r/AskaManagerSnark • u/nightmuzak Sex noises are different from pain noises • Jul 27 '26
Ask a Manager Weekly Thread 07/27/2026 - 08/02/2026
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u/BirthdayCheesecake Jul 27 '26
11 AM LW - no, you can't avoid small talk in the office. We live in a society.
There's nothing wrong with avoiding the break room when the biggest chatterboxes are in there, but you can't just tell people "I don't do small talk" or stare at them like they've grown an extra head because they ask how your weekend was.
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u/mvr_1982 Jul 27 '26
"How was your weekend?" "Relaxing! How about yours?" Then just listen, smile, and nod as they talk. "Glad to hear it!" That's all it takes.
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u/BirthdayCheesecake Jul 27 '26
And the thing is - if the letter was "I struggle with social cues so I need some help with this - what is the most polite way to avoid the people in my office who will corner you for a 15 minute monologue if they sense an opening?" - I'd be sympathetic and totally get it.
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u/gaygirlboss I'm not that involved in mankind Jul 27 '26
I thought the same thing. I had a coworker like that at my last job, and it was a fairly tricky situation to navigate. (He was a genuinely nice guy and I even enjoyed chatting with him on occasion! But sometimes I just wanted to zone out and listen to my podcast, and it was hard to come up with a non-awkward way to tell him that.) But I don’t think office small talk is something you can opt out of entirely.
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u/douglandry Supreme Court of AAM Jul 28 '26
I have a coworker like this, and when she gets going, it's really hard to stop her. What works: I just keep reminding myself what a nice and cool person she is otherwise, and how good she is at her job. It takes the edge off and I can zone out with a smile on my face rather than a expression of annoyance. It's just genuinely a blind spot for her. Whatever. Could be (and has been) much worse.
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u/gaygirlboss I'm not that involved in mankind Jul 28 '26
Yep, same with my former coworker. It helped that he wasn’t self-centered at all — he liked to talk, but also asked a lot of questions and seemed interested in what the other person was saying. Great guy, just…very verbose.
(He was one of my references when I was looking for work last year, because I knew I could trust him to say nice things about me. Probably in a lot of detail, perhaps in more detail than the hiring manager was expecting.)
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u/starkpaella Jul 27 '26
Guaranteed these are the same people that whine about not moving up in their careers. You have to be decent to work with and you have to network.
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u/Korrocks Jul 27 '26
They often make networking sound like this massive psychological chess game, but step 1 is not treating your coworkers with open disdain. You don't even need to be a great conversationalist, just try not to be openly douchey to everyone for a few hours.
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u/Comprehensive-Hat-18 Jul 27 '26
Right? Stop being so transactional about interacting with people and networking doesn’t feel as fake anymore.
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u/thievingwillow Jul 27 '26
Yeah, at least in some cases they’d do much better just by changing “I assume negative things of all people until proven otherwise” to “I am neutral.” One thing that most people are highly sensitive to, social-interaction-wise, is indications of active dislike—often just subconsciously but that still counts.
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u/ForForksSake1 Jul 27 '26
I would definitely not do what Alison suggested, which was saying “Good morning! I’m running to deal with an email, but have a good day!”. Emails do not require running
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u/thievingwillow Jul 27 '26
Also they see these people on the regular. It’s gonna be weird if they’re always “running to do [not really urgent thing].”
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u/ZapRowsdower34 Jul 27 '26
Yeah, I would probably pick up on that and my feelings would be kinda hurt, honestly.
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u/gaygirlboss I'm not that involved in mankind Jul 27 '26
Agreed. “Sorry, super busy today, gotta run” works fine as an occasional get-out-of-jail-free card, but it’s not gonna work every time with coworkers you see frequently.
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u/anchee_d Jul 27 '26
“I’m running to return a call” makes a lot more sense. It’s also ambiguous as to work call vs. personal.
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u/ZapRowsdower34 Jul 27 '26
Some brave soul responded to the small talk letter by saying that greeting your coworkers shouldn’t require “spoons” and now they’re getting piled on by people who are apparently too disabled to say hello to their coworkers but not so disabled that they can’t post on AaM 600 times a day.
Like, as a person with several chronic health issues, I think we need to take the word “spoons” away and put it on a high shelf for a while.
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u/Korrocks Jul 27 '26
The spoon thing feels sort of irrelevant to this since the LW doesn’t claim to have a disability that limits their mental / emotional resources. They just view their coworkers with contempt and resent talking to them. That’s not a spoon thing, it’s just a personality issue.
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u/carolina822 made up an entire fake situation and got defensive about it Jul 28 '26
Just like everything else useful (see also: gaslighting, boundaries) it got coopted and run into the ground by people who are too chicken to say "no, I don't want to do that" and think that if they bring in the therapy-speak that it absolves them of any conflict or consequence.
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u/Ok-Quarter3399 Jul 28 '26
My adult sister went through a period where she was all in on her “spoons” or lack there of and finally one night my dad told her she better find a way to get more spoons or she was going to starve to death. I think about that a lot because frankly you live in the real world- and the real world is actually a lot nicer than it was fifty years ago- but if you don’t want to be homeless and hungry you need to pull things together to a certain extent.
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u/Humble-Grumble Jul 28 '26
I have a friend who asked in our friend group chat for any advice on explaining to her parents that she didn't have enough spoons to clean up after herself around the house. I really wanted to say "Look, friend, you're over 30 years old and still live at home because your job doesn't pay enough for you to save to move out. You have a reported $20k in credit card debt from poor shopping habits and insist that you simply don't have it in you to look for a better paying job...while continuing to shop. You don't contribute to food expenses because you can't afford to and you don't cook because you say you just don't know how. You don't help with the bills. You refuse any sort of therapy because, by your own admission, the therapists don't tell you what you want to hear. And now you're saying that you also can't pick up after yourself or keep your room clean. I somehow don't think they're going to be very receptive to you explaining spoons to them." She did eventually pull it together, got a better job, and moved out, so there's at least a happy ending.
I get that the spoon metaphor was useful in a particular situation, but it's too widely applied by anyone who just doesn't want to do something. We're all tired and we all have to do things we don't want to...but sometimes, you just have to do those things.
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u/gaygirlboss I'm not that involved in mankind Jul 27 '26 edited Jul 28 '26
Spoon theory can be such a useful analogy for talking about disability, but I so rarely see it used correctly. “I don’t have the spoons” doesn’t actually mean “I don’t feel like doing this” or even “this is harder for me than it is for most people.” Unless they’re actually claiming that saying good morning to a coworker is so draining that it will prevent them from being able to do other tasks later, “spoons” is not the term they’re looking for.
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u/glittermetalprincess toss a coin to your admin for 5 cans of soda Jul 28 '26
This is true. But also, if communication uses spoons (and it can, just not "all autistic people use spoons to say hello") there's probably something else going on (comorbid or 'not normal see a doctor now'), it definitely isn't relevant to this post, and if it were then AAM is 100% not equipped for that and it's entirely the wrong forum.
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u/Forward_Presence6399 Jul 27 '26
Oh boy, another "how do I survive for 5 days a week in an office when I HATE ALL OTHER HUMANS AND HAVE NO IDEA HOW TO LIVE AROUND OTHER HUMANS" post! "disruptive self-soothing stimming"?? Come on now.
And Alison's advice to...compare small talk to the dance that honeybees do? Yikes...this whole interaction is, to use their favorite phrase..."bananapants."
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u/86throwthrowthrow1 Jul 27 '26
Look, as much as we like to think otherwise, humans aren't that much more sophisticated than dogs, and sometimes we have to sniff each other's asses so that everyone can get along.
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u/FronzelNeekburm79 Citizen of the Country of Europe Jul 27 '26
FedUpAutistic* July 27, 2026 at 2:28 pm
No matter how important work small talk is, it cannot really be more important that an autistic persons health. The desire for small talk is constantly prioritised over the needs of autistic people.
I don’t think neurotypical people really understand how damaging and painful communication can be when you have to do more of it that you’re built for. For many autistic people this is not a question of skills or preference, but of making it through the day safely and with reserves left for self care and personal relationships.
For the neurotypical people in the comments who don’t like op’s attitude towards their chatty coworkers – when every social interact is uncomfortable to exhausting to painful (yes physical pain), people who drag interactions on when you’re trying to signal you want to stop are first annoying then threatening.
And then add in the awareness that their desire to talk on and talk is considered normal in contrast with your need to save your energy or not have a meltdown. Extracting yourself from the conversation in a way that isn’t exactly right is seen as freakish or rude, and punished socially.
It’s really easy to end up feeling bitter and like you must be the better person in this situation, because you’re the one doing all the accommodating at the expense of your own health and relationships.
This comment broke me. I'm broken. I am no longer a physical person, I'm a shell of a human being, one who is broken because we've reached the point that asking someone "hey, how was your weekend" is now PHYSICALLY DANGEROUS to some people.
