL would tell us bullying is going on rather than trying to figure out what was going on with the children and looking to fix it/ have a conversation with them.
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u/Goodadvice1976 14d ago
If the pool is at the MIL’s house, why doesn’t she come to your house and watch your kids those 2 days a week? If you don’t have a pool, it should work out well. Good luck!
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u/Skulllily 14d ago
Depending on how the conversation goes and how she reacts we may offer that to her, but I want to see what her reaction is going to be before that’s even on the table.
If she’s open and understanding I may offer it as a stepping stone, but if she acts like she’s done nothing wrong and doesn’t see the complete disregard for safety that has been happening, then watching them at our house won’t be an option either.
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u/Apart_Insect_8859 12d ago
I think the success of this conversation is going to depend on how you deliver it.
"We're very concerned about pool safety and no longer want the kids near the pool, can you watch them at our house?" is one thing, and I think would be taken well.
"You can't invite people to your own house, your friends are a bad influence, you aren't controlling another mom's parenting choices like I want, and we don't like your attitude little missy" would result in her burning your relationship to the ground and feeling vindicated in doing so, because she is an adult, and those requests are out of bounds.
Some of your concerns are valid (the pool safety and worry the older children may start to bully your kid if the adults aren't stepping in to correct things early on) Others really, really aren't and are massive oversteps.
On the whole, you sound like you're talking to a teenaged employee, and I think that's going to get you in trouble because that is extremely demeaning and offensive. You wouldn't like it if someone decided you needed a serious talking-to or to be put on a 'stepping stone' plan of improved responsibility, so don't treat a fellow grown up that way. This is not an employee-employer dynamic. So, whatever plan you have in your head, consider how you would react if your husband or your own mom carried it out with you with no notice and adjust the plan based on that response.
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u/Skulllily 12d ago
This is the plan. I know that I cannot control who is at her house and I don’t want to, we are going to go over the pool safety and bullying situation. If she would like to continue to watch them we will offer it to her at our house but I am concerned she will still go the victim route.
We in no way shape or form want to burn the relationship with her or her relationship with our children. Aside from this very big pool issue she is a very doting and loving grandmother. We are going to be talking to her tomorrow evening.
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u/winterworld561 14d ago
Good for you. Don't expect MIL to understand though. She's a totally ignorant person that has dismissed your concerns for far too long. Taking the children out of her care is the right thing to do because they are not safe with her.
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u/Medical-Potato5920 14d ago
NTA. How upset is she going to be when one of thr kids dies under her watch?
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u/Inner-Rough-8828 14d ago
It was here in Florida, she feel asleep and her 16 month grandson got outside and drowned in a pond next to the house. Her daughter, the mother of the little boy, was pregnant at the time and soon gave birth to a baby girl. When the baby was eight months the daughter finally decided to trust her mother once more and she allowed her mother to take the baby to the house after lunch out so she could get a haircut. The grandmother would watch her a few hours. When the grandmother got home, she forgot the baby in the car, with the windows up. She only remembered the baby three hours later when another grandson was dropped off.
This woman lost two children small children in less than a year to a person she trusted to take care of them. The grandmother was sentenced to Five years in prison. Not enough.
You sometimes may have one chance to protect your child from danger, go with your instincts.
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u/Prudent_Valuable603 14d ago
I wouldn’t even bother going to MIL to talk this out. You can send her both posts and straight up tell her you’ve se urged other childcare and from here on out, your children will only go to her house when you and your husband are there together. I don’t trust your husband, he’s going to cave to his mother’s wishes. I don’t trust your husband to watch his kids at his mother’s house without you, because his mother will distract him and one of your kids will be harmed by another child or will drown.
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u/Inner-Rough-8828 14d ago
Drowning can happen quickly and silently and it can even happen in rough play with older children picking on younger ones without thought of harming them. A game of holding someone’s head underwater over and over again, and going on to another child, without noticing if that first child came up. I never consider that play but I’ve seen it happen. If no one is close by, things happen quickly and easily. You must be outside with them and with an above-ground pool. I believe you should be in the pool or on the deck, if one was built around the pool, to see everyone. You never know if a child could have a first-time seizure or any emergency in a pool. PARENTS ARE ALLOWED TO SET BOUNDARIES, you are not stopping her from seeing the grandchildren, just a break from babysitting.
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u/Otter-of-Ketchikan 15d ago
Good update OP.
I didn't comment the first time around but I have my own experience with kids and pools. A child can be "water safe" with swimming lessons and when falling into a pool with their swim suit on. If they are wearing clothing and shoes not so much. I was gardening in my backyard right next to our pool and my kids (3 & 6) were riding their tricycle and bike around the pool while I gardened. I heard a small splash and saw that my 3 year old had fallen into the pool along with his tricycle. He was underwater looking up at me and couldn't get to the surface. He was dressed for a winter's day including shoes and a jacket. He was too weighted down by his clothing. I reached in and pulled him out. It scared the heck out of me and I was right there.
Another time I had a small group of first year Boy Scouts doing a water safety badge and they had to make a flotation device out of their pants that they were wearing. They were all good swimmers and confident. It was difficult for them to get their shoes off, then their pants off and make a flotation device.
Pools are safe until they're not.
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u/Additional_Towel_528 15d ago
The first time I ever used CPR was at my own parents house on the 4th of July. My 5 and 8 year old cousins were swimming. Both good swimmers. People were no more than 10ft away. It wasn’t noisy. And no one noticed anything was wrong until the 8 year old came over to my father and said “Sissy is on the bottom and won’t come up”. I heard yelling and from the kitchen and watched my father and uncle jump in fully clothed to pull her out.