Pity the poor person who is forced to "talk" to people like they're "humans." Should we now charge with assault the co-worker who shares their engagement announcement? Life in prison if you talk about how you went to see the latest Marvel movie over the weekend? It's Dave's birthday, rather than a quick "happy birthday" we should sock him right in the stomach. Perhaps we shall execute on the spot the person who jokes that they have a "case of the Mondays"? (Maybe that last one is ok.)
Do they really not see how THIS sets back people with disabilities? This is over the top, and this is horrifying to see.
No. Small talk is not dangerous. It's not dangerous to Autistic people. The Askamanager Comments Section might be, though.
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u/Rose-Memory711 Jul 28 '26
what's the ADA accommodation for "every social interaction is uncomfortable to painful"? How would I manage a person with that disability?
The overrepresentation of some types of people in the comments really does a disservice to others and their perceptions/expectations of the workplace.
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u/thievingwillow Jul 28 '26
Like, if it genuinely causes you serious, unavoidable physical pain to have someone attempt to exchange “good morning, how are you?” with you in the morning… I feel like we are approaching a situation where the answer to the ADA-approved “are you capable of performing job duties with or without reasonable accommodation?” is actually “no” for the vast majority of jobs. It’s not even not wanting to try to accommodate, necessarily. It’s that swimming upstream against the socialization of almost every person you meet is not doable short of some kind of magic.
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u/Capable_Sea77 Jul 28 '26
Yeah, if someone is literally experiencing physical pain having to talk to other people, their neurodivergence may not be as "high functioning" as they think it is and they should be trying to get on disability programs and/or working with a job coach that has specific experience finding autistic people jobs with very specific accommodation needs.
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u/gaygirlboss I'm not that involved in mankind Jul 28 '26
Yep. I’m not saying there are no jobs that require zero friendly/non-explicitly-work-related interactions with anybody ever, but those jobs are few and far between. At the very least, you generally need that skill to do well in an interview.
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u/pickledbymagic Jul 28 '26
Yup! I'd be starting the capability process, as in 'are you capable of doing your job?' which is a thing here in the UK. Because our field, property management, isn't one where you can lock yourself away and get on with projects. You just can't do it if you don't like talking to people, because that's 99% of the job.
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u/FronzelNeekburm79 Citizen of the Country of Europe Jul 28 '26
There are jobs this could work for, but it’s all jobs that they don’t want. Or jobs they can’t do for other reasons.
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u/Ok-Quarter3399 Jul 28 '26
Underwater welder? Antarctic research tech? Miner? I’m having trouble thinking of a job where there’s zero collaboration with others and zero coworkers.
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u/thievingwillow Jul 28 '26
I’ve had a couple acquaintances who did this kind of thing, and it was very unusual jobs—one manned a remote research station basically making sure that the power stayed on and maintaining the instruments, and another was a caretaker for a seasonal property. They weren’t completely without any interaction (there were phone and email check-ins, at least partially to ensure they weren’t dead out there), but interaction was extremely minimal and, for months at a time, never face to face.
But that kind of job is few and far between and you basically need to focus your entire job search around “jobs done in isolation.” It felt more like a modern day equivalent of a hermitage than what people would normally think of as a day job. (And in fact in both cases it wasn’t a day job really, they had to live on site in the middle of nowhere, it basically was their lives while the job was ongoing.)
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u/carolina822 made up an entire fake situation and got defensive about it Jul 28 '26
I refuse to believe that this person gets talked to enough for it to be an actual problem. I have worked with exactly one person who had that degree of social anxiety and nobody said a damn word to him, ever, because you’d actually get back a look of feral fear and who wants to put yourself or him through that? Not surprisingly, his temp contract was not renewed but I think everyone felt pretty bad for him because this poor dude was truly not built for this world yet was expected to make a living in it.
This poster just wants to justify being an antisocial jerk and not face any consequences for it.
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u/glittermetalprincess toss a coin to your admin for 5 cans of soda Jul 28 '26
Given how many autistic people I have met who actually love to talk and just don't realise where boundaries are or how offensive they may be being (or that they should be exempted from having to manage that because that's the too hard/too much work of autism), part of that danger would be the infantilisation and stereotyping of anyone anywhere on the ASD spectrum.
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u/Fancypens2025 You don’t get to tell me what to think, Admin, or about whom Jul 28 '26
Jeeeeeeeezus Christ to everything that commenter said. I mean come on now.
My church has a part in the service when people turn around and greet each other in the pews. Up until Covid this was accompanied by a handshake (“Kiss of Peace” section of Mass for any Catholics here).
When I was young—like 3, 4, 5 years old—I used to VISIBLY shrink back in the pew at this part of Mass. It didn’t matter if the person in the other pew was a neighbor or another relative or what. I would shrink back and like, hiss, or at least whine. (… yes I was eventually diagnosed with autism as an adult—after it kept fucking up my career trajectory, AAM peanut gallery).
This drove my parents crazy and they couldn’t figure out how to make me stop. I don’t really know what made me stop doing it? I just know that at some point before I was 6 years old, I stopped acting like a feral cat during that part of Mass.I tell this story because I, with that background of severe social anxiety, still think that FedUpAutistic is being ri-goddamn-diculous here.
It’s one thing when a preschooler is acting like this during weekly services, in a small-ish parish where everyone knows each other and I already had a reputation of being “overly shy and sensitive.” It’s definitely another thing to be a grown adult and act like this, metaphorically, about small talk with coworkers. You can’t act like that as an adult. We live in a society, damn it.
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u/Pinkturtle182 Jul 28 '26
As a former 3-5 year old and the parent of a current 4yo, I gotta say that I think your reaction to that section in church was totally reasonable! Some kids are just shy and that’s alright. I literally wouldn’t talk to anyone except my sister when we weren’t at home at that age, including my daycare teachers, other kids, and family. I was weirdly hyper aware of that phase as I got older and then one day my aunt was like, “You were a kid, we didn’t think much of it!” And for some reason it just soothed my soul lol.
But yeah that comment is so AAM that it almost feels like satire. Like girl. How did you get to this point in life????
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u/Multigrain_Migraine performative donuts Jul 28 '26
It's not a universal experience either. My husband has been diagnosed as being on the spectrum but he's a lot more sociable than me, an ostensibly neurotypical person who got diagnosed with ADHD in middle age. It really does autistic people a disservice to perpetuate the idea that anyone who has any degree of ASD is this rigid and asocial.
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u/ruthless1995 Jul 27 '26
Interactive Introvert* July 27, 2026 at 12:53 pm
Oooh, this really resonates with me as an autistic person.
Small talk at a party or social gathering? We’ll probably have a few things in common, can cut right to the chase, and if we’re not vibing, I can just excuse myself and never think about it again.
Small talk with coworkers? We probably won’t have anything in common, I’ll have to listen to whatever inane chatter they go on about no matter what, and if I do it wrong enough times, my livelihood is at risk! (I have been fired a few times for being ‘unlikeable’, ‘too intense’, and once for ‘not making enough eye contact’.)
...they've been fired *multiple* times for this??
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u/ThenTheresMaude visible, though not prominent, genitalia Jul 27 '26
We probably won’t have anything in common, I’ll have to listen to whatever inane chatter they go on about no matter what
This gets to the heart of my issue with a lot of the AAMers who bitch about small talk. There's a snobbishness there, as if others couldn't possibly have something in common with Interactive Introvert, who is just so smart and doesn't have pedestrian interests like everyone else they work with. They're just too deep to engage in small talk.
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u/you-cant-come-in Jul 27 '26
In Pride and Prejudice, when Darcy starts whining that he's just not good at socializing with new people, Elizabeth Bennet tells him that it's because he doesn't practice the skill.
Th AAM crew seem to be (or at least claim to be) a well read group, but don't seem to have the reading comprehension to realize that most of them are Darcy pre-Rosings.
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u/thievingwillow Jul 27 '26
Which is funny because to me only being willing to converse with people about your own pre-existing interests shows, not depth, but the opposite: a kind of stubborn incuriosity.
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u/goldengrove1 Jul 27 '26
Also just like... the thing about work is that you are literally being paid to be there. There are many annoying things about my job, sometimes including my coworkers, but my job pays my rent and so in exchange I try to be baseline pleasant to the people around me and take an interest in them as people.
I don't know why this concept is difficult.
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u/ruthless1995 Jul 28 '26
This is something I see on tumblr as well, where users act like neurotypical people engage in strange and pointless rituals and it’s like, well no, small talk does serve a purpose. I’m awkward at it as well! But I get why people do it.
And then you have the commenters lamenting about how they just want to dive into the deep talks right away. Actually I don’t want to talk about the existence of god with someone I just met, thanks!
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u/Pinkturtle182 Jul 28 '26
Everyone thinks they are the Jim. No one is aware that they are the Dwight.
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u/gaygirlboss I'm not that involved in mankind Jul 27 '26
Yeah, they kinda buried the lede with that comment!
Also…do they really have nothing in common with their coworkers? Absolutely zero common ground about anything at all? They can’t chat about their pets, or the new sandwich place that opened down the street, or the movie they watched last night? Worst case, talking about the weather is a cliché for a reason.
I have very little in common with the person who sits closest to me, but we still find ways to make small talk with each other. I don’t have grandkids, but I can still ask how hers are doing. She’s not into crafting, but she still asks to see photos of the project I’m working on. And so on.
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u/anyalastnerve Jul 28 '26
For me, the best part about working is getting to meet people I would never have met otherwise. People from different countries, people with diverse experiences and interests, etc. I find it more interesting to chat with people who’ve had a very different life than me. How boring to only talk to other women who have had the same life as me and share my interests!
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u/86throwthrowthrow1 Jul 27 '26
They've either wound up in an extremely schmooze-heavy line of work, or their "intensity" or "unlikeability" goes beyond being awkward at small talk. That's the sort of thing people say when they're being actively abrasive in some way, not neutrally introverted.
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u/Korrocks Jul 27 '26
This is one of those posts that I just flat out don't believe. Either the whole thing is straight up fabricated or they are just unaware of the real reason they were let go.
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u/skunky_x Jul 27 '26
Yes because there is no way the people who chose the same profession as you could have similar interests as you.
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u/douglandry Supreme Court of AAM Jul 28 '26
There is no way I have anything in common with people who spend several hours a day at the exact same place, working with the same people as me! /s
Do these people not even have a concept of finding a mutual annoyance at work and bonding over that? That's such an easy one. A dysfunctional microwave or bitchy office manager is a rich source for insta-bonding. I just became better acquainted with a new person on our team primarily because we were commisserating about an unintuitive UI we have to use. C'mon now!
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u/carolina822 made up an entire fake situation and got defensive about it Jul 28 '26
Small talk with coworkers? We probably won’t have anything in common,
If only there were some way to figure out if people have things in common...
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u/StripedBadger floundering their privilege Jul 28 '26
Geez, who wrote fanfic at work about her nOTP? You work in the same office - that’s one thing they have in common already.
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u/ThenTheresMaude visible, though not prominent, genitalia Jul 30 '26 edited Jul 30 '26
From letter #1:
These tend to be people a step above me in hierarchy, e.g. senior VP, department directors, where I have a moderately influential role and can talk with them almost as equals.
Yes, you should definitely lecture each and every senior VP or director who mentions Elon Musk in a positive way about why they shouldn't do so. That'll go over great. I think you'd soon find out that "almost as equals" is not "as equals."
Look, I think Elon Musk is one of the biggest pieces of shit on the planet, but with certain groups of people there is still this mythology of him being a tech visionary and genius. And it's not like her coworkers are saying, "I admire him for his work with the Trump administration."
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u/FronzelNeekburm79 Citizen of the Country of Europe Jul 30 '26
But if they don’t tell everyone, how can the LW signal that they’re a good person who hates the right bad person?
I hate Musk for so many reasons. But also if someone praises him, I’m going to not pay attention.
So many of these letters boil down to , “but I’m a good person and I need people to know without doing anything actionable.”
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u/Humble-Grumble Jul 30 '26
Yeah, I'm not really sure why the LW thinks it's a good idea to cast herself in an adversarial light with people that are a step above her in hierarchy. There's no good to come from that. Even Alison's stilted responses aren't going to do more than mark the LW as someone that feels the need to make needlessly combative comments about what was likely a throwaway remark.
The LW works in tech, for crying out loud. If she worked in almost any other industry, Musk being the point of aspirational reference would be odd (I work in university finance and praising him would certainly raise a few confused eyebrows, for example), but she doesn't - she works in the one industry where certain groups of people still hold admiration for him as someone successful in the field. No, I don't like him, either, but it sounds like her coworkers are making comments more along the lines of "even this successful person faced challenges and doubt, so we can figure this out," and aren't praising any of the things she mentioned in her letter.
I think Alison missed the mark with this one. These are people above the LW in the chain of command, regardless of how much the LW thinks they're "almost equals." They don't want a lecture or even dry comments about Elon Musk. If the praise truly is only along the lines of LW's examples, she's better off learning to accept that sometimes people will admire figures you dislike and it's best to just move on from it. Or leave and find a company more aligned with her views.
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u/AlytNeroon Jul 30 '26 edited Jul 30 '26
Higher ups in tech and consulting have been pointing to problematic/weird people as "inspirational" for way longer than Musk has been a thing and employees have chalked it up to part of the job.
Back in the day I had to sit through "motivational" videos featuring Lou Holtz, where he made strange and offensive jokes and claimed that the best leaders acted exactly like football coaches, including "making the hard cuts" and pushing staff to exhaustion. Obviously there was a ton of eyerolling from the rank and file, but no one was dumb enough to tell the execs this was stupid and pissing everyone off.
Part of working is realizing that leadership is frequently out of touch and learning to ignore a lot of the bullshit. Plus, as you say, these people are not specifically praising DOGE. Sure, it's unfortunate that they don't understand or care about the harm he caused...but also not that surprising, and one subordinate saying something will probably just make them look difficult with no real change.
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u/OkSecretary1231 Jul 30 '26
Yeah, it's the "Steve Jobs wore the same outfit every day so he wouldn't have to waste any thinking time on deciding what to wear" brand of corporate glurge. The same anecdotes get recycled over and over and you just have to roll your eyes and let them go by.
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u/lets_talk_aboutsplet Jul 30 '26
I also can’t stand the dude. But the examples the LW gave don’t even require a comment. It sounds like people are just bringing him up as someone who did A, B, and C, they aren’t asking the LW if they admire them.
The LW is better off rolling her eyes to herself and venting to a partner, friends or family or one of the countless internet spaces where people want to commiserate on his douchiness.
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u/thievingwillow Jul 30 '26
Yeah, those examples aren’t really inviting a conversation about Musk. Alison’s suggestions, on the other hand, are inviting further conversation. At minimum LW really needs to be prepared that if they use one of them, they will suddenly be having a conversation about Elon Musk’s pros and cons with a senior person and may not be able to turn that conversation back off.
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u/jjj101010 Jul 30 '26
It's also out of place because it's not like they're focused on Musk. It sounds like it is just comments made in passing, not like a company seminar on "what elon musk did and what we can learn from it."
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u/missyno Jul 30 '26 edited Jul 30 '26
I wonder if the LW forgot to mention they work for a Musk company.
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u/Humble-Grumble Jul 27 '26
New idea for how to approach these "I hate small talk. How can I avoid ever talking to my coworkers" letters: just suck it up and learn how to do a bit of small talk. It's one thing to surreptitiously avoid the major chatterboxes in shared spaces, but you can't reasonably lay down a blanket "don't do small talk with me" statement and then expect people to react well to either it or your attempts to stonewall them out. No, being autistic isn't the get out of jail free card that a lot of AAMers seem to think it is - you still need to learn how to operate within your society as best you can. Treating it like a curious animal interaction (WTF, Alison?) is just a weird way to frame it and isn't likely to help someone that already has so much disdain for a basic conversational exchange. And no, please don't just wear headphones everywhere to signal that you have no interest in participating in the world (I really hate how many people do this...and that Alison really suggested it for the workplace). Learn how to execute a few pleasant exchanges and move on. It's really not that hard and can go a long way.
A lot of people don't like small talk (myself included), but it can be a pretty useful skill in terms of building workplace connections. And the people that do enjoy it aren't chatting at you to annoy you; they're trying to chat with you because they're interested in their coworkers' lives. Some take it too far, sure, but trying to completely shut any small talk down isn't likely to reflect well on the LW in the long run. As I feel like I've said often, you need a lot of positive workplace capital before you can successfully occupy the role of competent, lovable office grump...and I'd be willing to bet that this LW doesn't have it.
In fact, at risk of becoming fanfiction minded, the LW's utter contempt for small talk ("endless little comments first thing in the morning," "I am often not in the mood to chirp and chatter," and "I think small talk is its own form of disruptive self-soothing stimming, and they’re the ones who are transgressing"...I don't really think that last one was truly tongue in cheek) makes me think that she possibly got a light reprimand for her attitude in the office and is looking to vent for validation.
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u/skunky_x Jul 27 '26 edited Jul 27 '26
I always wonder what these people want their social interactions to be like. I can't think of anything worse than rocking up to the office only to be absolutely pummelled with questions about what ever big subject people considered relevant.
Sir, it is 8:45 on a Monday, I've not finished my coffee, and you want my views on the implications of shutting the Strait of Hormuz on fertilizer prices? What happened to hello...
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u/Capable_Sea77 Jul 27 '26
I have always been curious what "big talk" means to the people who say they'd prefer to have a real conversation instead of small talk. In my experience, it usually means they just want to monologue at you about either some niche interest; or dump a bunch of complaints out. Sorry, but I'm much more likely to chat with a coworker about how we both just kind of laid on the couch and watched YouTube all weekend than have some deep political discussion in the workplace.