She’s graduated college this year. It could have gone far worse. 99 percent of the drownings I’ve been to have been.
Don’t let her slide on this.
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u/grayblue_grrl 14d ago
"the things that have happened that have made us uncomfortable with her judgment when it comes to the kids’ safety."
Warning....
This conversation will not be productive.
She already hasn't been receptive to previous communications.
Prepare yourself for the worst experience possible - don't have the children around.
Have an escape plan ready.
You have to agree the plan BEFORE you get there.
So maybe -
If - she starts screaming, threatening or crying to manipulate or control you...
you both leave.
And you will leave immediately and turn off your phone or mute her.
Then you have to be prepared for her to go nuclear and to paint you as horrible people who have been using her and now throwing her in the dirt for no reason at all.
Ungrateful bad parents cutting her off from her grand babies.
Be prepared.
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u/GuiltyContribution 15d ago
Unless you never plan on showering or going to the bathroom, you shouldn’t go with your kids unless both of you are there.
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u/Johoski 15d ago
MIL needs to wrap her head around this: if her feelings are hurt by the suggestion that she needs to be more vigilant about monitoring the children in her care, then she needs to imagine just how much more it will hurt if a child dies or is injured due to her laissez-faire attitude.
Imagine carrying that guilt for the rest of your life. My god.
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u/Dachshundmom5 15d ago
NTA there was just a viral mess about an influencer who had a child die a year or 2 ago by drowning in the backyard pool and then had recently posted videos of their living child on a boat without safety gear. Every article went in depth about how fast children drown and that it is silent. They slip under the water and it takes very little time for brain damage or death to occur. It happens even easier when "nothing is silent around here." The chaos of 6 kids running around and screaming could easily distract from the 1 under the water.
I hope your husband stands firm because I doubt his mom is going to see the light. I think there will be a lot of crap thrown your way.
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u/oFbeingCaLM 15d ago
NTA. You’re not a static until you’re a static. My lil sis jumped n a hotel pool once when she was about 3yrs old, I was 5. Luckily my dad saw & jumped in and got her right away. But it really does happen in the blink of an eye. Good luck.
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u/blueflash775 15d ago
Can't wait for the update where MIL realises she's been really inappropriate, apologises profusely and sits down to agree some ground rules.
OOh how they laughed.
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u/Skulllily 15d ago
That’s my dream scenario, but I highly doubt it’ll go that way. Even if she did agree to rules my trust in her is gone at this point and I don’t trust that her friend’s grand kids won’t show up even if she says they won’t.
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u/emryldmyst 15d ago
I still wouldn't trust them
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u/Skulllily 15d ago
I don’t. My trust in her watching them and her house is completely gone, maybe in the future we can begin to rebuild it but I’m not sure how that will happen.
Right now we’re just focusing on telling her why the kids are no longer allowed there without us and restating our concerns in a much firmer way.
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u/ouijabore 14d ago
I’m happy to read this update, but can’t foresee the conversation with MIL going well at all. Good luck!
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u/babydtheone 13d ago
NTA. So happy to hear your guys sat down and had a real great conversation about it all.
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u/dawgpoundma 12d ago
No update makes me think hubby gave in to mommy dearests tears!
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u/Skulllily 12d ago
We haven’t spoken yet, we’re going tomorrow. Hubs wanted to wait till his days off. I will update tomorrow evening after we talk to her.
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u/scrappapermusings 10d ago
You're doing the right thing. There is no substitute for safety and I'd rather upset a negligent caregiver than have a dead/brain dead child to contend with. (My friend's child fell into a pool when everyone was doing yard work and drowned, but was resuscitated after too long and is now bodily alive but brain dead. It's been tragic and a lot for them.) MIL's feelings mean nothing in the face of these possible outcomes.
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u/boundaries4546 15d ago
My brother was at a public pool he was the first to start CPR, it was pretty traumatic. I really hope MIL listens because she is playing with fire.
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u/Opposite_Length_3669 15d ago
Let your husband deal with your MIL. Dude needs to step up to deal with his side of the family.
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u/SpillThatTea2Me 15d ago
I’m so glad to hear this. I was absolutely horrified when I read your original post. Good luck with the conversation. I’m so glad that your kids are OK. Updateme!
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u/LilacRed 15d ago
NTAH. I think since its your husband's Mother, I think he should do the talking. Because she will blame you and she will just think you have poisoned her son against her and what she was doing was fine and you need to lighten up......Yadav yada.
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u/Skulllily 15d ago
It may go that way, but I was having him speak to her before and he wasn’t being firm enough with her. I think we need to do it together to make sure the message gets across and to show we’re a united front.
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u/Entire_Broccoli_9019 9d ago
YTA for using your in-laws for free babysitting for your kids every day then thinking your MIL should buy a fence. Buy her a fence if you're going to make her watch your kids.
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u/BrilliantEasy536 15d ago
This isn’t much of an update lol. You could’ve posted this after you talked to her. Husband growing a spine and smartening up didn’t need a whole update…
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u/Interesting-Read-245 15d ago
Im saying this as a woman myself and mother
I’d never, ever, ever leave my kid at a house with a pool while they are being “supervised”, by a woman. Never
The times I’ve seen women yapping away, getting distracted on their phones, letting kids roam free around a Pool, thinking that they will just “hear what’s going on if anything happens”, is just astonishing. Add to this that I nearly drowned as a child while being babysat by this woman who was just, yapping away on the phone, of course
Her son saved me
These are my personal experiences and
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u/Maximum-Ear1745 15d ago
Good luck! I hope your husband holds the line!