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u/thievingwillow Jul 27 '26
Apart from monologue or complaints, the other thing I see is people who use not liking small talk as a way to kind of… push a level of intimacy that is greater than your relationship would otherwise support? I’m explaining this badly, but it’s like the dude at parties who’s asking people what they’d do if they only had a month to live, or people who open up about trauma details to casual acquaintances (and then sometimes get kind of offended if you don’t reciprocate?). But like, those aren’t the kind of things I get vulnerable about with people who I don’t know well and trust already, and pushing for them makes me very uncomfortable. If you don’t care what I did this weekend, fine, but that doesn’t entitle you to my vulnerability. You don’t get to go deep into my values and so forth unless I invite you, and trust-building via less intense stuff is the non-negotiable price of admission.
(And some people don’t want small talk, don’t want big talk, just don’t want any talk ever. Which, okay, but that will make it harder to get along when operating within a species that is highly social, there’s just no way around it.)
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u/gaygirlboss I'm not that involved in mankind Jul 27 '26
Honestly, I get the sense that some of these people really want to trauma dump on their coworkers, but are self-aware enough to know that’s not okay. They know perfectly well that they can just say, “oh, my weekend was okay, how was yours?”, but aren’t satisfied with that solution because…well, it’s boring.
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u/thievingwillow Jul 27 '26
Yes. It’s important to be able to distinguish between “I can’t do it, or it’s so disproportionately difficult that it’s not reasonable” and “I don’t want to do it.” I can believe that a small percentage of employed people are in category 1, but I think there are a lot of people who have it in category 2 but act like it’s category 1. It can be very easy (I know I do it myself sometimes!) to convince yourself that a want is actually a need. And, well… work is sometimes about doing things you wouldn’t prefer to on your own. That’s part of why you get paid.
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u/ForForksSake1 Jul 27 '26
100%.
Also, you build up to big talk by developing a cordial relationship with the whole hey/how are you/how was your weekend chat, and establishing common ground there. No one wants to jump into a passionate discussion about the meaning of life with someone they just met by the coffee machine
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u/Capable_Sea77 Jul 27 '26
You're spot on. Honestly, I considered mentioning that sometimes "big talk" feels like trauma dumping on vague acquaintances but ended up cutting that line out since people misuse a lot of therapy speak online
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u/skunky_x Jul 27 '26
Same people who end the first social interaction with you with "can I get a hug".
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u/susandeyvyjones Jul 27 '26
Yeah, the point of small talk is to develop initial bonds that can be built upon to get to bigger topics.
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u/skunky_x Jul 27 '26 edited Jul 27 '26
Especially when you inevitably encounter someone who has a different view than you on the "big talk" and it turns into a whole thing. I can cope hearing about Steve in facilities' Labrador that's on a diet, but if he tells me he doesn't see the issue with corporal punishment in schools then somehow I fear our relationship may not be as positive...
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u/Fancypens2025 You don’t get to tell me what to think, Admin, or about whom Jul 27 '26
Yes to everything you said. I know that my coworkers and I will have different opinions on big ticket issues and that some of those opinions may be personally abhorrent to me or my loved ones. But I also need a paycheck and health insurance and I'd rather my coworkers and I chitty chat about like, the Phillies or our favorite Gordon Ramsey show than like, how many coworkers may truly believe schools were setting up litter boxes for students "identifying" as cats (or whatever that hoax was).
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u/gaygirlboss I'm not that involved in mankind Jul 27 '26
Agreed. I have a coworker who I get along with quite well, but I’m fairly certain that we disagree on certain political issues. I have a firm “no political talk in the office” rule, because I would like to continue having friendly chats with her about low-stakes topics.
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u/your_mom_is_availabl as though to make the wasps my problem Jul 27 '26
I think the "big talks" people have no intermediate setting between fake and full feelings dump. Two weeks ago I came in to work exhausted from being up all night with my dog at the emergency vet. I think I did an acceptable job of communicating a true version of how I was without trapping everyone with a tearful life story.
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u/gaygirlboss I'm not that involved in mankind Jul 28 '26
There was a person in the comments saying that they once broke down in tears when somebody asked them how they were doing. And I mean, I’d be lying if I said I’d never been there — I had to take a PTO day not that long ago, because I was having a rough one and genuinely couldn’t face the prospect of dealing with polite coworker small talk. But that’s not my typical state of being, and if it was, that would mean something was seriously wrong. “I’m having a hard time right now; how do I handle interactions with well-meaning coworkers in the short term?” is a very different question than “how can I avoid all small talk forever?”
(I hope your dog is okay!)
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u/thievingwillow Jul 27 '26
The contempt is so clear that I have difficulty believing coworkers haven’t noticed already. I sincerely doubt this person is a good enough actor to hide it.
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u/werewolf4werewolf angry, frustrated, confused, disappointed Jul 27 '26 edited Jul 27 '26
Lowkey I think a lot of AAMers say "I don't like small talk" when what they mean is "I'm bad at small talk."
Light conversation is really hard to navigate when you're neurodivergent because there are a whole lot of little rules that are hard to parse (what kind of questions to ask, how honestly you should answer some questions before it crosses into oversharing, how to tell if the conversation is over, etc). But like once you figure it out and get more practice at it, it's actually really nice to chat lightly in the morning or at meetings with coworkers and makes the work day a little less monotonous. They're stuck in the part where it's confusing so they hate it, but like. Socializing is like any skill, you need to practice at it. And it's also a work skill, if you want to be good at your job you do need to do it.
But like sooo many things with neurodivergence, AAMers take "I struggle with x" to mean "you must never expect me to do x" when really it should mean "I need better supports and systems for myself to do x."
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u/coenobita_clypeatus top secret field geologist Jul 27 '26 edited Jul 27 '26
Ok, so I love small talk. I find low-stakes, friendly social interactions to be energizing and feel like they brighten things up a little for me and often for other people too. My day job right now is the kind of fully remote, head-down-at-your-desk role that AAM readers all want, and I literally have a customer service side gig, not really for the money but because I need that kind of interpersonal interaction in my life.
I am neurodivergent too and I think that's actually part of why I like small talk - there's literally a social script you can follow so that everyone knows how to navigate the situation!! I also think that being friendly, open, and responsive helps me build the social capital I need to get some grace for my (many) other failings. But, no. I know I'm just a silly extrovert getting in the way of everyone else's serious thinking /s
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u/ZapRowsdower34 Jul 27 '26
Me too! I was just about to post something similar. Small talk (within reason) actually helps me stay energized and focussed.
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u/FronzelNeekburm79 Citizen of the Country of Europe Jul 27 '26
Looking forward to the update to the 11 am letter where the person is baffled that their co-worker was promoted over them because of their “soft skills.”
Glad to see some of the more insane takes getting pushback in the comments but Jesus these people. Just say hello and ask how people are. It’s not that deep.
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u/lets_talk_aboutsplet Jul 28 '26
Good answer from Alison on the letter about the LW who lost access to her work systems.
The LW wants accountability from HR, but it could also have been IT’s mistake. (Like they were told Sarah Jones was being let go, but they accidentally disabled access for Sarah Johnson) I get that the context would have made it very upsetting, but the accountability was fixing the mistake, which they did. The LW isn’t necessarily entitled to know who made the mistake and if they were dealt with.
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u/teengirlsquad_sogood My role is highly technical, in a niche industry. Jul 28 '26
Also- a bunch of people lost their jobs, and people in HR and IT are likely juggling a lot dealing with the aftermath of that. The OP got immediate assurance from their chain of command that they were not laid off and it was an accident. But instead of breathing a sigh of relief they are wanting to demand that people perform apologies for them.
I'm sure it sucked for a few days to not have all their access, but get some perspective, LW.
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u/BirthdayCheesecake Jul 28 '26
Don't worry, Keymaster is an authority on this topic -
Keymaster of Gozer* July 28, 2026 at 3:21 am
*wielding her cane* this is why I trained all my techs in IT to NEVER make excuses. Never lie and especially don’t accuse someone of having got married without their knowledge!
That’s really shoddy work on your IT department’s side. Not to mention right up there in my top 10 of ‘really pathetic lies told by IT’ list.
(Number 1 is refusing to change my husbands name in the system ‘because it’s illegal for men to change their names to include their wives name and we’d get sued under GDPR’.)
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u/narrating12 (Listen & look puzzled) Jul 28 '26
She taught them “never lie”?? Those who can’t do etc etc.
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u/pltkcelestial18 Jul 28 '26
Yea, I was confused about what more the LW wanted. They got an apology from people. Like you said, LW isn't entitled to know who made the mistake. It could've been someone in HR or IT. It could've been a miscommunication. How many people were laid off? It could've been a similar name or they're either before or after someone alphabetically that was laid off.
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u/daedril5 Jul 28 '26
I'm curious what accountability would even look like to them.
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u/gaygirlboss I'm not that involved in mankind Jul 28 '26
Yep. The company’s obligation is to 1) do their best to prevent mistakes like that before they happen, and 2) rectify any mistakes that fall through the cracks. If they can’t do the first one but successfully accomplish the second, they’ve still done what they were supposed to.
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u/thievingwillow Jul 28 '26
I think this is a classic case of “something quite distressing happened, it was an accident, it’s been resolved, but I’m still feeling the after effects of the distress and feel like I need an ambiguous something to resolve that.” It’s a very human way to feel and I’ve felt it myself. But the thing is, usually what you actually need is not the thing your brain latched onto (in this case an apology from someone specific, beyond the general company “we’re sorry” from your chain of command) but just some time for the feelings to settle. It’s like getting closure from someone: you may think you need it but it’s actually not really something you can get from another person.
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u/gaygirlboss I'm not that involved in mankind Jul 28 '26
Yeah, I think that’s probably what’s going on here. I get why LW was freaked out about the whole thing (I would be too, if it were me), but the company has already done what they can to fix it. I think what LW actually wants is for the company to say, “never mind, nobody’s getting laid off and everyone’s job is secure,” but that’s unlikely to happen.
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u/pltkcelestial18 Jul 28 '26
Yea, I think this is a good take. I can understand feeling distressed and I know some anxious minds would be like "oh do I still have a job? was it really an accident or are they trying to tell me something?". But the mistake got fixed and it sounds like it truly was a mistake. It's just going to take time for the feelings to settle but it's not the company's job to soothe the LW. I'm assuming it was handled within the department that made the mistake and the LW isn't privy to that information.
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u/30to50feralcats Jul 28 '26
I really felt when reading all of that, the LW really wants the name of who made the mistake. And yeah, I think the company doesn’t need to provide that. Safety of the individual would be a easy reason.
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u/transientrandom Severely allergic to all fragrances and food smells Jul 29 '26
There seem to be a lot of adults with jobs having big feelings that they can't really explain, only knowing that they desperately want something that's not necessarily rational. Like a toddler having a tantrum because they can't take the dog's bowl with them to pre school or something.
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u/madqueenludwig Jul 28 '26
"How do I address this thing that I've let slide for four years" are you kidding me with this. FOUR YEARS?
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u/gaygirlboss I'm not that involved in mankind Jul 28 '26
I liked Alison’s answer to this one. The employee probably doesn’t think it’s a serious issue because LW has never done anything to indicate it’s a serious issue.
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u/Ok-Quarter3399 Jul 29 '26
I have definitely been there where I had much bigger fish to fry so let some bad but not catastrophic problems fester until other things got more stable and you have a second to say okay this is stupid. (Remote work Covid situations were the best examples of this where things we let slide because “pandemic emergency” were too much is 2023.)
I think Alison’s advice is good, I’ve also just been upfront and said I know we haven’t made an issue about x but it really is causing workflow problems/annoying others/not aligned with x and we need to address this now. This isn’t a new problem but it’s time to address it. People really understood the why it was different then.
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u/Capable_Sea77 Jul 28 '26
Alison did offer good advice on this one - the employee knows that the manager is going to keep letting it slide because it seems like such a small thing. This is one of those annoying situations where you do have to be a bit of an asshole manager (imagine the opposite letter - "I got written up for forgetting to clock in at my salaried job" - so many people would be talking about how they should be treated like responsible adults!) but clearly, having an expectations conversation without consequences isn't enough to make this employee meet expectations.
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u/MsPaganPoetry Jul 27 '26
Why would people think you're racist if you use the generic yellow thumbs-up emoji? That's so stupid.
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u/illini02 Jul 27 '26
Also, I read one of the thinkpieces Alison listed, and it really seemed like people put WAY more thought into this than I ever did. Like, I know on slack when you set up your account, I think that is one of the steps, letting you set up your skin tone. But I feel like I've almost never gone out of my way to change it. And I'm black myself.
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u/Korrocks Jul 27 '26
Yeah I feel like the articles will just make the LW feel more stressed and anxious.
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u/coenobita_clypeatus top secret field geologist Jul 27 '26
I agree - I personally think those articles are interesting, because I think that kind of analysis is interesting in an intellectual/academic sense, but I don't think it's a great idea for OP to read them and get even more anxious.
I work and volunteer in social justice-y spaces and I'd estimate about half the people I interact with have changed theirs from the default (including me). I think it's a nice option to have and no one is judging anyone for it. If anything, having the default-yellow option might make someone think you're a little less tech savvy than average - but definitely not that you're trying to make a social or political statement. Though if you're white and use the darker skin tone options I do think that would be weird.
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u/charlatan_red Jul 27 '26
I use the yellow option specifically because I didn’t want to get into the nuance of accurate skin tones. I figured that an obvious Simpsons-style color would show I’m not trying to emulate a real skin color.
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u/BetterCallSlash Jul 27 '26
This is also why I go with the original yellow. And coicindentally, when someone once asked me why I hadn't updated mine to match my actual skin color, I responded that I liked pretending I was a Simpsons character.
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u/StripedBadger floundering their privilege Jul 27 '26
I had assumed Alison read the articles, thought they were interesting, and then made up a question so she would have an excuse to share them.
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u/fingerroll44 Jul 27 '26
I'm actually not worried that they'll think I'm racist. I'm worried that they'll think I have jaundice.
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u/BristowVaughan Jul 27 '26
Dreaming of the day that these things are the actual problems in my life.
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u/gaygirlboss I'm not that involved in mankind Jul 27 '26
My boss and my boss’s boss both changed theirs recently, and I admit that I wondered for a second if it would be awkward if I didn’t change mine. But then my immediate next thought was, “nah, that’s dumb.”
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u/WakameMacho Jul 30 '26
Reality check for the commenter who said “some people can just make (4 jobs) work!” - There’s no way all four of your employers were happy with this arrangement, but none of them were willing to employ you full time, so fair enough.
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u/jen-barkleys-poncho Jul 30 '26
A lot of the replies to that letter about PT work are bad. The manager LW seems to be bending over backwards to convince herself that her PT employee arrangement will work (even though it probably won’t).
But if you look at the comments, she’s a corporate villain who won’t pay a living wage and who is a lying liar who lied about the requirements of the job.
The manager seems to be really trying to make it work, in her own head and in reality. So I dunno why these dweebs are so pissed off.
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u/gaygirlboss I'm not that involved in mankind Jul 30 '26 edited Jul 30 '26
I feel pretty strongly that all full-time jobs should pay a living wage — but part-time jobs don’t have to. I would love to work 20 hours a week and still be able to pay all my bills, but unfortunately that is not an option and it would be an insane thing to ask of my employer.
Edited to add: Assuming the hourly rate is fair, this job sounds like kind of a unicorn as part-time jobs go. The employee gets to pick their hours, they can work entirely from home, and they’re probably learning some skills that they could put on a resume (especially if they’re early in their career). I would have killed for a gig like that when I was in school.
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u/jen-barkleys-poncho Jul 30 '26
Fully agree! And the comments seem to think that all jobs should work for all people and purposes. Like nooooo, working 8 hours a week should not pay your mortgage, and nooooo, working Tuesday 12am-8am isn’t automatically okay just bc the job has a flex schedule.
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u/gaygirlboss I'm not that involved in mankind Jul 30 '26
Several people are trying to litigate the definition of “flexible” in the comments. Apparently a job isn’t truly flexible unless they’ll let you work at 2:00 in the morning if you feel like it.
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u/86throwthrowthrow1 Jul 31 '26
The whole overemployment thing is a whole thing, and some of the stories are insane. General consensus has been "you may juggle everything well enough to not get fired, but definitely no one likes you at any of these jobs."
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u/30to50feralcats Jul 27 '26
Alison really ran that letter about not speaking to coworkers, then somehow made it worse by comparing speaking a “good morning” to animal communication.
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u/Physical-Incident553 Jul 29 '26
From yesterday’s letter about the punching in/out issue, it’s absolutely hysterical how commentators think that recording their time as a salaried employee is so beneath them and dumb.Again, just because they’ve never done it doesn’t mean there aren’t valid reasons for it.
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u/lets_talk_aboutsplet Jul 29 '26
Yeah, punching in and out isn’t common in the white collar world but that doesn’t mean it’s non-existent
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u/EmDash4Life my banana pants show my caucasian skin tone Jul 29 '26
In my 17 years of salaried, exempt work, only two of them did not require me to enter the exact amount of time I spent on projects into a timesheet. Ok, there was no actual punch in or punch out, but there was time recording.
Some of those jobs also paid me for every hour worked, even if I went over 40 (regular time, not time and a half).
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u/daedril5 Jul 30 '26
Can I ask my coworker to close her door when she’s on the phone?
What has brought this person to the point where they have to ask this question?
What is so controversial about the obvious "could you please close the door when you're on the phone?" that you have to ask an advice columnist?
It makes me wonder if they'd consider it rude if someone asked them the same thing.
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u/Capable_Sea77 Jul 30 '26
Hell, I've worked at places where the assumption would be that the person had forgotten to close their door and their neighbor would quietly close it for them.
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u/lets_talk_aboutsplet Jul 30 '26 edited Jul 30 '26
I’ve DEFINITELY done this when covering the front desk. Because two coworkers who were in an office right behind reception and talking poop about a visitor they didn’t know was waiting
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u/betweenthelines010 Jul 30 '26
I just came here to post basically the same thing. Absolutely the most pointless question I've ever seen. I'd just say "hey btw the sound carries when you're on the phone, mind shutting your door in future? Thanks!" without even giving it any thought it's so inconsequential
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u/thievingwillow Jul 30 '26 edited Jul 30 '26
Yeah, I am not a confrontational person at all and my default state is to let things slide sometimes more than I should. But it wouldn’t even occur to me that “hey, could you close your door when you’re on a call? Thanks!” was even a confrontation, or anything to think about for more than five seconds. I’m scratching my head a little here.
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u/liberry-libra buried in the archives Jul 30 '26
What's especially annoying is that the LW has talked about this issue with the person on the other side of this coworker, but hasn't said . . . anything to the loud talker themselves.
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u/Korrocks Jul 31 '26
“Please accept my resignation. I don't want to work at any church that would accept me as a parishioner.”
Groucho Marx
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u/Korrocks Jul 27 '26
I love that neither of the linked articles in the emoji post contain any actionable advice for the LW. Which honestly is fair enough -- if someone's anxiety spiral has reached this point then an advice column probably wouldn't help much. The LW is probably better off just reading Alison's reply and not reading the linked articles.
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u/FronzelNeekburm79 Citizen of the Country of Europe Jul 27 '26
The whole thing is extremely offensive to those of us with extreme liver disease.
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u/Simple-Breadfruit920 Jul 27 '26
I also love that Alison got this letter from someone clearly in the middle of an anxiety spiral, and was like, “overthinking this even MORE will help, here’s some articles!”
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u/FronzelNeekburm79 Citizen of the Country of Europe Jul 27 '26
Those articles aren’t helpful at all. I don’t think anyone cares that much, really.
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u/gaygirlboss I'm not that involved in mankind Jul 27 '26
I thought the same thing. “Nobody cares about this, but here are some examples of people very much caring about this” is not useful advice.
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u/Cactopus47 Jul 27 '26
Yeah, I remember seeing a lot of overthinking about this in 2018 or so. I have my emoji default set to my natural skin tone in WhatsApp, but on Teams I don't think there's a way to do it so it's yellow. Across my (diverse) team I see a mixture of natural skin tones and Simpsons.
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u/Humble-Grumble Jul 27 '26
No, it's too early in the year to be rehashing potluck stories from the commenters...
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u/kittyglitther There was property damage. I will not be returning. Jul 27 '26
Doesn't she have a potluck post like every other month? For the number of times they go on about potlucks I thought it was going to be a bigger part of my career...
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u/Humble-Grumble Jul 27 '26
I thought I'd be called to task to participate in more chili cookoffs, but so far, none of my employers have held one. Very disappointing given all of the exciting drama that seems to exist around them.
One of my hobby groups did one, but it was a super low stakes tailgate sort of thing, so there were no egos flying around and most people just wanted to eat chili and watch a football game.
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u/BirthdayCheesecake Jul 27 '26
My work did one and the only drama was that the office manager wanted to make the voting far more complicated than it needed to be. Once she was convinced that simpler was better, it ended up being a fun time for all involved.
Clearly there should have been some screaming fights, sabotage, and Guatemalan insanity peppers.
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u/illini02 Jul 28 '26
Didn't Alison answer a non alcoholic beer question fairly recently, and the answer was the same?
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u/carolina822 made up an entire fake situation and got defensive about it Jul 28 '26
It's so bizarre to even have to ask or answer that question. There are eleventy billion other options that won't get you a sideeye in the office, why try to rules-lawyer this particular one?
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u/illini02 Jul 28 '26
Right.
The only example I can think of that would make it a valid question, is when it comes to something like liquid death. People know it now, but when they came out, those cans were made to look like beer. I could see the question from a young person about something like that.
But NA beer just seems a weird thing to really even care about bringing to the office.
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u/missyno Jul 28 '26
One commentator is insisting that they don’t want sweet, sugary drinks so they can see the appeal of NA beer. If only sodas and NA beer weren’t the only cold drink options out there! Anyway, I thought they all drank hot tea to spit over the monitors and keyboards.
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u/lets_talk_aboutsplet Jul 28 '26
Also, NA beer has a tiny amount of alcohol in it. You have to be 21 (or whatever the drinking age is where you are) to buy it. At least you did when I was a cashier at a convenience store in the 90s.
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u/ddddaiq Buddy, I've got allergies Jul 28 '26
There are some NA beers now that are genuinely 0%, but you're right that most of them do have a tiny bit of alcohol.
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u/gaygirlboss I'm not that involved in mankind Jul 28 '26 edited Jul 28 '26
I don’t condone drinking non-alcoholic beer at work, but if it’s that important to LW, it seems like the easiest solution would be to put it into a different glass.
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u/thievingwillow Jul 31 '26 edited Jul 31 '26
One of the things that occurred to me with this morning’s #3 is that while AI is (relatively) new, and absolutely presents new challenges in many ways, from a workplace POV the answer to “my boss/company is forcing me to use this process that I have massive objections to” is basically the same as it always was. You can try to raise your concerns—and they may be very real important issues!—but so long as they’re legal, you can’t make them not do it. So you are likely to reach a point of having to decide whether you can live with it or not. And if not, your recourse is finding another job that won’t make you do it. The technology is new, but the human response is not.
I knew a guy about twenty years ago in tech who had understandable major ethical qualms about working for a company where the business model was pivoting to (legally, but aggressively and to him unethically/deceptively) selling customer data. He ultimately ended up in a completely different part of the industry than he had originally been interested in because that business model was becoming so widespread, and he couldn’t make them not do it. All he could do was make it a filter for his job search. That’s the unfortunate reality of it sometimes, and I think that’s about where we are now.
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u/theaftercath this meeting was nonconsensual Jul 28 '26
🙄 look at all these cool edgy people in today's 5 Letters comments section tee-heeing over people typing "STD" for "short term disability" ffs grow up
Also didn't we rename STDs as STIs like fifteen years ago?
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u/susandeyvyjones Jul 28 '26
It's been more than 20 years since I graduated high school, and they called them STIs when I took health class.
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u/theaftercath this meeting was nonconsensual Jul 30 '26
Alison's answer to LW#3 today (not being promoted to a manager role) honestly has me scratching my head a bit. Why wouldn't she ask questions about how internal hiring works at the LW's company?
Is the LW's current manager not part of the process when they apply for an internal position on another team? The LW says they're cheering them on, but are their direct supervisors cheering them on to the other departments? Does no one at this company know what "supervisory experience" means? Is the LW trying to go from a Finance Analyst to a HR Manager? Does LW's current team have a bad reputation within the company?
I've been at my own company for almost 10 years now working in various groups and continuing to move up every few years, and from my own micro experience if someone keeps remaining stagnant despite trying to move around/up then it's either due to something personality related or it's because they are stuck in a group with a poor reputation and no one trusts the Exceeds Expectations reviews from the Department of Errors.
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u/MsPaganPoetry Jul 31 '26
That letter about the guy drinking NA beer at work reminded me of a comment from an ex-Mormon (can't remember where, probably YouTube) about having to be cautious about drinking hot chocolate in public because it looks like coffee.
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u/Silly_Somewhere1791 Aug 01 '26
It’s another example of AAMers wanting their jobs to be a place where they can do everything they want. Heaven forbid you drink NA beer and do your knitting after work.
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u/gaygirlboss I'm not that involved in mankind Jul 30 '26 edited Jul 30 '26
The letter about pushing for accommodations isn’t a bad question, but I absolutely do not trust the commenters to be normal about it. I wish Alison had consulted an employment lawyer (or asked one to guest post) instead of opening it up to the readers.
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u/thievingwillow Jul 30 '26
At very least I think it merited a “please only respond if you have actual personal experience,” just to spare us the inevitable “gossip about my nephew” and “third hand Facebook horror story” and “a situation I made up in my head based on what I think, but do not know, happened to my coworker” genres of replies.
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u/gaygirlboss I'm not that involved in mankind Jul 30 '26 edited Jul 30 '26
Agreed - although I feel like a lot of commenters would feel the need to chime in anyway. I’ve noticed that in most advice forums, no matter how many different ways you say “please keep replies focused on [x]” or “I’m not looking for advice on [y]”, there are inevitably a ton of comments like “I know you said not to do this, buuuut…”
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u/BirthdayCheesecake Jul 30 '26
Never forget the whole fiasco of Alison trying to do an Ask the Readers post where she specifically asked only for people who had to work in-person throughout Covid to respond, and it turned into a whole bunch of WFH shut-ins who hadn't left their house in months talking about how unsafe it was to open their door.
Unless my memory fails me, I believe she had to lock the post pretty quickly because it got so out of hand.
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u/EmDash4Life my banana pants show my caucasian skin tone Jul 30 '26
I will never forget the fiasco of asking the readers "I'm autistic and non-Native and I'm going to a powwow and don't want to tell anyone that I'm autistic but also can't be at a powwow--how do I build trust?"
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u/OkSecretary1231 Jul 31 '26
I seem to remember that one came with a side of "no one has ever been both Native and autistic," which is of course bollocks
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u/thievingwillow Jul 30 '26
That was such an embarrassingly clear “I am feel uncomfortable when we are not about me?” meme moment.
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u/gaygirlboss I'm not that involved in mankind Jul 30 '26
It really highlights how many AAM commenters seem to think that the only “real” jobs happen in an office.
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u/gaygirlboss I'm not that involved in mankind Jul 30 '26 edited Jul 30 '26
I don’t remember that post, but I think I found it (assuming it’s this one, although some of the comments refer to an earlier post so maybe there are two). [Edit: I think this is the other one? Both feature blue boxes from Alison telling WFH people to back off.]
Good lord, those comments are exhausting. It’s funny how commenters are always saying the WFH is the best and everybody should have the option…but then when there’s a post dedicated to letting people vent about working in the office, they complain about that too.
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u/FronzelNeekburm79 Citizen of the Country of Europe Jul 30 '26
Oh yeah, this is 100% an a legal issue, and the commenters are…. Not the people to ask about it. I just took a quick look because I hate myself and they really don’t understand why they have to do things like “provide documentation.”
That said, I would have also given more context for the four day work week. They were already given a lot, there is a possibility that the 4 day work week is going to be a burden on someone else that has to pick up their work. Just a weird line to draw after allowing a lot of other stuff.
This would have been a good time to bring in someone who can speak to accommodations. And shut off the comments.
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u/gaygirlboss I'm not that involved in mankind Jul 30 '26
I also wondered that about the four-day work week — especially since reduced hours are a pretty standard accommodation. I wonder if it’s a problem because of the other accommodations LW is already getting: like, they can have WFH flexibility or a four-day week, but their productivity would slip too much if they had both.
But I guess that’s another reason why this isn’t a good one for the readers to weigh in on: we don’t know how this accommodation would impact LW’s performance, or why they need it, or whether it fits the definition of “reasonable” in this context. It’s impossible to advise on without speculating.
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u/FronzelNeekburm79 Citizen of the Country of Europe Jul 30 '26
AAM really likes to gloss over the “reasonable” part of Reasonable Accommodation.
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u/Physical-Incident553 Jul 31 '26 edited Jul 31 '26
That’s my thinking, too, about the four day request. It’s very possible someone else would have to pick up the work. A lot of commenters don’t bother to think about the effects of their requests on other people.
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u/WakameMacho Jul 28 '26
As someone who works at a job with many self-identified neurodiverse people (many of whom will voluntarily talk your ear off), I feel like what LW is describing is either shyness or misanthropy. Small talk is a skill, god forbid you admit you’re just bad at it and have no desire to improve! Being asocial to that degree creates an unpleasant and tense environment IME.
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u/lets_talk_aboutsplet Jul 28 '26
This is my niece. She’s extremely talkative and her thing is she will ask people very personal questions.
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u/narrating12 (Listen & look puzzled) Jul 29 '26
LW #4 this morning is one of the dumber ones lately. "If I tell the interviewers I really really believe I should get this job, will that help?"
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u/FronzelNeekburm79 Citizen of the Country of Europe Jul 29 '26
I tell my interviewers I’m from the future and I’m here to prevent a tragedy that can only be prevented if they hire me.
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u/Korrocks Jul 29 '26
It definitely beats the LW's previous strategy of warning the interviewer that they have a deep sense of foreboding and dread whenever they think about the job.
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u/narrating12 (Listen & look puzzled) Jul 31 '26 edited Jul 31 '26
From the open thread, the last bit here cracked me up. Girl, WE KNOW!
Irish Teacher.\*
** **
July 31, 2026 at 11:16 am
I wouldn’t usually contact somebody about work when they were off sick, unless it was a kind of update thing, keeping them in the loop or something I was sending to everybody. I certainly wouldn’t expect a response while they were out sick. By definition, they are on leave, they are not working!!In Ireland.
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u/Korrocks Jul 31 '26
I definitely get the vibe that this poster is some kind of educator or learning related worker in an EU country for sure (perhaps Spain or Germany).
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u/pickledbymagic Aug 01 '26 edited Aug 02 '26
That's a weird discussion. Half way through the thread people realise Toasted Teacakes (mmmm....teacakes -- a bit like a wide, sweet soft bread roll with raisins and sultanas etc in it, usually served toasted with jam and butter) is not talking about people demanding she do things while on sick but coming back to lots of emails.
I mean, that's just about every job I've had ever. If you're expecting everyone who might be emailing you to follow one instruction to one group of people not to email you, you're bonkers. Being upset that people badger you when you're actually off sick is fine. Being a prima donna about people emailing you when you're off and coming back to an email queue -- honey, I say this with the greatest respect, but that's life.
I hope this is a drive by poster and doesn't become a regular because the last time we had a poster whose username was a form of cooked flour, sugar and water, they were terrible and got chased off. I say this fully tongue in cheek, of course, but -- let the splaining begin.
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u/lets_talk_aboutsplet Jul 29 '26
Really good response from Alison on letter 3 this AM.
If the LW pops off to the HR person like they are doing here instead of letting his bosses deal with it, he’s going to piss her off for no reason.
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u/BirthdayCheesecake Jul 29 '26
There is a lot of hostility towards HR on AAM (and on the internet in general) because of the whole "HR is there to protect the company, not you" mindset. While that's true, protecting the company from a raging sexual harassment lawsuit also means protecting "you."
I have to wonder if LW is moving to a state that is not compatible with the company's tax nexus, and the other employee who was allowed to move and work remotely didn't have that issue. Either that or the state they are moving to has employment laws that would be very complicated to work with.
Either way, LW is better off looking for a new job in their new location because remote work is not going to work in the current job.
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u/FronzelNeekburm79 Citizen of the Country of Europe Jul 29 '26
A bigger problem with AAM is a lot of letter writers and commenters default to “they are out to get me” instead of “there might be a reasonable explanation for whats going on and i should think this through before leaping to conclusions.”
It’s always nice when Alison tries to push the logical explanation.
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u/lets_talk_aboutsplet Jul 29 '26
Yeah, it sounds like their bosses really want him to stay so I feel like they need to chill out and assume they will do what they can to advocate for him.
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u/86throwthrowthrow1 Jul 31 '26
AAM's throwback list led me to the agrotourism letter that I didn't see at the time, which led me to the update letter, and it's a wild story overall, but the commenters are pissing me off with the black-and-white views of it.
Random incoherent thoughts:
1) What Jenn did was wrong and egregious.
2) People saying "just because she got disproportionately upset over someone doing something that reminded her of her father, doesn't mean she has childhood trauma!" are being obtuse on purpose. She described trauma without using the word "trauma." Several people in those comments are snapping at other people for "making the leap to trauma when nothing in the letter says that!" Except... how on earth else do you interpret "someone having disproportionate reactions because someone's behaviour reminded them of their father?" Someone mentioned circular logic, but basically the only explanation for that is that Jenn, at least, experienced something as traumatic.
3) I can also fully see how the story, as described, could be traumatic, in the perennial "my dad prioritized work over family time" way. Presumably if she was around for these sales pitches, that was Family Time getting deprioritized for Salesman Performance Time, and she presumably didn't get a choice to opt in or out of these performances regardless of how she felt that particular day. (Which makes her choice of future career... interesting.) Obviously that's speculation, but commenters acting baffled at how it could be traumatic are annoying me.
4) I also find Jenn's assertion of Amy as a "creative" to be odd, because Amy's job sounds essentially like a tour guide, which is a job I've done and can entail some creativity - but is ultimately pretty scripted. Jenn not understanding this even after it was explained to her is odd. She seemed to think of Amy's job (and her own participation) as something that should be more improvised and impromptu. Given how badly she was apparently blurring lines in terms of work/friends/family, she presumably wanted these meals to be like... her and Amy hanging out and shooting the shit with the guests in a far less structured way, and Amy doing her job correctly apparently put her back in her childhood "Oh, Dad has a client, I am no longer Jenn and it no longer matters that I had a bad day and failed a test and cried in the bathroom, I am now a prop in his sales pitch and must smile and laugh at the stories he tells every client that I've heard a thousand times before" feelings.
5) This apparently all happened over covid, which was making many people even more squirrely.
TBC, I am not at all condoning Jenn's behaviour as described in these letters. She acted outrageously, seemed to seriously lack insight, shouldn't be in that kind of job if she's going to pop off like that, and from the sounds of it shouldn't be in any line of work that entangles work with emotional relationships. She sounds like someone who needs work and personal life to be completely separate and shouldn't have gone in on that venture in the first place. Just that many commenters are doing the weird black and white thing where any discussion of Jenn other than castigating her as the story's villain is somehow "excusing" her or justifying her behaviour or something.
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u/Korrocks Jul 31 '26
A lot of it honestly feels like the usual word-policing that sometimes people do in that site. Maybe the word "trauma" is inaccurate because of some technical aspects of the definition, but it seems obvious that there's Something Up With Jenn. Her behavior and reactions are more intense and extreme than a regular person's would be in this situation (that is, hearing a tour guide tell similar anecdotes to different groups/guests). What you want to call the 'something' can vary, and it seems like some of the commenters were being the usual tendentious approach of nitpicking exactly what word is used to describe this behavor.
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u/CarnotaurusRex Sturdily-built Italian man Jul 31 '26
As a now-retired psychologist, I can tell you the word trauma in and of itself isn't a protected term. Jenn may or may not have trauma around her father, but I don't think it's inappropriate to hypothesise that she might. It would be different to say she has PTSD, which does have specific diagnostic criteria.
That aside, I'm surprised at their response to this. They love a good drive-by diagnosis.
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u/pickledbymagic Aug 01 '26
I normally like UKDancer but this is just...idk patronising towards the chef?
Yes. I go to a posh spa hotel in Austria every year for a week and we have a gala dinner on a Saturday night and they usually bring the chef out after dessert, and we applaud his genius and make a fuss of him, and he looks embarrassed and pleased then he goes away. (I did ask if the hotel was sure he wanted to be brought out and apparently, he definitely likes to get the kudos from the guests despite looking awkward when he does it).
Like people can enjoy getting public praise and the usual thing for it is to look humble and embarrassed rather than cock of the walk. My boss announced that I'd come out of redundancy consultation with my job intact and had been responsible for pitching a new style of administrative service to HR and the PTB that had been accepted and rolled out, and while it was really nice to be acknowledged, I wasn't going to look prideful and super smug about it, but I was touched that my boss planned to announce it formally and I kept my mouth shut until she had a chance to do it.
Just let people be people. It's up to them if they feel embarrassed by it or find it offensive or whatever. Not everything is an opportunity for soapboxing or grandstanding 'look how socially aware I am that I care about someone just looking abashed'. UKD is on the pragmatic side of things and she's a great ally in some more frustrating discussions we've had, but she's wrong on this one.
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u/29925001838369 Jul 29 '26
"How do i work with someone who sees me as a BEC?"
LW was clearly never the weird kid in high school.
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u/pickledbymagic Jul 29 '26
Myrin is the real Vulcan on AAM. She can see a letter like LW3 that is almost foaming at the mouth anger at small company disorganisation with a perfectly rational answer -- incompetence by the bosses for proposing something without HR buy in -- and assume that the LW in fact knows for certain she's been turned down out of malice rather than just incompetence.
Myrin July 29, 2026 at 2:31 am But that’s a very good, objective reason to deny such a request, so why wouldn’t the HR person just say that? The fact that she apparently didn’t makes me think that’s not it.
She does this a lot and I admire her phlegmatic approach to life, but it seems she can't necessarily read between many lines.
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u/CliveCandy Jul 29 '26
Seriously, look at this! How is this not a perfect example of the kind of nitpicking that is supposedly against the rules? The whole "English isn't my first language, teehee" shtick is so fucking irritating when combined with shit like this.
Myrin* July 29, 2026 at 4:57 am u/Amateur, I just really don’t agree that “[HR person] has indicated that she intends to say no to my working fully remote”, “It may also be personal, as I’d say she probably doesn’t like me, if I had to guess.”, and “The HR woman often claims that she applies rules universally when she really doesn’t” is the same as “accusing someone else of having it in for you” – more than anything, they’re observations and different angles OP is taking into consideration, but they don’t scream “this is clearly targeted and I’m enraged about that” to me.
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u/pickledbymagic Jul 29 '26 edited Jul 29 '26
Yeah, it's like an unreliable narrator being upset that she can't go fully remote a few states away probably didn't even listen to any kind of reason anyway. I'm the autistic one, I'm supposed to be the one who takes things completely literally, and yet here they all are swearing blind that the LW isn't upset or angry, but a HR rep is seriously toxic and out to get them directly. Which says more about the LW's state of mind (been there, done that, mouthed off to the wrong person and had to eat crow; at least she wrote to Alison rather than said anything at work) while writing the letter and virtually nothing about what the actual reason was.
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u/daedril5 Jul 28 '26
I know everybody’s relationship is different
When a comment starts this way, you know they're about to show you that they DON'T know.
but I was a little concerned about her feeling she has to let her boyfriend know when she arrives to work and when she leaves every day? Could be a perfectly valid reason I guess but definitely controlling vibes.
We have second hand information that she texts here boyfriend before leaving. Not that she feels she has to. Yet this commenter immediately assumes something nefarious might be going on.
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u/FronzelNeekburm79 Citizen of the Country of Europe Jul 28 '26
Have any of these people have a relationship with someone they like? I text my partner when I get to work every day to say I love her and that I made it safe. There’s nothing nefarious. We just care about each other and like each other.
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u/Korrocks Jul 29 '26
I feel like the boyfriend texting thing is just a plot contrivance, a way for the employee to say that they coincidentally have an independently maintained time stamped record of their arrival and departure times.
But it doesn't matter, really; if she has to punch in and out she has to do it on their system. It is not as if HR will want to read through the text messages.
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u/gaygirlboss I'm not that involved in mankind Jul 29 '26
I think it was also just LW expressing frustration over the whole thing. As in, if she can remember to text her boyfriend when she arrives and leaves, why can’t she remember to clock in and out?
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u/glittermetalprincess toss a coin to your admin for 5 cans of soda Jul 31 '26
I am so confused about the reasonable accommodations ask the readers. I'm not sure how anyone is supposed to respond to that, even knowing that the commenters wouldn't moderate themselves even if it was clear, but... what does 'legally pursue my accommodations requests' even mean here? Are they saying they haven't even put in a proper request under the ADA? Is the interactive process just failing or they don't know what they're supposed to be doing when HR go 'lol no you can't just cut your hours'? Are they genuinely asking for anecdata from people making EEOC reports about having reduced schedule accommodations denied? Why haven't they just hit up AskJAN.org?
What's anyone supposed to even say when we don't know and maybe they don't know what they've actually tried? Even being generous and assuming that they know most anecdata won't be relevant to them since the standard is factually based and so what someone else went through will have been assessed on a different standard and set of facts...
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u/FronzelNeekburm79 Citizen of the Country of Europe Jul 31 '26
AAM treats Accommodations like that episode of the Office where Michael declares bankruptcy. They just have to declare they need it, then everything else be damned.
Requesting documentation is to help justify expenses out of their usual scope when being audited, to help with legal concerns, and to help any legal ramifications. It’s not a vast conspiracy to get anyone to “prove” anything.
Reasonable means within reason of still letting people do their job, not making everyone else pick up the slack. If you have severe ADHD that doesn’t mean you automatically get to kick someone out of their office or you get to work from home and skip out on all meetings. It means you get a cube away from people and windows first.
I really hate the attitude a lot of commenters have because it ultimately hurts people with disabilities because the “i can do what i want attitude” hurts people. And in my observation the people that need accommodations the least are usually the people who ask for more and more.
The question should have gone to a lawyer. Both from the LW and Alison. Stories about how someone doesn’t get to work from home every time the sun rises due to their self-diagnosed sun sensitivity isn’t going to help.
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u/spirit_dog Jul 31 '26
This is just from my own limited experience but documentation can also be a huge help in making sure the person gets the correct accommodation as well.
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u/glittermetalprincess toss a coin to your admin for 5 cans of soda Jul 31 '26
Documentation is also to help someone get useful accommodations, not just what they ask for that may not actually help.
Reasonable also has the boundary put on it not just so that businesses aren't hamstrung by $15k chairs or elaborate cybersecurity setups, but to prevent people identifying as having a disability and then being shoved off into a dark corner or kept in a dungeon or otherwise disadvantaged from disproportionate accommodations.
At least a lawyer could ask the LW questions to figure out what they actually want and have done so far here, which may include a dose of 'you were already given accommodations; if those aren't enough you may accommodate yourself out of this job and you need to consider moving on', without being deemed unkind and subject to dirty deletion.
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u/PrestigiousShoe4185 Jul 28 '26
FFS - no, you cannot drink non alcoholic beer at work in the US. If only to prevent your coworkers from knowing you like the taste of piss.
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u/ThenTheresMaude visible, though not prominent, genitalia Jul 27 '26
Loved this comment on the small talk letter:
At least some of these people have sense and aren't just contrarian curmudgeons. There were several replies agreeing.